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Montreal Rules for HDH entertainment...

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E B Samaritano

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It is my considered opinion that at this point in tiime that Montreal is the absolute Mecca for HDH entertainment. For an individual with upscale tastes who wants a no compromise experience, I know of no place in North America that rivals Montreal. As I have asserted before, the market rate escorts in Montreal are in the decline and I see no reason to travel to this location for the purpose of entertaining this class of companion. This observation of course will be refuted by locals for whom the market rate is an established norm. I submit that although the rate is established, the "famous" service levels at that rate as well as the overall quality of escort in terms of appearance has taken a serious downturn. Discriminating individuals visiting the area would be well advised to not waste their time at market rate establishments in Montreal. On the other hand, market rate in Toronto is indeed the sweet spot. The eastern europeans keep things interesting in this market and there are a number of absolutely superb offerrings at the 220 level that compare quite favorably in service. Value plays in upscale entertainment in Toronto continue to be problematic in my opinion. There is no reason to spend 300 bucks as a base rate in Toronto. There is every reason to spend that money in Montreal to obtain the ultimate experience.

EBS
 
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dakull

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The Market Rate?

He is back,and you love him or hate him,no middle ground,or is there?HD Escorts, middle of the road,like Asservissante,or bargin basement like Super Choice. Things change all the time and while the HD ladies may be more stable,there are great buys out there,that a little research will yeild. Guys think of the NFL Draft, get the best at the position,or best at what price you can afford, same as Escorts, now EB, and CS.Martin may sign the #1 picks,but Joe Motana was a 8th round pick,you get the idea.
 

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Gotta agree with GS

Well, gotta agree with EBS- you get what you pay for. I am local and have seen prices go from $120-$150 for the likes of a Chanel (SD) to $450-500 for a Chrystelle. Still a deal in US$. (and WAY better than blowing $250 in WANDA's). In fact one former SP I used to "hang with" was in Thursday's the other night at $500!!/hr. Which reminds me when I approched a lady there 8 yrs ago..I said in English "I am a lawyer from T.O.....ok$300........saw her later again downstairs...I spoke French....ca va, combien?- je suis un gar d'Montreal (ok cherie-$150....). If you find a babe at $150 JUMP-cause it won't take her long to figure it all out. happy hunting, frenchie
 

Doc Holliday

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Sex vs Sports

Great post, Eager4Beaver.

It is true that there is quite a parallel between the way an agency is run and pro sports. I had never actually realized this until reading your post. You make a great case.

The way i look at it, i'd say Joe Montana also spoke english, while a Ryan Leaf might not. Speaking english is a must when wanting to play in the NFL. Many Joe Montana wannabes would like to graduate from college onto the NFL, and at times have outperformed him. However, because of their extreme difficulty in mastering the english language, they have to remain being the Ryan Leafs of the biz.

As for what EBS said, i have to agree with what he says. However, he takes it from the perspective of someone hobbying from the outside, willing to spend major bucks on his encounters. Not everyone shares his philosophy, or can for the matter. He is the George Steinbrenner of baseball franchises. The Mike Ilitch of the NHL. Many hobbyists visiting Mtl are the Oakland A's of the biz, or the Ottawa Senators of the NHL. They simply cannot afford to spend as much as some do. Others do have the bucks, but prefer to stick to a strict budget. They are the Marge Schotts of baseball, and the Jeremy Jacobs of the NHL. People with a lot of money and revenue, but extremely cheap.

"Arnold sucks!"
 

Doc Holliday

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French sp's for francophone 'johns'

Good post, FD. You make valid points.

It is a known fact that a french-speaking client will get more mileage and a better attitude with a french-speaking sp than someone speaking strictly english would. I state this with low to mid-range agencies/sps in mind. The fact both parties are both fluent in french adds to the chemistry, which is normal, and the young ladies feel like a big load is lifted off their shoulders when they discover upon arrival that their client also is fluent in french. It's actually common to hear them state, during the date: ""it almost feels like i'm with a friend i've known for a while." Actually, i've heard this line from ladies in the HDH sector, who are used to seeing mostly english-speaking clients.

Bottom line: speaking french fluently can be a huge asset when dealing with low ends. The date almost seems like a HDH type-of-date because of it.
 

donbusch

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FD's system should work pretty well for a local with enough time on his hands. I'm sure there's a fairly large pool of attractive, unilingual SPs out there, the only problem is that these gems aren't going to be shared on the board anytime soon :D

But as to whether one can find such an SP who is equivalent to a HDH is controversial since it has to do with how a person values money versus other goods and what one expects from a HDH in terms of intelligence, looks, language skills, service, elegance, personality, etc. In fact, much of the debate on whether paying CAD450+/2hrs for an escort makes sense stems essentially from disagreements over these points.

