Hamas & Israel

[Fradi]

Bingo Bingo Bingo!

This is never going to end and both sides know it.
After decades of killing and murdering each other nobody is going to shake hands and make up.
The Arab terrorist organizations want to eradicate Israel and they will never stop and the Israeli government is not much better.
There is no real answer to this and probably never will be.

If I had to pick who I would walk the streets beside as a Christian, I would be far safer in Israel than in any Arab country.
I have been to Israel a few times in the past on business, never felt safe at all and the hatred on both sides was so obvious there will never be peace in this part of the world, the hatred the mistrust the thirst for vengeance is too deep rooted and ingrained on both sides.

 

[snakejack]

Let’s say that the premises of non recognizing the UN partition plan in 1947 and being obsessed with that idea of eradicating Israel from the very beginning should be pit in the equation
Let’s recognize that this obsession has generated many offensive wars that were lost by arabs
Let’s admit that when you declare war and you loose you loose land
Let’s realize that Israel has historically given land for peace (Egypt-Jordan)
Let’s admit that Many offers for Palestinians state have been simply rejected by them
Don’t firget Israel gave All Gaza back for free … and don’t give me the bull shit open air prison.
They received billion in aid and used it to teach hate to their children, build tunnels and rockets and put the rest in their own pockets living the life in quatar with private jeta and high end escorts.
Admit that hamas and other Palestinian group don’t want peace with Israel and will never recognise it

Maybe if they start but changing their river to the sea mantra they could have a state

Let’s recognize that the arab states didn’t want Israel to become a reality 1900-1970

Let’s recognize that the arab state changed since then

Let’s recognize that Gaza wasn’t legally part of Israel and giving it back was the thing to do

Let’s recognize that the arab states are establishing diplomatic ties with Israel

Let’s recognize that in 2024 the war must end and a palestinian state must be created ASAP in order to prevent future wars

Let’s recognize that if Israel doesn’t recognize the UN resolutions, well Iran is then justified not to recognize UN resolutions with all the potential consequences

Let’s recognize that illegal settlements are to be demolished

 

[snakejack]

Let’s say that the premises of non recognizing the UN partition plan in 1947 and being obsessed with that idea of eradicating Israel from the very beginning should be pit in the equation
Let’s recognize that this obsession has generated many offensive wars that were lost by arabs
Let’s admit that when you declare war and you loose you loose land
Let’s realize that Israel has historically given land for peace (Egypt-Jordan)
Let’s admit that Many offers for Palestinians state have been simply rejected by them
Don’t firget Israel gave All Gaza back for free … and don’t give me the bull shit open air prison.
They received billion in aid and used it to teach hate to their children, build tunnels and rockets and put the rest in their own pockets living the life in quatar with private jeta and high end escorts.
Admit that hamas and other Palestinian group don’t want peace with Israel and will never recognise it

Maybe if they start but changing their river to the sea mantra they could have a state

Did you read this ?

Gun in hand, the Israeli settler tells the Palestinian: I will kill you

Palestinians in the West Bank say they are being driven from their homes by a campaign of terror waged by armed civilians determined to take their land

www.thetimes.com

 

[snakejack]

Let’s say that the premises of non recognizing the UN partition plan in 1947 and being obsessed with that idea of eradicating Israel from the very beginning should be pit in the equation
Let’s recognize that this obsession has generated many offensive wars that were lost by arabs
Let’s admit that when you declare war and you loose you loose land
Let’s realize that Israel has historically given land for peace (Egypt-Jordan)
Let’s admit that Many offers for Palestinians state have been simply rejected by them
Don’t firget Israel gave All Gaza back for free … and don’t give me the bull shit open air prison.
They received billion in aid and used it to teach hate to their children, build tunnels and rockets and put the rest in their own pockets living the life in quatar with private jeta and high end escorts.
Admit that hamas and other Palestinian group don’t want peace with Israel and will never recognise it

Maybe if they start but changing their river to the sea mantra they could have a state

I order to better understand your point of view i have some question…

1) do you support the illegal settlements ?

