Montreal just banned pit bulls.

[hungry101]

This is the owner:


I do agree with you that in this case, he will not be charge. He is not responsable for the dog finding it's way out. He is only responsable for being too stupid to own a pitbull, and there is probably no remedy to that.
Cheers,

The scumbag POS was an irresponsible owner. Are you telling me that if my dog causes a fatality I am not responsible because his leash broke or something like that? You are responsible for your dog. If the dog got out he should have been locked in a crate and inside the apartment or tethered to something. I think the stupid ass should be charged with manslaughter. If you don't want to be charged with manslaughter you put a potentially dangerous dog down. If you are giddy about your intimidating dog and your dog kills a woman on her own property you go to jail.

I am glad that in the US, in most cities and states not run by Democrats, you can lawfully carry a concealed sidearm. Here woman have an alternative to living in fear of a violent scumbag and his viscous dog. If that dog would of come after me he would have been an ex-dog.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Unfortunately this is exactly why pit bulls are being banned, far too many thugs and bad people own pit bulls, and they are not trained as loveable family pets.

I learned not too long ago from a study that most pitbull owners are redneck-types with little dicks and self-esteem issues. No big deal. But i'm volunteer to throw those murdering beasts into the giant meat grinder that my uncle owns. Kill 'em all!!!!!!

 

[lgna69xxx]

Careful my friend, guns don't protect, they only kill............at least according to the nutjobs aka libs


Bang! ound:

I have come to the conclusion that libbys seriously need to get laid more lol

The scumbag POS was an irresponsible owner. Are you telling me that if my dog causes a fatality I am not responsible because his leash broke or something like that? You are responsible for your dog. If the dog got out he should have been locked in a crate and inside the apartment or tethered to something. I think the stupid ass should be charged with manslaughter. If you don't want to be charged with manslaughter you put a potentially dangerous dog down. If you are giddy about your intimidating dog and your dog kills a woman on her own property you go to jail.

I am glad that in the US, in most cities and states not run by Democrats, you can lawfully carry a concealed sidearm. Here woman have an alternative to living in fear of a violent scumbag and his viscous dog. If that dog would of come after me he would have been an ex-dog.

 

[hungry101]

I learned not too long ago from a study that most pitbull owners are redneck-types with little dicks and self-esteem issues. No big deal. But i'm volunteer to throw those murdering beasts into the giant meat grinder that my uncle owns. Kill 'em all!!!!!!

Rednecks? I think every inner city black thug has one or two in the USA. Many Michael Vick wanna-bes.

 

[Titilleur]

What do you get when you cross a shih-tzu with a pitbull?

You guessed it...

You guet bullshit!

 

[EagerBeaver]

The scumbag POS was an irresponsible owner. Are you telling me that if my dog causes a fatality I am not responsible because his leash broke or something like that? You are responsible for your dog. If the dog got out he should have been locked in a crate and inside the apartment or tethered to something. I think the stupid ass should be charged with manslaughter. If you don't want to be charged with manslaughter you put a potentially dangerous dog down. If you are giddy about your intimidating dog and your dog kills a woman on her own property you go to jail.

I am glad that in the US, in most cities and states not run by Democrats, you can lawfully carry a concealed sidearm. Here woman have an alternative to living in fear of a violent scumbag and his viscous dog. If that dog would of come after me he would have been an ex-dog.

The discussion was about criminal liability, not civil liability. On the civil side he is or should be 100% responsible for damages for wrongful death. But criminal liability for damage caused by one's dog, when the owner is absent and merely negligent, as opposed to asking the dog to attack, is something I have never seen.

 

[EagerBeaver]

What do you get when you cross a shih-tzu with a pitbull?

You guessed it...

You guet bullshit!

It would be an interesting breed. They are considered to be among the best watchdogs as they are very vigilant/observant about their surroundings and fiercely protective of and loyal to their owners. The one I know, however, has nervous breakdowns whenever a thunderstorm approaches and has to be put in a safe room. The thunder is what seems to bother the dog, and the theory is that her ears are sensitive to the sounds.

 

[Passionné]

Why were pit bulls bred? It's rare that a breed exists by accident. Here is what a few seconds of research uncovers. "Today's pit bull is a descendant of the original English bull-baiting dog—a dog that was bred to bite and hold bulls, bears and other large animals around the face and head. When baiting large animals was outlawed in the 1800s, people turned instead to fighting their dogs against each other."

