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Montreal Rules for HDH entertainment...

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E B Samaritano

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Originally posted by Happydan


I don't know why, maybe for brownie points with the HDH's? It is a well known fact that at least Coralie worked for LFMJ. I can gather from your previous statements that you do not like LFMJ but....

No HappyDan, my comment about brownie points to Elf is that there was an entire post there dealing with an issue and he chose to dispute a minor factual point which had no bearing on my argument, nor really contributed anything to furtherance of the discussion. Perhaps your own predisposition to confrontation is clouding your inability to comprehend this?

Originally posted by Happydan



Why are you in denial? Does it hurt your ego that some of these girls did at one time as you put "it freeze their asses off screwing local guys all day"?

Once again, I believe you are out to lunch here. You must be one fat boy, because you have a habit of staying out to lunch when you post on these boards. Get up from the table some time..please. There are ladies in the HDH market now that never worked anywhere in the business. There are many ladies now in the so called HDH category of pricing that got their start in agencies that now represent the LDL price range. Some of these came from the creme de le creme of the market at the time-- Heartbreakers which in its heyday charged a meager 150 bucks per hour. They rode around in vans freezing their asses off too, despite the fact that they were perceived as the class of the operations at that time. This is the way agencies were run in the dark ages. We are now in an age of enlightenment..at least some of us are. Ladies have discovered that there are alternatives to be treated like cattle and shuttled around in a van. So your point other than looking for an opportunity to harang would be?

Originally posted by Happydan


Your other point about HDH being computer literate and being bilingual I believe is right on. But be carful about only the low end girls screwing all day long. It has been reported by several well known posters that many HDH's also have several appointments per day, especially when they go to the US.

Of course this is true. It is on a case by case basis. But most HDH women while in Montreal seldom need to book more than one appointment per day. Some tour, others don't. Some of these ladies do this part time to supplement their income from a full time occupation or support themselves through univesity or have other primary pursuits. There are mercenaries in the market, many of who tend to work for agencies who will see several clients in a day. When women go on tour they are out to make money PERIOD. This is a point which I have repeatedly discussed directly with them, and one which quite frankly I find obvious. They know in no uncertain terms I will not be seeing any of them when they go on the road. In addition, some of these ladies who are professional escorts instead of using this as a part time advocation, tend to be more mercenary. Nonetheless, I am quite certain when I book with any of these ladies as to just what it is that I'm getting. Your comments seem to be rationalization for the lack of value for ladies whose prices you can't afford anyway.

Originally posted by Happydan



Again why are you in denial of these facts? These girls are not saints/angels! They are just regular sp's that have found a way to get more bucks for the bang. Do I blame them. No

huh? Just what is your problem. Denial of what facts. Please don't use the fact that english is not your first language to demonstrate your lack of reading comprehension. Why do you find it necessary to even go into this? This is a business whether they charge 140 or 500 an hour. Get over it.

Originally posted by Happydan



Your other statement concerning the US market as being the one driving the HDH market prices is also REGRETFULLY right on. Your willingness to pay higher prices is having a negative impact for the local hobbiests and also Montreal is now losing it's claim as being the Meca for that same reason.

You can still pay your market rate which is established for what the local market will bear. The other not so regretable fact to me is that I can pay below my market rate to see HDHs. These women have no interest in pricing themselves to be affordable to the average local.

Montreal is the Mecca for HDH entertainment per the point of my original post. The entire diatribe you just unleashed here does nothing more than butress the point I have made...your market rate escort quality is on the decline. If that wasn't the case you wouldn't waste so much time waging these petty nonsensical exchanges. Just because decent entertainment on the market is no longer readily availible to the locals doesn't make it lose that designation. The designation Mecca is for those of us who travel to the location, not those of you who live there. Mecca comes from a global perspective, not a narrow minded local perspective. And in fact this just in..I was I who first designated it the Mecca based on the fact that I was travelling extensively in the Middle East at a time when I first discovered Montreal.

EBS
 

CaptRenault

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Originally posted by E B Samaritano



Montreal is the Mecca for HDH entertainment per the point of my original post. The entire diatribe you just unleashed here does nothing more than butress the point I have made...your market rate escort quality is on the decline. If that wasn't the case you wouldn't waste so much time waging these petty nonsensical exchanges. Just because decent entertainment on the market is no longer readily availible to the locals doesn't make it lose that designation. The designation Mecca is for those of us who travel to the location, not those of you who live there. Mecca comes from a global perspective, not a narrow minded local perspective. And in fact this just in..I was I who first designated it the Mecca based on the fact that I was travelling extensively in the Middle East at a time when I first discovered Montreal.

