Quebecois cocaine cowgirls

[BookerL]

Although BookerL provides speculation to the contrary, we have no information on whether these mules have retained or been assigned counsel, one way or the other. We do not even know if they have are using any attorneys (I assume each would have a different attorney due to potential conflicts).

Hello EB

I do not speculate that there is attorney or not .
I have explained that your theories where flawed,plain and simple and link evidence to support it .

And more évidence to it now with the link provided by jalimon.

Cheers


Booker

 

[EagerBeaver]

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/societe/2016/10/25/003-melina-isabelle-cocaine-australie.shtmlOne interesting point, the 2 girls were friends but absolutely no one of their friends, employers, family, etc.. knew about this existance of that Andre Tamine...Cheers,

No different than asking an escort's family members if they know you.... or any of us........Tamine was just a guy they met on a Sugar Daddy website, an operative of the cartel. Girls would not talk to their families about SDs, any more than they would any of us they meet in pay for play situations.

BTW Thanks for the link Jalimon. The two new attorneys suggest that someone retainered them, unless there were conflicts of interest.

 

[Passionné]

I enjoy learning about new subjects. Always have as I have said many times. All of the legal analysis I read said there is choice about who an attorney defends if it meets specific criterias. I documented some of where that information came from. No where did I say it was about liking the client or not, or that it would be allowed for frivolous reasons.

Certainly it would be self-undermining if any attorney made a habit of dumping clients even if it was for very legit reasons. But everything I saw said there are means to leave a client if there are legit reasons to do so if it meets prescribed criterias and the proper procedures are followed.

No lawyer need explain their reasons for defending any type of criminal. You are simply doing your duty. Being defensive about it raises questions about your own comfort level or else why bother when everything was done right as the positions demands and is legally mandated.

Cheers

 

[jalimon]

No different than asking an escort's family members if they know you.... or any of us........Tamine was just a guy they met on a Sugar Daddy website, an operative of the cartel. Girls would not talk to their families about SDs, any more than they would any of us they meet in pay for play situations.

BTW Thanks for the link Jalimon. The two new attorneys suggest that someone retainered them, unless there were conflicts of interest.

Hum, what does "retainered" mean? (first time I see that word).

Cheers,

 

[EagerBeaver]

Hum, what does "retainered" mean? (first time I see that word).

Cheers,

Means they are paid for and contracted as opposed to court appointed public defenders who work at taxpayers expense. The ethical obligations are the same in both cases. But one is getting paid by the client or the client's agents, and the other isn't.

The article implied that the new attorneys were retainered, but didn't specifically state. It doesn't sound like a PD situation because PDs who have conflicts never get assigned in the first place. The first attorneys may have been PDs and the second set retainered private attorneys replacing them- this is just educated speculation again, due to lack of detail.

 

[EagerBeaver]

No lawyer need explain their reasons for defending any type of criminal. You are simply doing your duty. Being defensive about it raises questions about your own comfort level or else why bother when everything was done right as the positions demands and is legally mandated.

NOT Cheers

Typical shit stirring we have seen from another handle called "Merlot", showing that one can change handles but not colors very easily.

 

[BookerL]

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/societe/2016/10/25/003-melina-isabelle-cocaine-australie.shtml

This article state that they each have their own lawyer, and a different one from who represented them after their arrest.

In case like this I guess it's a necessity to have 2 laywers, one from your country which hire/lead a local lawyer to lead the case.

Salutation a tous


Jalimon excellent article, il ya une explication a ta question ,si ont compare avec ce qui passe ici ,mais rien n'est sur ,même au Canada entre Province il y a des variables .

Voici ce que l'article site

Le trio demeurera en détention jusqu'à sa comparution, reportée au 7 décembre. Isabelle et Mélina ont deux nouveaux avocats, différents de ceux qui les ont représentées peu de temps après leur arrestation

.



Ils est fréquent au Canada qu'une personne arrêter utilise l'avocat d'office .Cela est garantie par la charte des droit et liberté http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/fra/const/page-15.html

10. Chacun a le droit, en cas d’arrestation ou de détention :

a) d’être informé dans les plus brefs délais des motifs de son arrestation ou de sa détention;

b) d’avoir recours sans délai à l’assistance d’un avocat et d’être informé de ce droit;

ont ils des équivalences?


Cela fait un dossier difficile a analyser .