Further complicating the basic point of 'What is a higher-end escort?' is the fact that there are an increasing number of escorts who think they are worth CAD450+/2hrs.

Also among the higher-priced agencies, there are several who attract attention with one or two top performers and then try to capitalize on that fame by padding their selections with similarly priced escorts who are clearly inferior to the stars. In fact, a now-retired higher-end and very popular escort whom I spent quite a lot of time with, once told me matter of factly that she didn't even have to give her agency a single cent out of her earnings because the agency was perfectly happy with all the publicity it got from simply having her in their line up and that on many occasions, clients who couldn't secure an appointment with her went on to see the other escorts in the agency.

Considering all these factors, should it comes as a surprise why there is so much confusion over the definition of a higher-end escort?
 

MatureGentleman

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HDH vs. LDL -- The test...

I have never hobbied in Montreal, so I speak from a position of near-complete ignorance. On the other hand, I have had the good fortune of having seen (and traveled with) a number of Montreal's most well-regarded HDH ladies. So I appreciate what gems these ladies can be...

On the other hand, I love to roll the dice and taste the thrill of the unknown. I live in Boston and generally prefer the part-timers and UTR ladies. Not only are they generally less expensive, but also they tend to see fewer clients. So I don't ever feel like I'm batting clean-up...

I have watched the many threads on HDH vs. LDL with great interest. I can see very valid reasons to prefer both paths. And I agree that one's circumstances (visitor vs. local, French-speaking vs. English-only, lots of hobbying funds vs. little) certainly color one's perspective.

But next month I have my first-ever business trip to Montreal and have three evenings (and some day time) to play. It is very tempting to just filter the spreadsheet (Robin, thank you again!) for 5-5-5 GFEs and thereby virtually guarantee myself great experiences. But the adventurer in me rebels at the notion. And the contributor in me is nauseated by the thought of so much taking and so little giving back...

So I have an experiment in mind... I have a fondness for slim black ladies (as I do for many other ethnicities!). But Boston has no slim black GFEs, whereas Montreal seems to have at least a couple and the potential for more. Moreover, the range of possibilities is still small enough (maybe 20-25 total) that I could avoid having to make too many hard choices. In a three-day stretch, I could actually hope to sample a reasonable subset (maybe 6-7) of this total.

So my budding plan is to arrange firm two-hour dates with a couple of the HDH ladies (e.g., Lorie and Maya, perhaps India or Julia of Sweet Dreams), then fill in with LDL ladies as time/availability permits. For the LDL ladies, I was planning on doing one-hour sessions, then extending to two or three hours if they proved to be winners.

At the end of the week, I would report back my experiences and evaluate the strategy -- from the perspective of a one-time visitor with a fair amount of cash, a reasonable amount of flexible time, and absolutely no understanding of French whatsoever.

Any comments or suggestions?

Have fun, MG
 

E B Samaritano

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Great discussion guys

Gentlemen,

Excellent civilized points that are well presented by all. I have just landed back at SFO after a 2 week field excursion to YYZ and YUL. I might add, this is in my opinion the overall best of the many visits I have made into Canada for the purpose of hobbying since I first starting doing this in the early nineties. I`ve hobbied pretty extensively in both the Montreal and Toronto markets for years at both market rate (LDL) and HDH outcall escorts. My perspective isn`t necessarily colored by an individual who has ``unlimited`` funds. However as one who relocates to the area at my own time and expense, it is highly biased by the fact that time is money, and given that I am in the area for the purpose of enjoying company with extraordinary young ladies, the cost of a ``dud`` has to be figured into any up front cost savings. I also don`t discount my time wasted due to a ``dial and hope`` strategy, something which unfortunately is the norm in the market rate agencies in Montreal. This is the primary difference between Toronto and Montreal. The market rate/mid-range agencies take advance appointments and many post the schedules of the ladies. This allows those of us who travel with limited time to prebook appointments. This works well for both locals and out of towners as both tend to use these midrange services in equal numbers.

Empiracally, if one searches this board and looks at the expressed level of satisfaction by reviewers of the LDL escorts, it would appear that ``satisfaction`` level is hardly better at that end. In fact, such a study tends to support my assertion that the market rate (LDL) is in decline. There is no truth to the assertion often made that the HDH service levels are not any better than the LDL ladies in MTL. This simply has not been my experience in the MTL HDH market. Take that one step forward and compare the ``liberal`` Montreal with the often cited more conservative Toronto. My statistical data, collected by correllating escort scoring in the rigorous EBS scoring format, would indicate that the service levels of the market rate ladies in Toronto is comparable to those found in Montreal. The notion that more liberal services can be found in the market level escort in Montreal, just isn`t born out by the facts. I am just as likely to receive MSOG, and kissing from a market rate lady in Toronto as I would in Montreal. Recall that regardless to whether the absolute price is cheaper in Montreal, that market rate is established by affordability to the locals of the respective areas.

