I am hearing the same thing from American friends of mine whose high school children are looking at both McGill and American colleges and universities. I have actually had some people call me and ask me what I know about Montreal because their kid is interested in McGill and the price seems right. But even McGill isn't free. It's just comparatively cheap, if stacked against the Ivy league schools, MIT, Harvard, etc. Even a McGill education is probably going to require the taking out of loans that have to be paid back. And no matter how quickly they get paid back, work has to be done to make the money to pay them back. It's pressure no matter what field you go into.
downtown student protests - outcall disruptions
- Thread starter freedom3
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I am hearing the same thing from American friends of mine whose high school children are looking at both McGill and American colleges and universities. I have actually had some people call me and ask me what I know about Montreal because their kid is interested in McGill and the price seems right. But even McGill isn't free. It's just comparatively cheap, if stacked against the Ivy league schools, MIT, Harvard, etc. Even a McGill education is probably going to require the taking out of loans that have to be paid back. And no matter how quickly they get paid back, work has to be done to make the money to pay them back. It's pressure no matter what field you go into.
Hey Boys,
Techman, what is actually in the Bill may no be as oppressive as the students say, but no matter what the real restrictions are or how rational anyone says the Bill might be, it's the obvious effect on propelling this protest and the socioeconomic consequences that matter. How broad would the protest be and how much economic loss would the area be facing if not for the reaction to the Bill.
"The Fox Noise Ambassador to Merb" conveniently forgot that it is also a "Lib'rel" government that is raising tuition.
Though I acknowledge not knowing the whole situation, which is only logical and more sensible than those who think they do, what is the merit of picking a side when one refuses to understand both?????????? Do you not see that many picking sides have expressed knee-jerk, self-jaded, fear-mongering reactions based on ignorant stereotypes and a clear lack of comprehensive understanding...most sadly often on purpose. The best thing anyone could say of me on this matter is he "tries his best to see both sides". I take great pride in that. Taking sides for too many is often about unwillingness to understand, irrational personal bias, and a lazy habit of over-simplification.
BTW...the Yankees SUCK...and the Leafs STINK. I hope you enjoyed this decisiveness.
:thumb:
I support a lot of your views on this issue, but you haven't seemed willing to acknowledge that the current situation was pushed this far by the fuel of government actions in concert with student counter-reactions to it. Though you for one have made a very good case against the protests, we all know there is also a Separatist phobia that is at least a small part of your reaction.
That may be a little strong, but it is has been strange to see one oppose the views of those from his own heritage so persistently.
This is pretty unfair considering you are a comparative extreme newbie next to a local lifer with the understanding capabilities that goes with being 100% fluent in both languages...whatever his biases may be.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM! Not all, but too many have been self-programmed by their biases to take sides BEFORE the specific circumstances developed or played out. Their positions were predisposed and the mentality was not to observe and learn, but to take a side and attack the other regardless of any merits. Again I thank Techman for saying I'm not one of those.
A despicable act of abuse imposing on the free choice of others not to join the protest. However, though I'm not sure whether this came before the passage of Bill 78 or after, as heinous as acts like this are, they are very successful when they cause the government to play into their hands by motivating the government over-react with Bills that also impinge on civil rights.
Cheers,
Merlot
Techman, what is actually in the Bill may no be as oppressive as the students say, but no matter what the real restrictions are or how rational anyone says the Bill might be, it's the obvious effect on propelling this protest and the socioeconomic consequences that matter. How broad would the protest be and how much economic loss would the area be facing if not for the reaction to the Bill.
"The Fox Noise Ambassador to Merb" conveniently forgot that it is also a "Lib'rel" government that is raising tuition.
Though I acknowledge not knowing the whole situation, which is only logical and more sensible than those who think they do, what is the merit of picking a side when one refuses to understand both?????????? Do you not see that many picking sides have expressed knee-jerk, self-jaded, fear-mongering reactions based on ignorant stereotypes and a clear lack of comprehensive understanding...most sadly often on purpose. The best thing anyone could say of me on this matter is he "tries his best to see both sides". I take great pride in that. Taking sides for too many is often about unwillingness to understand, irrational personal bias, and a lazy habit of over-simplification.
BTW...the Yankees SUCK...and the Leafs STINK. I hope you enjoyed this decisiveness.
:thumb:I support a lot of your views on this issue, but you haven't seemed willing to acknowledge that the current situation was pushed this far by the fuel of government actions in concert with student counter-reactions to it. Though you for one have made a very good case against the protests, we all know there is also a Separatist phobia that is at least a small part of your reaction.
That may be a little strong, but it is has been strange to see one oppose the views of those from his own heritage so persistently.
