Long term arrangements

[CaptRenault]

A question for the experts on SA.

I notice that many of the girls have profiles listing their lifestyle as minimal, moderate, practical or open, while saying lower down that they're looking for a luxury lifestyle.

What's up with this?

RP, I wouldn't read too much into this apparent disparity. Almost every woman on SA has a fantasy of finding a rich Prince Charming who will provide them with an significant monthly allowance and a "luxury lifestyle." Thats the fantasy.

At the same time, most (but not all) women are well aware of their relative value in the marketplace and so they pick some lifestyle expectation that sounds reasonable. Which one they pick is not that important. I don't even pay much attention to which one a woman selects unless it is one of the upper-end choices, i.e. "substantial" or "extravagant." I generally ignore those women.

Within certain parameters, everything is negotiable on SA. The "lifestyle" expectation posted by a woman is just a starting point in a negotiation. Even those women who choose a "lifestyle" expectation greater than "open," meaning they are hoping for (dreaming of, fantasizing about?) a fairly substantial monthly allowance, are often willing to work out a pay-per-meeting arrangement.

Though I would add that most women on SA do have a reasonable and justifiable expectation that if the two parties are satisfied with a pay-per-meeting arrangement, then it will be become a recurring relationship. Sugar babies generally do not want to work like an escort, i.e., taking on all comers (no pun intended :smile: ). They are willing to give "try-outs" to different guys but they usually want to settle on having one or more regulars.

 

[EagerBeaver]

At the same time, most (but not all) women are well aware of their relative value in the marketplace and so they pick some lifestyle expectation that sounds reasonable. Which one they pick is not that important. I don't even pay much attention to which one a woman selects unless it is one of the upper-end choices, i.e. "substantial" or "extravagant." I generally ignore those women..

CR,

Although I read the rest of your post and agree with all of the rest of it, this is the only part I disagree with, and I think it's because you are targeting older women than me and I am targeting young, and new college age girls.

Some 18-22 year olds, who have registered on SA within a month of being viewed, do not yet know the value of their ass on the SA market, so they select things like "substantial" or "extravagant." I have negotiated market price dates with such ladies. On the other hand, I just had one who was "Open" ask me for $500 for a platonic introductory date/ I quickly hit the "next" button. The girl is brand new and doesn't yet know her value and needs to learn it. In a year or so, she will probably take $100-$150 for an intro date but at the moment has not yet had to experience what the demand is for dates with her at that rate. She will figure it out but while she does, I just move on to the next one.

Also, a lot of guys make the mistake of believing that the girl's "fantasy" is what she is actually expecting. It's not what she is expecting. The lady who posted the Pretty Woman fantasy I posted earlier in this thread is not expecting Richard Gere to show up for a date. She is expecting someone with a non-judgmental attitude. She is expecting someone who is a gentleman and kind. That was all she was saying.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

My sense is that 90% of the women that I've communicated with were in the "Negotiable" category. My profile ends with "If you’re here because you want to finance experiences you might not be able to afford otherwise, or education, or because you’ve chosen a lifestyle/career that doesn’t fully support you, or just for help with living expenses, I might be your guy. If you’re here simply to satisfy an addiction to “stuff,” I’m probably not."

And with that, I hit the jackpot. She found me and started the conversation. She says now that she knew instantly that we were going to click.

 

[Red Paul]

I ask them upfront what they will need or expect in terms of $ and do not waste time if they want something I am not willing to do, or is not close to my number.

Given that they're on guard about being treated as escorts, is there careful phrasing of some sort that's necessary when raising the question of money so early in the communication?

 

[EagerBeaver]

RP,

I say something like this:

“What do you need for an intro, NSA attached, platonic dinner/lunch/coffee meeting”? Some ladies do not want anything at all for intro meetings. Some do. Anything from $50 to $200 if in fact they ask for something.

 

[Red Paul]

So the money negotiation, at the outset, is just for the intro. But I suppose the figure they give for that gives an idea of what they might want down the road.

 

[EagerBeaver]

So the money negotiation, at the outset, is just for the intro. But I suppose the figure they give for that gives an idea of what they might want down the road.

Yep. This is how you know right off the bat what kind of girl you have on your hands - whether she is a realistic negotiator or a gold digger. As CR and Rumples have stated, most girls will negotiate. But if a girl insists on $300 for an intro date you just move on. It’s very easy to do.

