Long term arrangements

[EagerBeaver]

I have a few married friends on SA who juggle SBs/mistresses. Their main complaint is finding the time to do the requisite messaging to set up dates. As I previously explained SA is a time investment and you need to send out 10-15 messages which ultimately might yield one date. There is also the messaging/flirting process before the date. All a game. But that game requires time that many married, busy professional men don’t have.

The discretion part of it is easy, if you have brains and these guys do. These guys have explained 5 guy trips to Montreal in order to visit with investors and also to stay at EB’s condo in Montreal (which does not now nor never existed). Tell good stories and they get believed. Tell bad ones and they don’t get believed. It’s prety simple and this is where the smart guys win and the dumb guys lose. It does require a certain level of deviousness as well. The ability to tell and embellish stories is essential. I do believe it is a talent. I didn’t like being part of the story/lie, but I had to admit it was novel, admirable, fiendish and on point. Admiration somewhat, although not completely, tempered my anger over being used in a lie to the friend’s wife, whom I like. But I understood that he did what he believed he had to do to get her to buy his story.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Seems like a good time for a post that's been fermenting in my head for a while. As some of you know, I'm in a long term arrangement, over two years now, that I can state without equivocation is the best relationship I've ever had with a woman. (It helps that she's gorgeous, smart, ethical, and the hippie chick of my dreams. She's also 33 y/o. I could never do this with a 20 year old. My sweetie's been around a bit.)

I want to compare my relationship with S. to a traditional marriage.

First the similarities:
1. I provide considerable financial support, as is still the case in most traditional marriages.
2. If the financial support were withdrawn, the relationship would suffer grievous damage. (While she couldn't divorce me for non-support, she could dump me.)

Now the differences:
1. If I want to go for a week long bike ride in Gaspesie with friends, I don't have to ask.
2. If I want to watch a ballgame, I will not be nagged.
3. If I want to see an escort in my home, it's fair game.
4. If I want to have an escort in my home with her joining in the fun, she's all up for it.
5. Our sex never gets old. Twice a week, every week, though she has initiated a third playdate more than once.
6. I could go on, but you get the point.

 

[EagerBeaver]

So what are the practical tips, EB?

They created fake personas and have phones, and other equipment registered in the fake persona's identity. It is not identity theft when the identity you are using is not stolen, but rather a figment of your imagination. When we are in Montreal, I address them using their fake names in all our social activities. It's really no different than what you have seen in James Bond movies where Bond assumes some identity, gets fake IDs and cards etc. to get close to an evil genius's operation. It's actually easy to do and perfectly legal when the identity is not stolen, but created. These guys are just executing on a high level.

It's also foolproof because when any kind of statement shows up and it's not in your name, if the wife somehow sees it, it's easily and very plausibly denied. A phone in someone else's name is not your phone. A statement in someone else's name is not your debt. A bank account not in your name, is not your bank account.

It's now gotten to the point that when we go out socially to bars in CT, their fictional personas are assumed for purposes of all conversations. The fictional personas do not reside in CT, BTW, or so every woman we have met is told.

The issues you mention are basically issues for the less imaginative people in society who don't know how to create a fictional person, or do not try, or cannot execute. The execution part is critical. If a slot receiver in the NFL does not know what route to run on 3rd and short and/or cannot adjust mid route when his QB is blitzed, the QB is going to get sacked. A good slot WR will adjust his route when the blitz is called, catch the ball in space and make a first down. In this game they are playing it's all about adjustments being made during plays in order to get first downs. They move the sticks. You can either move the sticks or not, if not, you do not last in the sport.

 

[Hercule Poirot]

Hobbying is like going to a fine restaurant, it is nice to go once in a while but i would not want to restrict myself to one place.

 

[CaptRenault]

...i would not want to restrict myself to one place.

Having a relationship with a sugar baby definitely does not mean that you are restricted to an exclusive arrangement with her. I have a sugar baby that I see about once every 3-4 weeks. I also still have occasional encounters with a local escort whom I knew before I started my relationship with the sugar baby. In addition I met four different escorts over the course of 8 days during my midsummer trip to QC and Montreal. In the spring I traveled to Europe and visited 2 FKKs and one brothel.