EBS

"Mecca: Holiest city of Islam."

"mecca: A place that is the center of an activity or the goal to which adherents of a faith or practice aspire."

Above quoted from the American Heritage Illustrated Encyclopedic Dictionary, 1987.

EBS, you may have invented the term "high dollar honey (HDH)" but your claim that you first designated Montreal to be a mecca for prostitution cannot be substantiated. Also, when used this way, the word is not capitalized. Montreal was already a mecca for prostitution in the 1930's and '40's, long before your hobbying days began.

Otherwise, based on my experience over the last 3 years, I tend to agree with the basic outline of your analysis about the changing market conditions of the Montreal escort scene.

But I just wanted to point out that Montreal has long been a mecca for (American) men seeking paid female companionship and that it must have been described as such long before any of us came along.
 

Happydan

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Originally posted by E B Samaritano


No HappyDan, my comment about brownie points to Elf is that there was an entire post there dealing with an issue and he chose to dispute a minor factual point which had no bearing on my argument, nor really contributed anything to furtherance of the discussion. Perhaps your own predisposition to confrontation is clouding your inability to comprehend this?



Once again, I believe you are out to lunch here. You must be one fat boy, because you have a habit of staying out to lunch when you post on these boards. Get up from the table some time..please. There are ladies in the HDH market now that never worked anywhere in the business. There are many ladies now in the so called HDH category of pricing that got their start in agencies that now represent the LDL price range. Some of these came from the creme de le creme of the market at the time-- Heartbreakers which in its heyday charged a meager 150 bucks per hour. They rode around in vans freezing their asses off too, despite the fact that they were perceived as the class of the operations at that time. This is the way agencies were run in the dark ages. We are now in an age of enlightenment..at least some of us are. Ladies have discovered that there are alternatives to be treated like cattle and shuttled around in a van. So your point other than looking for an opportunity to harang would be?



Of course this is true. It is on a case by case basis. But most HDH women while in Montreal seldom need to book more than one appointment per day. Some tour, others don't. Some of these ladies do this part time to supplement their income from a full time occupation or support themselves through univesity or have other primary pursuits. There are mercenaries in the market, many of who tend to work for agencies who will see several clients in a day. When women go on tour they are out to make money PERIOD. This is a point which I have repeatedly discussed directly with them, and one which quite frankly I find obvious. They know in no uncertain terms I will not be seeing any of them when they go on the road. In addition, some of these ladies who are professional escorts instead of using this as a part time advocation, tend to be more mercenary. Nonetheless, I am quite certain when I book with any of these ladies as to just what it is that I'm getting. Your comments seem to be rationalization for the lack of value for ladies whose prices you can't afford anyway.



huh? Just what is your problem. Denial of what facts. Please don't use the fact that english is not your first language to demonstrate your lack of reading comprehension. Why do you find it necessary to even go into this? This is a business whether they charge 140 or 500 an hour. Get over it.



You can still pay your market rate which is established for what the local market will bear. The other not so regretable fact to me is that I can pay below my market rate to see HDHs. These women have no interest in pricing themselves to be affordable to the average local.

Montreal is the Mecca for HDH entertainment per the point of my original post. The entire diatribe you just unleashed here does nothing more than butress the point I have made...your market rate escort quality is on the decline. If that wasn't the case you wouldn't waste so much time waging these petty nonsensical exchanges. Just because decent entertainment on the market is no longer readily availible to the locals doesn't make it lose that designation. The designation Mecca is for those of us who travel to the location, not those of you who live there. Mecca comes from a global perspective, not a narrow minded local perspective. And in fact this just in..I was I who first designated it the Mecca based on the fact that I was travelling extensively in the Middle East at a time when I first discovered Montreal.

EBS

Where did I ever insult you in my post?
Why do you have to continuously insult others that don't agree with you?
How do you know whether I can or can't afford these ladies?
Do you actually think that only out of towners can afford it?

What I don't like is having to pay what you are willing to pay. It's not my fault that you out priced yourselves in the US and I really don’t care! But you are doing it here and NOW I CARE!

My point period. Is this clear enough now.

All your remarks are just proving my point of view. Period.

Train, how can you generalize whether we have or not have seen any of these ladies. Hell how do I know that you have? You can't base your comments on that point alone. My point is simple, though I like the HDH's I don't like paying what you are willing to pay.

