Gilles Duceppe

[Fred Zed]

Without doubt, I think Duceppe put up an impressive perfomance in last night's debate. I can also fully understand his desire to punish the Liberals.
That said, isn't a vote for the Bloc indirectly a vote for Harper ? ( who in my opinion does not really care for Quebec as much as Martin does. )

Btw I am not a shill for the Liberal Party in case there is a misunderstanding

 

[steak]

Duceppe is the more experienced player in those debates, plus he certainly is the quickest thinker when it is time for a quick smart and burning remark.

I don't pretend to be an expert a vote for the Bloc is not automatically a vote for the Conservatives. It is more a vote to keep in minority government. This election is so pointless as nothing will change afterwards. I just hope that we will be able to get rid of Lapierre, Frulla, Dion and Petigrew.

We are stuck with those thiefs for a long time unless some real alternative across Canada arise. Of course this is an obvious reality and it's been debated everywhere.

 

[Techman]

Duceppe's main attack is still the sponsorship scandle. I wish that someone would point out that it was dishonest Quebec companies that ripped off the Canadian taxpayers. Not all the money that was stolen was returned to the Liberal party, very little of it was. Most of it went into the pockets of Quebec businessmen. No matter what anyone thinks, if the separatist threat was not always hanging over our heads there would have been no need for a sponsorship program or the scandle that followed. Let's put the blame for that where it rightfully belongs.

 

[steak]

Of course businessmen were crooks and of course they are to blame but not blaming the Liberal Party as well is to close your eyes on the obvious. Charles Guite who was in the direction of the party was very clear about giving contracts to companies that were giving money to the party without proper bids from other places. I would have to dig deep in my memory of the Gomery Commission to remember perfectly but was there also another member of the Liberal organization that threathen the life of Brault?

If breaking democraty and honesty was the only way Jean Chretien and his crew (Boudrias, Guite, Gagliano, Coderre..) thought to face the separatist movement, then we are pretty close to faschism. I agree that the busnismen did the big part of the scam but it was encouraged by politicians who alse garnered their pockets hypocritically basing their action on the future of Canada. The only thing the sponsorship program did is waking the idea of separation back from the deads.

 

[Techman]

Steak

I am not saying that the Liberals are without blame in the scandal. Of course they must share the blame. But their guilt as a party is that they are guilty of being stupid. They were naive enough to think that all the money they were willing to spend was going to go where it was supposed to. Obviously it didn't. And the bottom line still stands...no separatist sword hanging over our heads = no need for the sponsorship program to begin with = no scandal.
Now tonight I hear Duceppe talking about fiscal imbalance. Considering how much more Quebec gets back from Canada compared to how much it puts in, that's a real joke. We have the most overblown burocracy in the developed world. If Quebec ever managed to separate we would all be paying 70% of our salary to the gov't just to support it. Let's just have another referendum based on an honest and fair question and end this problem once and for all.

 

[joelcairo]

If you discount arrogance, greed, corruption, stupidity, and a few other flaws, there is really nothing wrong with the average Liberal politician.

 

[steak]

Techman

I don't think the Liberals were that stupid, I am sure Gagliano and Guite and richer now than they were 10 years ago because of the sponsorship. I think they helped their friends by feeding them our money and in return received massive contributions to their bank again from our money. So basically, we all paid for the election campaign of the Liberals. I think they are all well aware of what was going on. Most of the companies that made the more money were run by personnal friends of Chretien or Guite or Gagliano.

If there is a separatist threat, there is a reason and instead of just fighting it like a bull who charges the red towel, why not trying to understand what created the problem and what can solve it. If they want to eliminate a separation threat, they better turn their eyes on Alberta first because as soon as they realize how much their economy supports the rest of Canada they will want autonomy for sure. The separatis movement in Quebec is based on years of french people being considered low class citizens, never-do-wells, it is based on the treason all the other prime ministers did on Rene Levesque when the brought the constitution, it is based on Clyde Wells and this guy in Manitoba whose name I can't remember (I think Elijah Harper??) who rejected Meech, then Charlottetown was also rejected, it is based on people in Montreal who only speaks french not being able to get jobs that english speaking only people can get without know french, and recently it is on the discover that the federal government used tax payers money to sponsor those love manifestation on quebec in the last referendum (which from what I can gather is illegal).

On the other hand, people tend to forget that we impose the french language to the majority of the population. And as a counter product of us being immerged in an ocean of english, we have to learn the language and we get culturally richer (don't want to sound arrogant, sorry) as we can get the better of both cultures.

