Guy Turcotte murder (and what is pissing me off about it).

[wilko26]

But now, he's free while his children are dead?

He's not free.... everyone atm freaking about 'he's free he wil be out soon etc' The judge didnt even pronounced something about it.... he might get a therapy in an institution for couple years with or without permission to get out.

Newspaper and tv show make $$$ by selling drama and everyone jump in it at the moment.

This trial was for 3 month, there's 11 peoples that saw the real story (not only the drama in the news paper)... Thoses 11 peoples had to agree all togethers (not 6 vs 5 etc....) and I remind there was 7 womens and 4 mens in the jury.

I don't think what he did its fine but it's funny to see that everyone were saying (before the judgement): 'You must be sick to kill your children' and now he got declared sick and people are surprised of that.

Again I don't think what he did it's fine but the jury had a choice of 4 decisions and they took that one and I think we should respect that.

 

[Mod 8]

Mods, this new member is good... :thumb: That would be "Check" + "Mate"!



That's the job of the Mods, keep shit from being stirred to the pt of bubbling outta the bowl + shit splatter on everyone's face. Otherwise u'd end up with the Blue Board or TERB!

It is against MERB rules to refuse PMs from moderators as this is the only way for us to contact members. If a member turns off their PM function and a moderator PM gets bounced, they will be banned until they contact us by email to explain themselves. In this case, this member was also using a proxy service to post which is forbidden and has resulted in a permanent ban.

Check and mate.

M8

 

[Mod 11]

Look like Mod 8 was faster than me!:thumb:

My opinion here have no link to the way I moderate. I repeat, I will not censor based on opinions, even if they differ from mine. I never did and I won't change it in this thread. The difference is, here, I made my opinion known. It's not like, when I don't voice my opinion, I don't have one!
Everybody is free to express an opinion, as long as it's done respectfully.

Ocean, I can't link whatever his wife did with his actions. Nobody is forced to do what he did and only a small few do it. His wife probably have her share of blame on the failure of the marriage but, how Turcotte handled it is totally on his shoulders and nobody else's. As Evilthings said, there's a difference between breaking some dishes and killing 2 children. The vast majority of guys who's wife drop them for whatever reason choose the first option at worst, he choose the second. His wife can't be blamed for that.

 

[ocean]

Hi mod 11, (and mod 8). First off I am kind of sorry for causing you guys a bit of grief.

I am in no way condoning Turcotte's behaviour. I am however saying that there is some responsibility on the mother's shoulder, to act as an adult and not be a hoochie mama who
does the trainer on her husband's bed.

If the situation was reversed , the husband was having and affair with a nurse and teh mother killed the kids, .....lets have some honesty, we would be saying oh poor mother she could not handle the fact that her family was unraveling in front of her eyes, and sh elost her rationale.
WE would be going awwwhh poor mommy.

Anyways, madame Gaston, gets a free new life.

 

[Mod 11]

Ocean, no grief at all. Your posts are not in question. We're debating an opinion and I must say, with the controversial point of view you're expressing, all are doing a pretty good job at keeping it civilized and that's perfect. This shows controversial topics can be discussed in a calm and intelligent manner. :thumb: You are entitled to your opinion and I'll protect your right to express it, no matter if I agree with it or not.

The opinion I'm giving on this topic is as an individual, not as a moderator.

In my opinion, if the roles were reversed, it would make no difference to me: killing somebody in such situation is unacceptable. She's not getting a free life: she lost her kids! She was not an abject woman who despised her kids and ignored them, she loved them.

True, she is now free of a marriage and free of taking care of her kids but, saying she now have a fresh start is voluntarily ignoring the fact she too will have to live with the over-reaction Turcotte had.

As I said, chances are she have her share of blame in the marriage failure but now, she have to live with the consequences of an act she had no control on. Her actions can't in no way be used to explain Turcotte's actions. He could have slammed the door, kicked the car, broke the dishes, rip pictures apart but, he choose to kill 2 kids. No matter what she did, it didn't deserve the reaction he had.

