Predatory practices/fleecing vulnerable people

[HonestAbe]

Absolutely!

I agree that both men and women have a predatory side.

When it comes down to it, we are all big boys and girls, and we have to look after ourselves. Cos sure as hell nobody else is going to do it!

As for revenge, I used to be a revengeful kinda gal.. Now, I am of the opinion that revenge is like trying to keep hold of a hot coal while you're waiting for the opportunity to throw it at someone.
Sadie

A lot of wisdom there Sadie! Thanks. I hope you have some friends and family who look out for you. I have several good friends who I've known for nearly 20 years and we all try to look out for each other. On a few occasions I've been ready to do some very foolish things and luckily I would tell one of them. They would proceed to slowly convince me that what I was planning on doing was foolish because I wasn't thinking rationally. I usually would listen to them and once it sunk in that these were my best friends telling me this I would come around and realize what I had almost done. If I have a friend/family member who I see as being particularly vulnerable due to some circumstance in their life I take extra care to guard them from anyone who might try to take advantage of them.

Good friends and family are important to have when you are unable to see things clearly. At times of crisis in peoples lives they make bad decisions and regret some of those for a long time. I agree with Magda that it is not an Sp's "job" to be a "shrink." I also agree with Train that it is nice if an Sp can talk about problems people are having in their lives and give them an honest opinion even if not a "trained" one.

Jessy of Celines Fantasies is one Sp who has a knack for this as she is very intelligent and thoughtful and didn't mind talking to me about problems I was experiencing at the time I met her. She actually seemed to enjoy it and was happy that she was able to shed some light on "how women think" and "how my mind effects my level of sexual arousal." I didn't expect her to do this but it was a major added bonus and I will repeat with her because of what Robin (of Spreadsheet fame)describes as a "Maternal attitude" towards her clients which keeps them coming back. I didn't see her so much as a maternal figure as I did a beautiful intelligent woman who was perfectly suited to talk about those two specific issues with me. I don't need another maternal figure, I have one of those and she does me little good when it comes to discussing sex, LOL!

I think a lot of guys like being able to talk to a beautiful woman about their problems if not for anything more than a soothing touch and an ear to bend. In Japan, Geishas' have been doing this for Centuries and it is ingrained into their culture as a perfectly acceptable and honorable practice. Of course when the "session" is over the client goes home alone or to his wife but he has had a "release" of sorts which helps to ease a troubled mind.

Back to the subject though. I also agree with Canadian Joe that our self esteem plays a major role in our level of vulnerability. Its an excellent point. Someone who thinks they are not worthy of something will not "allow" themselves to achieve it in many cases. I've heard some famous "self help" people say that you have to believe that you deserve to be happy or you will never be. Therefore I think its important to keep an eye out for people who go after individuals with low self esteem problems. It could be that they see them as easy prey. An obvious tipoff would be a drop dead gorgeous type suddenly expressing interest in a really ugly but very rich Lawyer.

 

[mack]

An obvious tipoff would be a drop dead gorgeous type suddenly expressing interest in a really ugly but very rich Lawyer.

What if that lawyer was charismatic and brilliant? People are attracted to such things and it has little to do with looks. I mention this to say that even an obvious tipoff might not be so obvious.

 

[joeblow]

I am not a babysitter, I am a sex worker. I am not your mother. I am a sex worker. If you cannot handle your own emotions, you need to grow up. It is not, I REPEAT NOT my responsiblity to look after your mental state. Seek counselling, psychotherapy, whatever....

Frankly Magda, I am disappointed that you feel compelled to resort to this ad hominem attack. The hat simply does not fit my head, and if you had taken the trouble to look, you'd have found that I've posted on the subject of fantasy versus reality in several threads over the past couple of years. Nevertheless, I can commiserate with the lovesick johns who have trouble distinguishing between a paid-for fantasy and true sentiment. And I believe they deserve better than the scorn you and several others here have been quick to heap on them.

Whether they have been fleeced by an unscrupulous provider or not, these lovesick johns do not all become stalkers or psychopaths. After realization sets it, I’m sure most of them just go home and lick their wounds. I have trouble imagining them joining a thread like this one, or its predecessor, to confess, "I fell in love or I was taken by this or that SP because I was unable to distinguish fantasy from reality". So the fact that they don't publicly flagellate themselves here doesn't prove much. Likewise, statements by other clients to the effect they had a normal relationship with a suspected fleecer cannot be taken as proof that the SP is always kosher. In the news media, we regularly see interviews of neighbours of convicted felons who assert, "Oh, he was such a nice man". Bottom line, I think we can safely assume that within the client base, there is a small minority of lovesick johns, some of which may become stalkers; and within the provider community, there is a small minority of fleecers. Problems arise when members of theses minorities meet.

The only time I will say something about a client's mental state is if it causes me discomfort. At that point I am risking further discomfort from a possible stalker/assault/kidnapping/psychokiller...etc! Thus, we have a situation such as the one we are currently discussing in this thread.

