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Loose Change Movie (MUST WATCH!!!!!) can be seen online free.

Merlot

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My_dingaling said:
- Steel frame buildings routinely collapse because of fire.
Completely untrue; And yet they found Atta's passport and a tied stewardess the very next day in the WTC wreckage ... bullshit! Some fire!
Everyone is expendable when gazillions are at play
Hello Dingaling,

Of course it melts if the necessary temperatures are used. How else could anyone make use of steel to make it into the necessary specific forms. Now, no investigation I have seen about 911 suggests the steel melted before the buildings fell. However, the shock of the impact of the planes knocked of the insulation and the heat from jet fuel and other combustible materials already present was enough to distort the steel supports. The weight of the structure and the intense heating of the steel combine to make bending of the steel possible. Once the steel is distorted the structure is weakened and the weight of the structure further weakens it's strength and stability until the building falls. After the fall the weight of all that compacted thousands of tons of materials could have acted like a blast furnace concentrating heat and temperature in a much more focused area that the original open building. Don't forget that any burning object gives off gases that can add to the intensity of the heat and temperature. That would account for the result of some molten steel in the aftermath. The area did have fires for several days after

Cheers,

Merlot
 
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JustBob

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Nov 19, 2004
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endless said:
this movie has been out for 2 years now,u guys should wake up!

As I said, they keep recutting the movie and taking out the "mistakes". The latest is the 3rd version of the film and has been completely reworked. Oh jeez... I wonder why... Maybe it's because all their claims have been thouroughly debunked. I expect version 10 to be about 30 sec. long. :)

Just one thing for the hell of it, it wasn't Atta's passport that was found. This had been initially reported by the news but was later corrected because it was false. They should add "How to Google" to the conspiracy theorist training curriculum...
 
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Kepler

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May 17, 2006
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Response to My_dingaling

Engineering textbooks have long warned about fire in steel structure buildings. HINT: It's why they put fire retardant foam on the steel beams!

Witnesses and photographs reveal small airplane and body parts all over the place. DNA analysis confirms the remains belonged to the plane passengers. Unless of course the coroner's entire staff are in on it too.

That Cessna in 1994 got past all White House defenses. But that's an inconvenient fact for conspiracy nuts. Fact is, government can be very incompetent. Now that's the really scary bit.


"Too many people know too much"??? You're saying they killed 3000 but couldn't find a way to kill a dozen of the initial "conspiracy investigators" before they spread the word?


Rumsfeld: No sane person would risk being anywhere near a building faced with that kind of explosion. Why risk it at all? If he knew it was coming he could have used any excuse to be anywhere else.

Plus of course there are the 9-1-1 cell phone records from the passengers on the 4th airplane. I heard many myself. Google for them.


"Everyone is expendable when gazillions are at play". This line reveals more about your thought processes than anything else.
 
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Kepler

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May 17, 2006
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My_dingaling said:
The "conspiracy" crowd is many many thousands strong by now.


No problem. Stalin killed millions of dissidents. I'm sure any government that planned 9/11 will have no problem getting to you sooner or later.

Hey, any chance I can get a reward for turning you in?



PS: Boo!
 

Techman

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Dec 23, 2004
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My_dingaling said:
Yet of the many raging infernos in steel framed skyscrapers around the world none are reported to collapse like these two on a single day.... and you can explain the third WTC building (about the height of 1PVM)... no fire.

Really? Is this a common occurence? I can't really remember too many of those myself, can't think of any actually. And if by chance you can find an example or two, how many of them were caused by airplanes hitting them carrying a full load of jet fuel? Bet you can't find even one!

So you choose to half-baked story reported by the US govt?
Now I understand how debates with My_Dingaling loose credibility when they are so ill prepared.

Half baked story? I saw the video of the planes hitting the buildings. Actually saw a live broadcast while the second plane hit behind the reporter who was talking about the first plane. Or was it all actually just a special effect and mass hallucination caused by LSD vapors pumped into the streets of NY while it was all supposed to be happening?

"Too many people know too much"??? You're saying they killed 3000 but couldn't find a way to kill a dozen of the initial "conspiracy investigators" before they spread the word?
You said it : govt is incompetent. The "conspiracy" crowd is many many thousands strong by now.
The 9-11 commission spent less time and money on it investigation than investigating Clinton's Oval office sex....