You can bet she'll always have some guilt that he did what he did because of her, guilt that she couldn't decode the signs he would go that far, guilt she couldn't protect her children... That's not a jail sentence but mentally, it's pretty hard to live with. We could say she lost everything instead of gaining a new life. Gaining the possibility to live with a new boyfriend is nothing compared to loosing 2 children.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Hi mod 11, (and mod 8). First off I am kind of sorry for causing you guys a bit of grief.

I am in no way condoning Turcotte's behaviour. I am however saying that there is some responsibility on the mother's shoulder, to act as an adult and not be a hoochie mama who
does the trainer on her husband's bed.

If the situation was reversed , the husband was having and affair with a nurse and teh mother killed the kids, .....lets have some honesty, we would be saying oh poor mother she could not handle the fact that her family was unraveling in front of her eyes, and sh elost her rationale.
WE would be going awwwhh poor mommy.

Anyways, madame Gaston, gets a free new life.

I do not understand your reasoning at all and completely disagree with it. Guy Turcotte snapped plain and simple. His ex-wife has no any responsibility in it. Relationships are all about change. People are always getting together then breaking up. It is part of life. Should a person be afraid to break out of a relationship?

Guy Turcotte's actions proves that he is emotionally very unstable. Killing his two children makes absolutely no sense and why take it out on innocent children?

As for the verdict I am unable to offer an opinion. The reason being there were 11 jurors that know the case more then anyone else. They obviously took this decision based on the case. People do not agree with it but they do not know much about the specifics of the case. The media is there to make money and will propagate opinions that may be biased and also the information would be distorted as they will want to create drama as that makes them $$$.

 

[eastender]

Justice.

The Guy Turcotte saga will never see justice. The only possible justice would be re-storing the lives of two innocent children. Not going to happen.

We are left with legalities as the only possible alternative to justice. Reality is that perfect legalities do not exist.

Perhaps the result obtained is the best. Prison would have put him at risk since child killers are targets. Not a favourable alternative.

As is the stigma remains and Guy Turcotte is in his own prison, his own hell.

 

[jeff jones]

Perhaps the result obtained is the best. Prison would have put him at risk since child killers are targets. Not a favourable alternative.

If he was put in prison and something bad were to happen to him that would be a-ok with me but that is just my opinion, fu*k him and anybody like him.

 

[evillethings]

Facts:

1. wife Gaston was also a Doctor.
2. husband Turcotte killed his 2 kids because he wanted to take them with him - stabbed 3yo girl 19 times + stabbed his 5yo boy 27 times
3. Turcotte "tried" very selfishly + failed to commit suicide ( come on, drinking Motormaster windshield fluid??? AND he's a Cardiologist??? maybe a knife to heart nxt time buddy!!!).

Definition of OVERKILL: So the father kills his 2 kids by stabbing them a total of 46 times YET he attempted to kill himself with windshield fluid.

Anyway, where the heck did they find those 11 jury members - not sure how 11 ppl blow the verdict n let a child killer walk!

 

[evillethings]

If he was put in prison and something bad were to happen to him that would be a-ok with me ...

Thought exactly the same thing! That would've been justice!

 

[evillethings]

...As is the stigma remains and Guy Turcotte is in his own prison, his own hell.

Somehow I dont feel that's sufficient... Turcotte's "own prison" should be a coffin ... 6ft under. We're talking about a child killer 1st n foremost, not jilted husband.

Again, jilted husband/wife does / should NOT = license to kill people!

 

[eastender]

Your Point

If he was put in prison and something bad were to happen to him that would be a-ok with me but that is just my opinion, fu*k him and anybody like him.

If Guy Turcotte had been convicted he would be jailed with similar type criminals who had killed other people - causing untold grief to families as well.

How would one of them harming Guy Turcotte benefit anyone except the criminal looking for an opportunity to valourize himself.? All the old wounds from the previously committed murders would be re-opened.

Most important of all none of the innocent victims would benefit in any fashion nor would the grieving survivors.

 

[jeff jones]

If Guy Turcotte had been convicted he would be jailed with similar type criminals who had killed other people - causing untold grief to families as well.

