Hamas & Israel

[snakejack]

Because Israel does not have with Palestinians a real peace partner. Even “moderate” Palestinian Authority is maintaining two-tire policy declaring mostly in English its willingness to attain separate state existing side by side with Israel while teaching in schools and in local propaganda in Arabic that it will be just a temporal solution, and the end goal is to eliminate the sate of Israel that has no rights to exist on Palestinian land. All Palestinian administrations always supported terrorism against Israel and its citizens covertly or openly. The truth is that the so-called Palestinian “resistant” movement now is nothing more than a business enterprise for Palestinian elites and they want to perpetuate it as long as possible. The solution to this impasse lies in the reformation of the Palestinian narrative as well as its administration and elite. They should embark on the road of economic and cultural development rejecting all terrorism and violence and explaining to their populous Israel's right to exist. On this path they will become a real peace partner, and the statehood will follow.

This is a good comment.

The Palestinians have to change their stance toward Israel. The arabs countries must psh them in that direction if they don’t do it by themselves.

But what can do Israel to help defuse the situation and work toward a long term solution wich must along the road give birth to a palestinian state ?

Do you think that a first step should be stopping the illegal colonization wich is in 2024 the biggest problem ?

 

[snakejack]

A lot of people do not understand that Mahmoud Abbas is worth $100 million while his people eat sand. And he has absolutely no shame in it. It's part of a Kleptocracy that the Palestinian leadership lives in that profits off "resistance". Abbas is a huge steaming piece of shit.

Terrorists & Kleptocrats: How Corruption is Eating the Palestinians Alive - The Tower

In a startling and exclusive first-hand account, AARON MENENBERG exposes how the Palestinian Authority systematically prevents Palestinian entrepreneurs, farmers, and investors from improving their lives.

www.thetower.org

https://www.mideastjournal.org/post/wealth-in-gaza

You’re right about the corruption. Arafat wasn’t a poor guy and his widow can shop on Champs Elysees …

But Netanyahu have is own affairs too. And from all the money poured in Israel by the USA some of it ….

That being said, do you support a peace process involving new leadership on both sides?

 

[snakejack]

There is 2.1 M people in Gaza. About at least a quoter, i.e. 0.5M are men of the fighting age. By Hamas own admission at least 50,000 of these men were active members of Hamas and were trained soldiers. Israel claims that it has eliminated about 50% of the Hamas fighting force, i.e. around 25,000. Palestinians estimated that there are about 41,000 total casualties in Gaza (they do not discriminate between military and civilians) which comes to about 16,000 of civilian casualties. It is the lowest ratio of the civilian to military casualties in the history of the modern warfare, and you call it a genocide? In Iraq it was 3 to 1. It is a war that Hamas started and if you know how to wage a war in the very densely populated area and avoid civilian casualties you are welcome to share your ideas. Hamas did not care about own civilians and uses civilians as human shields. Do Russians commit genocide in Ukraine? They deliberately and openly bomb now civilian infrastructure. Why we do not see any demonstration against Russia's war in Ukraine in university campuses ?

Regarding the war in Ukraine, we have seen protests and demonstrations.

The Ukrainian problem must not be mixed in this discussion i think.

Hamas like you said certainly have or had a hell lot of fighters. They have been financed by people with an agenda like we know. It’s good for some business.

Hamas was created because they have an ideology inspired by some crazy people mixed with rage related to the illegal settlements. It’s a mix.

When we get rid of them, the crazy guys, we will have to undertake serious steps to adress the situation of the Palestinians. The majority just want a contry and take care of their families.

After Hamas, Israel will have to retroced the illegal settlements and work with everybody to help create the Palestinian state. Otherwise another Hamas will come.

Do you support the creation of a palestinian state like Israel?

 

[snakejack]

So, Abbas is a piece of shit and therefore genocide is ok. Bravo!

I didn’t want t use the word genocide but since you did and thinking of it, more than 41,000 Palestinians assassinated / killed by IDF is at least near a genocide.

