So next time you buy a coffee you're perfectly fine being served a cup of used motor oil because the barrista thinks it looks like coffee?
Is it me or PSE/GFE means nothing these days?
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So next time you buy a coffee you're perfectly fine being served a cup of used motor oil because the barrista thinks it looks like coffee?
Because with time the service categories appear to have narrowed down to two, I think now GFE only means "Not PSE" (since the latter provides a clearer interpretation of what’s included).
I think you missed what I was saying. If GFE is motor oil then yes, I'm fine getting motor oil. If GFE is coffee then I'm fine getting coffee. If GFE is coffee then I'm not fine getting motor oil. So, let's assume that GFE = Coffee. Is there good coffee and bad coffee? Sure. But GFE always means coffee so you get what you ask for as far as the product goes. Whether you enjoy your coffee or not depends on the quality, not the definition. Nowadays if you you are looking for coffee there are SPs offering you fruit juice even though they advertised coffee. It doesn't matter if you like fruit juice or not. It's not coffee, hence not GFE.
This analogy is making me tired. It's simple. GFE is GFE, which simply put historically means DFK and BBBJ. That's it. Nothing else. If you offer anything else then that's fine, but it's not GFE, it's in addition to GFE. The very best, and most charitable way you can describe it now is that the definition is changing, but if it is then it still means something specific if you're advertising it as such in a market that has specific expectations. That is simply not happening here. .
I know it's working out that way, but that's simply not good enough. Under that definiton nude bungee jumping would be a legit GFE service offering. I always wonder how the bustier women do that, actually. lol.
It certainly is enough for 99,9% of my clientele. GFE or PSE, it gives them an idea of our vibe. I know we tend to keep things the way we know them, we're often resistant to change as it feels safer; but 2002 is long gone and only a handful of people care.
I'm going to push back on this, because from the guy standpoint it's not true, or at least it may only locally be true. Guys adapt, and make allowances for the changes here, but they don't like them and they don't like the uncertainty of having to ask what everything is all the time, and while it may be true of your vibe, it's a flat out lie for many SPs out there. Maybe even most of them locally. The guys accept it, because it is what it is, and they have to live with it, but they don't like it. At least the experienced guys don't. I always have to also try to make the distinction between what my experience is here locally vs. what it is elsewhere. It's not a Montreal only term, and elsewhere ( compared to Montreal a lot, the rest of Canada varies) it's still a lot closer to the original definition than it is here. That's the consistency issue, and it may apply to some clients here who aren't exclusive to Montreal because expectations vary. TBH, in a lot of places if you have to actually tell people that you offer GFE then it's not something you really offer, because that's the default setting for everyone (P.I. or Cuba for example) without having to say a word. That's the basis for comparison for people who travel. This is not a 2002 thing. This is a cultural thing.
Anyway, I'm getting long past the point of being tiresome and pedantic on the subject, and I apologize. This is a button to push with me because I like GFE and I get really frustrated with the local approach to the subject. It's probably my #1 bitch with the local scene.
(I started this before @urquell posted his response, which I basically agree with.)
As I wrote earlier, part of the issue here is that some veteran clients miss the old days. We can care or not. But the bigger issue remains: if SPs are going to advertise as offering "GFE," that term needs to mean *something.* Contrasting it only with PSE is meaningless, since almost all sex work is not PSE. A handjob behind the mall would be GFE by that definition. And I do think it's reasonable for prospective clients to know what to expect from a date. In fact, that's one of my bottom lines when I plan a session: I don't like surprises of any kind. (Also: your ads are hugely appealing ... but I don't see you using the term GFE. Perhaps I'm missing it.)
I'll add that I'm mostly just typing here. I'm interested in this stuff but I'm not interested in arguing with anyone!
It’s harder now to find gems that are worth seeing. All these abbreviated acronyms were supposed to give an idea of basic expectations. Now you go to an appointment looking for a great time but end up having all the time taken from talking / pleasantries / just basic time wasting it’s become tough. Enough to chase other excitement in life. It’s not that complicated. We’re looking for a good time, if not find something else to do.
Unfortunately there is no way to know how each and every SP defines GFE and PSE. In a perfect world it would be clear.
I met an SP years ago who (IMHO) was pure GFE but because she was an excellent dirty talker she fashioned herself as PSE.
Its her definition..... who's to argue.
People can't even properly define what a woman is today. GFE & PSE... LOL
I met an SP years ago who (IMHO) was pure GFE but because she was an excellent dirty talker she fashioned herself as PSE.
Its her definition..... who's to argue.
People can't even properly define what a woman is today. GFE & PSE... LOL
It certainly doesn't mean anything if it's never intended to be offered in the first place. It really is marketing. Same goes with the service. So many can't even bother to turn on the lights, space out their visits, have a clean place, forget getting a kiss or feeling like a lover.