How would one of them harming Guy Turcotte benefit anyone except the criminal looking for an opportunity to valourize himself.? All the old wounds from the previously committed murders would be re-opened.

Most important of all none of the innocent victims would benefit in any fashion nor would the grieving survivors.

No you missed my point completely, my point is that scum bag child killers don't deserve to live period. As far as it opening old wounds i don't buy it, i don't think to many people would be shedding tears for him. Now you want to talk about opening old wounds, when he gets out that will open old wounds. I am sure his ex wife just can't wait to have this nutbar released and back on the streets.

 

[evillethings]

If Guy Turcotte had been convicted he would be jailed with similar type criminals who had killed other people - causing untold grief to families as well.

That's the point of a prison right, to hold ppl who've broken the law. Killing ur own kids - not carbon monoxide silent sleeping death but an utterly monstrous cruel stabbing rampage - prison would be least such an individual should expect.

How would one of them harming Guy Turcotte benefit anyone except the criminal looking for an opportunity to valourize himself.?...

It would do society a fav by disposing of such a low-life. Please don't point out the fact he was a physician... one's profession should not entitle one to acts of violence.

Guy Turcotte is a cold blooded murder!

 

[eastender]

At Best...............

That's the point of a prison right, to hold ppl who've broken the law. Killing ur own kids - not carbon monoxide silent sleeping death but an utterly monstrous cruel stabbing rampage - prison would be least such an individual should expect.


It would do society a fav by disposing of such a low-life. Please don't point out the fact he was a physician... one's profession should not entitle one to acts of violence.

Guy Turcotte is a cold blooded murder!

At best this seems like an attempt to argue that multiple wrongs will somehow make things right. Not buying.

"Doing society a favour" arguments have always produced more harm than good. Basic foundation used by histories scoundrels and worse to justify whatever evil they wish to spread.

 

[evillethings]

"Doing society a favour" arguments have always produced more harm than good. Basic foundation used by histories scoundrels and worse to justify whatever evil they wish to spread.

I'll assume that last bit came out wonky - but the society I want to live in doesnt include double child killers! To think the guy plunged a knife into the bodies of his own kids like they were sharks or alligators threatening his life. You don't find the man's actions completely sickening???

Two wrongs do make a right sometimes... this is one of those times.

 

[Merlot]

Huh,

Hi mod11, thank you for chiming in, as I said in my first words in my first post, I am not denying that he was crazy to kill innocents as it was the first words out of my mouth. My heated opinion was based around the fact that teh mother had no concern that the husband loved her, gave everything for her. he sacrificed years of his life for the family, ...........and did something dispicable. The fact that I am pissed off STEMS DIRECTLY FROM THE FACT THAT NO ONE HAS EVER ASKED WHERE WAS MADAME'S RESPONSIBILITY NOT TO BRING THE PERSONAL TRAINER INTO HER BED....WITH 2 YOUNG KIDS. Did she not have ANY responsibility in this sordid affair?

Many millions of couples have issues like one spouse cheating on the other. But no matter what level of responsibility one spouse's cheating has on disrupting the unity of the family there is no possible way or justification to excuse, lessen, or shift the 100% responsibility of the offended spouse for choosing to murder the children. There are an endless number of rational or even irrational choices one could make far short of this tragedy, and it doesn't matter how distressed the offended spouse may be, murder should never have been an option regardless of any other circumstances, and the murder of children is monstrous, never mind that in this case it was for the selfish reason of grave personal distress with no thought for the distress it inflicted on the children and the families.

BUT Ocean, think about this. Using your logic that her cheating was in some way, somehow responsible for his act, if this act represents what she was dealing with in her life then isn't his kind of temperament likely to have forced her emotional distance from him....putting responsibility on him again.

If the situation was reversed , the husband was having and affair with a nurse and teh mother killed the kids, .....lets have some honesty, we would be saying oh poor mother she could not handle the fact that her family was unraveling in front of her eyes, and sh elost her rationale.
WE would be going awwwhh poor mommy.

Anyways, madame Gaston, gets a free new life.

Not a chance. It doesn't matter which of the parties did what, and it seems like the rationale quoted is coming from a personal grudge, which is not applicable.