On rapporte que ce n'est pas les même avocats qu'au moment de la comparution de plus

Les trois accusés ont chacun un avocat différent.

On ne parle par contre pas que Tamine a un nouveau avocat? du moins pas dans cette article http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/societe/2016/10/25/003-melina-isabelle-cocaine-australie.shtml



http://www.tribunaux.qc.ca/c-superieure/regle-pratique/criminelle/02-dispositions_generales.html
.

10. L'avocat qui agit pour l'accusé lors de la citation à procès est réputé le représenter devant le tribunal, à moins qu'au moment de la citation, il ne déclare que son mandat prend fin et fasse insérer cette mention au procès-verbal d'audience.

Après la citation à procès, l'avocat qui désire cesser d'occuper en fait signifier avis écrit à l'accusé et au procureur de la poursuite et dépose l'original avec les rapports de signification auprès du greffier.

Toutefois, dans les quatorze jours qui précèdent l'ouverture de la session ou au cours de celle-ci, l'avocat qui désire cesser d'occuper doit obtenir l'autorisation du tribunal après avoir fait signifier une requête exposant ses motifs, avec avis d'un jour franc à l'accusé, au greffier et à la Couronne.

Si l'accusé est détenu, le greffier prend les dispositions pour assurer sa présence lors de la présentation de la requête.

Contrairement a ce que plusieurs personne pense le changement d'avocat dans des situations semblable est fréquente du moins ici



Un point important passé sous silence a date le père de Mélina Roberge a des contacts politique
http://www.lapresse.ca/la-voix-de-l...-arretee-en-australie-sa-famille-devastee.php

«La famille est dévastée», laisse tomber le député de Granby, François Bonnardel, qui connaît le père de la jeune femme depuis une vingtaine d'années. Il s'est d'ailleurs entretenu avec lui, mardi matin. «Je lui ai offert mon aide s'il en a besoin pour le consulat, pour le procédé d'extradition pour ramener sa fille. On a passé à travers quelques petits points.»

«Tout le monde est sous le choc. C'est extrêmement difficile», poursuit le député.

Contrairement au prétention de quelqu'un ici qui prétendait qu'il aurait facile de flouer c'est jeunes filles inexpérimentée en ayant recours a un super avocat très onéreux ,afin de tromper la police et récidivé avec succès ,des histoires rocambolesque quoi ? J'en rit encore Lol



Au plaisir




Booker

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Means they are paid for and contracted as opposed to court appointed public defenders who work at taxpayers expense. The ethical obligations are the same in both cases. But one is getting paid by the client or the client's agents, and the other isn't.

The article implied that the new attorneys were retainered, but didn't specifically state. It doesn't sound like a PD situation because PDs who have conflicts never get assigned in the first place. The first attorneys may have been PDs and the second set retainered private attorneys replacing them- this is just educated speculation again, due to lack of detail.

Are you sure about that? From what i remember a retainer or retainered lawyer is just that he/she was paid in advance. Example is large corporations have lawyers on retainers in case something comes up. Look up retainer, means to pay in advance, does not matter who pays.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Are you sure about that? From what i remember a retainer or retainered lawyer is just that he/she was paid in advance. Example is large corporations have lawyers on retainers in case something comes up. Look up retainer, means to pay in advance, does not matter who pays.

It's an expression that we use in the industry a bit more broadly in this situation- and yes it does mean you were paid in advance in this situation (note that I said paid for in the passage you quoted) because (generally speaking) all retainer agreements in criminal cases require some advance payment. However in other matters a retainer can simply mean the attorney is contracted and bills hourly as he goes along. This is usually in business litigation or insurance cases- you don't ask for money up front because your client, based on past history, is repeat business and is good to pay. So in our industry it means both. In criminal cases I get an advance retainer but in 2 recent business litigation matters I concluded it was a straight hourly retainer.

 

[Passionné]

Hello EB

This case isn't about you about what you did or didn't do .
The mules are from Quebec the lead on this are from Quebec that is what was revealed in the articles ,logically they would consult a Quebec criminal lawyer you can argue what you want but the rule of practice of the Superior Court of Quebec criminal division are clear and you have a Big 0 experience with them ,
http://www.tribunaux.qc.ca/c-superie...generales.html
and everyone can read on this Board ,well hopefully !lol


One more thing EB I do understand your threshold as a person
you made it abundatly clear



Cheers



Booker

Yes, there must be important differences in the system, process, and standards of proof between two countries and how the laws function and are applied as there is between states in the U.S. It would seem a lawyer would be the first to recognize this.

