Long term arrangements

[EagerBeaver]

I think there is a lot of misinformation about the actual cost of Sugar Dating. Some people are assuming that SA is overrun by gold diggers who want not a penny less than the arbitrary spending parameters posted by SA. Believing that is like believing in Santa Claus. Look at the reality of the world of the modern college student and you will see the reality of SA. The cost of a college education in the United States is $50,000 a year or more. Students rely on their families for handouts or loans and have no spending money for clothes, shopping, clubbing etc. I don’t understand how even reasonably intelligent posters like Patron simply don’t get it. The reality of the world is the reality of SA: lots of financially struggling students, looking for whatever help they can get from a guy who presents as a gentlemen.

Some of the posts by non SA users in this thread are so incredibly ignorant it boggles my mind. All of the above is common sense and after you are on SA for a while and read enough profiles you see that a lot of women are on there due to harsh economic realities of life for women in the 18-25 year old age group. As I mentioned as well, there is a percentage of minorities on SA disproportionate to the population at large due to the even bleaker economic situations for black and minority women. For this reason I have had unmitigated tremendous success finding high quality black women at very reasonable arrangement prices. However I strongly believe that there are matches on SA for everyone in this thread.

The caveat to all of the above is that while SA need not cost much more than your escorting budget does, the expenditure of time and effort is significantly higher. Some guys just don’t have the time or patience for the messaging aspect of it. You may need to put out 10-15 messages to find one keeper, ultimately. Other guys like the thrill of the chase. This is where you need to decide if it’s worth it. Not on the financial side. Because if your communication and negotiation skills are good and you don’t have a lot of age or racial or other physical restrictions, chances are you can find the right arrangement. It’s the time and effort, the gaming part of it, that could be the dealbreaker. Hiring escorts is easy. It’s like ordering a pizza. SA is a bit more complicated in time and effort. More like planning a dinner party.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

I spend money on escorts to bust a nut.

A fleshlight would be a lot less expensive and just as intimate as your 30 minute date.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Patron -

I agree with your points 2 (to a certain extent), and 4. 4 I agree with strongly. 2 and 3 simply don’t apply to me (except when I am in Montreal, and my experiences in Montreal were similar). I believe most guys use SA in their own locale.

Point 1 I disagree with because your point number 4 is the equalizer on cost as I already mentioned. But you are right, I live in a relatively densely populated area infested with local colleges and these market factors clearly do give me an advantage over those in other areas.

 

[sambuca]

Interesting thread and EagerBeaver and others deserve thanks for opening up the world of SA to us. Truly.

SolTeeNutz might be argumentative, but no matter the words chosen I tend to think this is simply P4P transactions built around a different structure. Eager, I realize the challenges many of these young women have meeting college expenses, etc. but I'm not sure your point. I think we can all agree when women have access to resources (parents, husband, career) 99.9% do not offer themselves to men for financial benefit. This is true anywhere in the world whether women choose to offer themselves for college expenses, some clothes or to send money home.

I'm actually intrigued by the pseudo-dating. I like the time chilling with a P4P girl. If you can make a connection, the sex is generally better. It's something I've done many times in South American and Southeast Asia, but it seems to be gradually dying off as the girls there have become more jaded.

It sounds like most of you have your head in the right place about these "arrangements". I've seen guys work sites like BrazilCupid to start relationships. They might visit Latin America and spend several days or a week with a girl. Money changes hands, but everyone operates under the illusion that it's a relationship. Then these guys insist they were dating a hot, Brazilian girl. I've had to be the bad guy and tell them I've seen her photo hanging out with a monger on one of the various international sex sites.

It sounds like you all understand what is going on and are not under any illusion even if we might disagree with the words (or euphemisms) to describe these arrangements. The girls might think of it as something else, but that is their prerogative I suppose.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Last one is complicated and I am kind of baffled as to, is this the end game that is really worth playing for, or is this the most dangerous and complicated of all.
Here I see someone where it started out casual but has developed into a kind of real relationship, but there is of course the ever looming $$$ involved.
Now if and when this ends will it be as disastrous as a real marriage or love relationship and will it have the same disastrous affect or will the person be able to take it in stride and move on to the next.

