downtown student protests - outcall disruptions

[Techman]

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/quebec-students-government-to-resume-talks-1

 

[lgna69xxx]

Tech, it would not surprise me if the government gives in to the protesters so they do not lose anymore local and tourist money with the festival season now under way. However, it could hurt the gov't much more down the road tho if they do cave.

 

[Merlot]

Hmmm,

Quote Originally Posted by Merlot View Post
THAT'S THE PROBLEM! Not all, but too many have been self-programmed by their biases to take sides BEFORE the specific circumstances developed or played out.

I can be swayed by the right arguments. Since I saw pictures of the students marching naked I’m more in their favor. Maybe if the Liberals would do the same… No, I don't think it would help them.

We should start our own group: Hobbyists fo Heducation.

When it comes to solutions...I vote "Boobies" too.

"It could hurt the gov't much more down the road tho if they do cave, however."

From what has been posted it doesn't look like the students are lessening their protests. Since the government has not been able to find a way to end the protests up to now isn't the choice between the embarrassment of so-called caving in or the economic damage of continuing the current situation? Wouldn't the best choice at this point be for the government to do what is better for the economy, even if it's embarrassing to them personally? And wouldn't the economic damage in lost money and jobs be more hurtful to the government???

anyone?

Merlot

 

[daydreamer41]

Yes, the government will give in to the students' blackmail. Make a big stink. Be civil disobedient, cause damage to property, disrupt traffic, cause economic hardship and they will get their way. Bad message to give students.

I sadly think that the gov't will come half way and offer a 7.5 percent raise in tuition for 5 years, instead of 15 percent for 5 years. And I am not sure if the students will accept those terms, because they come across as spoiled brats.

 

[Mod 11]

Alright people! Inhale by the nose, hold a few seconds and exhale by the mouth slooowly... Repeat as often as necessary...

I see some posters are reverting to name-calling and ridiculing/berating others when they are out of arguments... This in NOT the way to hold a DISCUSSION and you guys know it.

I won't mention names but I'm pretty certain those who are concerned know who they are...

I'm closing the thread for 30-45 minutes, till I'm done my MERB round for tonight. Hopefully this will allow people to clear-up their mind and cool down.

Thanks

EDIT: Thread reopened. Barely 20 minutes!

 

[lgna69xxx]

Back to the original question of this thread and according to Mike at Goodgirls, it is indeed affecting delivery times some nights, depending where the calls are going to and where the protesters routes are. So Yes it is causing delays.

My guess is that it's having none whatsoever.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Back to the original question of this thread and according to Mike at Goodgirls, it is indeed affecting delivery times some nights, depending where the calls are going to and where the protesters routes are. So Yes it is causing delays.

Yep, the agencies are delivering 90 minutes late instead of the usual 60.

 

[gugu]

I would see them as pussies.

Well, EB, I doubt they will settle at the half way point (that was my personal view to call it a good settlement). But one thing is clear in my mind, the government will have to lower its expectations. So I guess you'll call them pussies anyway. It is either that or the student movement will gain momentum.

 

[daydreamer41]

Well, gugu, the government can shut down the schools next semester and save the taxpayers money. The students would be only hurting themselves.

About the protests, the government can arrest the students just like the Occupy crowd. The Occupy crowd is not a problem any more, because the municipal governments around the US put their foot down and would not tolerate disruptions. The Occupy crowd couldn't shut down the Brooklyn bridge. They couldn't do a lot of disruptions that they planned.

Bottom line is the Montreal government is already behaving like pussies. The Government could and should end the protests, just like the cities in the US with the Occupy crowd, whenever the students disrupt the business of people in the city.

 

[Siocnarf]

When it comes to solutions...I vote "Boobies" too.

I also think boobies would be the perfect compromise, but people would argue even more. I think we can all agree that two per woman is the optimal ratio, but do they need to be natural? Should we tolerate rebuilt? Big or small nipples? Don’t even get us started on cup size!

Yep, the agencies are delivering 90 minutes late instead of the usual 60.

Ouch! That's a 50% increase!!!

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

And now God is with the students. This is even more significant in that this church, with its 2,500,000 adherents is an English speaking faith.

