Have the LE exterminated all the skum bags?

[J. Peterman]

This is a theory that a dancer at Chez Parre had. She told me that business is down by quite a bit in the last few years, because the skums of society are either behind bars, have restrictions placed on them when they leave incarceration not to be in contact with other skum bags or the opportunities that they have had in the past to make illegal money has all dried up.
Gone are the days of running booze and cigarettes across the border, and it seems that there are less drug users these days as there were years ago. Even the massage business is half way legitimized and accepted or at least tolerated by the LE.
What is your opinion, are there less skum bags, are there less opportunities to make ill gotten gains?

 

[J. Peterman]

A skum by another name would be as skummy!

Alwaysfresh:

Skumbags = Lowlifes that parasite off society and make money by illegal means. E.G. theft, extortion, pimping, traficking in drugs, selling of stolen goods, or traficking in contraband.

Big Cool Daddy,

It has been many years since I have taken the Metro or public transportion of any sort, so I have no idea of what is happening in the Metro system or in the est end of Montreal. I can only guess that the lowlifes of yesteryear have been replaced by the Bo-gars and Crips gangs ( and other simular vermin )
I have been told that the biker gangs are the suppliers of drugs to the lower level street gangs.

 

[Mike Mercury]

Wow. A theory espoused by a Chez Paré dancer must be up there with Darwin, Einstein and Sir Isaac Newton.

Maybe business is down for her because she is pushing 25 & is no longer the sexy little skank she was at 19. Turn up the lights and take a good look. YIKES.

But the issue at hand is skumbags or scumbags.

BDC has it right about Pie IX north of Cremazie and the Cloverdale area of Pierrefond. Cote des Neiges had the same thing happen there. Not to forget Hochelaga Maisonneuve where 50 year old hookers patrol the streets at 6 AM.

You have to rememember that Laval & Longueuil have slummified in some areas and are filled with tough guys.

So maybe the scum are spreading themselves thin. Perhaps that's why we call them scum.

 

[Ben Dover]

I guess it depends on your area... Look at the Plateau now compared with 10or even 5 years ago... Rents and taxes are up a lot, which has forced many undesiables to leave the area. Result: less graffiti and vandalism, less needles in the parks, less stolen cars, less beggars etc... Of course, these people did not evaporate into thin air... They just moved. If you live in one of their "new" neighborhoods, then I'm sorry for you

BD

 

[J. Peterman]

Where are the new skumtowns springing up?

I guess Montreal North can be considered a skum infested area. Where else in the Montreal area would you find skumola?

 

[Cosmo]

I live in west-island near Pierrefonds/Roxboro and at night you must be very careful near Gouin blvd.
Lots of street gangs,taxing ect..,
When these skum bags are alone by themseves usually they're not too brave,but in gangs....they become tough guys.

 

[J. Peterman]

These days it hard to get away with stuff.

With the high sophistication of electronic surveillance it is hard to get away with shit. I understand that years ago people like health inspectors, the guy that takes you on a driving test at the licence bureau, cops, and other assorted officials were on the take.
These days they can not take a chance on getting caught.


SERPICO,

I am giving her lessons, would you like the privilage of SLOPPY SECONDS?

 

[Techman]

I know a couple of club owners and they tell me that business has taken a nose dive since the no smoking law came into effect. Much higher turnover of customers and they don't stay very long. I spoke to a doorman when we went to Wanda's after the party and he told me it has been really tough since the law came in. It really has nothing to do with less lowlifes on the street. Besides, gangbangers tend not to hang out at downtown strip clubs.

 

[Montreal Moose]

Could be the currency exchange rate and people prefer contact dances.

MM

 

[joelcairo]

And there's a scumbag per cubic centimetre in Parliament.

 

[eastender]

Escums

This is a theory that a dancer at Chez Parre had. She told me that business is down by quite a bit in the last few years, because the skums of society are either behind bars, have restrictions placed on them when they leave incarceration not to be in contact with other skum bags or the opportunities that they have had in the past to make illegal money has all dried up.
Gone are the days of running booze and cigarettes across the border, and it seems that there are less drug users these days as there were years ago. Even the massage business is half way legitimized and accepted or at least tolerated by the LE.
What is your opinion, are there less skum bags, are there less opportunities to make ill gotten gains?