I don't know how long my relationship with S. will last, but I can absolutely assure you that the end will not be nearly as unpleasant as the ending of my marriages. It has often been pointed out that it's a lot easier getting married than unmarried. When this relationship ends, there will be none of the messy residue left behind at the end of a marriage. (Note that I don't say "failing marriage" as there are those that simply run their course. As we live longer and longer, people change and what worked for a while doesn't always continue to work. I have several friends that go off the couch and became serious about hiking and cycling while their spouses did not so they moved on.

Meanwhile, we're well into our third year and life could not be better. Living together puts great stress on a relationship; that's something that we'll never do. We're together when we want to be together. I don't have to ask her if I want to go cycling in Gaspesie for a week or head off to Thailand for a month. We enjoy great times together, both here in Montreal and traveling. We're off in a few weeks to NYC to see Springsteen on Broadway. Life could not be better, for her or for me.

 

[sambuca]

Sam21, very insightul comment.

Thanks for also helping me realize it's illusion not allusion. It's great that reading MERB is helping my vocabulary beyond just sex terms.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Sam21,

Your classifications probably fit most users of SA. I should note that on the SB side of things there is a equal variety of girls. Some want platonic arrangements, some will do only nude pics for money (usually not much BTW), some are open to PFP with the right guy, some want a secure long term arrangement. The ladies who don’t want the latter are quite clear about it. The most common SA disclaimer I see on many ladies profiles is “nothing serious.” That’s SA code for no boyfriend or serious relationship seekers. Those girls will however do PFP as long as it’s NSA and you respect their privacy/personal life and don’t bomb them with text messages except when you are ready to next meet.

I am not sure some other posters fully understand the struggles facing 18-25 year old woman trying to strike out and make their marks in the world. It’s daunting. Many unemployed or underpaid college girls out there. A lot of them realize they get nothing out of dating guys there own age. They get no support. They get no rent or tuition or new clothes. They are in some cases living with roommates or family members who support them. Even the girls coming from middle class families don’t get a lot of support and I dated a few whose parents simply cut the financial umbilical cord at age 18. It’s easy for you guys to look at things from your own coddled perspectives. I will be the first one to admit I was very privileged to have Dad pay for all of college and half of law school and also give me a meager allowance while I was in college - “to teach me the value of money.” The reality for these girls is considerably less fortunate in most cases. Harsh financial reality is why they are on SA. Arrangements are a way to make money that are easier than traditional jobs.

 

[heliragedeleted]

But aren’t you guys (EB and pat) saying the same thing?
For EB it’s about the game and for Patron(like most of us) it’s about the end game. One or the other, each to his own, no?

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

The most common SA disclaimer I see on many ladies profiles is “nothing serious.” That’s SA code for no boyfriend or serious relationship seekers. Those girls will however do PFP as long as it’s NSA and you respect their privacy/personal life and don’t bomb them with text messages except when you are ready to next meet.

Your comment shows just how all over the place this world is. My relationship with S. is a committed NSA one, which is to say that we're both fully committed to each other, but when we're not together, we're totally free to do as we please with whomever we please. She describes herself as polyamorous and pan sexual. I have no idea what she does sexually when we're not together, don't want to know, don't ask. My sense is that whatever she does outside our relationship is with other women or trans-women near her own age. She has also made life decisions which clearly suggest she's in this for the long haul.

 

[sambuca]

EagerBeaver, you are rationalizing why the girls offer "arrangements". It's really not necessary. No one here needs a rationale on why Montreal escorts do the work they do.

Besides the fact we don't require explanations, there's the countless girls who start out at 18 and on-line reviewers offering the common backstory of ambition, paying for college, etc. etc. Then you see the girl still escorting eight years later.

As I said Eager, I appreciate your insight. I have not been active on SA. What I have seen though is many U.S. girls on SA who seem bored, want to be entertained and pocket some cash. The further away a girl lives from the city the more common this profile. Attractive girl stuck in some low-paying job in some small town 100 miles from a city. No mention of college, sometimes a kid.

 

[EagerBeaver]

But aren’t you guys (EB and pat) saying the same thing?
For EB it’s about the game and for Patron(like most of us) it’s about the end game. One or the other, each to his own, no?

I think there is slightly more to it. I think to be blunt I find value to the nonsexual social companionship of women - dinner dates, sexy conversation and flirtation, and friendship (SA girls have done things for me outside the arrangement like having jewelry polished by their jeweler when I didn’t know one). The prelude to the act. Companionship of a nonsexual nature and all that entails. This part of it has value to me as well as the sex. And the value is that I want the companionship without permanent commitment.