United Church takes students’ side in protests
MONTREAL - Representatives of Canada’s largest Protestant denomination added their voices Sunday to a growing number of social justice groups denouncing the Charest government’s special law aimed at bringing an end to months of student unrest.

About 300 delegates attending the Montreal and Ottawa Conference of the United Church of Canada adopted a motion calling for the law to be annulled, saying that rather than restore peace and order, it has “thrown oil on the flames.”

The motion denounced violence by “a minority of protesters and some police” and called for a negotiated settlement. It called on both parties in the dispute to “approach the search for a negotiated settlement in the spirit of flexibility and compromise.”

As the motion passed, the Quebec government and three main student associations – CLASSE, FECQ and FEUQ – announced a return to the negotiating table Monday at 2 p.m. Negotiations this month produced a tentative agreement, which was then overwhelmingly rejected by students.

The United Church regional body is the latest voice of opposition in a growing list against Bill 78, passed May 18 in an attempt to quell a student strike – in its 16th week – that has sparked nightly student protests against planned tuition hikes. Amnesty International, the Quebec Bar Association, the Anglican bishop of Quebec, dozens of unions and PEN Canada are among those critical of the law they say violates rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly.

“In our sacred scriptures we as Christians see Jesus riding on a donkey into Jerusalem, surrounded by his faith community expressing their beliefs and he did not have to give eight hours’ notice to the Romans,” said St. James United Church delegate Ryan Fea, referring to the law’s requirement that organizers of a march give police at least eight hours of notice about a demonstration and provide their itinerary. “He was making a very strong political statement that wasn’t quelled or quashed by his government.”

The student at United Theological College, which is affiliated with McGill University, said delegates have asked the church’s national body, the General Council, to accept the motion at their annual general meeting in August.

“I don’t think they’ll vote against something that supports peaceful assembly and justice,” said Fea, 36.

Rev. Diane Rollert, minister at the Unitarian Church of Montreal, said she supported the United Church motion passed Sunday and asked her congregational board to do the same.

“We shape clay into a pot, but it’s the emptiness inside that holds whatever we want,” she said, quoting the ancient Chinese text Tao Te Ching as a way to sum up the crisis. “The anger and frustration is the clay in response to a government that’s built on cronyism and has lost sight of the vision of the principles of the Quiet Revolution.

“The question is not how you end this, but how you channel the energy, how you fill the bowl.

“I pray that energy will be channelled in a positive way.”

Rollert has asked members of her congregation, who are wearing range of colours, to come up with solutions based on the seven Unitarian Universalist principles, which include striving for a world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all.

Dennis Drainville, the Anglican bishop of Quebec, also raised his voice against the law at a demonstration in Quebec City May 24.

“I believe that the Gospel of Jesus Christ calls all Christians to speak truth to those in power,” Drainville wrote in his blog, where he recounted the event. “This is especially important when power is being used as a weapon by those in authority.

“No citizen should be arrested for participating in a peaceful and non-violent march protesting an issue that is, in their view, highly important to them and to their community. This abuse of power must stop.”

The United Church motion was proposed by the Camino de Emaus, a Latin American United Church on Ste. Catherine St. E., that has many members from countries with repressive governments.

At first, said Helga Ximena Ovando, the church supported the students but wasn’t ready to march on the street with them.

“But when this law was passed and people were being arrested and pepper-sprayed, it was too much and we had to speak out,” the 50-year-old native of Chile said. “As Christians, we had to stand up for justice.”

She said many members of the congregation joined in the May 22 march, which drew a huge crowd that included hundreds from outside the student movement.

Students, she said, were surprised to see a church banner because there is such a negative feeling toward the institution in the province.

“People were surprised, and poked their friends, saying, ‘Hey look at them,’ ” she said. “Then people were coming up to talk to us, they wanted their pictures taken with us, and one person even mocked us until his friend told him not to.

“They were happy to see the church standing with them because they didn’t always agree with the (church) models they’ve had before.”

