It's Official Canada has adopted Nordic Model Prostitution Law

[BookerL]

An interesting legal perspective published today in the Globe and Mail about, once again, the pitfalls of C-36:

Certainly is !Great article !:thumb:
But it doesn't seem at present that the Harper boy's are conceding such amendments !Sadly
They do not even seem to have a backup plan if portion of the bill C-36 is struck down by the Courts and if they do they are quiet about it!
A debate to follow
Sincerely yours
BookerL

 

[gugu]

An interesting legal perspective published today in the Globe and Mail about, once again, the pitfalls of C-36:

The best piece I have read so far on C-36.

Buyers and advertisers of sexual services should face prosecution only if they have failed to ascertain the absence of conditions of exploitation. This should include a duty to take all reasonable steps to ensure that sex workers are 18 or over, are not trafficked or otherwise subject to violence or coercion, and have given meaningful consent to sexual contact that is not compromised by, for example, mental health disabilities, alcohol or drugs.

This is the innovative aspect of the article, at least in the Canadian debate. Finland and UK have a similar device in their legislations.

Sexual exploitation is an objectively ascertainable harm.

This pretty much sums up the argument in seven words.

 

[Poolguy]

Interesting article on Harper (only 15 months to go)

Seems this guy has a history of failures, maybe he will add c36 to his list.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/07/10/stephen_harper_vulnerable_after_all_goar.html

 

[Joe.t]

Prediction- Stephen Harper will step down before the next election because he knows that he will be absolutely destroyed, humiliated, massacred, it won't be pretty, it will be reminiscent of Custards last stand, the conservative radio talk show host in my city who happens to be a big time conservative has already conceded defeat in next years election blaming the loss on young people and women who absolutely adore Justin Trudeau, Harper would only stay if he knew that he had a chance to win, he will step down before the election stating that he has done everything that there is to be done and that the country is in the best shape that it's ever been when in reality he knows that his days are numbered, you just watch, 15 months to go and I can't wait, bye bye Harper, good riddance to you, your conservative idealogy and that stupid looking hair style of yours, tell me that this guy is not wearing a toupee.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=step...courageously-slams-hamas-terrorism%2F;500;344

 

[Siocnarf]

So what happens if Harper steps down? We get MacKay instead. Same difference.

 

[Joe.t]

The difference is that we will have a Liberal government in power, majority?, who knows at this point, the other important point is that the arrogant Conservative government will no longer be in office.

 

[hungry101]

Joe, I don't understand Canadian politics or politics for that matter but I think the idea of the Nordic Model has got legs. I already read that Trudeau thinks it's a good idea. There is the religious right and the man hating feminists on the left and then you have the conservatives that are vying for the female vote...this is all so Machiavellian. It has become politically expedient to buy into this BS. I hope you guys throw Harper out but I think these types of laws are the fashion.

 

[Siocnarf]

It has become politically expedient to buy into this BS. I hope you guys throw Harper out but I think these types of laws are the fashion.

You can trust the Canadian government to jump on the bandwagon when this fashion is starting to be out. The French senate rejected it. Norway is seriously thinking about repealing it. And here we have a bill of rights and a Supreme court ruling that is incompatible with this type of law. We might get in the Guinness book of records for the country with the most short-lived Nordic model ever. The only country where it's going to be contested in court immediately after being passed.

This law is like a poorly assembled Ikea furniture that's bound for the garbage dumpster. Once it gets thrown out by the Supremes it's over. It doesn't matter if Trudeau likes it or not. After that there's only decriminalization left.

 

[hungry101]

I loved your comparison to the IKEA furniture. I hope your correct. I just don't want to be busted in the first sting and made an example of. Because these are politicians we are dealing with. there is no right or wrong....the goal is to get reelected (and of course there is cronyism and feather bedding and more cronyism).

 

[Siocnarf]

Hungry, like I said in a french thread, I don't expect any (or much) sting for internet escorts. There is no practical purpose for it. Stings are either at street level, to address real problems in a neighbourhood, or to close down specific massage parlors/agencies when they are involved in crimes like underage, drugs or illegal immigrants. In real life, we don't have to deal with politicians. We deal with police who are much more pragmatic and don't have any incentive to change their MO.

Like you said, the goal of gov. is to get re-elected. All they need for that is a law that pleases their base on paper. The effect of the new law is similar to the old one. The ''win'' of Harper is to not be the one decriminalizing prostitution. On the other hand they don't have anything to gain by stirring more trouble by going on a real crusade. I don't expect much change in police activity.

 

[Bobinnyc]

Joe, I don't understand Canadian politics or politics for that matter but I think the idea of the Nordic Model has got legs. I already read that Trudeau thinks it's a good idea. There is the religious right and the man hating feminists on the left and then you have the conservatives that are vying for the female vote...this is all so Machiavellian. It has become politically expedient to buy into this BS. I hope you guys throw Harper out but I think these types of laws are the fashion.

I count my blessings that the US does not have a national law banning prostitution. I really don't think think the Nordic model would pass muster here in the US even if we did as many are growing tired of the victim mentality here and conservatives would raise holy hell if women making $100,000 a year were treated as victims. Fox News would run with that story.