For posters like Patron and STN, they want to fast forward directly to the sex and dispense with all the fluff that is a prelude to it. Women in their lives function as erstwhile receptacles for their semen and not much else. That is perhaps a crass and blunt way to put it, but it is what it is.

But it does all come back to whatever floats your boat.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Ok.... First off, EB do not make assumptions of how I treat ladies unless you want a reply like this We have met in the past, I can see why you use the term cheap ass a lot, you can not find a woman to be with you unless you spend a lot of money on them, you found that out at an early age.
Your thinking seems to be a little twisted, you have never had a non paid for relationship where the girl has to be with you or she does not get any money.
I am a realist, my last non paid for encounter about 4 months ago was with a bartender at the club I frequent, we knew each other well, had some laughs at the pub and decided to go out one night ** Now pay attention **. This is my idea of a night out, with someone who sees me without " Having to pay her ". You just do not get it, 90% of the male population would agree with me.
Any clown who looks like he could get a staring role in The Hobbit who pays for companionship can get laid, not much game needed.
When you have game you do not need money.
And for someone to offend me I have to respect the person, no harm here.
Just to add, I treat women with respect, always clean and always polite. I do not see a SP 1/3 my age to become friends and they do not want to be my friend, simple exchange of money for sex.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Me and STN will have to try this Crossfit one day so we can join the group.

Yeah, not interested in joining a group I do not agree with, very happy with the life I have, good friends, like my job kids are doing great.
If this was sarcasm well done.

 

[Red Paul]

A question for the experts on SA.

I notice that many of the girls have profiles listing their lifestyle as minimal, moderate, practical or open, while saying lower down that they're looking for a luxury lifestyle.

What's up with this?

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Yeah, not interested in joining a group I do not agree with, very happy with the life I have, good friends, like my job kids are doing great.
If this was sarcasm well done.

And yet, you continue to wax ignorant about something about which you know absolutely nothing. What are you doing in this thread beyond making a fool of yourself?

Most of us posting here are trying to share information that might be interesting to each other or instructive to those who want to know more about the experience. You, on the other hand, are here simply to disparage and, in a very nontransparent way, exhibiting a great deal of envy. It's very clear that you have anything but a happy life otherwise you would not bother. You have good friends? Hah, if you did you'd be spending your time with them and not proving yourself the fool in this thread.

 

[EagerBeaver]

I notice that many of the girls have profiles listing their lifestyle as minimal, moderate, practical or open, while saying lower down that they're looking for a luxury lifestyle.

What's up with this?

The classifications are arbitrary and most girls put no thought at all into completing them. "Negotiable" is the correct word to use for a lot of girls who actually select other arbitrary classifications. You make a big mistake if you use this criteria as a factor in determining who to message.

I have on occasion gotten some really crazy monetary requests from some ladies on SA. In that situation it is very easy on SA to hit the "next" button as there are always HUNDREDS of potential "nexts" and perhaps 15 actual "nexts" in my queue at any time when I am in searching mode. I ask them upfront what they will need or expect in terms of $ and do not waste time if they want something I am not willing to do, or is not close to my number.

Other ladies have insisted that they bring a friend and both of them get paid for a date. I have consistently rejected such requests. Not interested in duo dates or duo sex. However while in Montreal for one of the escort parties with 3 buddies, one of them, whom I have given the nickname Mr. Blue Balls in other posts, messaged two college roommates on SA and they joined the 4 of us for dinner at D'Emma. 2 girls, 4 guys for dinner at D'Emma. We ended up agreeing to split their cost 4 ways, which to be honest, I was not happy about, but I went along with it. Mr. BlueBalls later fucked both of them while me and the other 2 guys were not a part of that action. I assume Mr. BB paid them something additional for sex, but I never asked.

 

[EagerBeaver]

I can see why you use the term cheap ass a lot, you can not find a woman to be with you unless you spend a lot of money on them, you found that out at an early age.

This is total bullshit and all you are doing in this thread is trolling. Have I lived my life or have you done so? Last time I checked it was me inside my body. What I found out at an early age (early 30s) is that I did not want to be in long term or monogamous relationships- after being in them and not liking the feeling of being tied to one woman. How difficult is it to accept that some people prefer singlehood and do not want to have children and properly feel guilty about even thinking of bringing a child into today's world? In my mind marriage is pointless without a mutual intention to have or adopt children. I did not want that life.