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Here's a website devoted to translating the French coverage of the current political action in Quebec into English, providing a counterpoint to the extremely biased reporting coming out of the English press. As you read the articles, you'll find that the current actions have the support of the vast majority of Quebec's people, that while there is violence, it is being perpetrated by a handful of the hundreds of thousands of people taking part nightly in the peaceful events.

http://www.quebecprotest.com/

An Open Letter to the Mainstream English Media:

Thank you; you are a little late to the party, and you are still missing the mark a lot of the time, but in the past few days, you have published some not entirely terrible articles and op-eds about what’s happening in Quebec right now. Welcome to our movement.

Some of you have even started mentioning that when people are rounded up and arrested each night, they aren’t all criminals or rioters. Some of you have admitted that perhaps limiting our freedom of speech and assembly is going a little bit too far. Some of you are no longer publishing lies about the popular support that you seemed to think our government had. Not all of you, mind you, but some of you are waking up.

That said, here is what I have not seen you publish yet: stories about joy; about togetherness; about collaboration; about solidarity. You write about our anger, and yes, we are angry. We are angry at our government, at our police and at you. But none of you are succeeding in conveying what it feels like when you walk down the streets of Montreal right now, which is, for me at least, an overwhelming sense of joy and togetherness.

News coverage of Quebec almost always focuses on division: English vs. French; Quebec-born vs. immigrant; etc. This is the narrative that has shaped how people see us as a province, whether or not it is fair. But this is not what I feel right now when I walk down the street. At 8pm, I rush out of the house with a saucepan and a ladle, and as I walk to meet my fellow protesters, I hear people emerge from their balconies and the music starts. If you do not live here, I wish I could properly convey to you what it feels like; the above video is a start. It is magic. It starts quietly, a suggestion here and there, and it builds. Everybody on the street begins to smile. I get there, and we all—young and old, children and students and couples and retirees and workers and weird misfits and dogs and, well, neighbours—we all grin the widest grins you have ever seen while dancing around and making as much noise as possible. We are almost ecstatic with the joy of letting loose like this, of voicing our resistance to a government that seeks to silence us, and of being together like this.

I have lived in my neighbourhood for five years now, and this is the most I have ever felt a part of the community; the lasting impact that these protests will have on how people relate to each other in the city is deep and incredible. I was born and raised in Montreal, and I have always loved this city, I have always told people that it is the best city in the world, but I have truly never loved it as much as I do right now.

The first night that I went to a casseroles (pots and pans) demonstration, at the centre of the action—little children ecstatically blowing whistles, a young couple handing out extra pots and pans to passers-by, a yoga teacher who paused his class to have everyone join—I saw a bemused couple, banging away, but seemingly confused about something. When we finished, they asked me, “how did you find us?” I replied that I had checked the map that had been posted online of rendez-vous spots, and theirs was the nearest to my house. “Last night we were all alone,” they told me. They had no idea it had been advertized online. This is what our revolution looks like: someone had clearly ridden around our neighbourhood, figured out where people were protesting, and marked them for the rest of us. This is a revolution of collaboration. Of solidarity.

The next night the crowd had doubled. Tonight we will be even more.

I come home from these protests euphoric. The first night I returned, I sat down on my couch and I burst into tears, as the act of resisting, loudly, with my neighbours, so joyfully, had released so much tension that I had been carrying around with me, fearing our government, fearing arrest, fearing for the future. I felt lighter. Every night, I exchange stories with friends online and find out what happened in their neighbourhoods. These are the kinds of things we say to each other: “if I loved my city any more right now, my heart would burst.” We use the word “love” a whole lot. We feel empowered. We feel connected. We feel like we are going to win.

Why don’t you write about this? This incredible feeling? Another example I can give you is this very blog. Myself and a few friends began it as a way of disseminating information in English about what was happening here in Quebec, and within hours, literally hours, volunteers were writing me offering to help. Every day, people submit translations to me anonymously; I have no idea who they are, they just want to do something. They come from everywhere. They translate what they think is important to get out there into the world. People email me corrections, too. They email me advice. They email me encouragement. This blog runs on solidarity and utter human kindness.

This is what Quebec looks like right now. Every night is teargas and riot cops, but it is also joy, laughter, kindness, togetherness, and beautiful music. Our hearts are bursting. We are so proud of each other; of the spirit of Quebec and its people; of our ability to resist, and our ability to collaborate.

