Is language a barrier of some sorts for you guys?

[EagerBeaver]

But I worked with a lot (and I mean a lot) of French here in Montreal and never had the situation described in your post. Only lot of fun, working, going out, visiting each others.

Yes, but when they are there living and working in Montreal, they are going to play nice with the locals because they know where their bread gets buttered. Once they leave Montreal, you will hear their true thoughts.

The French guy I spoke to was an expat living in New York City. I asked him to explain what he meant exactly when he told me French Canadians spoke a "bastardized" version of French. He said to me, "what do you think of hillbillies from the Tennessee mountains, the way they speak English? Well, the Quebecoise are our hillbillies."

 

[voyageur11]

and you believe him ! You should ask your french friend to visit louisiana

 

[EagerBeaver]

and you believe him ! You should ask your french friend to visit louisiana

Did I ever say I believed him? I just reported what he said. I thought he is/was a cocky and arrogant guy and it came in one of my ears and went out the other.

Also, since I do not speak French well, how would I know whether what he said was true or not?

 

[protagoras]

I thought he is/was a cocky and arrogant guy and it came in one of my ears and went out the other.

That fits perfectly with the definition of a Frenchman (especially if he is Parisian) :nod:

To some extent, all languages are bastardized. In fact the term « hybrid » would be more apropriate term here. Languages are made of diffrent loan words and they evolve over time when they are in contact with other languages. It is a kind of (linguistic) cross-fertilization. So the idea of a pure language (eine reine Sprache to follow Walter Benjamin) - at a pre-Babelian stage - is an absurdity. All languages are infuenced by other languages. Take for instance the case of German. Under the influence of American English they gave the name of Handy to cellular phones. This term is not really English but it is a kind of Pseudo-English (pseudoanglismus) and is part of of linguistic phenomena that we call « Denglisch » (the contrapted form of deutsch + English).

There a examples of different kind of pidgin or sabir all around the world where languages are influenced by a stronger language (habitually from a former colonial metropole).
Take for instance the case of « Dinglish » (Hindi = English).

Here's a funny video on Dinglish: http://fruitforbidden.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/whats-the-mean-of-dinglish/

So French (from France) is not better than Québécois French. The only difference that I can pinpoint is the following one: in general Frenchman have a better syntax than Québecers. But believe me whenFrenchmen interspersed their sentences with English word it is hilarious because they don't know how to pronounce properly the words in question. I think we have more problems to understand Frenchmen (because of their argotic language) than they have understanding us.

 

[james t kirk]

I think most working girls are more interested in your wallet than what language you speak.

As to Quebec French vs. French French, Quebec French (spoken) is brutal.

Je becomes Jah

Moi becomes moy

Toi becomes Toy

Il becomes y (the worst)

Peut etre becomes pad thai

Puis becomes pee

Quebecers don't say their ne (s) when they speak, yet they write them.

The best is "Je ne sais pas" which becomes sha-paw

Merci Bien becomes Marcy Ben


It's terrible.

 

[james t kirk]

Une p'tite vite.

???

please explain

 

[Like_It_Hot]

Une p'tite vite = Une petite vite = a quickie

 

[wasisname]

French is just a bastardized version of Latin anyways. Ditto for English and German.

Of course Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, Ancient Chinese are all bastard variants of the one true language Klingon.


As for the girls personal feelings. considering what can happen during a session,I am sure as they walk out of an engagement with the cash they are owed and without suffering abuse or stink, anything extra is bonus. I doubt after a month or two that having to deal with an old fart, a fattie or not sharing a language would be old hat. And anyways us fat old dudes need love also, we just have to pay for it.

Of course a 2 hour session with minimal linguistic compatibility would be pretty awkward but considering that can happen in the biz it isn't so bad. Anyhow linguistic compatibility doesn't guarantee a lack of the awkward. I can tell you that just from real life.

 

[EagerBeaver]

French is just a bastardized version of Latin anyways. Ditto for English and German.

This is true (I would also add Italian to that list), but the Frenchmen I mentioned was comparing modern French in France to modern French in Quebec, in using his characterization of the latter as bastardized. If we start comparing modern languages to classical languages, they are all bastardized. But his comparison was between the modern versions of French as spoken in France and as spoken in Quebec.

Like I said previously, the English feel the same way towards the Americans. You will never see an English made film in which a great American writer is quoted. One of the famous lines in the recent Bond film "Skyfall" was a quote from Tennyson. They also could have thrown in a quote from Poe just as easily (Poe would have better fit the film), but they don't believe Americans are as clever or creative with the language. The English are just as cocky and arrogant or moreso than their French counterparts. They believe that we are their colonial subjects and, essentially, the bastard children who went awry with their language and their culture and political institutions. If you eavesdrop on conversations they have, this is exactly how they feel. Some expats I have gotten to know have shared with me that this is how their countrymen feel. It is what it is.