All of you wake up! EBS agrees himself without actually knowing it.
IT’S A BUSINESS.
If you are always willing to pay what they ask you for the price's will go up.

THATS BUSINESS.

P.S. EBS I purposely typed this V E R Y S L O W L Y knowing that you can’t read too well. (EBS this is an insult hope you understood it)

To EBS again. I'LL quote you and miss read your points like you always seem to do to others.

Originally posted by E B Samaritano

based on the fact that I was travelling extensively in the Middle East at a time when I first discovered Montreal.
EBS

Wrong again, Jacques Cartier discovered Montreal (well technically the Indians did)
 

RedSox

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my 2 cents

Not commenting on any post in particular, just saying where I'm coming from:

The only place I have and will see an SP in the forseeable future is Montreal. In the US, the risk is simply not worth it especially since I have more than a few female friends here.
Back to Montreal, I stick to HDH because I have a general level of service I want and an HDH is more likely to provide that as opposed to an LDL. Why am I going to shell out $$$ for restricted services and someone who I can't speak English with?
As for price, because I go to Montreal so infrequently, $160 or $225/hr really makes no difference. 5 years from now I'm not going to remember how much I paid but how good of a time I had, afterall that's what Montreal is all about to me. A nice vacation spot where I can unwind, relax, and come home a happy man. The SP service is just part of my agenda there, along with walking around the beautiful city, taking in the food, and meeting hot ass girls in the regular clubs.
I don't see myself or others like me driving up prices. Prices will naturally go up over time. That's just economics.
 

Happydan

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REDSOX

Well I'm from Montreal and saw SP'S 2 to 3 times a month(an increase of 90% for me ie 3hrs ldl $330 vs hdh $600). Don't forget that my LDLs of the past (2 years ago) ARE your present day HDHs.

I now use less frequently because of economics, a 90 % increase in price IS a major economic factor! I understand your point of view. If I also came to Montreal infrequently the diff between 165 and 225 or 330 vs 600$ for 3 hours is peanuts.

P.S. dont forget the minimum is 2hrs for 450 wheras 2 hours ldl was 230-250, again near the 90% mark.
 

MatureGentleman

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Originally posted by ducky
My Pov: those who pay too much for the company of women recklessly disturb the organic balance of the price structure for all. Plus getting ripped off is never fun, no matter how much cash you have. Don't get ripped off by this HDH nonsense.


This completely misses the point. While EBS is so patronizing and abusive in his posts that one longs to disagree with him, his arguments appear quite valid. While my personal knowledge of the Montreal market is based solely on the HDH ladies traveling to the US, the other posts in this thread (and on other boards and the summaries in the spreadsheet) corroborate EBS' central thesis -- that the existence of the internet has allowed talented LDL ladies to market their services at a much higher rate and that the quality of the LDL market is declining.

As for paying "too much," EBS accurately describes the purchasing decision from the standpoint of a visitor with little time, facing a HDH rate structure that -- while high vis-a-vis Montreal standards -- is low relative to what he would be paying on his home turf. So it's not surprising that the visitor would pay the HDH rate to ensure himself a good-to-great experience. YOU may think the HDH rate is "too much," but the visitor is happy to pay the price.

As for the question of whether one has been "ripped off," that once again can only be answered by the purchaser. If a visitor is willing to pay the higher HDH price so as to ensure the high likelihood of a positive experience, then by definition he has not been ripped off. Willing buyer, willing seller... That's the way the capitalist system works.

It may be true that YOU would not pay the HDH premium. Thus, you might feel "ripped off" if you were to have exactly the same experience. But, in fact, you cannot be ripped off in this fashion, because you would not choose to pay the price. You would see another lady at a different point on the price/quality scale... or perhaps on the price/security scale, since you may be correct that what the visitor is really buying is security and convenience, not a better experience per se...

It may still be the case that you can replicate the HDH experience at a much lower price just by doing your homework, maintaining good contacts with key agencies, and reacting opportunistically. If you have this ability and choose to purchase in this manner, then you should. Again, that's what markets are about... willing buyer, willing seller.

I am disappointed that this entire thread has spent so much time arguing about the completely pointless issue of whether HDH rates SHOULD be as high as they are, and whether visitors SHOULD pay these prices. Market participants will be driven by their individual preferences and circumstances.

All of the whining and moaning in the world will not change this fundamental reality... You would do better to whine about the weather, since all of the collective hot air would at least induce a slight increase in the local temperature.