Let’s hope this will end soon and see the peace process on track.

 

[EagerBeaver]

That being said, do you support a peace process involving new leadership on both sides?

What do you not understand about there not being any peace process until an entire population who have been indoctrinated and brainwashed to believe "Death to Israel" and "Israel has no right to exist" have been reprogrammed, over a period of generations, by "new leadership"? Do you remember what happened to Anwar Sadat? Do you think "new leadership" would rather live like Arafat and Abbas, or end up like Sadat did?

Video - Anwar Sadat Assassination | Dan Rather

danratherjournalist.org

What rock do you live under that you are asking such questions and not understanding what the reality of the region is? Have you ever been to Israel? Yes or No?

 

[snakejack]

What do you not understand about there not being any peace process until an entire population who have been indoctrinated and brainwashed to believe "Death to Israel" and "Israel has no right to exist" have been reprogrammed, over a period of generations, by "new leadership"? Do you remember what happened to Anwar Sadat? Do you think "new leadership" would rather live like Arafat and Abbas, or end up like Sadat did?

Video - Anwar Sadat Assassination | Dan Rather

danratherjournalist.org

What rock do you live under that you are asking such questions and not understanding what the reality of the region is? Have you ever been to Israel? Yes or No?

I have been to Israel 5 times. Many friends over there. Nice nightlife in Tel Aviv!

So, if i understand your point of view, only the jewish people are entitled to have a contry. The Palestinians must not have the right to have a state.

Am i right ?

Did you ask yourself why the Palestinians started a war in 1947? I don’t support what happened in 1947 but we must remember the cause wich is the land.

The British gave some of the land for the creation of Israel. And the Palestinians supported by the arabs didn’t agree.

Now after 60 years of conflict, it’s about time to realize that the arabs countries did change and are establishing diplomatic ties with Israel (except some dinausor contries).

Today the hamas leadership is extinguished. We don’t want another hamas in 20 years. The Palestinians youth must not stay in an apartheid situation otherwise they will be listening to crazy guys suggesting the wrong path. The 2024 hamas leaders were teen in 1993….

It’s time to make some hard choices in Israel to have a real peace. Illegal settlements must not become permanent. The Palestinian state must be created.

Nobody have the right to blackmail a peace process unless they have some sort of devilishly goals like eradication of human life.

 

[EagerBeaver]

The Palestinians were offered a 2 state solution and rejected it, started a war and lost! And then they started 2 more wars and lost, all with the objective of eradicating Israel! The question isn't whether I want a Palestinian state, the question is whether they want a Palestinian state alongside Israel! They have answered that question negatively very consistently since 1947. Anwar Sadat was shot and killed in 1981 for not supporting that agenda.

The Middle East Problem | PragerU

The Middle East conflict is framed as one of the most complex problems in the world. But, in reality, it's very simple. Israelis want to live in peace and…

www.prageru.com

The Palestinian Agenda is the 3 No's:
-No Recognition
- No Negotiation
- No Peace

 

[snakejack]

The Palestinians were offered a 2 state solution and rejected it, started a war and lost! And then they started 2 more wars and lost, all with the objective of eradicating Israel! The question isn't whether I want a Palestinian state, the question is whether they want a Palestinian state alongside Israel! They have answered that question negatively very consistently since 1947. Anwar Sadat was shot and killed in 1981 for not supporting that agenda.

The Middle East Problem | PragerU

The Middle East conflict is framed as one of the most complex problems in the world. But, in reality, it's very simple. Israelis want to live in peace and…

www.prageru.com

The Palestinian Agenda is the 3 No's:
-No Recognition
- No Negotiation
- No Peace

And you, do YOU support a two state solution after we are done with Hamas ?

 

[EagerBeaver]

And you, do YOU support a two state solution after we are done with Hamas ?

