Race/Ethinicity Question

[talkinghead]

It's actually fairly common in the American deep south. I have also seen some indies who do not exclude all, but some black men, saying "professional black men only." I think the translation on that is guys like Puff Daddy Coombs who can afford the HDH rates, but I don't really know what it means.

There are at least 4 or 5 reasons for the rejection, based on the conversation we were told by the OP, that are not racial. So I am not compelled towards any conclusion until all the evidence is in, which includes Sam telling the girl's side of it.

You guys simply rushed to judgment, much like the people who convicted Galileo based on the Earth being flat or the Salem Witch Trial judges who sanctioned the hangings of dogs based on one person saying the dogs gave her the "evil eye." The dogs did not testify.

In different arenas, you and I both interpret and argue for a living, so I'm going to respond because it's a form of pleasure for me. But skip this if you're not interested.

First, what 4 or 5 reasons did you find in the OP's description? His post seemed respectful and reasonable. He's not local; neither are we. He's new to the area; that might have set off alarms except that he implied (I think) that she looked through the peephole and hesitated. (That might be a questionable assumption on his part.)

Second, I appreciate your skepticism, waiting for all the evidence. But that rarely happens on this board, maybe never. The real problem, I would say, is that it was a first post.

Finally, Ricky bonds, there's a world of difference between personal attraction and professionalism. It's one thing if you don't find "dark skinned women" attractive, it's another if you refuse to do business with them because of their skin color. SPs don't see men based on personal attraction, obviously; they see all kinds of men whom they don't find personally attractive. To decide that they won't see a man because he's black has little to do with desire or attraction; it's clearly based other (cultural) factors.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Finally, Ricky bonds, there's a world of difference between personal attraction and professionalism. It's one thing if you don't find "dark skinned women" attractive, it's another if you refuse to do business with them because of their skin color. SPs don't see men based on personal attraction, obviously; they see all kinds of men whom they don't find personally attractive. To decide that they won't see a man because he's black has little to do with desire or attraction; it's clearly based other (cultural) factors.

I completely agree with this and that was the point of my post. In all these years I have yet to hear an escort refuse a White man based on his race? It is almost unheard of yet we see a very consistent pattern of escorts refusing men of color especially Black men. You wrote the million dollar answer. The refusal is based on bigotry or prejudices. My point is not to discuss her right to refuse my point is the reason of the refusal which I say is the problem. This is very unprofessional and also very damaging to ones ego. Personally if I were a Black man I would never bother with the sex business... Way too much discrimination.

 

[Ricky bonds]

Finally, Ricky bonds, there's a world of difference between personal attraction and professionalism. It's one thing if you don't find "dark skinned women" attractive, it's another if you refuse to do business with them because of their skin color. SPs don't see men based on personal attraction, obviously; they see all kinds of men whom they don't find personally attractive. To decide that they won't see a man because he's black has little to do with desire or attraction; it's clearly based other (cultural) factors.

It can be based on cultural factors, fear, stereotypes, attraction, rumours, myths etc..
The most common mistake any man can make when involved in this wonderful world of sin, is to assume that because it is a business..that real world business rules apply? Well they don't.
if a mcdonalds or steak frites st paul were to refuse a customer on grounds of their ethnicity? Then yes it would be shocking and totally questionable.
but when a girl chooses to give herself intimately to someone regardless of their reasons..be it money or no money, she has the final say, point finale. That is not to be questioned by anybody of any particular race, colour or creed.
there are no rules amongst illegal things apart from those you establish for yourself..and there are no rules amongst anything that involves your body, intimacy, and sexuality besides the limits and boundaries that you impose upon yourself!...who are any of us to question a sp's limitations?..seriously.
This is not mcdonalds and the customer isn't always right.

 

[Halloween Mike]

What I find interesting is that there is a general pattern here of escorts refusing men of color. Has anyone ever heard of an escort refusing White men due to this race?

That would mean cutting there business by 3/4 unlike white escort cutting there business by 1/20 maybe at most...

 

[CLOUD 500]

It can be based on cultural factors, fear, stereotypes, attraction, rumours, myths etc..
but when a girl chooses to give herself intimately to someone regardless of their reasons..be it money or no money, she has the final say, point finale.

But this is not even the point the point is the pervasive pattern here. I mean age, weight, and appearance does not seem to be an issue but race is. The mindset is there so it is acceptable for these ladies to do so. Bigotry is learnt and thought... No one is born with it. In the escort world it is very normal to read No Black men. No one will find it unusual. Ever heard of a client being refused because he is too ugly or too old or got a big belly?

