Hamas & Israel

[poupsy]

The comparison is not about the description of the events but the degree of criminality and disregard for human life. Killing innocent people under the pretext of fighting terrorism, is not so far from killing Innocent Jews because they are considered inferior by that Psycho. The morality stands and is Similar. What is more choking is that they are called terrorist, and we only see them killing Soldiers, while The IDF is killing kids, babies, and Civilians, and we only see them destroying tanks and military trucks, while the IDF is destroying houses, hospitals, and schools. It seems we need to redefine terrorism at this stage. We are witnessing a genocide, and still, we find people making excuses for it. After destroying everything in Gaza, now they are turning that Killing machine to the West Bank. They will slowly increase the dose of violence, claiming to kill more terrorist with each escalation. It is clear by now that for Netanyahu, the Palestinians need to be removed from all the land. It seems that for him and his supporters, Palestinians are genetically terrorist.

I think again that using the trending word of genocide is so hypocritical
Are you anywere concerned by 500000 syrians civilians killed by Assad, 300000 yemenites, china 1 Million ougry that nonone knows what’s going on with them
Instead you focus on this tiny small conflit and you forget that since the beginning arab world would have absolutely no second thoughts if they could kill all the jews and comit an actual genocide
Many of pro tyranic supporters like you would love to see israel collapse
Hamas would comit another october 7 if they could and they say it. Hezbollah have the same intention. West bank if filled with terror activists . They have no intention or will to live along side israel. They never had. They refused all the offers they had since 1947
What in the world would you expect israel to do?? Spare potential civilians loss and risk loosing their own to make the world happy??
The Palestinian cause is a fake cause. I wish they can compromise accept a land thrive and forget their genocidal intention. Th western world wants that but unfortunately they don’t and they teach hate to their kids and now quatar and iran are instilating this lies in our youth kids mind.
Anyone that support those islamic extremism views should seriously reconsider

 

[Francoquart]

Many of pro tyranic supporters like you would love to see israel collapse

Why the accusation? It is usually a sign of a weak position when you get personal. The argument stands regardless of me.

Are you anywere concerned by 500000 syrians civilians killed by Assad, 300000 yemenites, china 1 Million ougry

Again a sign of a weak argument trying to shift the subject. Open a thread on these issues and witness me arguing on your side.
The real question is why are you so pro "innocent civilians" with these issues and yet dismissal of IDF's criminal actions.

What in the world would you expect israel to do

To implement the Oslo agreement and accept a 2 states solutions (a state, not a territory controlled by Israel), instead of planting new settlements in the West Bank, and carrying an air, sea, and land embargo on Gaza. You want Hamas weakened, take away their legitimacy by removing the cause with which they can attract followers. The Arab countries have issued in the past that if settled, they will be willing have regularize relations with Israel.

Anyone that support those islamic extremism views should seriously reconsider

How is giving the Palestinians their rights an Islamist extremist view? Are you saying that Palestinians have no right whatsoever and consider anyone calling for them an extremist? Because as far as I see it, Islamist Extremist and Netanyahu are close Cousins

Hamas would comit another october 7

Yeah, we differ on the perception of 7 October. It is by now clear that the narrative given at the starts was a package of lies. The IDF has killed many of those civilians under the "Hannibal Protocol", and those video we saw belongs to Isis in Syria, so repeating a lie does not make it real. I do not know at this stage if Hamas is bad or good, simply because the atrocities and devastations that the IDF has caused are so immense that everything these have done is shadowed.
The international court is pursuing Netanyahu and not Hamas. Every day civilians are dying and homes destroyed, can you say the same about Israeli civilians and homes?

 

[poupsy]

Why the accusation? It is usually a sign of a weak position when you get personal. The argument stands regardless of me.

Again a sign of a weak argument trying to shift the subject. Open a thread on these issues and witness me arguing on your side.
The real question is why are you so pro "innocent civilians" with these issues and yet dismissal of IDF's criminal actions.

To implement the Oslo agreement and accept a 2 states solutions (a state, not a territory controlled by Israel), instead of planting new settlements in the West Bank, and carrying an air, sea, and land embargo on Gaza. You want Hamas weakened, take away their legitimacy by removing the cause with which they can attract followers. The Arab countries have issued in the past that if settled, they will be willing have regularize relations with Israel.