Why aren’t you writing about this? Does joy not sell as well as violence? Does collaboration not sell as well as confrontation? You can have your cynicism; our revolution is sincere.

Sincerely,

The Administrator of Translating the printemps érable.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

You want to understand what's going on here? You want to stop reacting in knee jerk fashion to a popular movement about which you know absolutely nothing? Here's a good place to start: http://www.quebecprotest.com/101 http://www.quebecprotest.com/post/23624301707/a-primer-on-the-protests-in-quebec-this-video-is

And why is it that all the opposition expressed in this thread seems to be coming from a handful of Americans and a guy from Ontario? (And, of course, Techman, who has made it quite clear over the years that he loathes all things French.)

 

[daydreamer41]

Rumps, Rumps, Rumps. Did you watch the video? It is entitled "Red Square Revolt". Red Square has Communist connotations, although you wouldn't admit to that.

I heard the phrases: "Anti-Capitalism", "Anti-Banks", "Free Education", "Anarchists". One guy interviewed represented the Communist-Liberty party. What does all of this have to do with protesting tuition hikes?

It sounded like a bunch of Occupiers getting together to bash everything about Capitalism, not a tuition hike.

About Bill 78. It was passed by the Liberal government of Quebec. It involves not allowing 2 things:

Students can't protest within 50 m of a University building.

Protests of more than 50 people without the permission of police.

New York City and many cities have #2 as law.

#1 is a good idea to protect the students who want to get an Education and are in classes or studying.

So, I've seen the video. What's the complexity of this non-sense, Rumps? I've think I know as much as I will ever know.

The people who you support are anarchists. They want your Escorting money so they can pay for their Education. Why aren't you sending it to them, Rumps? You evil capitalist, Rumps.

 

[joelcairo]

A history making thread: the first time that I have ever agreed with Doc, Tech and Iggy all at the same time.

 

[daydreamer41]

Then you agree with me also, joelcario.

 

[EagerBeaver]

A history making thread: the first time that I have ever agreed with Doc, Tech and Iggy all at the same time.

Then it must mean that they are right.

 

[gugu]

Here's a website devoted to translating the French coverage...

Very nice to have Michel Seymour contribution translated: http://www.quebecprotest.com/post/23928591156/tuition-hikes-john-rawls-against-the-concept-of-the.

 

[daydreamer41]

I read Michel Seymour's article featuring deceased Professor John Rawls and his philosophy of how colleges should be, according to Rawls.

Rawls, it seems was protesting against the commercialization of places of higher education. Rawls thought that professors should be free to study what they please and students should be free of monetary concerns. Both the author and his subject are against the corporation being involved in higher education.

They were against having Professors being viewed as employees, researching as they seem fit, without the input of corporations or having funding from corporations.

But who will pay for this Utopian view? In the Real world, you apply for a job, the person who hires you and pays your check, decides on what you will work on. Correct?

The author was against seeing the student as the customer or consumer. But aren't the students really the customers? Isn't it the responsibility of the schools to teach the prepare the students for the corporate world, the business world, and the real world, wherever that may be?

It depends on the field of study, but if corporations are to hire students, they want them prepared. Corporations are not the only employers, granted.

So the professors want to be free spirits. They can forgo their cushy $150,000 year jobs with tenure, and apply for grants. But they won't. And surprise, the giver of the grants will want control of the study, or why else would they give out money?

I think both the author's and subject's views are Utopian. The purpose of an Education is to prepare the students for the world before them so they too can become productive citizens in the Real world. I think both of them lose this perspective.

On another note, I do agree that the advertising of institutions is counter-productive. The institution should develop a good reputation in a particular field. But it's up to students to get references and do research on the particular schools, and not pay attention to mindless advertising.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

But who will pay for this Utopian view?

Quite simple. In a civilized society, the people/state recognize that it is society's responsibility to insure the health of the people and to educate the population. A civilized society recognizes the value of an educated people.

In a plutocracy, such as the USA, the government exists for the benefit of the wealthy, its primary purpose protecting property rather than the well-being of the population as a whole. It's a simple question of priority.

The money spent propping up the military-industrial complex, spent subsidizing the oil industry, spent subsidizing the exportation of jobs could more than cover the cost of educating the population.