Just my two cents from an admitted newcomer on this board...

Have fun, MG (Boston)
 

RedSox

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Originally posted by ducky
My Pov: those who pay too much for the company of women recklessly disturb the organic balance of the price structure for all. Plus getting ripped off is never fun, no matter how much cash you have. Don't get ripped off by this HDH nonsense.

therein lies the problem, you say "pay too much" but how much is too much? No single person can answer that. To a billionaire nothin is too much. To a bum everything is too much. And then there are all of us in between the no-haves and the supermega rich. Each of us have a different mentality and background, so naturally we each have our own perspective. Some prioritize looks, some service, some attitude.

PS. If we have the ability to have sex for free, aren't we all "paying too much"! LOL
 

RedSox

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Originally posted by ElfGoneBad


Footnote: Any self made millionaire has a pretty good understanding of the value of money.

Good point. To clarify, I meant a billionaire can simply afford to pay more for things than we do, not that they necessarily would.
 

dickgozinya

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Plenty of valid points on both sides. All I can say is that I was in Montreal a few weeks ago and I met with a HDH. It was well worth every penny. The girl was excellent in every way and a total bargain compared to american sp's. Also, there is no way she sees 10 or 20 guys per day. She has two other jobs/school. I did not see any of Martin's crew or other incall gals so I can't compare the two. All in all, should I go back to Montreal I would only deal with HDH's because I do think in most cases you get what you pay for.
 

E B Samaritano

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Originally posted by CaptRenault


"Mecca: Holiest city of Islam."

"mecca: A place that is the center of an activity or the goal to which adherents of a faith or practice aspire."

Above quoted from the American Heritage Illustrated Encyclopedic Dictionary, 1987.

EBS, you may have invented the term "high dollar honey (HDH)" but your claim that you first designated Montreal to be a mecca for prostitution cannot be substantiated. Also, when used this way, the word is not capitalized. Montreal was already a mecca for prostitution in the 1930's and '40's, long before your hobbying days began.

Otherwise, based on my experience over the last 3 years, I tend to agree with the basic outline of your analysis about the changing market conditions of the Montreal escort scene.

But I just wanted to point out that Montreal has long been a mecca for (American) men seeking paid female companionship and that it must have been described as such long before any of us came along.

Captain Renault,

Let me deal with what I have in the past suspected and now perceive is a burr in your butt. I did not invent the term HDH..high dollar hottie. That in fact comes from another more focused American forum which actually has participants who have perspective on the fact, i.e. individuals who actually don't need a financial justification just a honest discussion about whom they should see. I merely transplanted the term here literally..probably much the same as the term GFE was used to describe an escort experience..yet another perhaps ill chosen term. Howeever, I can assure you the the assignment of the designation of Montreal as the Mecca was indeed an original on my part. The significance to me as a user of escort services on a global basis..Mecca is like going home...it is like going to play golf at Saint Andrews or going to the Vatican if you are Catholic..Capiche? I didn' t think so.

As for needing or benefitting from your boorish presentations of definitions from the online medium, congratulations...you just discovered fire..welcome to the civilized world...LMFAO

EBS
 
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E B Samaritano

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Originally posted by dickgozinya
Plenty of valid points on both sides. All I can say is that I was in Montreal a few weeks ago and I met with a HDH. It was well worth every penny. The girl was excellent in every way and a total bargain compared to american sp's. Also, there is no way she sees 10 or 20 guys per day. She has two other jobs/school. I did not see any of Martin's crew or other incall gals so I can't compare the two. All in all, should I go back to Montreal I would only deal with HDH's because I do think in most cases you get what you pay for.

You understand EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

EBS
 

ManAboutTown

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I managed to stay out of this one so far... but hey, why not?

EBS: Montreal has some fine HDH in the marketplace. We also have some fine LDLs, etc. Paying more is no indication of quality, rather an indication of your willingness to pay. There is no way to determine if the HDH girl you see today isn't an LDL the rest of the week. There is no way to tell if she won't go and see 4 other guys when she is done with you. You may feel re-assured by paying the big money, but in reality, you have no more control of the situation than what happens in a very small window of time in the girl's life.

You get what you pay for often because you convince yourself that you are getting something better. You set the stage, better room, good food perhaps, maybe a nice bottle of champagne, whatever it is. You create, without even intending, the perfect situation for any girl to come into and shine. You know what you are spending, and you are convinced that things are create. This is your culture (American) playing out right in front of you - the more you spend, the better it must be.

