You might want to check this article on the Giambi subject - SI Article - looks like the Yankees will be unable to do anything. That's just terrible. 
I hate the Yankees
- Thread starter willyapd
- Start date
Speculation
Sugarloafer,
Not correct. Read this:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1936931
I think Verducci is speculating a little bit in his article. He is not an attorney and does not have a feeling for what is at stake. The Yankees may also get help from the Commissioner in the form of a suspension. Verducci does not address this possibility.
Sugarloafer,
Not correct. Read this:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1936931
I think Verducci is speculating a little bit in his article. He is not an attorney and does not have a feeling for what is at stake. The Yankees may also get help from the Commissioner in the form of a suspension. Verducci does not address this possibility.
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You all sound like offended nuns !
At these level of competition (major pro sports, Olympics or wotld class competitions), everyone does everything he can to offer the best performance, would it be training, taking drug, and sometime even cheating (how many pitcher got caught ? how many got away with this?).
Sprinters, cyclists, Football players, baseball players etc., every one that has put so much time and effort to achieve this level of play will do whatever he can to better himself. But you sound like everyone could be as good as Bonds only by taking steroids. Well, it's not that simple. Bonds may take steroids, but he is so much better than anyone else (those taking steroids or not) that I hope he reaches 715, then 756 because he is clearly the best hitter I saw in my life and if there is one comparable in history, it's the Babe.
But they didn't quite lead the same life.
Stop being so outraged by what you hear and what you know, this is the tiny point of the iceberg.
At these level of competition (major pro sports, Olympics or wotld class competitions), everyone does everything he can to offer the best performance, would it be training, taking drug, and sometime even cheating (how many pitcher got caught ? how many got away with this?).
Sprinters, cyclists, Football players, baseball players etc., every one that has put so much time and effort to achieve this level of play will do whatever he can to better himself. But you sound like everyone could be as good as Bonds only by taking steroids. Well, it's not that simple. Bonds may take steroids, but he is so much better than anyone else (those taking steroids or not) that I hope he reaches 715, then 756 because he is clearly the best hitter I saw in my life and if there is one comparable in history, it's the Babe.
But they didn't quite lead the same life.
Stop being so outraged by what you hear and what you know, this is the tiny point of the iceberg.
regnad said:
But the Yankees can, and this is where the Yankees can nail Giambi because he misrepresented himself. He came to the Yankees a steroid user. This was a misrepresentation in and of itself.
As to due process and immunity, the grant of immunity is against criminal prosecution. There is no such thing as a grant of immunity in a civil action for breach of contract. In a civil action a prior statement under oath is exactly that: a prior statement that can be used to impeach Giambi's credibility if he attempts to testify in the civil action in an inconsistent manner.
BTW Regna D, it is a good thing you are in Vermont because it is a violation of Connecticut law for one to render legal advice without a license to practice law.
Now, as to Bonds: no asterisk. Pay attention fellas, ask any scout, the secret to Bonds' talent is his pitch recognition. The scouts all say that there has never been a player better able to recognize pitches than Bonds. Last time I checked, steroids does not help your eyesight. Also, a lot of the knuckleheaded Bonds critics forget that he won 3 MVP awards way before he ever souped up his body, back in 1990, 1992, and 1993. Bonds is a master technician, a master craftsman, much like Gretzky was in hockey. Gretzky would have been good whether he souped up his body or stayed the same. Same with Bonds.
Void The Contracts
If the Yankees can void the Giambi contract, they can eat the others. Giambi misrepresented himself to the Yankees as a clean major leaguer. It doesn't matter that the testimony is sealed. The Yankees simply say to Giambi's attorney, "your client lied to us. He never told us he was using illegal drugs. We were induced under false pretenses to enter the contract."
The likelihood is that there will be some settlement where Giambi is cut loose and the Yankees eat half the contract. The other half saved will be used to subsidize a new deal with Delgado.
If the Yankees can void the Giambi contract, they can eat the others. Giambi misrepresented himself to the Yankees as a clean major leaguer. It doesn't matter that the testimony is sealed. The Yankees simply say to Giambi's attorney, "your client lied to us. He never told us he was using illegal drugs. We were induced under false pretenses to enter the contract."
The likelihood is that there will be some settlement where Giambi is cut loose and the Yankees eat half the contract. The other half saved will be used to subsidize a new deal with Delgado.
EagerBeaver said:
He might end up in Seattle instead, which is good news I guess for the Red Sox Nation, better to see Delgado in the AL West than in Yankee pinstripes ?
What is Delgado lifetime vs. Red Sox pitching ??