My sugar baby knows about all those encounters and she has no problem with me having some fun outside of our relationship. But I do try to see my sb on a monthly basis so that she can count on that as part of her monthly income. She probably has 2 or 3 other sugar daddies along with her regular job, but I don't care.

You can negotiate any arrangement you want to with a sugar baby. Despite what you read in sensationalistic accounts about arrangements, there's no set formula for them. Though there is an unspoken understanding that if things go well, then you will keep seeing each other on a regular basis. But there is no set frequency of meetings and it is fairly common to pay on a per-encounter basis.

 

[hungry101]

My sugar baby knows about all those encounters and she has no problem with me having some fun outside of our relationship. But I do try to see my sb on a monthly basis so that she can count on that as part of her monthly income. She probably has 2 or 3 other sugar daddies along with her regular job, but I don't care.

You can negotiate any arrangement you want to with a sugar baby. Despite what you read in sensationalistic accounts about arrangements, there's no set formula for them. Though there is an unspoken understanding that if things go well, then you will keep seeing each other on a regular basis.

Hey, this sounds like my buddy that got his pilot's license. He and several other pilots own a plane that they split the costs on. I may want in on something like this. Did you ever breakdown the cost of the SB on an hourly basis?

I am wondering how many Montreal Escorts have disappeared from the market due to SB relationships? Several have left for conventional relationships that I am aware of . Good for them. How many have left this site due to SB arrangements? for example, I wonder about Olivia. She said in her add that she was open to something like this if there was chemistry. Now she has disappeared as far as I can tell. I wonder if this is why.

 

[CaptRenault]

...Did you ever breakdown the cost of the SB on an hourly basis?

Yes, that's not a hard number to calculate. I pay her $300 per encounter and our encounters always last at least two hours and sometimes 2.5 hours. So between $120-$150/hour. Our encounters are the same as my encounters with an escort in Montreal, i.e. some conversation and refreshments at the start, then "happy fun time," then more conversation until she has to leave.

...Did you ever breakdown the cost of the SB on an hourly basis?

I am wondering how many Montreal Escorts have disappeared from the market due to SB relationships?

I think there is some overlap between escorts and sugar babies, but there are important distinctions that work against girls crossing over from one way of working to the other.

I think one of the biggest distinctions is that sugar babies want to be able to select their own clients and limit themselves to only one or just a few clients. In contrast , escorts are willing to accept almost anyone as a client who passes whatever screening test they use. Also, escorts usually expect to be paid strictly on an hourly basis or at a rate that is tied to a set amount of time ("no negotiation!") while sugar babies are somewhat more flexible in their rates.

It's kind of like the difference between a taxi and Uber or a hotel and Airbnb.

 

[pat98]

Yes, that's not a hard number to calculate. I pay her $300 per encounter and our encounters always last at least two hours and sometimes 2.5 hours. So between $120-$150/hour. Our encounters are the same as my encounters with an escort in Montreal, i.e. some conversation and refreshments at the start, then "happy fun time," then more conversation until she has to leave.

Sounds to me more like operational mode of an Indy or even very alike a stripper take out !
And hardly a "relationship" as it is "supposed" to be ... :smile:

Just to show that there is diversity, my experience from last year with a SB from SA here in Montreal; I was paying as you 300 per encounter BUT I was staying at her place the entire evening and even overnight, at least 12h and even 2-3 times like 15h. Means 300/12 = 25$ per hour lol
Oh and in this case, I was bringing food and she even at some occasion cooked for me!

Just saying again, sugaring is not same game at all, it's not just about booking her but some does it...

 

[jalimon]

Pat you cook like a god that's why

I am currently on SA. I followed basic advise given to me by EB via PM and it's working so far.

I am sticking to sex mandatory and 150 to 250 per encounter, from 1h to 3h meet. My rate is about 1 girl meet out of 20 contacted so it's tiring to be on SA... I might give up I admit.

Still I saw one girl already but told her I will not pursue, sex was great but discussion was so boring...