Money can't buy happiness - but HDH are proof that you can rent happiness if you are willing to pay enough.

MATt
 

dickgozinya

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Originally posted by ElfGoneBad
Call me slow, stupid, and naive but I begin to understand the difference between us.

You are Americans we are Canadians (some of us Quebecois) and as Canadians, we know that the philosophy of "most cases you get what you pay for" has major flaws.

One of these flaws becomes visible when you exit your home country. Individually and as a nation you have replaced any attempt to understand a culture, any culture, with the $ sign.

Sad but true.

No, not planning to change the world, but a few suggestions on how to bridge this gap are welcomed.

Elf, Let's not get political here. I simply stated that my choice would be to see a HDH. I don't see anything wrong with your choice of hunting for less expensive girls. I am just saying I don't believe that you could get the quality of provider I saw for $140cdn/hr. Plus, I don't want to see a sp who just finished off 4 guys earlier that day. Also, don't generalize Americans into one category. I visited Montreal for the first time last month and I had a great time. I met plenty of nice french canadiens. I could have gone there with the widely held American perception that anything French is a worthless piece of shit, but I didn't.
 

dickgozinya

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I understand the need of the locals in Montreal to keep the market under control. Hence, all the outcry over Martin possibly raising his rates $20cdn/hr. I found it amusing that an increase of that limited size would even cause such emotion. Maybe that's why the HDH that I spent time with will not see guys from Montreal. As for Man about town , I totally disagree with you.
 

ManAboutTown

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Dick, the HDH won't see local guys often because they don't want anyone to know what they do for money. Simple. That and, honestly, most local guys won't spend HDH money very often.

Also, your American type dollars, up until recently, allowed you to look like a bigshot without having to be one... Your getting Montreal HDH for less than you would pay for a barely qualified streetwalker in some places. $300 an hour was less than $200 US... you can't barely get the girl to your door in Vegas for that money... and the girls there want $400-$600US to do the job.

It's easy, no?

Anyway, y'all are allowed to disagree, I respect you for it. ;-)

MATt
 

ManAboutTown

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Beaver, actually, my expertise is in the business of sex.

Quality is a relative thing. If you spend $500 in New York, and get a skanky needle marked street walker, then come to Montreal and spend the same $500us (last summer would get you about $750 cdn) you would have a really nice girl, and true hdh experience (whatever that is!)

Quality is judged based on past experiences of the people receiving it. For people from certain countries, a 1972 pinto would be a really nice quality car. For others, it is a piece of junk. Our experiences and perceptions change the way we look at things.

Providing that the girl / agency / service provides a REASONABLE service, not specifically bad, the girl is decent enough looking, clean, etc, and MOST IMPORTANTLY "better that what they are getting at home", then the tourists / businessmen will always be happy to pay Montreal prices for service.

As for bankrupcy, well, I would say that all the girls that have gone independant and higher dollars in the last little while should be the ones worrying. It looks like the loonie might go up to 80 cents US soon enough, which would mean that everything in Montreal (including entertainment) will be up about 40% for the tourists. Over time, I think you will see less travel, and less total dollars (canadian) being spent. More girls chasing less totally dollars can only mean one thing. THAT is business 101.

MATt
 

dickgozinya

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Maybe I am off on my definition of an HDH. I keep reading price quotes that were way above what i paid. The lady I saw was $300cdn for one hour. I assume that qualifies her as an HDH. And again I'll reiterate that I would choose to pay that price for her rather than risk $160cdn on one of Martin's girls. Just my opinion.
 

MatureGentleman

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Originally posted by ElfGoneBad
Jessica (the so called model) use to be $400/h.


In Montreal, perhaps... But in New York, when she worked for Fleur de Elite, she charged $1000-1500/hour U.S. (I'm not sure of her exact rate, since I've never used Fleur de Elite and never will at those prices).

That puts a whole new perspective on the HDH boundary and the value of such a lady's hour, does it not?

Have fun, MG (Boston)
 

gohabsgo

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Fleur de Elite


Wow !!! So this is an agency with NYC fashion models who escort on the side ? I can see why at $1000/hr. and up, I remember Caitlyn saying that modelling doesn't pay much, unless you are one of those famous supermodels. You would think that they wouldn't want their faces shown or they don't care that their modelling pictures are on an escort website?

Under what name does Jessica go by at this agency ? Robin looks like Ashley Judd, Chloe,Giselle and Sharon are hot !
 
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