2) Are you aware that the arab states lime Bahrein, UAE, Morocco etc normalized their diplomatic ties with Israel ? And that Saudi Arabia is in the process ?

3) Tell me why it is a good thing for the jewish people to have a state but not the Palestinian people. Do you oppose the creation of a palestinian state as the UN suggested ?

4) What do you think of the UN resolutions on the subject of a peace treaty / ceasefire / ?

 

[minutemenX]

I order to better understand your point of view i have some question…

1) do you support the illegal settlements ?

2) Are you aware that the arab states lime Bahrein, UAE, Morocco etc normalized their diplomatic ties with Israel ? And that Saudi Arabia is in the process ?

3) Tell me why it is a good thing for the jewish people to have a state but not the Palestinian people. Do you oppose the creation of a palestinian state as the UN suggested ?

4) What do you think of the UN resolutions on the subject of a peace treaty / ceasefire / ?

Because Israel does not have with Palestinians a real peace partner. Even “moderate” Palestinian Authority is maintaining two-tire policy declaring mostly in English its willingness to attain separate state existing side by side with Israel while teaching in schools and in local propaganda in Arabic that it will be just a temporal solution, and the end goal is to eliminate the sate of Israel that has no rights to exist on Palestinian land. All Palestinian administrations always supported terrorism against Israel and its citizens covertly or openly. The truth is that the so-called Palestinian “resistant” movement now is nothing more than a business enterprise for Palestinian elites and they want to perpetuate it as long as possible. The solution to this impasse lies in the reformation of the Palestinian narrative as well as its administration and elite. They should embark on the road of economic and cultural development rejecting all terrorism and violence and explaining to their populous Israel's right to exist. On this path they will become a real peace partner, and the statehood will follow.

 

[EagerBeaver]

The truth is that the so-called Palestinian “resistant” movement now is nothing more than a business enterprise for Palestinian elites and they want to perpetuate it as long as possible.

A lot of people do not understand that Mahmoud Abbas is worth $100 million while his people eat sand. And he has absolutely no shame in it. It's part of a Kleptocracy that the Palestinian leadership lives in that profits off "resistance". Abbas is a huge steaming piece of shit.

Terrorists & Kleptocrats: How Corruption is Eating the Palestinians Alive - The Tower

In a startling and exclusive first-hand account, AARON MENENBERG exposes how the Palestinian Authority systematically prevents Palestinian entrepreneurs, farmers, and investors from improving their lives.

www.thetower.org

Wealth In Gaza: Why Some Are Rich & Some Are Poor

Do Israelis really live in comfort and wealth as their Palestinian neighbors live in abject poverty?According to the United Nations, as the war in Gaza continues the poverty rate in Palestinian-controlled areas will continue to rise. The United Nations estimates the poverty rate among...

www.mideastjournal.org

 

[fin]

A lot of people do not understand that Mahmoud Abbas is worth $100 million while his people eat sand. And he has absolutely no shame in it. It's part of a Kleptocracy that the Palestinian leadership lives in that profits off "resistance". Abbas is a huge steaming piece of shit.

Terrorists & Kleptocrats: How Corruption is Eating the Palestinians Alive - The Tower

In a startling and exclusive first-hand account, AARON MENENBERG exposes how the Palestinian Authority systematically prevents Palestinian entrepreneurs, farmers, and investors from improving their lives.

www.thetower.org

Wealth In Gaza: Why Some Are Rich & Some Are Poor

Do Israelis really live in comfort and wealth as their Palestinian neighbors live in abject poverty?According to the United Nations, as the war in Gaza continues the poverty rate in Palestinian-controlled areas will continue to rise. The United Nations estimates the poverty rate among...

www.mideastjournal.org

So, Abbas is a piece of shit and therefore genocide is ok. Bravo!

 

[minutemenX]

So, Abbas is a piece of shit and therefore genocide is ok. Bravo!