Don't play that rights/responsibity card with me. I know what my responibility is, and it certainly isn't playing shrink to some lovesick, obsessed client. This job is dangerous enough without having to confront emotionally unstable clients about their mental state.

In my life, I’ve met mechanics who’ve told me to stop trying to repair an ageing car and get a new one instead, repairmen who’ve told me the same about appliances, a lawyer who counselled me how NOT to run up a bill of legal fees. In all walks of life, the are decent providers who can renounce immediate gain just to help an unwitting client, and others who view these clients only as opportunities to maximize revenue. Faced with a lovesick john, SPs need not play shrink or mother, plain decency is enough.

I see you are far too immersed in your own grievances with regards to your security to be concerned about a client’s mental state. And I can’t blame you: sex workers are regularly threatened, brutalized or worse; johns aren’t. That is why, among other reasons, I hope sexwork will someday emerge from the underground it is mired in, and that sexworkers will benefit from the full protection of LE and the social safety net, just as other workers do. Then, I think we can expect all SPs to not milk their most vulnerable clients, in the same way a good bartender will tell a patron he has had enough – even when public safety is not at stake. That day has not yet arrived, of course, and many SPs live hand to mouth. But some SPs do manage to keep their heads (or more) above water, and of those I would expect some level of concern for the lovesick john’s mental state. For example, a few posts above, Ronnie recounted how she suggested to a client that he seek counselling, at the cost of losing him as a client. So even in the present state of the law, there are decent SPs who do have concern for their clients’ well being -- without having to play shrink or mother.

 

[HonestAbe]

Thats true as well.

What if that lawyer was charismatic and brilliant? People are attracted to such things and it has little to do with looks. I mention this to say that even an obvious tipoff might not be so obvious.

Yet another valid perspective. Thanks Mack. I'm referring to the ones who aren't interested in finding a "Heart of gold", rather, those who just want Gold. I know a few people who are in long term relationships where one partner is not nearly as good looking as the other, in relative terms. Some are in a "soulmate" kind of love where they just click on everything together which is nice to see. Others are in a marriage of convenience which is all about luxury cars, vacations to 5 star resorts, plastic surgery, Houses on a cliff overlooking the Ocean, shopping trips every day, etc...

Heres an example I know of personally. A distant family member of mine got married to a woman who he met at her job selling classified adds for a local newspaper. At first she thought he was a clerk at the business who was running errands for the boss, this family member is not a good looking fellow sorry to say, but a really sweet man. He asked her out once and gave her his number. She didn't call. Months later he went out to place another add in the paper and to his shock she was all over him and suggested they go out to dinner some time. They were married less than 6 months later.

A while later, members of our family found out through friends who worked at the paper who knew her that she had originally said she thought he was ugly, he has some bad teeth which we don't understand why he has never fixed, and had nothing she was interested in. At some point after she had "lost his number" apparently one of them mentioned to her that he was in fact the owner of this multi-million dollar business. Her tune changed considerably overnight. Since they got married she has never worked another day and is constantly showered with gifts of all kinds. She lives a luxurious lifestyle to say the least.

He refused to listen to anyone who tried to caution him against rushing in to marriage with this woman. Now she has become a pain in the ass to him but he is petrified to say anything which might offend her even though she has alienated him from his family by refusing to have any of us in "her" house or even to attend Holiday functions with his grown children, nieces and nephews, brothers and sisters etc...He is trapped and scared to death of losing her and everything he owns if he stands up for himself, he truly is a slave to love.

 

[eastender]

Not sure..............

Honest Abe , as your last post indicates , one is more likely to find these types at the country club than working as a sp.

Not sure about that - do know that an SP is alot easier to get rid of.Actually they gladly leave on their own.

 

[sybaritic]

A few last thoughts and then I'm done

First, from my perspective, it is unfortunate that the thread was split because it removes some of the comments (like mine) from proper context and has left a little confusion. It is important to remember that earlier comments in this thread were elicited in response to an individual who was convicted as a stalker, or something along those lines, and the following comments by some that seemingly laid the blame with the SP involved. Subsequently others joined the original thread in defense of the individual SP involved (not me, I don't know her), and in general of the SP community.

Second, Honest Abe, I am sorry if you felt that my comments were a personal attack, as they were not intended so. I cannot judge you or other contributors because I don't know you; at least not from one or a few hasty comments. We can only judge the words as they are committed to the ether. Prejudices: we all have them (me included!) and sometimes they are reflected in our words even though we cannot see them ourselves. Whatever your meaning--and I do not doubt the sincerity of your subsequent clarifications--a few of your words were taken by several (e.g. "it takes two to tango" lawless) to support the likelihood of responsibility on the part of the SP and SPs in general.