That's because Clinton's sexual escapades actually were a real event, unlike your conspiracy which is a fantasy.

T.
 

Merlot

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My_dingaling said:
Yet of the many raging infernos in steel framed skyscrapers around the world none are reported to collapse like these two on a single day.... and you can explain the third WTC building (about the height of 1PVM)... no fire.

Hello Dingaling,

Your truck bomb theory was tried in 1993. "A Ryder truck filled with 1,500 pounds (680 kg) of explosives was planted by Ramzi Yousef and detonated in the underground garage of the North Tower."

According to a very long and detailed documentary on the unique collapse of the Twin Towers in New York these building were not built like others. In the course of design to be sure all the tower space could be filled (rented out) towers of this height normally had to be overly-reinforced to bear the weight safely. But in this case, in order not to limit open space through heavy reinforcement columns throughout the building, they were designed so that the outer skin did the work of the more usual inner reinforcement. The fatal flaw was that when this skin was so severely and broadly damage by the tremendous airplane blasts the key support from the outer skin was gone. The fire bent the steel supports and the whole thing twisted and collapsed like one crushes a beer can by stepping on it.

Just found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center

The tube-frame design, earlier introduced by Fazlur Khan, was a new approach which allowed open floor plans rather than columns distributed throughout the interior to support building loads as had traditionally been done. The World Trade Center towers utilized high-strength, load-bearing perimeter steel columns called Vierendeel trusses that were spaced closely together to form a strong, rigid wall structure, supporting virtually all lateral loads such as wind loads, and sharing the gravity load with the core columns. The perimeter structure containing 59 columns per side was constructed with extensive use of prefabricated modular pieces each consisting of three columns, three stories tall, connected by spandrel plates.[26] The spandrel plates were welded to the columns to create the modular pieces off-site at the fabrication shop.[27] Adjacent modules were bolted together with the splices occurring at mid-span of the columns and spandrels. The spandrel plates were located at each floor, transmitting shear stress between columns, allowing them to work together in resisting lateral loads. The joints between modules were staggered vertically so the column splices between adjacent modules were not at the same floor.[26]

I have not seen this film. If it is like the Da Vinci Code then it's a fictional redefinition of existing real elements constructed to create an arrangement of almost believable, but fake history.

Cheers,

Merlot
 
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ocean

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Dec 12, 2006
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have not seen this film. If it is like the Da Vinci Code then it's a fictional redefinition of existing real elements constructed to create an arrangement of almost believable, but fake history.

Why don't you see Loose Chagne the movie for free on youtube, then give an opinion.
 

Techman

The Grim Reaper
Dec 23, 2004
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ocean said:
OH AND BY THE WAY WHY ARE THE HIJACKERS STILL ALIVE !!!!!!!!!!!

Think I am a loonie for saying this :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm





WATCH LOOSE CHANGE THE MOVIE (link below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yx9NRX37SM

All that shows is that there were problems identifying exactly who the hijackers were. Considering that they couldn't exactly id them from their remains and add the ease of stealing or falsifying identification documents, it's no big surprise. Also the news story you are linking to is from 12 days after the event happened and there was hardly enough time at that point to properly identify anyone involved so it is normal that errors were made.

So if you have a screw loose, watch Loose Change and you might actually believe it. At least until someone bothers to break this version down and discredit it. Assuming that anyone really cares enough to do so at this point in time. The way these guys are going, by version 10 it will be disclosed that the planes were actually hijacked and piloted by Bigfoot. And considering that no one has ever proven that Bigfoot doesn't exist either, I feel that it is a logical progression.:cool:

T.
 

ocean

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Dec 12, 2006
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Umm, ok what were the names of teh real hijackers then??

rememer 19 middle easterners have to take on teh identity of 19 other middle eaterners who were booked on the flight, and if you are going to die, why would you try to protect your true identity? Its not like yo ar egoing to use it anymore.
 
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JustBob

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Nov 19, 2004
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Why it is a waste of time and an exercise in futility to try and have a rational, intelligent, logical discussion with conspiracy theorists:

10 Characteristics of Conspiracy Theorists

1. Arrogance. They are always fact-seekers, questioners, people who are trying to discover the truth: sceptics are always "sheep", patsies for Messrs Bush and Blair etc.