This is pretty unfair considering you are a comparative extreme newbie next to a local lifer with the understanding capabilities that goes with being 100% fluent in both languages...whatever his biases may be.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM! Not all, but too many have been self-programmed by their biases to take sides BEFORE the specific circumstances developed or played out. Their positions were predisposed and the mentality was not to observe and learn, but to take a side and attack the other regardless of any merits. Again I thank Techman for saying I'm not one of those.
A despicable act of abuse imposing on the free choice of others not to join the protest. However, though I'm not sure whether this came before the passage of Bill 78 or after, as heinous as acts like this are, they are very successful when they cause the government to play into their hands by motivating the government over-react with Bills that also impinge on civil rights.
Cheers,
Merlot
I can be swayed by the right arguments. Since I saw pictures of the students marching naked I’m more in their favor. Maybe if the Liberals would do the same… No, I don't think it would help them.
I’m in favor of keeping education very accessible, but I don’t want people to take advantage of it. No one should have to say “I wanted to go to college but could not afford it”. But I don’t like people spending their whole lives switching programs and not taking it seriously. (On the other hand, we give healthcare to anyone who’s hurt, even to those who don’t take good care of their health.)
Too bad the rest of the province can’t profit from our discussion. We should start our own group: Hobbyists fo Heducation.
Hey Merlot,
Do you have a patent on that respond to everybody who posts in the thread Post?
If you don't, you ought to. You won't get any royalties off of it, because no one else has that much time to address everything that anyone says about anything.
Do you have a patent on that respond to everybody who posts in the thread Post?
If you don't, you ought to. You won't get any royalties off of it, because no one else has that much time to address everything that anyone says about anything.
You've got some points that I agree but hey, believe me, if a province should take an education model it should not be the US. I'm surprised that you have not heard of University of Amsterdam or Copenhagen. These are fantastic schools.
So what would you propose, Merlot? That the authorities allow the protestors to go wherever they want, whenever they want and do whatever they want? Two were arrested last night for assaulting a police HORSE! Maybe the police should just be pulled off the streets completely and just send in the cleanup crews in the morning? I think the police have shown great restraint so far.
As for my heritage, I am very proud of it but it doesn't include any separatists. Saying I am against my heritage is like saying that a German is going against his heritage because he spoke out against Nazis, or that an American is against his heritage because he is against slavery. You don't base an entire culture or history on the actions of a few.
By the way, rumples, the rock throwing on the Ville Marie expressway was well reported. It happened in the early days of the protest along with the bricks being thrown on the Metro tracks. All student groups denied that students were involved as to be expected. They made the same denials regarding the smoke bombs in the Metro also. All totally innocent actions I'm sure, in your view. Molotov cocktails have been reported in the news on a number of occasions. I suggest you read a little more.
As for my heritage, I am very proud of it but it doesn't include any separatists. Saying I am against my heritage is like saying that a German is going against his heritage because he spoke out against Nazis, or that an American is against his heritage because he is against slavery. You don't base an entire culture or history on the actions of a few.
By the way, rumples, the rock throwing on the Ville Marie expressway was well reported. It happened in the early days of the protest along with the bricks being thrown on the Metro tracks. All student groups denied that students were involved as to be expected. They made the same denials regarding the smoke bombs in the Metro also. All totally innocent actions I'm sure, in your view. Molotov cocktails have been reported in the news on a number of occasions. I suggest you read a little more.
When you go over the top like this you become the target of your own anti-discussion arguments. Win a weekend in Monte Carlo by showing me where I said any of this.
I see thinking offends you. Not surprised since your only possible responses are...communist, liberal, hippie....and your syntax SUCKS!
I go over the top when I see posts by people complaining about everything but they can't offer any solutions. It's damn easy to complain about things but not so easy to provide solutions. Hindsite is 20/20 as they say and it's real easy to pick apart other people's decisions. "Maybe if" are the two most useless words in the English language.
BUT, it WAS definately the students who marched into and disrupted classes against those students who want to learn and get an education, and IMHO, thats as bad or worse than what you pointed out below.
Really Merlot?
You don't have the attention span to read my response other than when I use the word communist, liberal or hippie. In fact, you scan for those words.
Your responses are anything but thinking. Most of the time they are cheap shots:
Hey Boys,
"The Fox Noise Ambassador to Merb" conveniently forgot that it is also a "Lib'rel" government that is raising tuition.
BTW...the Yankees SUCK...and the Leafs STINK. I hope you enjoyed this decisiveness.
I support a lot of your views on this issue, but you haven't seemed willing to acknowledge that the current situation was pushed this far by the fuel of government actions in concert with student counter-reactions to it. Though you for one have made a very good case against the protests, we all know there is also a Separatist phobia that is at least a small part of your reaction.
That may be a little strong, but it is has been strange to see one oppose the views of those from his own heritage so persistently.