How is giving the Palestinians their rights an Islamist extremist view? Are you saying that Palestinians have no right whatsoever and consider anyone calling for them an extremist? Because as far as I see it, Islamist Extremist and Netanyahu are close Cousins


Yeah, we differ on the perception of 7 October. It is by now clear that the narrative given at the starts was a package of lies. The IDF has killed many of those civilians under the "Hannibal Protocol", and those video we saw belongs to Isis in Syria, so repeating a lie does not make it real. I do not know at this stage if Hamas is bad or good, simply because the atrocities and devastations that the IDF has caused are so immense that everything these have done is shadowed.
The international court is pursuing Netanyahu and not Hamas. Every day civilians are dying and homes destroyed, can you say the same about Israeli civilians and homes?

i don’t underStand? you mean that oct 7 was a lie?

It hasn’t strike to anyone that the settlements (even if personally think it is an issue) are not the root cause of the conflict
Land swap was negociated and Palestinians got 97% of what they claimed..
why 2Miilions muslims can live and thrive in Israel but there should me No jews in Palestinian territory ??
The real goal it is about having it all and wipping out Israel
I am not in favor of any civilian casualties and I wish.. war is dirty and horrible. Hamas could have ended it since 300 days.. they don’t give a shit
They want you to see the horror

 

[EagerBeaver]

They want you to see the horror

Exactly, that is the Hamas playbook: conduct operations from highly concentrated civilians areas, and tunnels underneath them, maximize deaths of their own so called civilian shield "martyrs", and manipulate the world sheep (including Franocquart) who are bamboozled by media reports into thinking the IDF has committed atrocities. The playbook works on sheep, but hopefully enough people living in the real world and seeing what is happening will keep the sheep in a fenced in corral where they belong, and not roaming around and making noise.

 

[Francoquart]

i don’t underStand? you mean that oct 7 was a lie?

Netanyahu version yes was a complete distortion of events.

It hasn’t strike to anyone that the settlements (even if personally think it is an issue) are not the root cause of the conflict
Land swap was negociated and Palestinians got 97% of what they claimed..
why 2Miilions muslims can live and thrive in Israel but there should me No jews in Palestinian territory ??
The real goal it is about having it all and wipping out Israel

I do not get it. The Oslo agreement was signed by the Palestinian accepting a 2-state solution. The settlement on the west bank makes it impossible to achieve, so why are you removing it from the equation? The root cause of the problem is occupation, the settlements are just one of the many occupational tools. Plus, instead of stopping or shrinking, they kept growing. I mean the conflict has been raging since 48, and it has undergone many developments. Your version of events is still stuck at that date. The 2-state solution was endorsed by 90 percent of the Arabs, and only refused by the fanatics. Israel's part of the deal was to stop the settlements and stop the control of all Palestinians things. This never happened, which increased the appeal for resistance and violence.

You are siding with the IDF against whom exactly? If Hamas is, as claimed taking the people hostages, and does not care about the civilians, why is Israel not respecting any of the treaty that has been created since WW2 to protect civilians?

Again, we are not seeing Israeli school, hospitals, Homes, or any civilian casualties. We are only seeing these from the Palestinian side.

IDF has committed atrocities

So.... Killing civilians is just a nice thing to do? Destroying homes, hospitals, schools, infrastructure, does not classify as atrocities? We are sheep because we would like to see an end of the Violence and killings? We are sheep because it is so damn hard to watch kids being orphaned or killed? So being Human is sheep for you? Then sure, I am a sheep that would like to see these crimes stopped, and that madman put behind bars. Any psycho that justifies mass killings needs to be stopped.

 

[EagerBeaver]

So.... Killing civilians is just a nice thing to do?

Hamas thinks so. Their entire military strategy is based on it. They even call them "martyrs" and glorify civilians who die. It's wonderful for them because they can get people like you to believe it wasn't them that did it. They have no army. Just embedded terrorists.

 

[poupsy]

Exactly, that is the Hamas playbook: conduct operations from highly concentrated civilians areas, and tunnels underneath them, maximize deaths of their own so called civilian shield "martyrs", and manipulate the world sheep (including Franocquart) who are bamboozled by media reports into thinking the IDF has committed atrocities. The playbook works on sheep, but hopefully enough people living in the real world and seeing what is happening will keep the sheep in a fenced in corral where they belong, and not roaming around and making

Netanyahu version yes was a complete distortion of events.