There is 2.1 M people in Gaza. About at least a quoter, i.e. 0.5M are men of the fighting age. By Hamas own admission at least 50,000 of these men were active members of Hamas and were trained soldiers. Israel claims that it has eliminated about 50% of the Hamas fighting force, i.e. around 25,000. Palestinians estimated that there are about 41,000 total casualties in Gaza (they do not discriminate between military and civilians) which comes to about 16,000 of civilian casualties. It is the lowest ratio of the civilian to military casualties in the history of the modern warfare, and you call it a genocide? In Iraq it was 3 to 1. It is a war that Hamas started and if you know how to wage a war in the very densely populated area and avoid civilian casualties you are welcome to share your ideas. Hamas did not care about own civilians and uses civilians as human shields. Do Russians commit genocide in Ukraine? They deliberately and openly bomb now civilian infrastructure. Why we do not see any demonstration against Russia's war in Ukraine in university campuses ?

 

[snakejack]

Because Israel does not have with Palestinians a real peace partner. Even “moderate” Palestinian Authority is maintaining two-tire policy declaring mostly in English its willingness to attain separate state existing side by side with Israel while teaching in schools and in local propaganda in Arabic that it will be just a temporal solution, and the end goal is to eliminate the sate of Israel that has no rights to exist on Palestinian land. All Palestinian administrations always supported terrorism against Israel and its citizens covertly or openly. The truth is that the so-called Palestinian “resistant” movement now is nothing more than a business enterprise for Palestinian elites and they want to perpetuate it as long as possible. The solution to this impasse lies in the reformation of the Palestinian narrative as well as its administration and elite. They should embark on the road of economic and cultural development rejecting all terrorism and violence and explaining to their populous Israel's right to exist. On this path they will become a real peace partner, and the statehood will follow.

This is a good comment.

The Palestinians have to change their stance toward Israel. The arabs countries must psh them in that direction if they don’t do it by themselves.

But what can do Israel to help defuse the situation and work toward a long term solution wich must along the road give birth to a palestinian state ?

Do you think that a first step should be stopping the illegal colonization wich is in 2024 the biggest problem ?

 

[snakejack]

A lot of people do not understand that Mahmoud Abbas is worth $100 million while his people eat sand. And he has absolutely no shame in it. It's part of a Kleptocracy that the Palestinian leadership lives in that profits off "resistance". Abbas is a huge steaming piece of shit.

Terrorists & Kleptocrats: How Corruption is Eating the Palestinians Alive - The Tower

In a startling and exclusive first-hand account, AARON MENENBERG exposes how the Palestinian Authority systematically prevents Palestinian entrepreneurs, farmers, and investors from improving their lives.

www.thetower.org

Wealth In Gaza: Why Some Are Rich & Some Are Poor

Do Israelis really live in comfort and wealth as their Palestinian neighbors live in abject poverty?According to the United Nations, as the war in Gaza continues the poverty rate in Palestinian-controlled areas will continue to rise. The United Nations estimates the poverty rate among...

www.mideastjournal.org

You’re right about the corruption. Arafat wasn’t a poor guy and his widow can shop on Champs Elysees …

But Netanyahu have is own affairs too. And from all the money poured in Israel by the USA some of it ….

That being said, do you support a peace process involving new leadership on both sides?

 

[snakejack]

There is 2.1 M people in Gaza. About at least a quoter, i.e. 0.5M are men of the fighting age. By Hamas own admission at least 50,000 of these men were active members of Hamas and were trained soldiers. Israel claims that it has eliminated about 50% of the Hamas fighting force, i.e. around 25,000. Palestinians estimated that there are about 41,000 total casualties in Gaza (they do not discriminate between military and civilians) which comes to about 16,000 of civilian casualties. It is the lowest ratio of the civilian to military casualties in the history of the modern warfare, and you call it a genocide? In Iraq it was 3 to 1. It is a war that Hamas started and if you know how to wage a war in the very densely populated area and avoid civilian casualties you are welcome to share your ideas. Hamas did not care about own civilians and uses civilians as human shields. Do Russians commit genocide in Ukraine? They deliberately and openly bomb now civilian infrastructure. Why we do not see any demonstration against Russia's war in Ukraine in university campuses ?