Check... I am the opposite of you... I am not physically attracted to White women especially those pure laine types. I will not date a White girl and I will not for sure pay to have sex with one. But hey if a White girl wants to have sex with me I will surely not refuse. If I am at a Merb party and win a one hour free session with an agency with only White girls I will surely book one. Here lies the difference.

 

[Ricky bonds]

But this is not even the point the point is the pervasive pattern here. I mean age, weight, and appearance does not seem to be an issue but race is. The mindset is there so it is acceptable for these ladies to do so. Bigotry is learnt and thought... No one is born with it. In the escort world it is very normal to read No Black men. No one will find it unusual. Ever heard of a client being refused because he is too ugly or too old or got a big belly?

this is where i have to casually withdraw myself and refrain from giving my 2 cents over and over again, but before i do..
we are on the comfortable end of the spectum..we window shop and admire half naked girls in sexy pictures and pick and choose amongst the best and give our hard earned money in exchange for having sometimes insane sex, and sometimes regrettable sex with any girl we choose.
the girl who accepts giving up her intimacy in exchange for what we tend to perceive as 'easy money'..might not always fully understand the implications and long term effects this business might have on her mind, body and character.
the fact that she is being paid in exchange for a moment of intimacy with her does not in any way make it right to assume she should do things on 'our terms'..
it is not bigotry, it's called choice! Maybe in eastern europe once a client pays, a girl becomes his property for the time she has been paid for...but last i checked, in montreal ladies have just as many rights as any other citizen, male or female..and within those rights is the right to choose who you decide you should sleep with, regardless of how much money he is offering you.

 

[ssj3]

Actually some SPs do account for attraction (at least partially anyway) when considering whether or not they'll accept a client. This happened to me one time at an incall where I knocked on the door (there was like a 10 second pause before the door opened) and after I came inside the SP said "I had to see what you looked like first. I don't like old guys or ones that have a certain type of look. I have to find something that I'm attracted to." I told her I was flattered lol

 

[Halloween Mike]

But this is not even the point the point is the pervasive pattern here. I mean age, weight, and appearance does not seem to be an issue but race is. The mindset is there so it is acceptable for these ladies to do so.

This could happen... its just less common. I always had this fear that one day it will happen, an escort will enter my room, have a bogus pretext that she forgot something in the car, and then just go away. I hope it does not, but i am ready for it if it does. Its part of the "rules"

There is already other similar things. Take for exemple some escorts who will only see you in 4 or 5 stars hotel room. For me to see an escort i only need 2 things, a shower and an intimate place (a room), i could even do without a bed probably . Yet some want 4 or 5 stars ... Why does it matter to them? If i pay them what they ask for, no negociation at all etc, why do they require me to drop an extra 100-150$ that won't even get to them? Well in there mindset somebody that book in bigger hotels must be richer? Maybe its a way to "screen" for them and dismish the risk of non payer or whatever. Does it sucks for a guy like me that would save his money just to see them? Yes... But its there choice, nothing i can do about it.

Maybe its 2 different things, its not like she refuse to see a person entirely but you get the point...

This business is full of factors and differences. I see girls at 200$ that have nothing to envy to the "high end" 300-400$ SPs. But its there business, there choice, if they want to advertise at more.

We could even go on why some allow certain services, some don't. Maybe thats closer to current situation. Maybe girl A will allow Guy A to do cim with her, but will refuse it with Guy B. Maybe Guy C may get it by paying an extra while Guy A got it included. Girl B will refuse entirely to do it...

This business is all about YMMV and i think the race thing is part of said YMMV

In the latest years to be honest there is a very strange thing going on that i call reverse racism. Basically back in the day black peoples(or other races) where threated poorly, discriminated, forced to sit together in the bus etc etc. They could be denied job and so on. It was bad and its a GREAT THING it changed. But now a day you mention just the slightest thing, for exemple if i say "i wish next time i take the taxi, i wish the driver understand what i say and i can understand him fine, maybe even have a nice conversation"

Then people will point figure and scream "racist" !!! Why? Is it a crime to want to be serviced properly? Did i mentioned the driver have to be white? NO. I want to receive good customer service. But just because 85%+ of taxi drivers in mtl are foreigner , and a good % of those speak very limited french, people imediately presume its a racist comment.

Social Justice Warriors and the Politicaly Correct in today's societé is SOOO over the top, to a point that it bugs me, and your not even allow to speak a basic feeling anymore.