I do not get it. The Oslo agreement was signed by the Palestinian accepting a 2-state solution. The settlement on the west bank makes it impossible to achieve, so why are you removing it from the equation? The root cause of the problem is occupation, the settlements are just one of the many occupational tools. Plus, instead of stopping or shrinking, they kept growing. I mean the conflict has been raging since 48, and it has undergone many developments. Your version of events is still stuck at that date. The 2-state solution was endorsed by 90 percent of the Arabs, and only refused by the fanatics. Israel's part of the deal was to stop the settlements and stop the control of all Palestinians things. This never happened, which increased the appeal for resistance and violence.

You are siding with the IDF against whom exactly? If Hamas is, as claimed taking the people hostages, and does not care about the civilians, why is Israel not respecting any of the treaty that has been created since WW2 to protect civilians?

Again, we are not seeing Israeli school, hospitals, Homes, or any civilian casualties. We are only seeing these from the Palestinian side.

So.... Killing civilians is just a nice thing to do? Destroying homes, hospitals, schools, infrastructure, does not classify as atrocities? We are sheep because we would like to see an end of the Violence and killings? We are sheep because it is so damn hard to watch kids being orphaned or killed? So being Human is sheep for you? Then sure, I am a sheep that would like to see these crimes stopped, and that madman put behind bars. Any psycho that justifies mass killings needs to be stopped.

I’m sorry but you are sounding like a oct 7 denial
This was the most barbaric atrocities comited on civilians in the modern era
Hamas even filmed it live and they are proud ofnit and they would repeat it if they could.

Name me one war where civilians weren’t hurt. Kids die in Ukraine also and hospitals are bombed. You got to be naive to thing that israel can wage a war without hurting and destroy infrastructures.
October 7 cannot happen. Any country will make sure it doesn’t happen

Every civilian infrastructure hospital schools And UN facilities are hideouts for hamas
It is a terrible thing but it this what hamas exactly wants.

 

[Francoquart]

I’m sorry but you are sounding like a oct 7 denial

Yes, I deny the version you are sticking to in order to feel ok with the current massacre. Not even one name was released regarding the footages, but they were video from Isis that were similar.
October 7 was the result of the miserable life Palestinians were leading because of the occupation. Israel HAS NO RIGHT TO CLAIM self defense. They are the occupiers, the stronger, and the richer. They have razed Gaza to the ground, committed genocide, all because the people they are occupying have had enough and decided to do something to change reality. The proof is that they are still fighting regardless of the extremely heavy price they are paying.
I seriously hope that you see this issue in a more humane perspective. Palestinians do belong to the human race, they are not insects or microbes. They also would like to be free, have hope for the future, have security like us. Take that away, and the result will be resistance. Even if it was self defense, massacring the population and destroying all civilian structures are still considered war crimes, but as said before, they are not in self defense, like in 1948. They are the aggressors now.

 

[EagerBeaver]

They also would like to be free, have hope for the future, have security like us. Take that away

WRONG- they were offered all of that in 1947 and they took it away from themselves by attacking Israel with the stated intention of destroying Israel. They did not want a 2 State solution,, they wanted 1 Palestinian State, no Israel, and that remains the intention of Hamas. How is it you cannot get this thrrough your head? Do you deliberately ignore actual history or did someone forget to teach it to you?

And since you are apparently ignorant of it, there are over 2 million Palestinians who are free, and have hope for the future, but not very much security- all because of Hamas. They are Israeli Palestinians. There are more Palestinians in Israel than Gaza, in fact over 3 times as many. They are citizens of Israel, and many fight in the IDF as volunteers since they are not conscripted as are Jews. They also serve in the Knesset and help govern Israel.

An Israeli Palestinian many of you will be watching on TV in the coming weeks as the series the Old Man releases season 2 is Leem Lubany. She was born in Nazareth and lived in a Kibbutz. She is an Israeli Palestinian. She had these opportunities to get into film/TV as an actress when she was in school on the kibbutz.