Okay, so they were bred to be dominating tools that could generate great force and aggression, tools that act on instinct not just command. They were bred to dominate other animals hundreds of pounds larger than a human being. This is not a pet to be taken out among people and be expected to act docile all the time. Their genetic makeup and especially their brains were designed to be used like a weapon...on purpose. Not that pit bulls cannot be docile for a very long time and raised to be so, but any dog can have triggers that cause them to snap and this breed is particularly capable of inflicting serious harm by accident if they get an impulse to react aggressively as they were particularly bred to be. Put into the mix irresponsible owners and individual animals more aggressive than others and they can only be more dangerous.

You are responsible for your dog. If the dog got out he should have been locked in a crate and inside the apartment or tethered to something. I think the stupid ass should be charged with manslaughter. If you don't want to be charged with manslaughter you put a potentially dangerous dog down. If you are giddy about your intimidating dog and your dog kills a woman on her own property you go to jail.

I'm not sure about manslaughter. That might not be too far fetched though. However the rest is pretty reasonable. Everyone is responsible for handling what they choose to own. A car for instance. Negligence with a car carries penalties. Sometimes penalties like prison. You control it and yourself and keep the situation safe. Owning a dog should be no different, especially a breed that was purposely designed to attack and dominate animals much larger than itself without fear.

I am glad that in the US, in most cities and states not run by Democrats, you can lawfully carry a concealed sidearm. Here woman have an alternative to living in fear of a violent scumbag and his viscous dog. If that dog would of come after me he would have been an ex-dog.

The police who have been killed in a run of recent incidents all had guns and it was their job to be on alert and ready. After the start of these incidents police were especially on alert and some have still been killed despite training. So where does that leave the average citizen carrying a gun who probably lacks any but initial obligatory training, if that last word fits only superficially to satisfy law requirements.

Carrying guarantees nothing. In any case how do you know you'd be ready in the moment? How do you know you get a chance to react? A dog, especially a pit bull, bred to be aggressive wouldn't even recognize the threat of a gun or be deterred by it in the least, especially pit bulls who were specifically bred not to fear much larger dangerous animals. If either the human carrying a gun or the dog is more likely to flinch, even if the human knows what's about to happen, it's 100% the human who in the more likely to fail to react without flinching or fear. Any person "carrying" better have that gun in hand up and cocked or pray you have time to get it or the dog isn't as in full attack mode as it's likely be when it's a threat if you can see that threat coming at the time.

 

[talkinghead]

Perhaps it's not surprising that this thread has turned into a proxy conversation on race, class, and gun control. And like the political dialogue ("dialogue") we're seeing in the US, the issues are more complicated than blaming owners or blaming breeds, blaming one demographic or blaming one political party. First, there is evidence that some dog breeds are more likely to be involved in attacks (biting, mauling) than other breeds; and there is evidence that some breeds are capable of inflicting more harm than other breeds. Second, I think it's obvious to anyone who has lived with dogs and knows dog breeds that behavior is a combination of genetics and environment, nature and nurture. Of course we need responsible owners--that goes for any dog, any pet. And of course, as Passionne points out, dog breeds are bred, sometimes over centuries, for certain traits, physical characteristics, and temperaments. There's a reason that some breeds make better watch dogs, some breeds make better herding dogs, some breeds make better hunting dogs, and so on. Putting aside the fact that Goldens and Border Collies are less likely to have aggressive temperaments than Pit Bulls, the fact remains that Pit Bulls are capable of causing far more harm--bred as they have been for tenacity, jaw strength, and (to some extent) fighting. Third, dogs are not guns. They are animals, and as such they have histories, both individual and breed-wide. My guess is that a responsible owner who buys a Pit Bull from a responsible breeder and trains it as a puppy will have a wonderful pet. But because of the breed's popularity (and, sorry, popularity among too many dog owners who are not prepared to train their dogs), there are far too many shelter and rescue Pit Bulls--whose history may not be fully known, and whose aggressive tendencies may not show up until triggered by a specific situation. I've seen very responsible owners with dogs that bite.