I would think pitching would be a bigger priority for the Yankees than signing another big name expensive slugger ??
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/201207_mari26.html
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002091875_mari16.html
EagerBeaver said:
Well, Bonds now has admitted using performance-enhancing substances:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6642400/
Mischaracterization
Using a rubbing balm for arthritis is not "performance enhancement." What is going on here in this thread is a lot of spinning of admissions. It is one thing to admit to using substances and another thing to admit that the substances used were for the purpose of enhancing performance illegally. There is no indication that Bonds has admitted to the latter, although sadly there is now evidence that Marion Jones ran in the 2000 Olympics while juiced:
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=1937513
One should note that Conte is unable to say the same things about Bonds. One would think if Bonds knowingly used steroids, there would be evidence of same put forth. No such evidence has been put forth. ln fact Conte, who is the principal, states unequivocally he and Bonds never even discussed performance enhancing drugs.
Bonds is clean until proven otherwise. Leave him alone!
Using a rubbing balm for arthritis is not "performance enhancement." What is going on here in this thread is a lot of spinning of admissions. It is one thing to admit to using substances and another thing to admit that the substances used were for the purpose of enhancing performance illegally. There is no indication that Bonds has admitted to the latter, although sadly there is now evidence that Marion Jones ran in the 2000 Olympics while juiced:
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=1937513
One should note that Conte is unable to say the same things about Bonds. One would think if Bonds knowingly used steroids, there would be evidence of same put forth. No such evidence has been put forth. ln fact Conte, who is the principal, states unequivocally he and Bonds never even discussed performance enhancing drugs.
Bonds is clean until proven otherwise. Leave him alone!
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The gel was sent to Bonds in a flaxseed oil container. Why did he think they were putting the stuff in a flaxseed oil container, if it wasn't illegal. Obviously, he knew it wasn't flaxseed oil. Besides, Bonds started taken the steroids in 2000, look at the massive and abnormal changes in his physique. His helmet size has has also increased. He may never admit to it, but everyone knows it.
daydreamer41 said:
Daydreamer, I suggest you edit or delete your post with the unnecessary name calling in it. Regnad was correct in what he posted as "substance abuse"!
EagerBeaver said:
EB,
I can't take this ludicrous folly any more! You've come to the point of disgusting me on this matter with your utter and complete naivete. It's become nauseating to see you defend Bonds. The evidence is right in front of your face, just believe it and let it go!
SK
I'd Get Bonds Acquitted
My last word on the subject is this: I am not a criminal attorney, but based on the evidence I have heard, if Bonds were criminally charged with knowingly using performance enhancing substances, I could go into any Court anywhere right now and draw an acquittal even with SK on the jury.
Bonds' own attorney had a press conference this afternoon in which he vigorously denied that Bonds had any knowledge that what he was given was other than flaxseed oil and arthritis balm. Bonds has denied ever injecting himself with anything.
Although I acknowledge that Bonds' body is souped up, big time, from what it was 5-6 years ago, I am still stuck on him not showing any of the traditional side effects of steroid abusers, as has been seen with the demise of Giambi, McGwire, Caminit, Canseco and guys like that who all had similiar types of injuries and ailments that derailed them.
My last word on the subject is this: I am not a criminal attorney, but based on the evidence I have heard, if Bonds were criminally charged with knowingly using performance enhancing substances, I could go into any Court anywhere right now and draw an acquittal even with SK on the jury.
Bonds' own attorney had a press conference this afternoon in which he vigorously denied that Bonds had any knowledge that what he was given was other than flaxseed oil and arthritis balm. Bonds has denied ever injecting himself with anything.
Although I acknowledge that Bonds' body is souped up, big time, from what it was 5-6 years ago, I am still stuck on him not showing any of the traditional side effects of steroid abusers, as has been seen with the demise of Giambi, McGwire, Caminit, Canseco and guys like that who all had similiar types of injuries and ailments that derailed them.
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Special K said:
Hey Special K, there is a HUGE difference between alcohol and steriods. Steriods enhance a player's performance, and alcohol would do the opposite. No, I will not edit my comment. I am not happy with Giambi taking steriods and I really think Bonds should resign and his run at Ruth's and Aaron's record should be stricken. Regnad crossed the line. Comparing Bonds and Giambi to Ruth is a low blow. Bonds is no where in the category of Ruth and Aaron. Bonds is blown up muscle head who is naturally a skinny little runt. Without steriods, the guy would have been lucky to get 400 home runs.