If Guy Turcotte had been convicted he would be jailed with similar type criminals who had killed other people - causing untold grief to families as well.

How would one of them harming Guy Turcotte benefit anyone except the criminal looking for an opportunity to valourize himself.? All the old wounds from the previously committed murders would be re-opened.

Most important of all none of the innocent victims would benefit in any fashion nor would the grieving survivors.

So if convicted you are suggesting what? All murderers be segregated from each other for their term? A bodyguard for each murderer to protect him? That because the killer may face the same fate he put his victim(s) through it's not fair?

Your basis for justice that "none of the victims would benefit", since they are DEAD, would have freed Jeff Dahmer, Timothy McVeigh, and Saddam Hussein, among so many many more. There can be no benefit to the victim of murder...ie...the dead. The goal is justice, as much as can be fairly and rightly given...and making an example of punishment that may prevent as many similar recurrences as possible. It is the killer that inflicted the suffering despite the fact that so many other options other than murder were easily available.

At best this seems like an attempt to argue that multiple wrongs will somehow make things right. Not buying.

"Doing society a favour" arguments have always produced more harm than good. Basic foundation used by histories scoundrels and worse to justify whatever evil they wish to spread.

Your reference has no connection to this case. It is not wrong or evil to apply justice that has universal moral foundation and backing in nearly every form of legal code. The imprisonment of a proven murderer after due legal process is nothing like a pretext to fulfill a predetermined selfish goal to gain territory, wealth, or power. It's justice. Referring to histories scoundrels who used pretexts to conquer is irrelevant misdirection. You infer there are no just motives for justice, or that the murderer should not suffer for the suffering he was the entire cause of, or that it is too stressful for all concerned to apply justice...ie...eliminate justice because it can't have perfect results. What is more obfuscating than that.

ish,

Merlot

 

[wilko26]

How many of you who disagree about the judgement have or will contact his 'deputy' or 'member of parlement' (found thoses two way to translate it) to ask him that we should remove the opportunity in a murder trial to be declared 'sick' like this?

mmmmm let me count..... well I only can guess and my guess is: 0!

It's easy to bitch on boards, facebook, twit-ter but when its a matter of taking real action usually peoples arent there.....

People are talking without knowing what it's been said really during the trial... what Quebecor or any 'I want sell copy so I will say some bs' tell you is far from reality sometime... I don't think that the 11 people that sitted there for 3 month got it easy. But they ended up to something unanimous and there was probably some father and some mother in this...

 

[eastender]

Our System

... I don't think that the 11 people that sitted there for 3 month got it easy. But they ended up to something unanimous and there was probably some father and some mother in this...

Which is exactly the point. If you have faith in justice then you have to have faith in the members of the jury to apply justice based on the evidence that they heard, saw and were presented supported by the judge's instructions.

If the result is not to your liking then you express your concern to your local provincial member of parliament clearly indicating your concerns in the appropriate manner. Organize petitions, interest groups, etc Plus the prosecution has to be respected and their options for appeal have to be considered.

The media sound bites designed to sell copies or attract attention have to be viewed against editorial policies and statements.

Regardless of opinions the reality is that the tragic loss of two innocent children will never be replaced and various efforts at imagery, hyperbole, or attempts at deriving right from multiple wrongs do not contribute to a better society within our beautiful province, vibrant city or compassionate country.

If anyone wants the last word be my guest.

 

[wilko26]

Regardless of opinions the reality is that the tragic loss of two innocent children will never be replaced and various efforts at imagery, hyperbole, or attempts at deriving right from multiple wrongs do not contribute to a better society within our beautiful province, vibrant city or compassionate country.

If anyone wants the last word be my guest.

Whats funny is that everyone were saying: 'you gotta be sick to kill your children' and now he got declared 'sick' and everyone surprised of this..... Overall I think this guy have like 0.00001 % chance to repeat it and based on the jury decision I rather have him getting treatment (he already got a therapy of 11 month btw) go back in society, pay taxes etc than have him in jail and it will cost us like 2.5-3mil over 25 year to keep him there (based that it cost more than 100k a year per person in federal jail).