It may be true that the more liberal attitude towards sex within the Montreal community may contribute to the level of service in the escort population. I suggest that another reason for the service level was coercion established by what was in essence a local monopoly for many years prior to the upset caused by the internet--i.e. LFMJ. The service standard which became legendary was established by coercion within the ranks of the ladies of LFMJ. If you did not /MSOG, you simply did not get much work. This is a well documented fact, reported frequently by ladies who were former LFMJ employees, one of who was the infamous Marilyn/Nelie Arcan. Now that there are more choices of places to work, one clearly sees that the market is flooded with ladies who offer less liberal services, simply because they now have choices about what they wish to offer. Agencies such as Fantasme which had an early web presence, simply dropped any interest in communicating online. Their ranks became filled with a wide range of escorts-from the good looking low mileage to the average to below average that tended to compensate with more liberal services. The defacto upscale agencies represented by Heartbreakers provided ladies that were well presented at a fractional rate above market, yet it could hardly be said that these ladies provided liberal services on average. Girls simply showed up for work when they felt like it rather than be kept to schedules. No accomodation for prebookings was offerred. What it boiled down to as an attraction for those of us out of town is the promise of a low cost encounter with an attractive young girl that dispenses ``liberal`` services. The reality is that many of those lookers who otherwise might be more liberal, either excercised their new found choices to move to a higher price bracket or they simply stopped ``delivering``. What I have noticed is that several of the HDH agencies have ``headliners`` that consistently receive excellent reviews. At least one agency is known to have ladies on staff that offer GFE across the board. It could be argued that not all of these ladies meet the standard for HDH, yet the new price point is being exploited by agency owners to pad their ranks as well as independents who quite frankly fall short of ladies that should command this rate. There will be a market adjustment (in terms of the number of ladies at HDH pricing not the price itself), primarily due to boards like this where information is exchanged, and backchannel communication amongst a lot of serious players in this hobby who don`t post online, yet are quite proactive in engaging this type of talent.

EBS
 

E B Samaritano

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Re: The Market Rate?

Originally posted by dakull
He is back,and you love him or hate him,no middle ground,or is there?HD Escorts, middle of the road,like Asservissante,or bargin basement like Super Choice. Things change all the time and while the HD ladies may be more stable,there are great buys out there,that a little research will yeild. Guys think of the NFL Draft, get the best at the position,or best at what price you can afford, same as Escorts, now EB, and CS.Martin may sign the #1 picks,but Joe Motana was a 8th round pick,you get the idea.
Dakull,

You are absolutely right. Get the best you can afford. That is precisely the reason why those of us who can afford escort experiences choose them over streetwalkers. As is often said, price is certainly no guarantee of quality. Yet there are conveniences associated with HDH engagement in Montreal that are well worth the added costs over and above the dial and hope entertainment offerred by most of the agencies. When you engage HDH entertainment, there are more intangibles that come into play as opposed to the obvious how many times can I go and will she . It costs me more in terms of the cost of lost opportunity to ``hunt`` for those hidden LDL gems. Even better, I can`t get a prebooked appoinment with any of the LDL ladies represented by agencies. Given that my cost of relocation to Montreal for the purpose of engaging entertainment is quite high and borne entirely by me, I`d hardly look to skimp on the most important aspect of the visit. I can`t see coming 2700 miles and holing up in a 400 buck a day hotel room only to dial up looking for bargain priced entertainment. By the time I consider the cost of that relocation, there is no such thing as low priced entertainment in Montreal, even considering the LDL market. So my advice is to make the best of the opportunity. For a guy from the States who is used of 300 USD/hour escort rates, my advice to him is that his money and time is well spent by prebooking HDH entertainment for his primetime appointments. Similarly, given the declining exchange rate, and the dearth of availability and the uncertainty now presented in the quality of the dial and hope LDH offerrings, the more price sensitive traveller is hard pressed to justify the travel expense unless he happens to live in the middle of a dessert or a jungle full of ugly women with poor services. There certainly are areas such as this. Most major metro areas in the US are not like this, however. Can`t say what the situation may be in Albany, but Montreal is within striking distance by car, and certainly presents a viable alternative if your local market is piss poor.