How can anyone sanely answer that question without knowing what comes after Hamas? Do you remember what came before Hamas? Gaza could have easily been a state had any Palestinian leadership since 1947 accepted living in peace with Israel. To have peace, you probably need to do a number of things that require not only new leadership but 40-60 years of reeducation of the population. I don't see it happening unless it's a forced takeover and intensive re-education of the population. If the Palestinians were properly educated and grew up in an environment where they could see things for what they are, they would have rebelled and overthrown their leadership long ago. Instead, while their leadership enriches themselves at the expense of the population, they are able to effectively blame the Israelis for "genocide" of which they are themselves the architect, and get sheep with parrot-like qualities like you to echo that message. Therefore making peace impossible. It's a cycle of hate, perpetuated by the Palestinian leaders and perpetuated by you.

You don't even realize that you are a tool of the cyclical process of hate, who perpetuates this situation and PREVENTS peace, and your posts on this thread prove this. I already posted my position which is well stated by Professor Prager.

The Middle East Problem | PragerU

The Middle East conflict is framed as one of the most complex problems in the world. But, in reality, it's very simple. Israelis want to live in peace and…

www.prageru.com

 

[poupsy]

I definitly support the 2 state solution but you ‘ll find a lot more israelis than palestinian wanting a 2 state
The problem is that the palestinian leadership doesn’t want a 2 state they want it all from the river to the sea and this agenda has been pushed in youth arabs for decades since kidengarden.
There is no peace partner on the arab side. There has been and theù,re will be peace partner on the israeli side..Palestinians had many chances to have a land and accept some kind of compromise. Who wouldn’t after loosing wars you initiated??
It is NAIVE to think the settelemnts are the sole issue .. it is probably an solvable issue and it is clear now that it is not about land . It is about the total inability to accept a succesfull jewish state side by side a barbaric ideology backed up by iranians molahs.

Palestinian need to move away from this ideology and move foward. Many arab country are starting to understand that and are normalizing with israel.

 

[poupsy]

How about giving back the stolen land after having concluded the hamas eradication ?

In the past all arab states rejected wrongly Israel. This is the past.

Now they are establishing diplomatic ties and commercial partnerships.

Isn’t about time that israel change too?

Do you approve the right of the palestinian peeople to have a country ?

If you reject all UN resolutions regarding the conflict, you agree with me that ee should also reject all UN resolutions regarding what we call pariah states? Including North Korea, Iran and so on.

1) do you support the illegal settlements ?

2) Are you aware that the arab states lime Bahrein, UAE, Morocco etc normalized their diplomatic ties with Israel ? And that Saudi Arabia is in the process ?

What stolen land are you referring to exactly ? Can you specify??
If you refer to conquered land after winning a defensive war it is not stolen…
Sinai was returned to Egypt in exchange for peace
Gaza was handed with no condition…look what happened
Judea Samaria or Cis jordania was won in battle as so for Golan heights

You can’t initiate a war, loose it and say hold on ..””give me back my land and by the way I still want to kill you”” . Who are we kidding here??

 

[EagerBeaver]

You can’t initiate a war, loose it and say hold on ..””give me back my land and by the way I still want to kill you”” . Who are we kidding here??

It's pretty incredible, isn't it?

 

[poupsy]

It's pretty incredible, isn't it?

i think it is pretty obvious and mindblowing that people don't see that!

 

[silkandvelvet]

The USA need to help Israël now, it's its priority. forget about Ukraine, all media now focus on the middle east. War everywhere, the USA can not be the police everywhere in the world.

.....need to help Israël ....and ...forget about Ukraine..... You are saying the same think You know that Natanayu and Putin two criminal dictators. You like them ???

 

[poupsy]

.....need to help Israël ....and ...forget about Ukraine..... You are saying the same think You know that Natanayu and Putin two criminal dictators. You like them ???