Leem Lubany | Actress, Soundtrack

Known for: Omar, Rock the Kasbah, The Old Man

www.imdb.com

Leem Lubany - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[silkandvelvet]

Natanya

The solution is to get the terrorist and liberate the hostages. Now the jews are killing the population of Gaza but no do not free the hostages. The lack of intelligence is not a reason tho make a genocide.

Natanyahu is totally craxy.

IHe destroy a country comit a genocide did not liberate the hostage. Adolf Hitler was more military intelligent than Natanyahu but also a bit stupid as well wih opening two fronts. Both Natanyahu and Hitler were very naïves. Natanaya depends on the support of USA which might not the case in the near Future.
Natanyahu is paving the road for an exetermination of the Jews. Sow hatred, you recolte war.

 

[Francoquart]

And since you are apparently ignorant of it, there are over 2 million Palestinians who are free, and have hope for the future, but not very much security- all because of Hamas. They are Israeli Palestinians. There are more Palestinians in Israel than Gaza, in fact over 3 times as many. They are citizens of Israel, and many fight in the IDF as volunteers since they are not conscripted as are Jews. They also serve in the Knesset and help govern Israel.

Your arrogance aside, even if this is true, which of course I contest, since they are considered second class citizens with no real power. How does that give the IDF the right to wipe out a whole city and commit genocide? If Hamas is as bad as claimed, and the IDF as angelique as you believe, then shouldn't their mission be to liberate them from Hamas instead of wiping them out?
On another note, the army actually wants to stop the war, but that madman just removed them and kept going.

 

[EagerBeaver]

since they are considered second class citizens with no real power.

Considered by who, other than you? They have reps in the Knesset and volunteer for military service. If they are second class citizens, why would they have a brigade of volunteers in the IDF, fighting against Hamas? And participating in what you claim is a "genocide" of their brothers?

Francoquart, your posts are based on a lack of education on Israel and the relevant facts and history of the conflict. You need to educate yourself much better than you have. It is not our job to do so. All you are doing is regurgitating drivel and spin from Al Jazzerra rather than posting legitimate commentary.

 

[Francoquart]

Considered by who, other than you? They have reps in the Knesset and volunteer for military service. If they are second class citizens, why would they have a brigade of volunteers in the IDF, fighting against Hamas? And participating in what you claim is a "genocide" of their brothers?

You focus on this issue because you are unable to explain the genocide. I granted it to you by asking if that is true, how does it give "Carte blanche" to the IDF to wipe out a city and mass murder civilians. More than that, lets assume that Israel is the land of freedom, and equality, does that mean they can commit Genocide and excuse them from breaking all treaties and conventions regarding the protection of civilians? Now, if you do not believe that there is a Genocide, then you should take your advice and get more aware about the issue.

 

[poupsy]

Your arrogance aside, even if this is true, which of course I contest, since they are considered second class citizens with no real power. How does that give the IDF the right to wipe out a whole city and commit genocide? If Hamas is as bad as claimed, and the IDF as angelique as you believe, then shouldn't their mission be to liberate them from Hamas instead of wiping them out?
On another note, the army actually wants to stop the war, but that madman just removed them and kept going.

if yo ever have a chance to go to israel you will see it by yourself. arab israeli sits on parliament go to university and are doctors and juges. educate yourself please .
of course you will never criticize hamas and their Billionaire leaders who are as matter of fact the real oppressors of the palestinian people. they steal the international aid and teach kids hatred and jew slaying. funny this never comes up apart critics of the only real democracy in the middle east. yo will never give any responsibility to the hamas agenda. they claim it clear and loud buy like other israel hatter yo choose to ignore it.

 

[poupsy]

You focus on this issue because you are unable to explain the genocide. I granted it to you by asking if that is true, how does it give "Carte blanche" to the IDF to wipe out a city and mass murder civilians. More than that, lets assume that Israel is the land of freedom, and equality, does that mean they can commit Genocide and excuse them from breaking all treaties and conventions regarding the protection of civilians? Now, if you do not believe that there is a Genocide, then you should take your advice and get more aware about the issue.

the word genocide in this situation is completely false .
do you even know how urban warfare is carried? are yo a military expert ??
hamas Iran and friends will be glad to commit a real genocide of jewish people. hamas has called for jew killing in the western world.