What's also crazy is how not even rates alter that. You can once in a while find low end good service and often times high end bad service.
The agencies use fake ages, fake weights...
What's also crazy is how not even rates alter that. You can once in a while find low end good service and often times high end bad service.
The agencies use fake ages, fake weights...
In my mind and my experiences of the past (find it funny seeing me as a veteran nowadays)
Offering Full Service / Service Complet : This to feel very transactional as a listing and i expect once im there only thing i can expect is a CBJ and sex, in a very transactional way. I saw a movie when i was a kid (don't remember the title) but the guy was with an escort and they arrive in the room, she undress and she says "en piste" (lets get started) and its super like "i have a job to do, lets go"
All Safe Services : Something close to a GFE in term of experience/atmosphere, but no kissing, cbj only...
Safe GFE : Usually this mean CBJ and either no DATY or covered DATY (its a thing apparently), but kissing is still allow
GFE : BBBJ, DATY, Kissing / An experience close to what would it be if you were with a girlfriend or a one night stand. Its not transactional, there is some "warm" (ambiance chaleureuse) etc
GFE+ : All the above of GFE but cim possible either included or as an extra
GFE++ : Swallow is added
PSE : This one is trickier. It usually mean more wild sex, closer to what you would see in a porno, but it can also mean in term of sexual acts either COF or Greek. Usually tough they say "PSE Greek" when its Anal.
Now thats just my interpretation and what i THINK PERSONALLY should be the language used.
As for the point of the OP, i feel its tricky on this too. I think the peek was probably 2011-2013 (but keep in mind i started in 2009 so maybe i was still too green in my "rookie year" to tap full potential). So much agencies with pretty big rosters, still great prices, many GFE+ all included depending on agencies. Then things evolved but at the same time, can't say the market is "bad" these days either. There is still a decent share of big agencies with numerous talents, and some are truly superstars that would have nothing to envy to the 2011-2013 rosters. At 260-280 i think it is still fair price considering monstruous inflation in life. I think agencies show more consistencies these days too when it comes to cancellations (or lack of), appointement time and providers attitude.
Where i think the market took a bit of a dive, and i am really sorry to say it, i don't want to offend anyone, its in the indy market. Its not everyone of course, still plenty of great indy providers, but its not rare to see providers in the 600-700 range for base GFE, booking is often harder for clients too (screenings, deposits, providing a lot of infos). Online/technology has made this business great during the 2010s but it then made it harsher when the technology truly developed. If you would go back in time and tell 2012 me to have a booking i would need to send money by email, send a picture of me or even my infos like gov issue ID, i would had laugh at you. All you had to do was bring good ol cash and pay.
So is it better or is it worst? I dunno. Im not the best to judge as i book too rarely vs the high rollers of this forum. There is both improvements and downgrades to me.
Offering Full Service / Service Complet : This to feel very transactional as a listing and i expect once im there only thing i can expect is a CBJ and sex, in a very transactional way. I saw a movie when i was a kid (don't remember the title) but the guy was with an escort and they arrive in the room, she undress and she says "en piste" (lets get started) and its super like "i have a job to do, lets go"
All Safe Services : Something close to a GFE in term of experience/atmosphere, but no kissing, cbj only...
Safe GFE : Usually this mean CBJ and either no DATY or covered DATY (its a thing apparently), but kissing is still allow
GFE : BBBJ, DATY, Kissing / An experience close to what would it be if you were with a girlfriend or a one night stand. Its not transactional, there is some "warm" (ambiance chaleureuse) etc
GFE+ : All the above of GFE but cim possible either included or as an extra
GFE++ : Swallow is added
PSE : This one is trickier. It usually mean more wild sex, closer to what you would see in a porno, but it can also mean in term of sexual acts either COF or Greek. Usually tough they say "PSE Greek" when its Anal.
Now thats just my interpretation and what i THINK PERSONALLY should be the language used.
As for the point of the OP, i feel its tricky on this too. I think the peek was probably 2011-2013 (but keep in mind i started in 2009 so maybe i was still too green in my "rookie year" to tap full potential). So much agencies with pretty big rosters, still great prices, many GFE+ all included depending on agencies. Then things evolved but at the same time, can't say the market is "bad" these days either. There is still a decent share of big agencies with numerous talents, and some are truly superstars that would have nothing to envy to the 2011-2013 rosters. At 260-280 i think it is still fair price considering monstruous inflation in life. I think agencies show more consistencies these days too when it comes to cancellations (or lack of), appointement time and providers attitude.