I am meeting a young black girl today. And an nice college brunette maybe tomorrow or sunday night.

Cheers,

 

[Element 115]

My long term arrangement is why I go out for the short term arrangements!

 

[CaptRenault]

Sounds to me more like operational mode of an Indy or even very alike a stripper take out !
And hardly a "relationship" as it is "supposed" to be ...

In my experience strippers typically ask for twice the normal hourly rate of an escort, which is the main reason that I have never had "take-out" from a strip club. Why they think they're worth that, I don't know.

Indies usually charge the same as or more than an agency escort.

So my experience with sugar babies is not like my experience with indies or strippers, at least not from the price/value viewpoint.

I would say that I have a "professional relationship" with my current sugar baby. I am under no illusion that we have a romantic relationship. But because we know a lot about each other (though not everything) and know each other's real identities, the relationship is different from meeting an escort just one time. I'm not saying it's better-both experiences are good, just different.

 

[hungry101]

Capt. - it doesn't matter. As long as it works for you and your SB. Besides, you live in the United Sex Prison and this is going to skew things a bit.

 

[pat98]

In my experience strippers typically ask for twice the normal hourly rate of an escort, which is the main reason that I have never had "take-out" from a strip club. Why they think they're worth that, I don't know.

Based on 2 stripper long term arrangements... ans some take-outs, in my experience, this is quite true Strippers ask more
-1- because they don't really want to do it, so they need more incentives, hence the high price
-2- if you fork the money for sure she'll do it lol
A running joke here: "If a stripper ask 1000$... This is because she don't want to fuck with you! But if you are able to pay that, of course she will proceed" :bounce:

my 2 cents

 

[curly]

Guys, many of you look at arrangements and sugar babies as cheap alternatives to escorts. No wonder you get frustrated, and the girls also get upset.

You may find such sugar babies (part- time or inexpensive escorts), however thé most girl there are looking for a sugar daddy... that's the point of that site. they want something longer term, more of a relationship of some kind. Not love, although some of them do hope to end up marrying a millionaire... But friends with mutual benefits kinda.... Some even hope you'll pay them for their company only, and I really wonder what type of man would accept that (unless they're gay!).

So if you look at it like this, you will have different expectations and be less frustrated...

 

[CaptRenault]

Guys, many of you look at arrangements and sugar babies as cheap alternatives to escorts. No wonder you get frustrated, and the girls also get upset.

You may find such sugar babies (part- time or inexpensive escorts), however thé most girl there are looking for a sugar daddy... that's the point of that site. they want something longer term, more of a relationship of some kind. Not love, although some of them do hope to end up marrying a millionaire... But friends with mutual benefits kinda....

I don't know to whom you're directing your comments, but I'm not frustrated. I'm happy with the arrangement that I have with my sugar baby and she is happy with it too.

It's not true that all the women on SA are seeking or preferring the type of sugar relationship that is portrayed as the ideal on SA and in the media. In my experience, many women there are happy to work out different kinds of arrangements including ones that involve payments per encounter with encounters occurring only between once and a few times per month.

It's misleading to characterize a sugar baby as a "cheap alternative" to escort. Depending on the terms of the arrangement, a sugar baby can cost significantly less or significantly more than an escort.

As I've pointed out before, the important differences between an escort and a sugar arrangment are:

1. A sugar baby picks her own client(s). An escort accepts almost anyone who passes screening as a client.
2. A sugar baby does not have preset, non-negotiable rates. Rates and terms are negotiated with each client. Most escorts do have set rates and won't negotiate rates except in certain cases.
3. Sugar babies hope for, seek out and expect to have a continuing relationship with a client. Escorts may have regular clients but there is no expectation of developing a regular relationship.
4. It takes more work and research for sugar babies and sugar daddies to find a good relationship and get to the point of a sexual relationship. With an escort, you can make a call and you'll be having sex within an hour (at least in Montreal ).

Obviously these are generalizations. There are exceptions and there is some overlap between the world of escorts and sugar babies. In the final analysis, Vive la différence!

 

[jalimon]

Well said Capt!

In my opinion you forgot one important point. A straight to the fact point. With SA the girl feels "normal".