Netanyahu with all his issues is a democraticly elected PM. Putin is not elected basically..
ukraine did not comit an oct 7 massacre to deserve this
how dare you compare???
How anyone can support hamas???
I wish for Palestinians to have a leader with a non barbaric vision
I bet you any Israeli leader will wage a similar war againts those barbaric terrorists

 

[silkandvelvet]

Netanyahu with all his issues is a democraticly elected PM. Putin is not elected basically..
ukraine did not comit an oct 7 massacre to deserve this
how dare you compare???
How anyone can support hamas???
I wish for Palestinians to have a leader with a non barbaric vision
I bet you any Israeli leader will wage a similar war againts those barbaric terrorists

Tell me Poopsy: Is orchestrate an Holaucost No 2 the right response to massacre ?? It is said eye for eye ...not 1000 eyes for on eye ........lolllllll

 

[EagerBeaver]

Tell me Poopsy: Is orchestrate an Holaucost No 2 the right response to massacre ?? It is said eye for eye ...not 1000 eyes for on eye ........lolllllll

The vast majority of those deaths are the responsibility of Hamas, which operates in civilian areas in a way to maximize civilian casualties. They simply don't give a shit, and view the dead as "martyrs" who have made "God (Allah) great." That would include you too if you happened to be in the line of fire. Their game plan is to draw fire and maximize casualties, and let Israel suffer the political fallout.

Shame on you for appeasing these terrorists who would take off your head in 2 seconds and not give a rat's ass about it.

 

[fin]

The vast majority of those deaths are the responsibility of Hamas, which operates in civilian areas in a way to maximize civilian casualties. They simply don't give a shit, and view the dead as "martyrs" who have made "God (Allah) great." That would include you too if you happened to be in the line of fire. Their game plan is to draw fire and maximize casualties, and let Israel suffer the political fallout.

Shame on you for appeasing these terrorists who would take off your head in 2 seconds and not give a rat's ass about it.

Those evil terrorists deserve a punishment but dont you think genocide is too much? Please tell me, how is it possible to become so bad? Are they different from us and it is in their blood? Or is it their religion? Or could it be that they had a kind of trauma in their past? What do you think made them what they are now? Help me understand please.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Those evil terrorists deserve a punishment but dont you think genocide is too much? Please tell me, how is it possible to become so bad? Are they different from us and it is in their blood? Or is it their religion? Or could it be that they had a kind of trauma in their past? What do you think made them what they are now? Help me understand please.

Do you also try to understand why the Nazis were the way they were, or develop theories about it? Are they any different from you? Or, what difference does it really make when their behavior has led to many deaths?

 

[Halloween Mike]

There is 1 Jewish country on this planet, ONE. There is how many Arab Countries? Why does the "Palestinians" want a country on their own? Not only is there many Arab/Islamic countries around Israel but on top of it, they could simply live in Israel like any normal citizens if they learned to behave properly. The issue is death and "martyrdom" is teach to them since birth. They are raise on hate and with a way of life to think its normal to kill peoples if they think different than them.

Lets say Israel eradicate completely Hamas and the Jihadist. Then they decide to let more liberties to the normal citizens and allow free movements etc? Guess what will happen? More weapons from Iran by way of Egypt or other places. More terror attacks. This is a deradicalization process that i don't even think is possible to do really...

In 45 what happened when Berlin was cornered? Hitler ended himself along some of his close collaborator because he couldn't handle defeat and capture, and then the rest of Nazi Germany surrendered. What Hitler had planted in the head of peoples was only done in a small ammount of years and Germany was able to let go the hate. And now it is illegal to flow a Nazi flag there. They are ashame of their past. But that was all political, not religious, and thats the nuance.

Hamas is in the same condition as Nazi Germany. The towns are destroy, their numbers have been decimated. Their leader hide in an underground bunker (but more elaborated). They know the longer they wait til surrender, their civilians will suffer. But they seem to count on it. Their only way to "win anything" is by the public opinion of ignorant peoples. Young "activists" who knows nothing about politics and have been raised on ultra wokeness.

In their mind their religion justify it and its fine to "martyrdom". I even saw a video of a person who said they would strap their baby to a rocket if it could end peoples in Israel. Thats some crazy thinking.

Honestly i have no solution in mind for Gaza or Lebanon/Hezbollah. Because how do you deradicalize an entire nation of religious fanatics?