I also do not spend "a lot of money." As I said many times already, I spend marginally more on SA than what I did on escorts, so this is just fiction and parroting things that were already refuted over and over. You do not want to hear or believe that people are able to pull off arrangements spending just a bit more than they did on escorts, when the reality is that the competition of SA keeps the cost of escorts down for guys like you. You should be thanking Rumples and other users of SA for keeping escort prices honest. In fact, I would go further and say that a tax should be levied against you for the price increases you are being protected from by the advent of the competition of SA, which you are not paying for. You are getting something for nothing- sort of like a welfare recipient. Although you pay for escorts, you do not pay SA for keeping your cost of escorts down.

Your posts in this thread are mostly troll posts, reek of jealousy, do not add anything except to say the same thing over and over (i.e., "there is no need to spend all that money", even though most of us are not spending much) and are probably believed to be such by most members here even without me saying as much. Patron, on the other hand, although a contrarian voice in this thread, has managed to add something to the thread with his posts.

 

[CaptRenault]

A question for the experts on SA.

I notice that many of the girls have profiles listing their lifestyle as minimal, moderate, practical or open, while saying lower down that they're looking for a luxury lifestyle.

What's up with this?

RP, I wouldn't read too much into this apparent disparity. Almost every woman on SA has a fantasy of finding a rich Prince Charming who will provide them with an significant monthly allowance and a "luxury lifestyle." Thats the fantasy.

At the same time, most (but not all) women are well aware of their relative value in the marketplace and so they pick some lifestyle expectation that sounds reasonable. Which one they pick is not that important. I don't even pay much attention to which one a woman selects unless it is one of the upper-end choices, i.e. "substantial" or "extravagant." I generally ignore those women.

Within certain parameters, everything is negotiable on SA. The "lifestyle" expectation posted by a woman is just a starting point in a negotiation. Even those women who choose a "lifestyle" expectation greater than "open," meaning they are hoping for (dreaming of, fantasizing about?) a fairly substantial monthly allowance, are often willing to work out a pay-per-meeting arrangement.

Though I would add that most women on SA do have a reasonable and justifiable expectation that if the two parties are satisfied with a pay-per-meeting arrangement, then it will be become a recurring relationship. Sugar babies generally do not want to work like an escort, i.e., taking on all comers (no pun intended :smile: ). They are willing to give "try-outs" to different guys but they usually want to settle on having one or more regulars.

 

[EagerBeaver]

At the same time, most (but not all) women are well aware of their relative value in the marketplace and so they pick some lifestyle expectation that sounds reasonable. Which one they pick is not that important. I don't even pay much attention to which one a woman selects unless it is one of the upper-end choices, i.e. "substantial" or "extravagant." I generally ignore those women..

CR,

Although I read the rest of your post and agree with all of the rest of it, this is the only part I disagree with, and I think it's because you are targeting older women than me and I am targeting young, and new college age girls.

Some 18-22 year olds, who have registered on SA within a month of being viewed, do not yet know the value of their ass on the SA market, so they select things like "substantial" or "extravagant." I have negotiated market price dates with such ladies. On the other hand, I just had one who was "Open" ask me for $500 for a platonic introductory date/ I quickly hit the "next" button. The girl is brand new and doesn't yet know her value and needs to learn it. In a year or so, she will probably take $100-$150 for an intro date but at the moment has not yet had to experience what the demand is for dates with her at that rate. She will figure it out but while she does, I just move on to the next one.

Also, a lot of guys make the mistake of believing that the girl's "fantasy" is what she is actually expecting. It's not what she is expecting. The lady who posted the Pretty Woman fantasy I posted earlier in this thread is not expecting Richard Gere to show up for a date. She is expecting someone with a non-judgmental attitude. She is expecting someone who is a gentleman and kind. That was all she was saying.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

My sense is that 90% of the women that I've communicated with were in the "Negotiable" category. My profile ends with "If you’re here because you want to finance experiences you might not be able to afford otherwise, or education, or because you’ve chosen a lifestyle/career that doesn’t fully support you, or just for help with living expenses, I might be your guy. If you’re here simply to satisfy an addiction to “stuff,” I’m probably not."

And with that, I hit the jackpot. She found me and started the conversation. She says now that she knew instantly that we were going to click.