I don't know if there is a problem in Montreal with dog attacks, nor do I know if Pit Bulls are significantly more likely to be involved (thought that wouldn't be statistically surprising). But if there is a problem, it would be interesting to consider how to address it rather than argue politics. Do we require some breeds to wear muzzles and be leashed at all times? Do we require their owners to do dog school? Do we ban specific breeds or a range of breeds? Do we say that certain people can't own certain dogs? Do we euthanize any dog with an unknown history?

 

[jalimon]

Careful my friend, guns don't protect, they only kill............at least according to the nutjobs aka libs


Bang! ound:

I have come to the conclusion that libbys seriously need to get laid more lol

True, the ratio of people (many kids) hurt or killed accidently by gun is skyhigh versus people defending themselves.

Cheers,

p.s. I cannot get laid more... I am already a seriously laid "back" kind of guy

 

[Doggyluver]

If all of the members in favour of killing all dogs, cats and various pets and in particular Pit Bull's and the same hard on for women as you do for the killing of specific breeds of animals, there would be a lot of satisfied women in our fair city. Unfortunately I doubt that's the case and this is your way of demonstrating your male prowess. To make an assumption about Maria's Chihuahua, "Maria's chihuahua is probably a nasty little dog and I would not stick fingers too close to it's mouth, but it's not likely to kill anyone. " makes no sense what so ever.
Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
If it were up to me pitbulls should all be put into a meat grinder. Sorry, but i've seen with my own eyes what damage these killing beats can do and if some of you would have seen what i did, you'd feel differently about these killer dogs.

What I want to know Doc H is where exactly did you see the damage these "Killer Beasts" can do ? It drives me crazy when people make statements that can't be backed up.

I own two large dogs, not Pit Bulls but large none the less. They will eat anything that gets dropped on the floor, so what, it's my floor, not yours so mind your own business. The get up on the couch in my home, it's their home too, not yours or anyone else s, if you don't like it, stay away, they live here, not you ! Yes, they do get on my bed from time to time and they shed their hair and it has to be vacuumed up on a daily basis, so what, my problem not yours. If you visit, they will greet you with tails wagging and expecting a pat, you don't like dogs and don't like them coming to greet you, stay home, don't visit my home. I feed them excellent food (which I pay for not you) and give them treats. They are my family, more loyal than any human has ever been in my life. They don't judge me nor anyone who does come to visit, they afford me love and attention and demand very little in return. I also have a cat who is more independent than the dogs but who also demands attention now and then, are you allergic to cats and dogs, stay away I will not seclude my animals so that you can come to visit, it's their home first, you are a visitor, period. I have friends who just don't like pets, they don't visit. I also thankfully have friends who love my dogs and they are always welcome and enjoy the time with mine as some of them because of the living arrangements can't have pets in their homes.
It's time for you to be respectful of the rights of those who wish to have pets and are willing to train and control them and be responsible owners. We pet owners have rights too and they should be respected. Dogs should be walked on a leash, they should be under control and the owners should be responsible for their animals , but to slaughter ALL dogs because you are afraid of them.......sounds pretty small minded if you want my opinion.

 

[cloudsurf]

Hey DL
I agree a 100% with your opinions.
BTW I always thought your handle was based on your favourite position. I guess its for that and an appreciation of man`s best friend too.
Doc`s best friend is a cold beer....lol
This ban is political....pure and simple.
More people are killed by lightning each year than killed by pit bulls .
The sad thing is that a million times more dogs are killed by humans than the other way around....

To answer UB....yes I`d stop for ducks crossing the road but first I would check in the rear view mirror to make sure no one was tailgating me.

 

[Mr. Rhino]

Pit bulls are one ugly dog.

 

[Maria Divina]

..........
To make an assumption about Maria's Chihuahua, "Maria's chihuahua is probably a nasty little dog and I would not stick fingers too close to it's mouth, but it's not likely to kill anyone. " makes no sense what so ever.

.........

I think EB wanted to demonstrate live what is happening in Montreal now with the pitbulls:
It is just wrong to say that all subjects of a canine race will act exactly the same way.

It's time for you to be respectful of the rights of those who wish to have pets and are willing to train and control them and be responsible owners. We pet owners have rights too and they should be respected. Dogs should be walked on a leash, they should be under control and the owners should be responsible for their animals , but to slaughter ALL dogs because you are afraid of them.......sounds pretty small minded if you want my opinion.