I usually save the discussions and negotiations for intimacy for when we meet in person. However some girls especially the younger ones are very cautious and they will ask what kind of arrangement you want. I usually respond, candidly, that I want an intimate arrangement (which BTW can mean anything from kissing to sexy pics or to a happy ending massage to FS, and I have done all those things), BUT, that I think intro meetings of NSA are necessary to determine whether chemistry and connection exists. Stating this immediately “de-hookerizes” the situation and reassures her that you care about having the right match and that she isn’t being treated like a prostitute.

Like I said, patience and communication skills are important and the guys who have neither strike out on SA, funds or not.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

I've only had one girl ask me for something for an intro dinner. She's the one I mentioned a page or so back who took me three days and nearly 100 messages back and forth before she agreed to meet. She asked for a gift. I gave her a very bizarre art book by Luigi Serafini. She was thrilled.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Some girls have also told me they just want a gift, and I usually buy chocolates, because it’s a reliable gift and a low percentage of ladies do not like it.

 

[sambuca]

Do you pass on any girl who wants money for the intro no matter how small the amount?

I imagine you run into a few hustlers who are kind and sweet and then when they think they've reeled you in start asking for more and more. Just a guess.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

SolTeeNutz is a smart guy who appears to work in a boom/bust industry, and has seen enough of rural Canada and encountered enough people to have formulated some opinions that I find reasonable. The guys who like Long Term Relationships overestimate the ability of the average guy to successfully negotiate and more importantly navigate these encounters that involve texting or emailing back and forth for long periods of time (an activity of questionable worth to a guy with a job), upfront negotiations, buying gifts (the Sugar Baby sites have guides for what to buy her at the Holidays), continued negotiations, and terminations / rearrangements.

You are probably correct that Sol does not have the tools to navigate the kind of relationship that I have with S.

I am not intending to criticize or demean the guys that this process works for. I am happy for them and enjoy reading the stories. .

You might be, and I'm sure the Beav and Louis Renault enjoy sharing our experiences with you. Sol, on the other hand, gets all lathered up in to a rage of envy when he reads them. That's not my purpose, nor Louis', nor Beav's. None of us have any use for his trolling.

But a lot of the readers of the thread are here to compare seeing hourly escorts, generally in Montreal, to a Sugar Baby arrangement.

Not a good idea. Apples and Durian. S. and I spend between 10 and 25 hours a week in each others company. At $220 an hour, I'd have been broke long, long ago and living in a cardboard box somewhere.

We might be wrong, but it is not trolling.

You clearly are not trolling. But Sol's broken record is the very definition.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Jealous? No. Complained the prices were too high for me, no.
Again, listen carefully. Just my opinion but paying for sex is OK, paying for someone to be with you when you go out ( unless you are from out of town and want a dinner date and sex after ) is wrong ( IMO ).
It would be like paying for a friend, I have friends and make new ones.
You want a night out and sex after, go to a pub and meet people, have a light meal, next hit a strip club, then call an escort.... Unless you have no friends to call or are too awkward to meet people.
EB, you claim I do not treat women right but your entire life goes towards paying women to fuck you and or be with you, just like a possession you buy at a store, she must do as you tell them or they will be returned.
Yup, crusader for women and expert on relationships.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Unless you have no friends to call or are too awkward to meet people.
EB, you claim I do not treat women right but your entire life goes towards paying women to fuck you and or be with you, just like a possession you buy at a store, she must do as you tell them or they will be returned.
Yup, crusader for women and expert on relationships.

Why do you persist in repeating the same things over and over again when I have stated they are not true? How about that I do it because I like it and I can do it and not because “I have nobody to call” or am “too awkward” to do otherwise? How about I am not attracted to women my own age? You are just posting the same nonsense over and over as if you know something about how I have lived and chosen to live. You don’t. You are just trolling here. Posting the same thing over and over doesn’t make it so. I have plenty of platonic female friends that I don’t fuck or try to. But in my free time I want to do what I want to do. It’s that simple. It’s a voluntary choice by me, not something forced upon me by awkwardness or boredom or inability to find “free” sexual partners. The women my own age don’t interest me. I have no interest in doing other than what I am doing. I have thoroughly described that the chase aspect holds value for me. You don’t seem to understand so I think you kind of should move on.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Why do you persist in repeating the same things over and over again when I have stated they are not true? How about that I do it because I like it and I can do it and not because “I have nobody to call” or am “too awkward” to do otherwise? How about I am not attracted to women my own age? You are just posting the same nonsense over and over as if you know something about how I have lived and chosen to live. You don’t. You are just trolling here. Posting the same thing over and over doesn’t make it so. I have plenty of platonic female friends that I don’t fuck or try to. But in my free time I want to do what I want to do. It’s that simple. It’s a voluntary choice by me, not something forced upon me by awkwardness or boredom or inability to find “free” sexual partners. The women my own age don’t interest me. I have no interest in doing other than what I am doing. I have thoroughly described that the chase aspect holds value for me. You don’t seem to understand so I think you kind of should move on.