I agree with you on the Quebec being ill administred and I will never vote for separation unless there is some serious measures taken (yesterdays special law against public servants unions is one of them). Quebec pays more taxes than everywhere in Canada, yet our basic infrastructures are about to explode in our faces. What I read in the newspaper was scary, the law passed yesterday agains public services unions affects 500,000 people out of a 6 Millions population. Now that is way too f***ing much!!! Clean this messm then think of independance.

 

[lovin spoonful]

If you discount arrogance, greed, corruption, stupidity, and a few other flaws, there is really nothing wrong with the average politician.

I fixed that for you.

 

[walker]

If anyone remembers the hostility between Cretien and Martin in the last months you can imagine that Martin,as good finance minister, sees his arrogant over extended leader taking greed to extreme limits He cannot politically rat on his own team but he can rage and challenge the leadership as he did. All parties will take what the leader will dish out like chickens in a coup and I believe that Chretien was in too long and the severe corruption left with him.Martin cannot admit he knew but put a thorn in his leaders ass.
that just my opinion.

 

[Techman]

Steak, I feel that unions in general have way too much power in this province. Unions should be prohibited from any kind of political involvement or party support. I believe this is the way it is in the US. Our civil service is overbloated and the fact that they have "job security", in other words have jobs for life, is ridiculous. Our entire infrastructure needs a rehaul. We could probably fire half the civil service, along with their administration, and have a much more efficient system. But we can't...they have job security.

I agree that there were some Liberal politicians who took advantage of the opportunity to rip off the system. After so many years in power they thought they could do whatever they wanted and they got caught. But what alternatives do we have to the Liberals? The conservatives are pitiful, the NDP is a joke and don't have a chance in hell and the Bloc is totally irrelevant as they can never hold power and they are the main reason that I feel we are destined to have a string of minority governments. One thing I would like to see changed is that if you are running as a federal party you should have to run candidates in all provinces, not just one. Or at the very least, half of the provinces. As it is now, the Bloc is just a very powerful Quebec lobby group. Duceppe is a very competant politician and has some good ideas and viewpoints. But as many people have learned in the past, it is easy to criticize but difficult to be the one in power. But he will never have to worry about that.

 

[steak]

Techman

I have nothing else to say, I think we finally agree on something!

 

[Techman]

Daringly, I agree completely. One thing to add though...we should also lose the Monarchy and Gov General when the Queen dies.

Steak, I..ummh...uh...sorry I'm lost for words

I think we should start the merbite party. Make escort fees and lap dances tax deductible. Combined with our other ideas we would sweap the election and turn this country into the eutopia it should be.

 

[StripperLover]

Miko or Anyone else,

Please explain to me in a parliamentary system of government how anyone or any party can prevent or do anything with no power.

Seats in a parliamentary system is the only true power & that translates into either getting things done or not done & corrupting or making things corrupt.

The Bloc has nothing other than mouth pieces & that means nothing in the real world & even less in a parliamentary system of government, as talk is cheap. You can't protect any false sense interests unless you have power.

 

[robinXwood]

Voting for an almost Status Quo

Freaking politicians, It is true that Gilles Duceppe is the quickest an a real smart mouth when in debates. But think, is position in the parliament really helps him to do that. Since he will never be a gouverment because the Bloc is not everywhere in Canada it makes it very easy for him to take the position of a kind of journalist/critic. When the leader of a party in the opposition has to critic the gouverment he as to consider what would he will do if it was him and find adequate, viable, solution to the issue in question. If not, when he will be the government he will be criticise too.

Duceppe dont have to worry about that, he can sit back, relax an tell the other ones what they do wrong. Canada is a very compelx country and and to make everybody happy is virtualy impossible without raising taxes wich nobody, me first, wants. In end, I like the form of the parliament right now it forces them to negociate more. Less power trips and abuse. I hope that all this elections will be for nothing and that there will be a little less Liberals and more Conservative and the same number for Bloc.

I will vote like Miko LOL!

From the discussion, the light will emerge!

 

[StripperLover]

robinXwood,

These minority parliaments get nothing done & it causes a financial instabiltiy as a result which is not good for both you & I.

Elections cost lots of money & we are bound to get one every 1.5 yrs if a majority isn't attained soon.

Some people have short memories, in that the Conservative gov't of Mulroney was more than accused of corruption but now it's the Liberals who are at the trough.

Politicians (ALL of THEM) are full of shit & saying that one is better or worse than the other is a naive joke.
As for the Bloc, they are the worst because they claim or say that they are looking out for the interests of Quebec & that they are only there to make Quebec a separate & sovereign country but not one of them has publicly claimed that should they succeed in their desire to speaprate Quebec from Canada, they will renoounce & return any pension that they would be getting from the very country that they want to separate from.