Just remember the English and the French both ruled the world at different times in history (the French under Napoleon). They did not get to be masters of the world by thinking everyone else was equal to them. They got to be masters through arrogance and ruthlessness.

 

[Halloween Mike]

I think most working girls are more interested in your wallet than what language you speak.

As to Quebec French vs. French French, Quebec French (spoken) is brutal.



It's terrible.

Sorry to correct you James but here the true version

Je : Chu
Moi : Moé
Toi : Toé (but this one vary, i use both Toé and Toi depending on who i speak to.
Toi aussi : Toi Too(anglicisme)
Il : Y (this one is good)
Peut-Etre : pad thai??? Nop, more like Ptaite bin or just Pt-etre
Puis : Pee sound right for an english person but we write it "Pis" , we don't mean piss lol
Je ne sais pas : J'sais po or Ché po
As for the S we write them sure, but they are mute unlike english, and it aint quebecois, its definitive french. I always said to my teacher in school it was stupid to put an S to everything plurial yet not pronouncing it, and he actually agreed but said it was like that. For exemple, Chair become ChairZZZZ in english, yet Chaise will remain Chaise with an S in french.
Merci Bien : Marcy bin yup, but also thank you bin, again using english, even Thanks el'gros (Thanks Big guy)

You see now why i fear from french, english is so overpresent we are using it without even noticing.

 

[Max15411]

The true version is sooo much better!

 

[protagoras]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Presenting in such a way the type of French spoken in Québec is a gross oversimplification! :nono:

Not everybody in Québec speak bad French. It's more a marqueur of a social and economic status than an accurate and genuine description of the state of French in Québec. When I speak French (especially at work!) I use a well-polished form of international French. Even in my family we don't say moé toué, etc. It was not part of my upbringing at all.You'll find the batardized form of French in the lower class. Unfortunately it is them that tarnish our reputation abroad.

I met once in Hungary a group of French tourist. When the French guide realized that I was a Québécois he said: Ah ben tabarnak un cousin Québécois! I replied to him: Sorry cuz, but these words are not part of my vocabulary... He felt so ashamed that he never used these words with me again.

 

[Halloween Mike]

So are you actually implying that i am from a lower class? Are you trying to insult me? Not only "lower class" use tabarnak and the other sacre, actually most people do in there private life, they just don't do it at the job because its just like that. When i am at the job its 'vous" and no sacre, when im among friends its "Tabarnak l'gros kessé tu colisse". Even on TV when there is errors you can hear the presentators curse...

Its like americans, you think because they are presidents of compagnies or whatever, that they never say 'fuck that" or "you fucking piece of shit" when they are angry at something or somebody.

Good for you "bro" if you actually speak "la bouche en cul de poule" in every situation, even if your private life, but me, just as many other quebecois, i am prouf of my culture, my language and it sure does include tarbarnak. I don't say it in a vulgar way, or to offend the christian, its just the french equivalent of "fucking"

That Fucking car is not working.... Le tabarnak de char marche pas...
Tabarnak !, c bin fraite icitte, Fuck, thats so cold here ...

 

[EagerBeaver]

HM,

I am not too familiar with French profanities, but many years ago, I saw a fully bilingual escort who used a French word on me. When I asked her what that word meant, she said there was no precise translation. We were actually speaking in English, and I started playing around with her like tickling her and also playing some jokes on her, and she said to me, "tannant!!!!!!!!" And I was like what is a tannant? And she started laughing and said that this is a word the French have and there is no real English equivalent. So I asked her to give me some idea what the word meant. I think she said the closest English word was "rascal", but not really a perfect translation of "tannant".

Funny story: many years ago I was staying at the Novotel and I was awakened by some drunken yelling and screaming in French in the hallway. I could not understand what was being yelled but I knew it was a drunken yelling by the tone, and I suspected it was a bunch of French profanities. And someone else must have complained because Novotel hotel security intervened and broke up a small party where this outburst occurred. I think it was basically kids in their early 20s, maybe even students. One French guy was yelling at another one but it was not like a mean yelling. It almost sounded like they were having fun with each other and I would be laughing if I knew what they were saying.