Yes, that's a stupid ban, I think it might be the short cut to resolve the problem with big protective dogs: Maybe they should be an automatic inscription to dog courses/tutorials/training and/or maybe a serious evaluation of the future owner to have the right to have that kind of dog, because they could be seen as kind of "live weapons" if well trained for that.
Why not make sure the people are just having a good past record and not having bad intentions, and really knowing what it is to have that responsibility?

I just say some quick suggestions.

Do you know that the singer Cindy Lauper started a petition against Montreal city and to say to eventual tourists to not come here because of that pitbull ban?

You're talking about a way to be talked about internationally. :doh:

PS: just to make things maybe more clear, that's not only ONE dog that I live with, but 2. Plus some cats. I feed the fabulous wild birds outside also, and all around where I am living, there's horses. So, nope, I am not living in the big city. And one of the reasons why I choose to live here is exactly having a natural peace, including with my dogs. Everybody is having dogs, and my other little dog likes so much to visit the others all around of the neighbourhood . Oh gush, too much friendly this one. hahaha If I was not living with them, I would feel so lonely sometimes, and big bonus, they are all protecting myself. Cats catching the eventual mice, by example. Dogs, even so small, are having very good ears, and they could waking me up during the night if something strange is happening. But there real job is to be my happy companions.
All of them. Nothing beats there level of implication towards me.

So I can understand the despair of the pitbull owners now. I'm sure they are going to find a way to not make that law stay.

 

[jalimon]

Maybe they should be an automatic inscription to dog courses/tutorials/training and/or maybe a serious evaluation of the future owner to have the right to have that kind of dog, because they could be seen as kind of "live weapons" if well trained for that.

Exactly, it's the owner that we need to work on. Ontario has a ban on pitbull since 2005. Guess what, there was more dog bite than ever last year. The ban did not help at all.

Cheers,

 

[EagerBeaver]

Exactly, it's the owner that we need to work on. Ontario has a ban on pitbull since 2005. Guess what, there was more dog bite than ever last year. The ban did not help at all.

Cheers,

There are other breeds responsible for many bites (including chihuahua and I have a chihuahua case right now), but as noted previously, pit bulls have a very powerful jaw and inflict a heavy bite that can take huge chunks of meat right out of your thigh.

I will say of all the dogbite cases I have seen the worst one was a Doberman which bit the nose off a person. But Doberman has not been banned so far.

I think the SPCA has some very good arguments and I will be curious to see how the Court rules.

 

[UncleBob]

Ontario has a ban on pitbull since 2005. Guess what, there was more dog bite than ever last year. The ban did not help at all.

What about human killed by dogs count? What about Child disfiguration Count? Is it still the same after Pits Ban in Ontario?

 

[jalimon]

What about human killed by dogs count? What about Child disfiguration Count? Is it still the same after Pits Ban in Ontario?

Correct, upon further reading, it seems you are absolutely correct. Maybe dog bite went up but the gravity of the victim is surely less than if those were from pitbull. I say maybe because the province's data collection was and is still very bad. Most probably on purpose.

Myself I have own 3 labs so far. My next one will probably be a border colly. I was attack once (when I was 7) by a doberman. And later on a German Sheppard scared the shit out of me. I will always stick to Labs and Colly

Cheers,

 

[talkinghead]

I also got interested in the new report on Ontario. And you're both right--while the number of total bites did go up, the number of pit bull bites fell off the map. So, as you both point out, the data (and the news report) are hard to interpret. Is there *any* correlation between the pit bull ban and the *increase* in dog bites? Unlikely. A better question (as you both point out) is: are dog bites generally less severe under the ban? If there was a significant decrease in the severity of injury under the ban, then that would be interesting.

Also, as I think this thread shows, those who have either been attacked or had friends attacked (as I have) may have a different perspective. Like jalimon, I stick to the friendly, goofy, sweet breed of dogs.

 

[cloudsurf]

Also, as I think this thread shows, those who have either been attacked or had friends attacked (as I have) may have a different perspective. Like jalimon, I stick to the friendly, goofy, sweet breed of dogs.

Not always the case. My friend and I were attacked by a German Sheppard bitch that was protecting her pups. I ran faster than my friend and he got a large chunk of meat ripped off his leg. He and I still love German Sheppards .
Also I was once attacked by a pack of wild dogs in the Dominican Republic. I picked up a large rock and threw it at the Alpha male and the pack scattered. Still love dogs.