Where i think the market took a bit of a dive, and i am really sorry to say it, i don't want to offend anyone, its in the indy market. Its not everyone of course, still plenty of great indy providers, but its not rare to see providers in the 600-700 range for base GFE, booking is often harder for clients too (screenings, deposits, providing a lot of infos). Online/technology has made this business great during the 2010s but it then made it harsher when the technology truly developed. If you would go back in time and tell 2012 me to have a booking i would need to send money by email, send a picture of me or even my infos like gov issue ID, i would had laugh at you. All you had to do was bring good ol cash and pay.
So is it better or is it worst? I dunno. Im not the best to judge as i book too rarely vs the high rollers of this forum. There is both improvements and downgrades to me.
at the in calls it's only like 10-15 minutes between clients. rapid conveyor belt revolving door.
definitely can have an impact on the service, especially later in the shift
definitely can have an impact on the service, especially later in the shift
This started when OnlyFans got popular and mainstream. There are many other online platforms offering similar types of service where clients can actively interact with the content creator. A regular stripper named PinkyDoll who I used to see at Doric when covid happened everything changed. She migrated to OFs and then social media. Girls making good money posting videos, they get paid. I also noticed a big jump in Indys. A lot of these girls got other sources of income so they are less motivated to provide GFE as it is supposed to be and rates went sky high. For sure it is for the worse now. I do not see myself doing anymore bookings going forward, seems like a big money pit to me. To each their own.
Yep. That is how they are able to provide a lower priced service and also they got to make up for the monthly costs for the incalls.
I tend to agree. I used to see girls from Indy companions all the time when I was living out west and visiting here. Now that I'm back living here again I don't have to use indies or agencies anymore but I have looked at the offerings and it absolutely blows my mind what some of the girls on there are asking for now compared to when I was using the service, and that wasn't that long ago. As you say, it just strikes me as a black hole for cash and it truly surprises me that the market is eager enough to support it. Again, as you say, to each their own.
One thing i’ve learned over the years is to take such terminology or descriptions with a grain of salt. Often the descriptions aren’t necessarily meant on purpose. It often depends who posted it. It can be very subjective. An agency owner might not have the same impression as others. For him or her a pse may seem to be the same as how others might see as a gfe. Sometimes when they hire someone new the girl might tell them that she’s pse when she’s actually more like gfe. As it happened to me very often they might call the client who has just seen a new girl & get their feedback & each client often has a different impression. Some guys may ne extremely easy to impress as others are. “Omg! She was great! I could fall in love with her! I forgot it was a business transaction! This girl is definitely pse!” In other words people tend to bullshit but sometimes it’s not intentional & simply part of their personality. I’ve even met ladies who were full blown pse but were listed as gfe & when questioned about it the girls were shocked when i’d tell them they were actually pse as opposed to gfe. Some were even offended when i told them this.
It’s true that the descriptions used don’t mean much these days because they’ve been abused over time & people havecaught on to this practice. One thing that annoys me is to see a girl being described as a ‘spinner’ when she could be 5’8 & 140 lbs. I’ve seen this description abused so much that it no longer means anything. I think many bookers didn’t know the true meaning of ‘spinner’ and thought it was just some english word used to describe someone as pretty, cute or attractive. Or maybe in some cases it was intentional. Another one that irritates me is when some agencies get a reputation of exaggerating & often claim in their descriptions that an sp is a debutante (first steps in the biz) when it’s blatantly false. Some girls i’ve met who still had this description in their profile had been in the biz for at least a couple of years & more often than not were several years older than their posted age. I remember a time when one girl was posted as being 21 for like 3-4 years! Then guys would see them thinking they were meeting a 21 yr old only to find out she looked older (and sometimes heavier) and the girl would admit that she was closer to 30! This is blatant false advertising & not only does it hurt any agency’s reputation it also hurts the girls & eventually the clients get weary & start looking elsewhere!
It’s true that the descriptions used don’t mean much these days because they’ve been abused over time & people havecaught on to this practice. One thing that annoys me is to see a girl being described as a ‘spinner’ when she could be 5’8 & 140 lbs. I’ve seen this description abused so much that it no longer means anything. I think many bookers didn’t know the true meaning of ‘spinner’ and thought it was just some english word used to describe someone as pretty, cute or attractive. Or maybe in some cases it was intentional. Another one that irritates me is when some agencies get a reputation of exaggerating & often claim in their descriptions that an sp is a debutante (first steps in the biz) when it’s blatantly false. Some girls i’ve met who still had this description in their profile had been in the biz for at least a couple of years & more often than not were several years older than their posted age. I remember a time when one girl was posted as being 21 for like 3-4 years! Then guys would see them thinking they were meeting a 21 yr old only to find out she looked older (and sometimes heavier) and the girl would admit that she was closer to 30! This is blatant false advertising & not only does it hurt any agency’s reputation it also hurts the girls & eventually the clients get weary & start looking elsewhere!
I love you already Rosie ;-)Its true
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