2. Relentlessness. They will always go on and on about a conspiracy no matter how little evidence they have to go on or how much of what they have is simply discredited. (Moreover, as per 1. above, even if you listen to them ninety-eight times, the ninety-ninth time, when you say "no thanks", you'll be called a "sheep" again.) Additionally, they have no capacity for concision whatsoever. They go on and on at enormous length.

3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they're pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.

4. Fondness for certain stock phrases. These include Cicero's "cui bono?" (of which it can be said that Cicero understood the importance of having evidence to back it up) and Conan Doyle's "once we have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth". What these phrases have in common is that they are attempts to absolve themselves from any responsibility to produce positive, hard evidence themselves: you simply "eliminate the impossible" (i.e. say the official account can't stand scrutiny) which means that the wild allegation of your choice, based on "cui bono?" (which is always the government) is therefore the truth.

5. Inability to employ or understand Occam's Razor. Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.

6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.

7. Inability to withdraw. It's a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it. Moreover they have a liking (see 3. above) for the technique of avoiding discussion of their claims by "swamping" - piling on a whole lot more material rather than respond to the objections sceptics make to the previous lot.

8. Leaping to conclusions. Conspiracy theorists are very keen indeed to declare the "official" account totally discredited without having remotely enough cause so to do. Of course this enables them to wheel on the Conan Doyle quote as in 4. above. Small inconsistencies in the account of an event, small unanswered questions, small problems in timing of differences in procedure from previous events of the same kind are all more than adequate to declare the "official" account clearly and definitively discredited. It goes without saying that it is not necessary to prove that these inconsistencies are either relevant, or that they even definitely exist.

9. Using previous conspiracies as evidence to support their claims. This argument invokes scandals like the Birmingham Six, the Bologna station bombings, the Zinoviev letter and so on in order to try and demonstrate that their conspiracy theory should be accorded some weight (because it's “happened before”.) They do not pause to reflect that the conspiracies they are touting are almost always far more unlikely and complicated than the real-life conspiracies with which they make comparison, or that the fact that something might potentially happen does not, in and of itself, make it anything other than extremely unlikely.

10. It's always a conspiracy. And it is, isn't it? No sooner has the body been discovered, the bomb gone off, than the same people are producing the same old stuff, demanding that there are questions which need to be answered, at the same unbearable length. Because the most important thing about these people is that they are people entirely lacking in discrimination. They cannot tell a good theory from a bad one, they cannot tell good evidence from bad evidence and they cannot tell a good source from a bad one. And for that reason, they always come up with the same answer when they ask the same question.

A person who always says the same thing, and says it over and over again is, of course, commonly considered to be, if not a monomaniac, then at very least, a bore.
 

misunderstood

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Strong opinions

(In reply to My_dingaling's post)

You sound like a preacher.Everyone is entitled to their opinions or beliefs and you accuse others of blindly believing the official report when you are far more extremist in your approach and what you believe to be true.We all need to trust someone at some point and so do you.Every single human being lies at some point which is why you can never be 100% certain of what you hear or see and that applies to everyone,including you my_dingaling!
 
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Merlot

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Nov 13, 2008
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My_dingaling said:
But I couldn't possibly be lying if all I do is question the stories we're being told.

The day Bush announced he was launching an invasion on Iraq because he was fed up with the delays in haning over the WMD's, I said 'bullshit!' It was as clear as the nose on your face (assuming you have a nose of course and if you don't anymore, I'm sorry for bringing up the awful accident to your head).

So now, when you put all the facts (actual facts that neither you nor I would disagree on) together, the story seems to have too many open switches.
That leads most intelligent people to at least question....

I nor most people I know had never heard of Osama Bin Laden before Sept 11 2001 and at around noon that day, he became a household name.... I'm just questionning still.

Get it?

Hello Dingaling,

Osama Bin Laden has been a known entity since the Reagen administration helped arm the Mujahideen in Afghanistan after the Soviets invaded that country in 1978. Unfortunately, the average person worries more about the Enquirer and Area 51 than real news. I can't remember when I first heard of him, but it was very early in the 80s when the U.S.government helped make him known as one of the leaders of resistance against the Soviets. After Afghanistan he become very active in various attacks including U.S. targets and had been pursued around the world by the U.S. and other governments around the world and had been pressured out of various countries for his terrorist activities. Even some Arab countries had tried to capture and arrest him long before 911. Frankly, it should have been impossible not to know of him if one payed any attention to news of world terrorism after about 1992. He has been so fully involved in terrorism, and the known ringleader of Al Qaeda before 911 you couldn't miss him.