Regarding the war in Ukraine, we have seen protests and demonstrations.

The Ukrainian problem must not be mixed in this discussion i think.

Hamas like you said certainly have or had a hell lot of fighters. They have been financed by people with an agenda like we know. It’s good for some business.

Hamas was created because they have an ideology inspired by some crazy people mixed with rage related to the illegal settlements. It’s a mix.

When we get rid of them, the crazy guys, we will have to undertake serious steps to adress the situation of the Palestinians. The majority just want a contry and take care of their families.

After Hamas, Israel will have to retroced the illegal settlements and work with everybody to help create the Palestinian state. Otherwise another Hamas will come.

Do you support the creation of a palestinian state like Israel?

 

[snakejack]

So, Abbas is a piece of shit and therefore genocide is ok. Bravo!

I didn’t want t use the word genocide but since you did and thinking of it, more than 41,000 Palestinians assassinated / killed by IDF is at least near a genocide.

Let’s hope this will end soon and see the peace process on track.

 

[EagerBeaver]

That being said, do you support a peace process involving new leadership on both sides?

What do you not understand about there not being any peace process until an entire population who have been indoctrinated and brainwashed to believe "Death to Israel" and "Israel has no right to exist" have been reprogrammed, over a period of generations, by "new leadership"? Do you remember what happened to Anwar Sadat? Do you think "new leadership" would rather live like Arafat and Abbas, or end up like Sadat did?

Video - Anwar Sadat Assassination | Dan Rather

danratherjournalist.org

What rock do you live under that you are asking such questions and not understanding what the reality of the region is? Have you ever been to Israel? Yes or No?

 

[snakejack]

What do you not understand about there not being any peace process until an entire population who have been indoctrinated and brainwashed to believe "Death to Israel" and "Israel has no right to exist" have been reprogrammed, over a period of generations, by "new leadership"? Do you remember what happened to Anwar Sadat? Do you think "new leadership" would rather live like Arafat and Abbas, or end up like Sadat did?

Video - Anwar Sadat Assassination | Dan Rather

danratherjournalist.org

What rock do you live under that you are asking such questions and not understanding what the reality of the region is? Have you ever been to Israel? Yes or No?

I have been to Israel 5 times. Many friends over there. Nice nightlife in Tel Aviv!

So, if i understand your point of view, only the jewish people are entitled to have a contry. The Palestinians must not have the right to have a state.

Am i right ?

Did you ask yourself why the Palestinians started a war in 1947? I don’t support what happened in 1947 but we must remember the cause wich is the land.

The British gave some of the land for the creation of Israel. And the Palestinians supported by the arabs didn’t agree.

Now after 60 years of conflict, it’s about time to realize that the arabs countries did change and are establishing diplomatic ties with Israel (except some dinausor contries).

Today the hamas leadership is extinguished. We don’t want another hamas in 20 years. The Palestinians youth must not stay in an apartheid situation otherwise they will be listening to crazy guys suggesting the wrong path. The 2024 hamas leaders were teen in 1993….

It’s time to make some hard choices in Israel to have a real peace. Illegal settlements must not become permanent. The Palestinian state must be created.

Nobody have the right to blackmail a peace process unless they have some sort of devilishly goals like eradication of human life.

 

[EagerBeaver]

The Palestinians were offered a 2 state solution and rejected it, started a war and lost! And then they started 2 more wars and lost, all with the objective of eradicating Israel! The question isn't whether I want a Palestinian state, the question is whether they want a Palestinian state alongside Israel! They have answered that question negatively very consistently since 1947. Anwar Sadat was shot and killed in 1981 for not supporting that agenda.