Actually the theory is laughably off base.Most of your "scum bags" are on the internet or into electronic crime.

A few examples - one of the oldtime dancers/hookers uses public access, marketing pornographic pictures of herself in her younger days.

The new generation of stick-up artists rarely do depanneurs - they prefer
ID theft.

The local fraud artists do not have to pass bad checks at a store across town - they can scam the whole world via eBay.

 

[eastender]

The East End

Are you kidding me? Maybe at the organized level of crime and that's a big maybe. I still see on the metro the red and blue of Haitian gangs and they seem to be spreading. Just 20yrs ago the East end was a safe place to be and was dominated by Italians, some Spanish, Croatians, Slovenians and other Europeans. Than St Michel started getting over run by Haitians who spread out eastwards to Montreal Nord and RDP. If that's not bad enough, now they have found their way down the Blue Metro line all the way to Parc Extension. Thanks to our wonderful immigration and refugee system they have now ghettoized areas in Pierrefonds, Carterville and Lachine. No sir, it's getting much worse and it's a matter of time before Montreal becomes another LA. Just replace Bloods with Bo-Gars and Crips with CDP.

BDC and others,

I have lived all my life in the east end - the home of the founding Hell's Angels,Richard Blass,Machine Gun Molly and many others.

Seriously doubt that you would know your way around the east end.

Your characterization is simply out of line.The strip razed along Notre Dame for the 1976 Olympics was alot worse than anything you see today.The many taverns and bars that were hot beds of criminal activity have long closed.

As for safety - the apartments below Industrial on Pie IX and a few blocks east were problematic before the first Haitians arrived.The area was never as bad as Walkley in NDG before the Russians arrived and cleaned it up.

The Violi brothers were all gunned down execution style in the seventies and the ethnic social clubs along in Rosemount/St.Michel/St.Leonard have been around going on three generations.

The situation from the mid 1990's into this decade with the biker wars had nothing to do with immigration,ethnics or any of the other factors you list.

The Spanish,Croatians,Slovenians never dominated the east end.Besides the Italians and Irish there are Polish and Ukrainian enclaves - between them featuring at least six churches and the same number of community centers.

Facts are rather useful at times.

 

[Mike Mercury]

Eastender.

What strip along Notre Dame street was razed for the 1976 Olympics?

The Olympics took over Morgan hill between Pie IX, Pierre des Coubertins (formerly Boyce), Viau & Sherbrooke and a section of the municipal golf course north of Sherbrooke between Viau & l'Assomption.

Perhaps you mean the area just west of Jacques Cartier bridge where Place Radio Canada now stands. That area was one of the worst slums in Canada, for all the world to see during Expo 67, until it was razed in the very late 60's early 70's. The people that lived there moved east along Notre Dame street all the way into Longue Pointe.
East end dives along Notre Dame street. O'Chalutier, Shed 25, Café de l'Est, Joes.

 

[eastender]

Notre Dame

Eastender.

What strip along Notre Dame street was razed for the 1976 Olympics?

The Olympics took over Morgan hill between Pie IX, Pierre des Coubertins (formerly Boyce), Viau & Sherbrooke and a section of the municipal golf course north of Sherbrooke between Viau & l'Assomption.

Perhaps you mean the area just west of Jacques Cartier bridge where Place Radio Canada now stands. That area was one of the worst slums in Canada, for all the world to see during Expo 67, until it was razed in the very late 60's early 70's. The people that lived there moved east along Notre Dame street all the way into Longue Pointe.
East end dives along Notre Dame street. O'Chalutier, Shed 25, Café de l'Est, Joes.

The north side of Notre Dame from the tracks where Ste Catharine curves into Notre Dame to the train tracks just west of Moreau was all residential(slums)/semi commercial.All the small side streets like Desjardins,LaSalle,Letourneaux etc used to exit onto Notre Dame.That green space on the north side of Notre Dame was occupied at one point by slum housing,small businesses and bars that catered to the ships.