EBS
 
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E B Samaritano

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Re: Gotta agree with GS

Originally posted by frenchie
Well, gotta agree with EBS- you get what you pay for. I am local and have seen prices go from $120-$150 for the likes of a Chanel (SD) to $450-500 for a Chrystelle. Still a deal in US$. (and WAY better than blowing $250 in WANDA's). In fact one former SP I used to "hang with" was in Thursday's the other night at $500!!/hr. Which reminds me when I approched a lady there 8 yrs ago..I said in English "I am a lawyer from T.O.....ok$300........saw her later again downstairs...I spoke French....ca va, combien?- je suis un gar d'Montreal (ok cherie-$150....). If you find a babe at $150 JUMP-cause it won't take her long to figure it all out. happy hunting, frenchie
Frenchie!

Where the hell have you been my friend. I don't suppose that lady you used to hang with is a mutual acquaintance. I lost touch with her a couple of summers ago when I last saw her walking down Rue ST. Catherines causing car accidents. 500 bucks..sounds pretty much like the lady I'm thinking about..LOL..

EBS
 

dakull

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Rigth on ,as usual.

Your response and explanation is right on the money. As for the remark about Albany being PISS POOR, for Escorts, its basically nonexistant, the few ads in the Metroland magizine are either rip offs or LE,trying to bust people, Two ads are real,but with monsters, for me,the four hour drive north is a no brainer.If I travel to Montreal 7 or 8 times a year,and spend Two or Three days,I try and set up appointments ahead of time and with ladies I know,mostly from middle agencies like Asservissante,ect. It works most of the time,and yes the Court Yard by Marriott doesnt charge 400/night,yes I fully understand your veiw and totaly respect your point, your info as well as CS.Martins,intoHDL,has on more than one trip,proved invaluable,thanks.
 

E B Samaritano

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Originally posted by ElfGoneBad

I don't think she ever worked for LFMJ. Get your facts straight.
You don't think or you don't know for sure. If she didn't work for LFMJ per say, but did report working in a coercive environment, how does that affect my citing of the coercive abuses of that agency. Both she and Chloe the former owner of what was then Private Lies worked in the business together prior to Chloe starting Private Lies. Several ladies including at least one who has posted here prior to be run away, indeed did work at agencies in a past life where the women were treated like sex slaves and coerced into providing services. The virtual monopoly represented by these type of services often controlled by mafia and protection rackets were the norm prior to the emergence of online agencies that gave rise to the HDH market for both indys and agencies.

EBS
 

frenchie

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Heh EBS, good to see u r still an ACTIVE dude. I have been "layin low".(well not that low). ....$500...Yep, thats her alright. I hadn't seen her in 1 yr- walkthrough Thursday to get to my car- gee who's at the BAR-some US guy hittin on her.....PUSHING MY LOCAL RATE UPPPPP..... Take care, frenchie
 

Doc Holliday

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Nellie Arcand/Marilyn

EBS is right on re: the former Marilyn of PL, now better known as Nellie Arcand.

The chances she once worked for LFMJ or some similar low end agency is very probable. Many of the better known and lesser known ladies on the scene today once worked for LFMJ. Many!

I could just mention Coralie, Emmanuelle (both of them), Gia/Angelina and Karine among a few. It's common to hear one of them catch you off-guard by stating to you: "oh yeah...i worked one or two shifts for M. Jacques once." Or, "i worked for him for a year as so-and-so....".

I've always referred to LFMJ as "Sp Academy". As stated above, many of the better-known ladies of today and of yesterday first learned the crafts of their trade there.

It is also true, as EBS stated, that the girls were expected to provide the typical LFMJ GFE services (GFE +++). If they didn't, they were shown the door. The mini-van door, that is.

Most of the ladies in the biz that have been in it for a year or so have worked elsewhere before. Very often, you might hear the lady telling you that she just started in this biz...that she's new...and only to find out later that she had actually been in this biz on-and-off for the past 2 years and that this was actually her 3rd agency. Or some similar story....

The best thing that ever happened to the ladies in this hobbying community was the invention of the internet. I never found it very fair in the fact a cute and naive young lady would be expected to perform full GFE++ services in exchange for peanuts.
The internet, high end agencies and independence only improved their living conditions, and eventually helped to shut down some of the creeps whose only intention was to exploit them and pile up the money the girls made for them.

Again, just my 2 cents....

JaJ
 
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frenchie

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Marilyn(aka Nellie). Told me she used to work for Jessica(francophone-not the Jewish one), few other small places-always wondered why she asked so many ``little`` questions (in between ,etc.).....fun to see interview on TV while u r there with your wife.....have fun, frenchie
 

E B Samaritano

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Originally posted by ElfGoneBad
I never repeat myself. But since you are still relatively young I have to. Either one were ever with lfmj.
That would be neither one were ever with LFMJ. So once again let's assume they were'nt, yet in fact did work for some similar type agency. Are you looking for brownie points or a discusssion?