We all know now that Bush either distorted the information his administration used to justify invading Iraq, or used parts that supported his view. The fact the Bush was determined to invade Iraq regardless of real justification is no revelation and hasn't been practically since the start of the invasion in 2003.

As for Ocean's assertions, one should never underestimate any government's capacity for sheer simple ineptitude, especially when issues are politicized and used like pawns for leverage by one party or another; such as the infamous (in 1998 I believe) when we had Bin Laden cornered in Afghanistan and the Republicans screamed about Clinton using a covert operation to divert attention from the Lewinsky episode. Many errors were made leading to 911. But, it was politics, missed intelligence opportunities, and pure stupidity at times...not deliberate conspiracy.

Cheers,

Merlot

PS

I did watch a 5 minute version on the link posted. It's far too little for a fair case on the alleged conspiracy, but I saw nothing that makes me more curious.
 
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JustBob

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Nov 19, 2004
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Al Quaeda and international terrorism were not a topic of discussion in the US media prior to 9/11. It's not at all surprising that the overwhelming majority of the population had never heard of him prior to that event.
 

ocean

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Dec 12, 2006
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Whatever opinions people have on this thread I hope that people are forming there opinions AFTER WATCHING LOOSE CHANGE the movie (freee to watch on youtube or video.google.com).

As for myself, I still want to know what are the names of the real hijackers, and why has the us goverment only liberated people that have oil or are in proximity of it? I find it odd though asking two very legitimate questions, people have made a Dave Letterman's top ten about conspiracy theorists or making assumptions I am one. I believe in science, I have never believed any conspiracy theories before today, but I find that hard to accept coincidence A over coincidence B over coincidence C.
 

JustBob

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Nov 19, 2004
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ocean said:
Hi I would like people's opinions about Loose Change the movie . It can be seen online for free, please take the time to watch the movie till the end it is really really really absolutely worth it. Thanks.

please follow link :

Hmmm...

ocean said:
WATCH LOOSE CHANGE THE MOVIE (link below)

And...

ocean said:
Why don't you see Loose Chagne the movie for free on youtube

Wellll...

ocean said:
Whatever opinions people have on this thread I hope that people are forming there opinions AFTER WATCHING LOOSE CHANGE the movie (freee to watch on youtube or video.google.com).

Would you like to hear my theory on you and your purpose for starting this thread?

... :) ...
 

Techman

The Grim Reaper
Dec 23, 2004
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My opinion is that the guys who made Loose Change have a few loose screws.

If you want the names of the hijackers, why don't you do some of your own research and find them out for yourself. Of course no matter what you find, there will never be any sure fire way to prove that what you find is accurate considering that there is no way to identify their remains. Actually, I don't think that there were any remains to identify.

But hope remains...Osama released a new audio tape today so you could always give him a call and ask him.:cool:

T.
 

Merlot

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JustBob said:
Al Quaeda and international terrorism were not a topic of discussion in the US media prior to 9/11. It's not at all surprising that the overwhelming majority of the population had never heard of him prior to that event.

Hello JB,

I'm not surprised either. I mean the guy wears robes and a turban. If he had sexed it up like Britney Spears or exposed himself like Janet Jackson more people would have paid attention. Silly me, I actually took some time to pay attention to the news when I should have been indulging in jacking off to hot singer videos or playing video games.

But, Al Qaeda has been around since at least 1989. There was the Fatwa (edict and declaration of war) issued in 1996 to kill Americans. By 1998 Al Qaeda had focused attacks on American targets. Then there were several U.S. embassy bombings particularly known and broadcast as being by Al Qaeda, and the well publicized attack on the USS Cole was in October 2000, making world headlines and dominating U.S. news for some time. So yeah, I completely understand how nearly everyone missed all of this...NO SEX! If only Bin laden had shown the world a little ass or breast during a Super Bowl halftime show the world might have been warned...DAMN !

Cheers,

Merlot
 
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