I have one coming Sunday night for a first meet. She wrote me "I will not lie to myself just to get your cash, I need to truly like you. If I do not or just do not feel it, I am leaving, understood?"

Haha I love it!!

Cheers,

 

[jalimon]

Such honesty is truly refreshing, she is a keeper.

But before being a keeper, I need to win her over

And honestly I need to like her as well. Liking the pics of a girl is really different then liking the girl.

As Capt wrote the SA girl make their own choice of client. And that is a huge difference. At least for now.

What I discover messaging girl on SA is many are there for the free ride. Meaning they just want to be paid for companionship without sexual relation. EB's advice to me to say upfront in the first message that sexual relation for me is mandatory was clutch. I would have wasted so much time...

Cheers,

 

[jalimon]

My feedback so far on this SA tryout...

Sent messages to 40 different girl in the last 2 weeks.

About 30 answered.

About 15 declined sex encouters...

5 very hot one (according to their pics) accepted but demanded much higher allowance then sp (looking here at 500 per session or so...).

5 other are trying to get my attention but never respond clearly when I talk about sex and amount $...

On the 5 left I saw one. We spent an evening. Had sex. but she was boring...

Met a black girl. Just social and she did not asked anything. Beautiful girl wow. But too young. Not ready for this. Not ready for who I am now. She wants to see me again but not sure I am patient enough to give allowance just to talk...

2 I am in discussion as they like my pics and the way I approached them. 1 still asking too much per meet but willing to meet me once under my term to decide.

And the final one I saw turned much prettier then I tough! It felt great to have her at my place. Had full night of sex for a ridiculous amount! I feel cheap but hey I did not force her to anything. The process of SA was difficult and discouraging but men that girl was my reward haha I will see her again to make sure first night impression remains

We will see out it goes!

p.s. I gave myself only 1 month to try SA

 

[pat98]

Thanks Jalimon for this extensive and very interesting feedback!

It is certainly a lot more effort than any pizza delivery SP service.

Now Keep us updated :smile:

 

[CaptRenault]

My feedback so far on this SA tryout...

About 15 declined sex encouters...
5 very hot one...demanded much higher allowance then sp...
5... never respond clearly when I talk about sex and amount $...
On the 5 left I saw one. We spent an evening. Had sex. but she was boring...
2 I am in discussion as they like my pics and the way I approached them... 1 still asking too much per meet but willing to meet me once under my term to decide.
And the final one .... Had full night of sex for a ridiculous amount! ..The process of SA was difficult and discouraging but men that girl was my reward
p.s. I gave myself only 1 month to try SA

J, thanks for sharing your experience. It sounds like you found one great girl, so I would call that a success. :thumb: Your goal should be to find that one (or at most 2 or 3-if you have the time and money) special girl(s) that you would like to spend time (and have sex with) on a regular basis. If you have the budget, you can still see escorts for the sake of variety.

However, I do think your approach was a little too direct. EB and I probably disagree a little on the advisability of being totally upfront and direct with a girl right from the start. I think that an overly directly approach runs the risk of "hookerizing" a girl (to borrow a phrase from EB). In other words, direct discussion of sex and rates before meeting in person makes a girl feel too much like a regular escort. By being too direct up front, I think you can scare away some good candidates. In my approaches with the 3 SA girls that I had sex with (including my current SB), I never discussed sex before meeting in person. And even then I never discussed sex and rates until the initial get-to-know-you meeting was coming to a conclusion. Also, I never paid for get-to-know-you sessions, just for the coffee.

I think some women might appreciate the totally direct approach, but I don't think most women do. They want to meet you in person and evaluate you for safety, personality, looks etc. before they decide whether to have sex with you for money. If you put them on the spot by demanding an answer about sex and rates before you even meet in person, then you are probably eliminating some good potential candidates. Even some of the "hot ones" might have been willing to compromise on rates after they met you in person.

Some guys will object that all this is too much work. OK fine, then stick to escorts. Arrangements are not for everyone. But if you are willing to play the game, then the rewards can be great. Just remember that in the game of sex, women make the rules and their rules can be very different from ours.