This is pretty unfair considering you are a comparative extreme newbie next to a local lifer with the understanding capabilities that goes with being 100% fluent in both languages...whatever his biases may be.
Cheers,
Merlot
Hmmm,
Yet you take the time to be totally useless by saying nothing on subject.
"In fact, you scan for those words."- DD41
No, you're just worthless to read.
Techman, I've already said that in view of the bargain the students are getting compared to education costs elsewhere, even with the proposed raise in rates, the costs seem fairly reasonable. So the basic inference is the protests aren't justified.
But anyone who doesn't understand the distress of seeing rate rise 75% in 5 years together with the infringement on rights of Bill 78...isn't trying.
Solution: government withdraws the Bill, students get more rational about costs IF the size of the tuition hikes are really justified. The students are only over-reacting if the costs aren't justified.
Now if you can post anything in French or English, given your native born expertise on language, culture, and social attitudes, and knowledge of events,...that has been published where there is any evidence that the hikes are justified (apart from the general cheapness of education in the region) you will have made you point perfectly. I can't recall ever seeing a post accounting for how the educational expenses have made the tuition hikes necessary. EVIDENCE S'IL VOUS PLAIT.
I have already said in post 202 that "I support a lot of your views on this issue", except that you seem to deny the government's culpability in exasperating the issue, which is the only point we really seem to disagree on.
Cheers,
Merlot
Yet you take the time to be totally useless by saying nothing on subject.
"In fact, you scan for those words."- DD41
No, you're just worthless to read.
Techman, I've already said that in view of the bargain the students are getting compared to education costs elsewhere, even with the proposed raise in rates, the costs seem fairly reasonable. So the basic inference is the protests aren't justified.
But anyone who doesn't understand the distress of seeing rate rise 75% in 5 years together with the infringement on rights of Bill 78...isn't trying.
Solution: government withdraws the Bill, students get more rational about costs IF the size of the tuition hikes are really justified. The students are only over-reacting if the costs aren't justified.
Now if you can post anything in French or English, given your native born expertise on language, culture, and social attitudes, and knowledge of events,...that has been published where there is any evidence that the hikes are justified (apart from the general cheapness of education in the region) you will have made you point perfectly. I can't recall ever seeing a post accounting for how the educational expenses have made the tuition hikes necessary. EVIDENCE S'IL VOUS PLAIT.
I have already said in post 202 that "I support a lot of your views on this issue", except that you seem to deny the government's culpability in exasperating the issue, which is the only point we really seem to disagree on.
Cheers,
Merlot
Tomorrow is the big day: students and the government will start negociations. The cegep and university student federation have announced they will accept to unfreeze the tuition. If the government refuses to compromise on the increase, we are in for troubles. It is quite clear that the solution lies between the present tuition fees and the government announcement. I think half way between the two would be a good settlement. One unknown factor is the CLASSE who represent half the student on strike. Their movement will continue anyway on other grounds.
I predict Charest will not be candidate in the next election, letting Bachand run the show.
I predict Charest will not be candidate in the next election, letting Bachand run the show.
You may be onto something here gugu..... if this works tomorrow, and they stop the protesting and come to a solution, we ALL can and should start ahead with protests against gas prices, milk, cheese, beer, sp fees, strippers vip costs, car prices, jazz fest pricing, just for laughs increase in prices, pit pass prices for the grand prix, the prices at Ogilvy's, the cost of a happy meal at mickey d's. the difference between a $40 upcharge for cimws versus a $50 charge, hotel rates, habs tickets, Al's tickets, the cost from a small to a large smoked meat poutine? Sound good?
What are you saying Merlot? I'm worthless to read me? Why would I read me? I know what I have wrote. :lol:
What do you mean by the distress of anyone who doesn't understand the distress of a 75 percent increase over 5 years? You think it has never happened before?
Merlot, when I was a freshmen in College, the tuition was $1,500 per year. When I left, it was $3,000 per year. It increased 100 percent. There were no protests in the streets.
And guess what? Jimmy Carter was President at the time. Everything went up when he was President. Remember those days, Merlot?
I agree lgna. Just protest everything every time the price of something goes up.
Why not? I mean you can not buy something if the price is too high. But that is too simple for complex situations like this. I mean none of us understands why they are protesting.
So let's protest everything from Agency prices, driver's fees, etc. Let's get out there and wear MERB T-shirts and let the world know. You think the agencies will listen? You think anyone will understand us? Nah, it's too complex.
Why not? I mean you can not buy something if the price is too high. But that is too simple for complex situations like this. I mean none of us understands why they are protesting.
So let's protest everything from Agency prices, driver's fees, etc. Let's get out there and wear MERB T-shirts and let the world know. You think the agencies will listen? You think anyone will understand us? Nah, it's too complex.
so you're bored and tired with yourself. I understand perfectly. :lol: :thumb:
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