I think Canada will see see a few busts and agency closures to appease the base and crazy feminists but I can't see this law having a long term impact in cities like Montreal. But I do worry how the law will alter communication as acronyms in ads will be avoided. And guys might have less latitude to complain about poor service. Those two things are what is most detrimental.

 

[Siocnarf]

I'm not so sure about that. Probably we will see less acronyms in ads, but when you contact the escort by e-mail or phone, it is very easy to communicate privately about the details. Same with forums. Now it is forbidden to post about sex in massage parlors, but people can still do it with private messages. We have to be more careful during communication but it will be possible to do it anyway.

 

[hungry101]

Bobby...We have local laws so what's the difference? Ideas like criminalizing the buying while legalizing the selling appeals to the broad base (my litmus test is those that thought the movie "taken" wasn't a piece of shit. This is the broad base.) News stories like this are running on all the cable news channels. see the following thread:
https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?116651-MSNBC-s-Sunday-10PM-programing-Sex-Slaves

 

[Siocnarf]

Technically, if the police can prove that a man had sex with a prostitute (which is different than solicitation), that john can be charged with a felony on first offense;

This is discriminatory, unless they could prove you were seeing her in her professional capacity. Otherwise it is the same as saying prostitutes are not allowed to have a personal life and have sex with strangers like any woman. Our government is retarded, but legally I think Canada is ahead of US in terms of personal freedoms.

Compare with war: a prostitute is like a guerilla fighter that is impossible to distinguish from a civilian. When a known prostitute has sex with someone, there is no way to be sure if she's having sex for money or for fun. If we hold her to a different standard than other people, it is discrimination.

 

[Siocnarf]

How many hours on average you think they spend jerking off to the reviews during their ''investigation'' of our ''secret'' website? Maybe people should invite them to the next GT if they are so obsessed with these ''Invisible Men''.

 

[anon_vlad]

Regarding the links reverdy posted of the C-36 supporters:

There are plenty of reviews which show that some of us seek romance or physical contact with another human or alleviation of loneliness. As in any conflict, they tried to dehumanize their perceived enemies by selecting the reviews which they think put us in the worst light.

 

[anon_vlad]

We can debate the logic, the practicality and even the constitutionality of C-36 all we want. However, there will always be a majority in favor of banning any aspect of the sex trade, in particular, prostitution, pornography and stripping.

That majority includes most women whose livelihoods are not related to the sex trade and men who can't imagine partaking of it themselves due to religious convictions, age etc.

From a women's point of view: (None of the following will ever be cited by the C-36 supporters. There are some who will regard some of the following as misogynistic.)

1) Why risk a disease because their men have strayed?
2) They can suggest better uses of the money their mates spend on SPs
3) They don't welcome the competition of hot, young women.
4) I have heard women boasting of how they manipulated their husbands by withholding sex. That doesn't work so well when the men can get it for for no more than the cost of drinks and a hockey game.

 

[BookerL]

Police investigator pitch after he makes arrest ?

Hungry, like I said in a french thread, I don't expect any (or much) sting for internet escorts. There is no practical purpose for it. Stings are either at street level, to address real problems in a neighbourhood, or to close down specific massage parlors/agencies when they are involved in crimes like underage, drugs or illegal immigrants. In real life, we don't have to deal with politicians. We deal with police who are much more pragmatic and don't have any incentive to change their MO.

Like you said, the goal of gov. is to get re-elected. All they need for that is a law that pleases their base on paper. The effect of the new law is similar to the old one. The ''win'' of Harper is to not be the one decriminalizing prostitution. On the other hand they don't have anything to gain by stirring more trouble by going on a real crusade. I don't expect much change in police activity.

Hi all
Have anyone ever heard a Police investigator Technics and pitch after a .
Arrest are made to gain leverage, sometimes on future arrest .Someone that pleads guilty with no jail time often wants to talk ,Experience police investigator knows this ,So arresting johns to get to agency owners and Bookers is a possible scenario!!
The big fish is always at greater risk then the smaller ones >
Leverage through collaboration is the name of the game in successfully dismantling any crime Rings !
That is the scary part
Good luck to all
BookerL

 

[Siocnarf]

2) They can suggest better uses of the money their mates spend on SPs

So, she prefers that her husband gets arrested and spends 5000$ on a lawyer and her family gets shamed and ridiculed.

Yes Booker, there's a word for that but I don't remember it: they arrest someone and make a bargain in exchange for testimony so they can arrest someone bigger and so on until they get the ones they want.

 

[BookerL]

Yes Booker, there's a word for that but I don't remember it: they arrest someone and make a bargain in exchange for testimony so they can arrest someone bigger and so on until they get the ones they want.

Yes Siocnarf
There's words for it ,its called Astute Police investigations!
Bringing down the big ones is a much bigger trophy and permits them to gloat a lot more !
By criminalizing the Johns witch is the weakest link in prostitution because he doesn't have financial gains to protect like this escort or booker owner ,
He as is personal life to protect nothing else !
Think the rest
BookerL out