Bonds testimony
Here is an excerpt of what Bonds actually said before the Grand Jury which I got from an article on ESPN.com:
Bonds said that, to his knowledge, Anderson had only given him legal drugs to treat his arthritis and fatigue, which were especially bad when the Giants would play a day game after a night game. He said the trainer brought the substances to the Giants' clubhouse, where Bonds would use them.
"It was in the ballpark ... in front of everybody," Bonds testified. "I mean, all the reporters, my teammates. I mean, they all saw it. I didn't hide it."
However, Bonds testified that the products didn't help ease his suffering, and eventually he stopped using them.
"And I was like, to me, it didn't even work," he said. "You know me, I'm 39 years old. I'm dealing with pain. All I want is pain relief, you know? And you know, to recover, you know, night games to day games. That's it. And I didn't think the stuff worked. I was like, 'Dude, whatever,' but he was my friend.
"... If it's a steroid, it's not working," he told the grand jury.
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As a matter of interest, I agree with RegnaD that it is questionable how much these drugs actually enhance performance. Bonds last year cut his strikeouts in half from the prior year (and I believe established a career low) and anyone who tells me cutting down strikeouts is due to steroids is FULL OF SHIT, does not know the game of baseball and has never played it.
Here is an excerpt of what Bonds actually said before the Grand Jury which I got from an article on ESPN.com:
Bonds said that, to his knowledge, Anderson had only given him legal drugs to treat his arthritis and fatigue, which were especially bad when the Giants would play a day game after a night game. He said the trainer brought the substances to the Giants' clubhouse, where Bonds would use them.
"It was in the ballpark ... in front of everybody," Bonds testified. "I mean, all the reporters, my teammates. I mean, they all saw it. I didn't hide it."
However, Bonds testified that the products didn't help ease his suffering, and eventually he stopped using them.
"And I was like, to me, it didn't even work," he said. "You know me, I'm 39 years old. I'm dealing with pain. All I want is pain relief, you know? And you know, to recover, you know, night games to day games. That's it. And I didn't think the stuff worked. I was like, 'Dude, whatever,' but he was my friend.
"... If it's a steroid, it's not working," he told the grand jury.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a matter of interest, I agree with RegnaD that it is questionable how much these drugs actually enhance performance. Bonds last year cut his strikeouts in half from the prior year (and I believe established a career low) and anyone who tells me cutting down strikeouts is due to steroids is FULL OF SHIT, does not know the game of baseball and has never played it.
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EagerBeaver said:
If an attorney said this, well, it surely must be true!
Bonds denied all of this?? I'm shocked!!
Strange...Giambi (and sprinter Marion Jones) also once flately denied ever using steroids. EagerBeaver said:
Just saw clips of a younger Bonds on TSN. He looked like Dr. David Banner, and today's Bonds looks like his alter-ego, the Incredible Hulk. His head has gotten huge!!! Put his head on the younger Bonds' body, and you'd wind up with one of these bobble heads!!
By the way, Caminity's downfall wasn't due to steroids, but mostly to a severe addiction to Cocaine.
Tonight, don't miss ABC's 20-20 at 10pm. The head of the BALCO lab will be interviewed and will be spilling major beans.
regnad said:
I remember a gym teacher in high school telling me that strength was a major contributor in hitting a baseball for distance. In high school, I lifted weights and was able to lift 1 and 2/3 times my weight. I didn't take steriods, that is for sure. But steriods does enhance muscle growth and probably the ability to swing the bat.
Ruth was a great hitter. The foul pole in right was 295 ft. but right field to Right Center was a steep 429 Ft. Left field pole was 291 and shot out to 395 ft to 460 ft. in left center. Ruth was not able to pull the ball constantly down the line to the pole, no one could. Regnad observation is nonsense. Ruth hit towering home runs. Ask some old timers. My father saw Ruth hit his last 3 homers in his last game. One left the ball park over the grand stand (Forbes field).
Ruth
I saw one of the old Negro League players interviewed on ESPN some years ago and he said that on the barnstorming tours Ruth hit some mammoth blasts against the Negro League teams. He also said Josh Gibson hit some tape measure blasts and it has been reported that Gibson hit a ball out of the old Yankee Stadium, to left field.
I saw one of the old Negro League players interviewed on ESPN some years ago and he said that on the barnstorming tours Ruth hit some mammoth blasts against the Negro League teams. He also said Josh Gibson hit some tape measure blasts and it has been reported that Gibson hit a ball out of the old Yankee Stadium, to left field.
regnad said:
I guess we should, therefore, feel some kind of kinship with 25% of professional athletes, such as NHL players, MLB players, NFL players, professional wrestlers, pro boxers, and the biggest hobbyists of them all, NBA players, where i'll bet 50% of them are hobbyists!