EBS
 

E B Samaritano

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Originally posted by ElfGoneBad
EBS... so now there are no "protection rackets"?

Oh really? You mean the interesting parties just handed over the business to a bunch of 20 year old girls and left town for greener pastures?

OK, so next thing you know the rackets climbed the St-Joseph steps on their knees and donated all their fortunes to cardinal father fucko.

Hmmmmm.
Elf,

I don't know where I said there were no protection rackets. The mafia only managed to control the segment of the business started by agencies like LFMJ and the South Shore operation. A few operations escaped their control. To wit: the mafia never really infliltrated Heartbreakers, the first recognized online ENGLISH agency. LFMJ probably finally met it's demise because they failed to make a protection payment. You don't close shop as suddenly as he did without it being a sudden intervention. And no, the cops didn't just suddenly get religion after allowing this operation to virtually monopolize the business since the mid 1980's. The mafia namely the Irish flavor and Hell's Angels still have their hands in many prostitution operations. I can tell you right now that there are few if any well known operations discussed on this board that are under their control. Your attempts at analyzing the mobility of Montreal ladies reveal your neanderthal grasp of the subject of the impact of modern technology, demographics of Montreal, and the overall gains that women have made in this society towards actually controlling their own lives. I had a response typed to an earlier post on this thread where you responded on the subject of Montreal ladies and their mobility and Eastern Europeans and their influence on the Toronto market. Unfortunately, it was deleted by accident. You wouldn't have appreciated it anyway. You're painfully misinformed. Montreal women have been leaving Quebec many years ago to provide dancers in Ontario for instance. These days they travel almost exclusively to the states. I could have met 80% of the HDH women reviewed on this board in the San Francisco area and never have left home. In addition their customers within Montreal consist of better than 80% out of towners with most being from the US. Many of them have no local customers. The local market does not determine their rates. The internet has allowed them to reach individuals outside their local market. If they are bilingual and have computer skills, they are able to offer their services and make a nice living without riding around all night in freezing cold weather and screwing everybody in town.

EBS
 

Happydan

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Originally posted by E B Samaritano


That would be neither one were ever with LFMJ. So once again let's assume they were'nt, yet in fact did work for some similar type agency. Are you looking for brownie points or a discusssion?


EBS
I don't know why, maybe for brownie points with the HDH's? It is a well known fact that at least Coralie worked for LFMJ. I can gather from your previous statements that you do not like LFMJ but....

Why are you in denial? Does it hurt your ego that some of these girls did at one time as you put "it freeze their asses off screwing local guys all day"?

Your other point about HDH being computer literate and being bilingual I believe is right on. But be carful about only the low end girls screwing all day long. It has been reported by several well known posters that many HDH's also have several appointments per day, especially when they go to the US.

Again why are you in denial of these facts? These girls are not saints/angels! They are just regular sp's that have found a way to get more bucks for the bang. Do I blame them. No

Your other statement concerning the US market as being the one driving the HDH market prices is also REGRETFULLY right on. Your willingness to pay higher prices is having a negative impact for the local hobbiests and also Montreal is now losing it's claim as being the Meca for that same reason.
 
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MatureGentleman

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Incall HDH...

Originally posted by ElfGoneBad


Correct. One of the FKS ladies was in Toronto recently for a weekend. She did over 20 guys incall at a downtown hotel. Where is the HDH in that?

It's very clear. The HDH in this is that she received 20 X $300 for her weekend, rather than 20 x $160. And the 20 guys she saw probably all suffered from the illusion that the experience was just that much more special...

Have fun, MG
 

ManAboutTown

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Train, still...

HDH suggests some exclusivity. Someone who is a little bit more picky about how they do business, and limits their work to make it less like work. Typical HDH meetings are a couple of hours.

20 meetings in 4 days is 5 per day. 2 hours each, you are looking at a girl working 12+ hours a day.

If she was getting HDH dollars for that, and I was #5 of the day, well, I wouldn't exactly be getting the best HDH experience, now would I? That much bumping and grinding means that the plumbing ain't gonna work as good, the girls will be tired, probably sexually uninterested in whole thing. Again, not HDH territory.

On the plus side, I am sure she made a pot load of money... imagine $200 an hour, 10 hours a day, 4 days... 8K less expenses is still maybe 7k for a long weekend of work...

Yeah well... whatever :)

MATt
 
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