I played football at Champetre Park most of the 1960's so I know.Morgan Hill
ran from Sherbrooke down to Boyce - now Pierre de Cubertain,and the Soapbox Derby used to be held there annually.

 

[eastender]

East End

Eastender:
Where do you mean east end. Many call everything past Papineu the east end which is a large area. Personally I'm talking about the area north of Beabien, East of Papaineau which have become very bad areas. I went to school there a bit, know people from the area and have gone through there. Even the papers talk about the Bo-Gars and Crack Down Posse (Red and Blue) has being the largest street gangs (most visible to the general public) and areas like St Michael, Pie-IX Street, Montreal Nord and RDP has having strips of gang havens there. Just go to St Michael Metro and you'll see the gang bangers especially when school is let out.

I never said Croatians and Slovenians were dominant, just the most well know groups there in particular where there are many Italians like close to the St Leonard area and along Jen Talon Street. The Croats and Slovenians are small in numbers so you'll tens to see them in Italian, Polish and Ukrainian areas. There's even a street called Ukraine not too far from Beabien and St Michael and Spanish I'm talking about are Latinos along Jean Talon. Now there are Algerian stores on Jean Talon dominating between St Michael and Pi IX and a major Asian set of stores on Jarry just east of Pie IX.

Sorry to offend you but the areas north of Jean Talon are particularly among the worse especially where the apartments are like Pelletier Street in Montreal Nord. I even have a friend who lives in RDP who's afraid of going by Bombardier Street at night because of the red gang (Bo-Gars).

By the way I'm not sure of your nationality, but I don't think all balcks or Hatians are criminals as many are great and decent people, but street gangs are predominitly coming from these groups. Sorry but these are the facts.

BDC,
The definition of east end Montreal is very simple - east of St.Laurent Blvd.The civic numbers start at this point running from 1 onward east and west.I've lived in the east end since my birth in 1952 - there was a brothel down the block.So going to school for a bit and defining the east end to fit your limited perspective does not cut it.

I'm at the St.Michel metro about four days of the week,anytime from 7am to midnight and frankly you do not have a clue.The station easily services a dozen high schools and for the amount of teenage traffic the trouble is negligible.The gang fights were worse in the in the fifties/sixties/seventies but they were not mediatized.

Used to provide security for the elderly from my ethnic group to churches and community centers from the Prefontaine and Frontenac metro stations.Never had to do it from the St.Michel metro.The basic problem was and still is the druggies who will mug the frail and the weak.

Your demographic description of Jean Talon is very superficial as it fails to consider that most of the business owners live far away from the area.Lida and John Scotti and all the Italian businesses on Jarry mingled with the Quebecois do not have the flash of Phat but they generate the dollars.The small asian stores are landing points for immigrants.By non-Asian standards they are not worth owning but they are sold over and over again to other Asian immigrants who qualify for an investment visa.

Your facts about street gangs omit the punks and all the other white groups
that you can find in Hochelaga / Maisonneuve / Ville Marie etc.

 

[eastender]

Get REal

The problem is that the police and the news make the same statements about the Bo-Gars and Crack Down Posse being the biggest and most violent of gangs in Montreal. They base themselves on the Bloods and Crips of LA and I use to take the 67 Route often as I use to see an SP close to that area and constantly seen gang bangers on the bus and St Michael Metro. It was so bad that many I knew refused to pass through that metro and I always had my guard up every time just in case as I have caught them eyeing me like a piece of meat on a few occasions. Personally I feel much safer at Prefontain and Frontanac Metros as people there virtually ignored me.



Yes this statement is true but it's like comparing a few bees here and there versus a deadly swarm. In St Michael you see huge gangs displaying their colors while I've never seen this in the white areas you have mentioned. While these areas are not great they are still safer than St Michael, Montreal Nord and RDP. As a matter of fact the Journal De Montreal had a big thing on this about 2 years ago.

The police are just interested in their budgets.

The Hell's Angels no longer wear their colours in public and neither do the feeder gangs,strikers,etc.I guess the spiked hair,shell casings and other styles of dress favoured by the punks are not visible to those that are colour oriented.

Your data fails to take into account the murder rate in the various arrondissements or the various drug related deaths and related problems.