 

[robinXwood]

There is a cost to everything!

StripperLover I agree with you about the financial instabiltiy, the difficulty to make laws and the cost of elections. Also I remember very well the corruptions scandals whe Mulroney was there.

But still I like that form of government because to me it is better to not be able to make quick descisions then make bad ones or corrupted ones.

Bottom line, how to vote correctly when there is no good choice. Liberals are corrupted but are the best choice since they are the continium, but we have to teach them a lesson for what happened. Maybe...again maybe Martin didnt to part of that but I am sure he knows.

Bloc is the best choice for Quebec but nil for the rest of Canada and I am not a separatist, besides that since he is not in power what can he really be other than a protesting way.

Conservative, a ressucitated party from two that I dont like, with a relativly new leader from the right, thanks but no thanks. I mean, do you remember the alliance, do you remmember the reform party? Conservative is now a quantity of left over trying to rise as a valid opposition to the liberals who where too strong with the help of their enemies including Conrad Black, what a faillure.

NPD lives in LALAland with politics who are centered on goods for the poor population. Well they can be idealistic all they want but at the end of the day if you raise the taxes on the riches they will move their goods somewhere else and where the country is going with no money and great social politics.

This is why politics is so boring now! No passion only compromise. It is impossible to choose the best one. You can go for the best of the bad if you know what I mean, and this one already screw us. This is why I go green sending a clear message that I dont like the choices offered.

This elections will be like buying a car and having the choice between lada, aspire and fiesta. Something to cry about!!!! LOL

 

[StripperLover]

robinXwood,

I don't see at all how the Bloc is the best for Quebec as they have no power & frankly I think that is lalaland to think they are.
Before Chretien (who I don't care for) got into politics Shawinigan was a nothing on the federal map & throughout his career 1st as a reg MP, then as a Minister & finally as PM, he singlehandidly put that town on the map & had the feds create jobs (CCRA-Revenue Canada) for those people that weren't there before & a museum as well. That's what power can do.
The Bloc offer nothing real to Quebecers who they contend that they are protecting, no jobs for their constituents no nothing, just rhetoric & bs.
The bottom line is that, a constituency having a MP or better, a Minister in the governing party of the time can get his constituents something that puts food on the table but there is no chance that a governing party is going to give or start a regional program or such in a region where they have no chance of winning an MP seat in.
The same thing happens in US politics, & our so-called corruption is peanuts compared to theirs & ours only affects us Canadians whereas theirs may in many cases affect the whole world

 

[Techman]

When the Bloc was formed they stated that they would never accept any kind of pension from Canada. When they saw that they would easily be able to meet the pension requirements they went back on that decision. They are just a bunch of political freeloaders who can never hold power, they can only screw up the system. As long as minority governments continue to be elected no real decisions will be able to be made. The ruling party will have no power and will soon fall. We will have election after election to look forward to and the money wasted on these will make the sponsorship scandal and the gun registry seem like bargains. Eventually Canada will be regarded as a bad investment and we will have no bargaining power with other countries. If the situation were to continue long enough and the PQ get back in power in Quebec, I would not be surprised to see a winning referendum in Quebec. I might even consider voting yes myself if we were to have 3 or 4 shortlived minority federal governments in a row just to put an end to the misery. I would not be surprised if some of the Bloc's planners actively pursue this instability for just this reason. Divide and conquer has always been a valid strategy to succeed when other methods fail.

 

[Techman]

Femaleluver, as long as the Bloc exists the Conservatives have no chance of making inroads in Quebec. Unless they were to get a leader from Quebec and that will never happen as they would kill their chances in the rest of Canada. And I don't think Martin has the ability to win a majority as the rest of Canada is tired of being led by a PM from Quebec. If the Liberals win with another minority gov't, I think they will have to seriously think of replacing Martin with a leader from outside the province of Quebec. Other than the Liberal strongholds here, the party is dead in Quebec. They have to build in the rest of the country to win a majority and they will not do that with Martin as the head. When is the last time we had an elected PM from outside Quebec in a majority government? Not since before Trudeau. I for one think it's about time for a change. For some reason I've always thought Brian Tobin would make a good PM. What is he doing now anyways?

 

[robinXwood]

to clarify!

StripperLover you get me wrong about the Bloc. What i mean is that they are the best choice if you want to protest. Of course they are not a good choice because they will never get power. Besides that I am not a separatist. So I vote green!!!!!