The Middle East Problem | PragerU

The Middle East conflict is framed as one of the most complex problems in the world. But, in reality, it's very simple. Israelis want to live in peace and…

www.prageru.com

The Palestinian Agenda is the 3 No's:
-No Recognition
- No Negotiation
- No Peace

 

[snakejack]

The Palestinians were offered a 2 state solution and rejected it, started a war and lost! And then they started 2 more wars and lost, all with the objective of eradicating Israel! The question isn't whether I want a Palestinian state, the question is whether they want a Palestinian state alongside Israel! They have answered that question negatively very consistently since 1947. Anwar Sadat was shot and killed in 1981 for not supporting that agenda.

The Middle East Problem | PragerU

The Middle East conflict is framed as one of the most complex problems in the world. But, in reality, it's very simple. Israelis want to live in peace and…

www.prageru.com

The Palestinian Agenda is the 3 No's:
-No Recognition
- No Negotiation
- No Peace

And you, do YOU support a two state solution after we are done with Hamas ?

 

[EagerBeaver]

And you, do YOU support a two state solution after we are done with Hamas ?

How can anyone sanely answer that question without knowing what comes after Hamas? Do you remember what came before Hamas? Gaza could have easily been a state had any Palestinian leadership since 1947 accepted living in peace with Israel. To have peace, you probably need to do a number of things that require not only new leadership but 40-60 years of reeducation of the population. I don't see it happening unless it's a forced takeover and intensive re-education of the population. If the Palestinians were properly educated and grew up in an environment where they could see things for what they are, they would have rebelled and overthrown their leadership long ago. Instead, while their leadership enriches themselves at the expense of the population, they are able to effectively blame the Israelis for "genocide" of which they are themselves the architect, and get sheep with parrot-like qualities like you to echo that message. Therefore making peace impossible. It's a cycle of hate, perpetuated by the Palestinian leaders and perpetuated by you.

You don't even realize that you are a tool of the cyclical process of hate, who perpetuates this situation and PREVENTS peace, and your posts on this thread prove this. I already posted my position which is well stated by Professor Prager.

The Middle East Problem | PragerU

The Middle East conflict is framed as one of the most complex problems in the world. But, in reality, it's very simple. Israelis want to live in peace and…

www.prageru.com

 

[poupsy]

I definitly support the 2 state solution but you ‘ll find a lot more israelis than palestinian wanting a 2 state
The problem is that the palestinian leadership doesn’t want a 2 state they want it all from the river to the sea and this agenda has been pushed in youth arabs for decades since kidengarden.
There is no peace partner on the arab side. There has been and theù,re will be peace partner on the israeli side..Palestinians had many chances to have a land and accept some kind of compromise. Who wouldn’t after loosing wars you initiated??
It is NAIVE to think the settelemnts are the sole issue .. it is probably an solvable issue and it is clear now that it is not about land . It is about the total inability to accept a succesfull jewish state side by side a barbaric ideology backed up by iranians molahs.

Palestinian need to move away from this ideology and move foward. Many arab country are starting to understand that and are normalizing with israel.

 

[poupsy]

How about giving back the stolen land after having concluded the hamas eradication ?

In the past all arab states rejected wrongly Israel. This is the past.

Now they are establishing diplomatic ties and commercial partnerships.

Isn’t about time that israel change too?

Do you approve the right of the palestinian peeople to have a country ?

If you reject all UN resolutions regarding the conflict, you agree with me that ee should also reject all UN resolutions regarding what we call pariah states? Including North Korea, Iran and so on.

1) do you support the illegal settlements ?

2) Are you aware that the arab states lime Bahrein, UAE, Morocco etc normalized their diplomatic ties with Israel ? And that Saudi Arabia is in the process ?

What stolen land are you referring to exactly ? Can you specify??
If you refer to conquered land after winning a defensive war it is not stolen…
Sinai was returned to Egypt in exchange for peace
Gaza was handed with no condition…look what happened
Judea Samaria or Cis jordania was won in battle as so for Golan heights

You can’t initiate a war, loose it and say hold on ..””give me back my land and by the way I still want to kill you”” . Who are we kidding here??

 

[EagerBeaver]

You can’t initiate a war, loose it and say hold on ..””give me back my land and by the way I still want to kill you”” . Who are we kidding here??

It's pretty incredible, isn't it?