Another funny story: one time I was at another hotel and some young French guy and his friend got in the elevator with me. I could see that the young French guy was excited about something. In an excited voice he rambled something off to me in French for about 30 seconds. I think his friend knew I was an Anglophone by the way he was looking but this guy was speaking very excitedly in French to me and did not let me get a word in edgewise. Finally his friend said something to him in French that sounded like, "he is an unilingual Anglophone". Then I said to the guy I am really sorry but I don't speak any French and don't know what you are saying to me. I was hoping he would change over to English because I was dying to know what this guy was so excited about. But he either did not know any English or was not comfortable with it. He just gave me a sheepish smile and that was it. I never found out what he was trying to say.

Another time I was walking on Rene Levesque and saw some dude driving a Tractor Trailer combo, who I could tell was lost. He stops the truck and gets out, and walks towards me excitedly. He starts talking to me in French. He looked like he was probably from the Quebec country, did not know Montreal and I knew he was lost but he started asking me for directions in French. I then explained I only speak English. He also looked kind of embarrassed and said "okay, its good", probably the only English words the poor guy knew. Never found out if he made it to where he was going.

 

[TheBlob]

James T Kirk: It depends who you're talking to....usually, it also goes with social class and education. But not all the time though.

 

[Halloween Mike]

Tannants... well... pretty much mean somebody that can't stay still... always have to do something, always annoying if you want, but in a not bad way... You say this mostly to kids, t'est bin tanant" Tanner pretty much mean Anoy in french... Tu me tanne.. you annoy me... yet it kind still be used as an affective word... but can also be used in a mean way.. i guess you got to be french to use it... lol

another post i made when i tough the first one didn't post..



Tanant can be both...it comes from the verb tanner... Piss off in english...

For exemple... tu me tanne... you piss me off..

Tes tanant... your annoying

But it can also be used as an affective word... like 'tes un ptit tanant toi" wich would mean "your a little tricky" or something close... like a guy who loves to do tricks, do jokes and such

 

[Halloween Mike]

sorry for the double post, tough first time didn't work, erase this one.

 

[man77777]

French quebecois syntax is horrible compared to frenchmen one. Everybody knows it, even in Quebec. And actually quebecois language specificities are always translation of english expression. For exemple, quebecois answer to "merci" by "bienvenu" and not by "de rien" like in France, cause english say "youre welcome". THey say "ca prend" and not "cela necessite" in good french cause english say "it takes"... ect...

The more I live in Montreal, the more I realise that quebecois from higher class act like frenchmen, drinking lot of wine, being more polite and sophisticated, speaking with more appropriated syntax and being harder to please...

MOre generally, European are more sophisticated than north american. Nothing to be ashamed about, you cant make up 3500years of history in 4 centuries...

 

[protagoras]

There's is no exact translation of tannant in English.

The closer candidates conveying more or less the same meaning are the following ones: playful, frolic, impish or even mischevious

 

[Halloween Mike]

Nothing to be ashamed about, you cant make up 3500years of history in 4 centuries...

Yeah you can, by making your smaller history a brighter one... I love the subject of history, but if something always comes out of it, thats during all these years, would it be the french, english, persian, greek, italians, they all at some point been monsters and barbaric to another culture.

In any case your right about the english translations, another proof of the assimilation of english in quebec... at least those words have become part of our language and remain french, but still, yet its funny how my mother always said to use Bienvenue as a more polite form, while i was always saying "De rien" for all my life, minus a few years where it was "no problemo" (lol terminator 2)

Also i hate the prejudice you just exposed, those peope drinking wine for exemple... why always associated with highter classes? I don't "hate" wine, but ill take a good beer over any whine, yet its always considered more " banal" , like beer is just for the drunken old men and college boys... or i dunno. There aint just "budweiser and labbath bleue" in beers, i could show some beers that sell at 10$ the bottle and are exquisite. Also the whole polite and sophisticated is a front, nothing more, cause they try to preserve an imagine, in there privacy there the same people.

We all do that, exept some people that just don't care, im always polite when going into a store, asking directions, eating in a restaurant and such cause its common sense, but once im at home with friends it a different thing, the normal words are more present "criss oui, l'gros" or "ces hot en tabarnak ste jeux la"

This remind me of a funny situation, i had a friend on xbox live he was 17 or so if i remember correctly, i was around 25 at that time, at one point he brough his father to our team (was cool that his father played with him) , and when he presented him to me i said "yo man, sa va?" in the same word i say to everybody, i acted totally the same way as any other guy of the team. He was kinda surprised at first but i said to him "i don't care if your double my age, could be my father or whatever, i won't call you mister, when your in my team your just like everybody else and im the captain of this team. He was cool with it and it was funny.