Hey, Beav, you gotta problem with him blathering on endlessly about something about which he has no knowledge? What a fucking loser. (Him, not you. The only nut he needs to bust is on top of his shoulders. The only life he needs to get is his own.)

 

[EagerBeaver]

Me and STN are like that Robot in Lost In Space. The one that said ‘Danger, Will Robinson’ from time to time. Or like one of those doctors in the article that says to CrossFit enthusiasts to consider the back damage that might occur if you run down the sidewalk with weights over your shoulder and head. We might be wrong, but it is not trolling.

Patron,

This is a somewhat patronizing point of view. We are all big boys and have our own internal radar for red flags. I use SA with eyes wide open and I have never said there are no risks. There are. I have ended two arrangements because things started getting asked for that were beyond what had been discussed and agreed to. I don’t buy the emotional traumatization theory because I have told my SBs I don’t care who else they see. You seem to assume that there is some monogamistic element. It’s very easy to tell a SB “I don’t want you to rely exclusively on my assistance and if you ever feel you need to, you can have another SD.” A lot of the so called dangers your robot is calling out are false alarms on red flags that can be otherwise screened and vetted. Sometimes it’s okay to have the Robot from Lost in Soace yelling “Danger!” But it can be rather annoying when he is yelling “it doesn’t compute” or “program assistance needed.”

Regarding the danger calls, we are big boys and know how to handle them. Most women go into this with eyes wide open and their main concern is getting financial assistance. Guys can figure out if and when a financial umbilical cord is developing and if so when to cut it. Women move on on SA much faster than they do from real life relationships. I haven’t seen any “trauma”. As far as older men who are mentally compromised being taken advantage of, do you really believe that applies to anyone in this thread? I mean yeah I am sure it does happen but should we worry about that any more than any garden variety scam of the elderly? Scammers are free to go on SA as they are on MERB or anywhere else. So what? I don’t understand how that matters to this thread.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

EB, when I am in disagreement with you it is trolling, when you say I do not treat women right it is not.
My post about the socially awkward was not directed towards you.
My guess is that you need material things to survive, to be in control and that is the reason you buy what is needed by you.
Rump, he just fell in love with a paid for companion, it would be easy to do for some.
This is my last post in this thread...... unless someone makes another false claim towards me. See how long this lasts...

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Rump, he just fell in love with a paid for companion, it would be easy to do for some.

How long do you think your grandmother would have stayed with your grandad if he cut off support? You mother, your father? What does that make them? (Oh, and that does for mine too. Marriage is, was, and always will be primarily a financial arrangement.)

This is my last post in this thread...... unless someone makes another false claim towards me.

Thanks be the baby Jeebus. Forty one pages and I have yet to see any "fake news" where your jealous ass is concerned.

 

[EagerBeaver]

STN,

I do not think I ever said specifically you, STN, didn’t treat women right. While I did say that doing 30 minute sessions generally are equivalent to hiring someone be a receptacle for a semen discharge, I do understand that an escort who advertises 30 minute sessions is signing up for that role. I would assume you treat SPs properly. I do not recall any SP ever saying you didn’t, privately or publicly on MERB.

At one of the GG parties years ago I came close to doing a 30 minute session, but I had actually chatted with the lady for an hour at the party for free, such that it would have really been a 1.5 Hour session with 30 minutes private time after 1 Hour social time. However I was beaten out by someone else and after that, I didn’t desire to be sloppy seconds, for some reason.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

I do not think I ever said specifically you, STN, didn’t treat women right. While I did say that doing 30 minute sessions generally are equivalent to hiring someone be a receptacle for a semen discharge, I do understand that an escort who advertises 30 minute sessions is signing up for that role.

Completely agree, though I might add that seeing a young woman for the sole purpose of "busting a nut" has a more than slightly seedy ring to it. As we all know, a gentleman always lets a lady come first.

 

[Red Paul]

I usually respond, candidly, that I want an intimate arrangement ... BUT, that I think intro meetings of NSA are necessary to determine whether chemistry and connection exists. Stating this immediately “de-hookerizes” the situation and reassures her that you care about having the right match and that she isn’t being treated like a prostitute.

Sounds good, thanks for the advice.