I say this about clients, despite the principles and ethics of unbiased justice it would be morally repugnant to me to defend those I knew were guilty of drug pushing, sexual abuse, and the like or accept money from them. For those kinds of crimes they can be thankful there are plenty of lawyers who don't have moral discomfort defending them, as there are plenty of other legal careers where this conflict is mostly absent or not an issue.

As for these Cocaine Cowgirls, they probably had a party attitude and a very frivolous view of moving drugs, as in hey, we're just having fun and helping people have theirs. What's wrong with that. The price.

So all three defendants have different lawyers? Ouch. That choice may have benefits but unless they are being tried separately, which I don't know, wouldn't the chance of a conflict of strategies be a possible big problem?

Cheers

 

[BookerL]

Yes, there must be important differences in the system, process, and standards of proof between two countries and how the laws function and are applied as there is between states in the U.S. It would seem a lawyer would be the first to recognize this.

Hello Passionné

Actually there is more important differences in the system,that puts criminal lawyers at risk while representing drug trafficking gangs .

Léo-René Maranda one of the most prominent Criminal LAwyer in Quebec history story is a testament to it .
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Léo-René_Maranda

Ironiquement, il est lui-même victime, en 1985, d'une accusation portée par la Gendarmerie royale du Canada quand des inconnus avaient introduit à son insu des stupéfiants (marijuana, hashish et cocaïne) dans sa résidence, dont il était absent depuis plus d'une semaine : son fils aîné, Me Jean-René Maranda, lui aussi avocat, le défendit et le fit acquitter

1,6.

En 2003, la Cour suprême du Canada juge inconstitutionnel le mandat de perquisition obtenu et abusive son exécution, le 11 septembre 1996, par la Gendarmerie royale du Canada (GRC) au cabinet d'avocats de Me Léo-René Maranda9,10 — la GRC « soupçonnant C [11] d’être impliqué dans des opérations de blanchiment d’argent et de trafic de stupéfiants », la perquisition « visant tous les documents relatifs aux honoraires et débours facturés à C ainsi que ceux concernant la propriété d’une automobile que C aurait cédée à son avocat en paiement de services professionnels »

The RCMP TRIED to frame him not once but twice .




Cheers




Booker

 

[Mr. Banana]

After 12-15 years they will release her with a criminal record and no skills. Maybe her looks will be gone, who knows. What are her prospects?

 

[EagerBeaver]

After 12-15 years they will release her with a criminal record and no skills. Maybe her looks will be gone, who knows. What are her prospects?

These girls apparently had nothing jobs working part time at a Jewlery store. They will be able to go back and get similar nothing jobs but you are right that both girls will likely not be as attractive when they get out of jail.

 

[BookerL]

when they get out of jail.

A question Sir ,doesn't the Crown need to prove Criminal intent http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/5010/what-is-intent-in-criminal-law.aspx,

Or they simply have no defense here ?





Cheers





Booker

 

[EagerBeaver]

A question Sir ,doesn't the Crown need to prove Criminal intent http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/5010/what-is-intent-in-criminal-law.aspx,

Or they simply have no defense here ?





Cheers





Booker

Based on what we know it's not looking too good for them. In cases like this the prosecutors office throws money/resources into it because it's politically important. That makes things harder. My money is on them both doing long jail sentences unless someone pulls a rabbit out of a hat. I wouldn't bet on acquittals.

And stop it with the mens rea questions. Someone found with suitcase full of drugs is deemed to know the contents of their bags. Could a stash be proven - possibly but not likely. The trier of fact is not required to believe stories about how things got into one's suitcase and in fact there are warnings posted at most airports to watch/secure your luggage.

 

[EagerBeaver]

I think a strategy of them getting pregnant prior to trial would be useful in minimizing the potential prison sentence.

Agree 100%.

Here is the biggest problem these two have at trial: credibility. The stash defense depends on them taking the stand and also being credible. How credible can they be to a trier of fact when they can't explain how they got the money to pay for a $22,000 cruise? What explanation can they come up with that sounds even remotely plausible? They will sit back and let the prosecutor put on his or her case which is drugs found in their luggage and either they take the stand to claim a stash and open themselves to a cross examination from hell, or they sit back and shut up. I never allow Clients who are stunods to talk more than they need to in depositions or in Court.