Finally, joeblow, thank you for your second, more reasoned and mostly reasonable, statement. Your first statement in this thread unfortunately fell into the "hasty comment" category and was frankly inane, and thus elicited sharp retorts from myself and Magda (whose comment, by the way, I also found a reasoned and reasonable statement, but coming from a very different perspective to yours--not an ad hominem attack). Regarding your second statement my only comment is, again, remember the context of the earlier conversation. Speaking for myself, there was no attempt to "heap scorn" on poor lovesick souls. After all, anyone with a heart and a life has found themselves somewhere in that territory! Instead, I and others were trying to defend the victims of those who lose control of their feelings and commit unsocial or criminal acts, and place the responsibility for those acts where it belongs, on the perpetrators.

 

[HonestAbe]

Afterwards certainly.

Honest Abe , as your last post indicates , one is more likely to find these types at the country club than working as a sp.

Before she found my relative she was lower income, not a country club type. Afterwards she certainly became a "country club lady." I don't believe greed knows class, race, age, or gender lines.

Sybaritic,

Thank you for the follow up, its much appreciated. You are right as well about many people having prejudices, sometimes that they don't even realize they have.

 

[Magda]

If you would like to PM Magda she can share something with you that might clear up this matter for you. she'll know what I'm talking about.

Uhm, should I? I feel foolish as I have no clue what you mean, HonestAbe.

Could you explain by PM please?

Thanks

 

[Magda]

Uhm?

HonestAbe? PM me with the info on this claim you have made.

 

[Magda]

Ooooooh right!

 

[MySP_love]

Funny how little is spoken of how this can happen the other way around...

Yes, there are many players in this business, somtimes it is the girls other times it is the guys.

Some guys spending alot of time convincing girls to leave an agency let's say. Promising to come see them a couple of times a month without the agency (so that they can pay less), and for a while it works and then, one day, just dropping them. Many guys have tried this, and most girls know better. Once in a while though, that one new girl, who doesn't understand this business yet, falls for it. The guy takes her shopping, buys her things,makes her feel "special" and then nothing.

Same with the guys. The girl may start to encourage the feelings of a client. Purposefully, not just making him feel like he is special (which is what we want to do), but making him feel like she can and will return his feelings of long (crossing the line - unless true).

I have taken the good advice of a friend here, and let it be known that it would cost a hell of alot more for me to love you, then for you to date me (lol) - and in the end, I think that that is true no matter if you are an SP, or a "regular" lady.

One thing is for sure, whether you are dating, seeing an SP, seeing a client, whatever - we each are responsible for our own actions. No SP (Gold-digger or regular woman on the street) MAKES you give her a car, pay her bills or whatever else...that is YOUR decision and no one elses.

Melanie

 

[Sadie]

Honest Abe: Unfortunately no family here. My family has never really agreeed with my 'choice of lifestyle' so I tend to just look after myself. Which I think I do a pretty fine job of. My friends are pretty precious though.

As for lovesick johns. Well, I don't mind lending an ear here and there. Sometimes, though, I feel like I am too nice and giving with the ear. Sometimes I feel like if I cut down the amount of times I only talked to some clients without booking a date with them, they might feel the need to actually SEE me more in person. Sometimes I feel like I should say 'its very nice you are calling me to see how I am, but I need MONEY!' I know this sounds harsh. But sometimes it is true.

As for the bartender, he is still getting paid by the hour, its not as if he is taking the drink money directly.

Sadie

 

[HonestAbe]

Kind to a fault

Honest Abe: Unfortunately no family here. My family has never really agreeed with my 'choice of lifestyle' so I tend to just look after myself. Which I think I do a pretty fine job of. My friends are pretty precious though.

As for lovesick johns. Well, I don't mind lending an ear here and there. Sometimes, though, I feel like I am too nice and giving with the ear. Sometimes I feel like if I cut down the amount of times I only talked to some clients without booking a date with them, they might feel the need to actually SEE me more in person. Sometimes I feel like I should say 'its very nice you are calling me to see how I am, but I need MONEY!' I know this sounds harsh. But sometimes it is true.

As for the bartender, he is still getting paid by the hour, its not as if he is taking the drink money directly.

Sadie

Sorry to hear that Sadie,

Glad you have good friends though. You are probably right about cutting down on conversational calls with clients, you aren't running a psychiatric hotline after all. It does go to show how kind you are though since you are willing to "lend an ear here and there." Perhaps if phone calls become too numerous with certain clients you could simply tell them you are very busy in a way which would let them know that you don't mind having the occasional conversation but you are busy making a living so if he wants to talk more he will have to book an appointment.

I'm reminded of an old song, I think its titled (Sometimes you have to be) "Cruel to be kind". Not in a vicious way of course but enough to get your point across so there is no misunderstanding between the two of you as to the nature of your "relationship." Nothing will serve as a better wake up call for a guy who starts to treat you like a wife or girlfriend than a good dose of reality. I think you'll do it in a tactful way since you seem to lean towards kindheartedness in the first place. Good Luck.