 

[J. Peterman]

The dancer at Chez Parre told me that in the past, skumbag lower level biker types would show up with wads of bills ( $500 - $800 - $1000 )and plop them on the table and take dances till the money ran out.
These same skum bags are either been incarcerated, or after incarceration been restricted from being in strip clubs and know hang outs of criminals and/or restricted from any association with convicted skumbags.

 

[eastender]

Punks,skinheads,etc.

As for these other gangs, please explain why they have not been profiled. Who besides yourself have heard of the strikers and these other gangs you are talking about? But the largest street gangs that are most visible are the Go-Bars (Red), Crack Down Posse (Blue), Punto Nigro 67, Latino Kings, Jamaican Posse, Burgundies Most Wanted and the most well known white gang located primarily in Verdun, Pointe St Charles and LaSalle, Crazy Ass Delinquents. As for the punks you mentioned most I've see were squggy kids. None has ever eyed me down like they were looking for their next victim like these well known gangs. Also it's unfair to include groups like the Hells Angels and the Mafioso since they tend to keep low profiles, not hang in metro, are no flamboyant about displaying gang colors, tattoos, etc and are not bothering people on the metro. There's a world of difference between street level gangs and organized gangs. As for drug deaths, I could care less if two low lifes kill each other over selling territory or if some junkie has an overdose. It does not bother me, but being jumped when I was 16yrs for my money, being harassed at high school and being held up at gun point when I was 19yrs did bother me and it was hard to ignore the color each time.

The punks,skinheads who killed a man at the bar corner 9th and Belanger don't count??? You are out of your element.

I have helped coach football in the east end and contributed at over twenty youth community centers in the east end and sud ouest in the last twelve years.The locals know what's what.Don't need your version.

 

[eastender]

True enough

The LE would love to have flamboyant gangesters reach the top. They are so easy to manage.

Very true - easy to track and their visibility makes budget funding easier.

Rumour has it that an all dressed pizza may be a delusion.

 

[eastender]

East End Realities

Also lets not forget the drive by shootings on St Michael and Robert (Blues VS Reds), the drive by shooting on Pelletier Street in Montreal Nord (Blues VS Reds), the old lady that was beaten and mugged close to Pelletier Street by Haitian gangs, the drive bys on Pie IX (Blues VS Reds) and those wonderful gangsta rap videos on Music Plus featuring the Bo-Gars or CDP depending on the rapper.

By the way I never said skin heads were not a problem, but their numbers fail compared to the Haitian gangs. But if there's a doubt I wouldn't mind taking a day and count the number of gang bangers VS the number of skin heads and punks. If I lose the challenge than I would be man enough to admit that I'm wrong.

In addition to clarify, I don’t think all Haitians or blacks are gang bangers, just the most prominent and largest.

BDC,
Hate to tell you this but drive by shootings were a fact of life before the first
gangbangers appeared in Montreal.

Unfortunately the elderly and infirm get mugged by druggies regularly in various parts of Montreal.They are also victims of break-ins.This does not get the media attention it should.Druggies harm alot more people than themselves.

The gangsta rap videos are just that - no real connection to what is happening.Just like cartoons.

I used some east end expressions and terms that you did not pick-up on.
Just a way of filtering those who know the area from the talkers and know nothings.

Basically the various white youth gangs in the east end and elsewhere in Montreal rarely have formal names - the bikers in the late sixties and seventies changed that but even they are changing to counter anti-gang legislation.

From an early age the white gangs learn to be discrete.In this regard they imitate most of the older gangs or alliances.If others prefer names or colours that attract attention that is their choice.Let them get the media attention.

You may remember a few years ago - received a lot of play in the JDM,
an underage white kid from one of the white east end gangs almost tookout straight-up an adult biker when he tried to intervene in a youth gang dispute.Happened in the Iberville/Rachel area.Cops never caught the kid - he is still alive and no gangs were identified by name/colours/area.

Puzzled - why do you assume that gang members would stand by idly and let themselves be counted or would identify themselves to whoever would want to do such a study? What is your point - that a person is less dead/mugged/robbed if confronted by three than if confronted by ten or some other ratio?