I lost a civil trial a month ago. I knew I was taking the loss in advance, only question was whether I would get a reduction for plaintiff's comparative negligence. I did not and I think it was mainly because the Client was forced by her admissions to the police officer investigating the accident to concede too much. Client knew she did not do well and it was too bad because she is actually a nice person but she should have kept her mouth shut at the scene of the accident. Unfortunately the case comes to me , like most, after the damaging admissions are made and it's then too late to tell the client to shut up. These admissions of a party opponent are always evidence that is admissible as an exception to hearsay rule.

 

[EagerBeaver]

I wonder if Australia is one of those damn modern countries that thwarts any good idea with technology such as video monitoring. I like the idea of a male lawyer meeting with each of them once a day behind closed doors and getting both of them pregnant. They will blame it on rapes by the male prison guards (unless Australia only has female prison guards for female prisoners). With all of the publicity as to how they were denied bail in a strange foreign country so they could be gang raped, everyone will have so much sympathy and will be so distracted that they will forget all about the drugs. Everything would have to come together just right, but the process really could work for two pretty girls in a manner that would cause some high level person in Australia to just say get them the fuck out of this country. When they get back to Canada, they could be idealized by religious folk since they both decided to keep the babies. It would take one or two unscrupulous male attorneys willing to risk their law licenses for sex, trusting the girls to never reveal the truth, getting the court to allow daily visits, no video surveillance, the existence of male guards, and getting the media to buy the story. Better chance of complete freedom for them if it could all come together than a trial for the drugs, though.

Problem in that scenario is what attorney will want to pay child support for 18 years just for one fuck. Cheaper by light years to hire an escort. Pregnancy is not going to happen for these two. However I think bail was denied because they are quite simply huge flight risks. Nobody is talking about Tamine who is faced with the possible prospect of spending the rest of his life in prison.

 

[EagerBeaver]

You are probably right. But if it is one attorney he probably gets laid 60 to 100 times if it goes on for a month or two and is only interrupted by menstrual cycles or the lack thereof causing the girl to declare herself pregnant. She can never risk arguing that he is the father because she is playing the sympathy card for life as a result of the rapes by the prison guards. Probably only worth the risk for an old attorney ready to retire anyway, but the old guy might not be able to get it up that much, and if the girls believe the statistics regarding autism being more prevalent for children of much older dads, they might worry that their freedom back in Canada might not be as great as they thought. Just a far fetched idea, but getting these chicks sprung from Australia ain't going to be easy with that much cocaine. It would take one hell of a high risk, high reward plan.

You ever heard of this invention called a paternity test? The rape story will not fly and will be busted when all the prison guards submit to one in order to prove the lie. I don't see the Australian prison guard union taking this one lying down.

 

[cloudsurf]

Patron....ever consider writing for a TV series ?

 

[A12B]

I believe Tamine is extremely THE key guy into this whole ordeal. Now, either the girls come clean and fear their lives afterwards or they keep it shut and find escape goats together with Tamine ... . I truly believe Tamine is the Sugar dad paying for the trip entirely because he has the contact with the Godfather and he has the contract to make this happen. Who he decides to choose to work with him is out of the Godfather's hands. He has been around and done many and many of those transactions to be flagged by Canadian intelligence. How do you explain somebody who has no jobs, not under unemployment insurance, not under welfare system can travel this much over and over again ? At one point, in all evidence, he will get flagged and be traced. The girls happened to be blind sighted by the luxury that Tamine had sold to them in exchange of taking some risk, which probably was expressed as 'minor risks'. Who knows, may be these girls were in prior trips but in a smaller scale to see how they work. There must be some kind of intelligence following them even prior to this bust.

In any case, I think cocaine cowgirls here were not educated of the potential danger of being taken away by dream vacations for free and some pocket money expenses. Nothing is free in this world. There is always a price tag in anything that comes free ... . I wouldn't want to be the father of these girls to be honest. I actually sympathize with their parents. All this because they wanted to see life in the fast lane and Tamine flashed his cash and trips pretty good. All in all, they met with the wrong person at the wrong time .... .

However, this will essentially be a good case to set up a (or another) precedence and open people's eyes on what happens when it's too good to be true.