 

[EagerBeaver]

the word genocide in this situation is completely false .
do you even know how urban warfare is carried? are yo a military expert ??
hamas Iran and friends will be glad to commit a real genocide of jewish people. hamas has called for jew killing in the western world.

You think Francoquart knows a single thing about urban warfare? He is no military expert. To the extent there are civilian casualties they have been orchestrated by Hamas by committing terrorist acts, retreating cowardly behind human shields, and then waiting for the media to do the rest. Because they know media only reports on the suffering, not on how it came about, and IDF gets blamed because they are perceived to be in control of the situation. They can't even see Hamas, because they are all in hiding. What we see in these posts is a lack of understanding as to exactly what is going on there at ground zero. It's unfortunate that Hamas is doing this to their civilian population, but the civilians have a duty to rise up and overthrow them. Especially as these casualties grow.

 

[poupsy]

You think Francoquart knows a single thing about urban warfare? He is no military expert. To the extent there are civilian casualties they have been orchestrated by Hamas by committing terrorist acts, retreating cowardly behind human shields, and then waiting for the media to do the rest. Because they know media only reports on the suffering, not on how it came about, and IDF gets blamed because they are perceived to be in control of the situation. They can't even see Hamas, because they are all in hiding. What we see in these posts is a lack of understanding as to exactly what is going on there at ground zero. It's unfortunate that Hamas is doing this to their civilian population, but the civilians have a duty to rise up and overthrow them. Especially as these casualties grow.

of course Hamas doesn't get blamed for anything. They pass as the liberators of the palestinian people despite all the evil things they do. People see no wrong doing in those barbars from the medieval times.
forget all the billions they stole, forget how they oppress their people, forget they clearly stated intent to wipe out the jews, forget the oct 7th atrocities, and the joy and glee when they celebrated this day (Same images of joy and pride after sept 11 also) forget about the lavish life they live in Quatar with our aid...

 

[Halloween Mike]

I do not know at this stage if Hamas is bad or good,

With that one line you litterally crumble all your arguments. If you can't define if a terrorists organization comprise of barbarians, monsters and rapists is bad or good, then you clearly are unable to judge this conflict.

There is no genocide in Gaza. There is a war with civilian casualities. A war started by a terrorist organization, wich they could end any day since Oct 8.

Every school, hospitals etc has been used by them as a tool of war and/or to be tunnel entries. Gaza need to be flattened (in term of buildings) because even after almost a year, there is tons of tunnels not discovered by the IDF. Thats probably the only "praise" i can give these peoples, they ain't lazy when it comes to building tunnels. In 15 years they build a city under a city.

I think the IDF do try to avoid killing civilians but if a high ranking member of Hamas is with his familly (and we know for these peoples famillies are not 4 peoples usually), they will pull the switch anyway. After that its up to peoples to judge if it was the right or wrong move. Some will say his familly didn't had to die, others will say if you can take the shot, take the shot. Why was he with his familly in the first place? He knew he would endanger them.

I seen too much of Gaza in the last year to have pity for them. Too many peoples still support Hamas and do not help Israel. If anything they help Hamas by holding hostages.

Imagine when you see a facebook video of a murder case when someone kidnapped someone, raped or tortured them for 2-3 days then killed them. You think how horrible this is. Now think some of these hostages have endured that for almost a year while also getting hold in small room with no windows, starved. Thats what happened to Eden Yerushalmi and others. After a year of enduring, they killed her in cold blood.

So if Israel have to finish this war, then so be it.

 

[minutemenX]

You focus on this issue because you are unable to explain the genocide. I granted it to you by asking if that is true, how does it give "Carte blanche" to the IDF to wipe out a city and mass murder civilians. More than that, lets assume that Israel is the land of freedom, and equality, does that mean they can commit Genocide and excuse them from breaking all treaties and conventions regarding the protection of civilians? Now, if you do not believe that there is a Genocide, then you should take your advice and get more aware about the issue.

Look at my post #260. It explains that the so called "genocide" people in Gaza just all made up by Hamas propaganda and repeated by either ignorant people or worse. Israel in fact needs to be commended for minimizing civilian casualties.

 

[believe]

War is terrible no buts about it!