Anyway maybe im going all over the place in this, but the basic bottom line is "they can do what they want" Same actually occur with porn. Interracial is considered a fetish basically and when one pornstar have her first interacial, its a big thing. Some will never do it in there career and its clearly listed in there agency profile... It is what it is.

 

[BookerL]

What I find interesting is that there is a general pattern here of escorts refusing men of color. Has anyone ever heard of an escort refusing White men due to this race?

Yes but uncommon,
If we where talking outcall ,the area where they are located does matter to girls and they do avoid clients of any race of that area .
I was avoiding l'Acadie area and Montreal North area




Cheers




Booker

 

[CLOUD 500]

There is already other similar things. Take for exemple some escorts who will only see you in 4 or 5 stars hotel room. For me to see an escort i only need 2 things, a shower and an intimate place (a room), i could even do without a bed probably . Yet some want 4 or 5 stars ... Why does it matter to them? If i pay them what they ask for, no negociation at all etc, why do they require me to drop an extra 100-150$ that won't even get to them? Well in there mindset somebody that book in bigger hotels must be richer? Maybe its a way to "screen" for them and dismish the risk of non payer or whatever.

This is a way to screen out cheap clients or clients with not much money to spend. I seen this thing mostly in the independants... Their rates seem to be all over the place some charging $500/hr and some with a two hour minimum. But this I got no problem with... I do not see this as discrimination and neither is this bigotry.

Maybe its 2 different things, its not like she refuse to see a person entirely but you get the point...

In the latest years to be honest there is a very strange thing going on that i call reverse racism. Basically back in the day black peoples(or other races) where threated poorly, discriminated, forced to sit together in the bus etc etc. They could be denied job and so on. It was bad and its a GREAT THING it changed. But now a day you mention just the slightest thing, for exemple if i say "i wish next time i take the taxi, i wish the driver understand what i say and i can understand him fine, maybe even have a nice conversation"

Then people will point figure and scream "racist" !!! Why? Is it a crime to want to be serviced properly? Did i mentioned the driver have to be white? NO. I want to receive good customer service. But just because 85%+ of taxi drivers in mtl are foreigner , and a good % of those speak very limited french, people imediately presume its a racist comment.

Social Justice Warriors and the Politicaly Correct in today's societé is SOOO over the top, to a point that it bugs me, and your not even allow to speak a basic feeling anymore.

You nailed it right on... Everyone trying to be politcally correct. One has to watch what they say. Some people lost their jobs based on their opinion. There was something on the news about a teacher at a private school in British Columbia who voiced his opinion on being against abortion... One girl took offense and filed a complaint. To make a long story short the teacher was dismissed. Many people are so quick to call racism especially on those so called cop brutality. Personally I do not care much about being politically correct.

 

[EagerBeaver]

First, what 4 or 5 reasons did you find in the OP's description?

Ricky Bonds already provided them:

Those are definitely legit reasons EB..drunk, stoned, just plain mean looking, ressemblance of a relative, dirty, dirty hands, smelly, rough, too direct, not polite, just plain akward, too shy, visually mentally unstable etc...we've heard them all from time to time again.(.

Are we able to rule out any of those things from what the OP told us? Of course not, because we do not have the other side of the story. The OP rushed to judgment as to why he was rejected and everyone else rushed with him. I am here to tell you that I have seen threads like this started on MERB before and they were not only wrong in their conclusion, but badly backfired on the OP, who should have dealt with the issue privately and found out the true score. I am not prepared to give the benefit of any doubt until I hear from Sam on this matter. Everyone has conveniently ignored a bunch of things which should cause skepticism, not the least of which are several posters have reported they aren't white and have never had a problem with XO, and from what I can remember at the XO party, there was more than one black guy there, and a bunch of other visible minorities.................so in my view this thread is just an unproven accusation. The OP has the same posting history acumen as any of Tony's 10,000 handles, and if you rule this guy out as being Tony, you do so at your own risk..........and if it is Tony, he is laughing his ass off at all of you, again.

 

[ssj3]

Who's this Tony? I'm guessing it's a long story?

 

[talkinghead]

Well, if there's a good reason to doubt the OP, then I didn't realize that. Again, it comes down to the fact that the OP is unknown (or known!).

Otherwise, there's some confused argumentation going on in this thread. It looks like this:
1) statement: denying service a priori (as a condition before meeting) to people of color is troubling and likely offensive
2) response: escorts have the right to set their own conditions and limits, seeing only whom they want to see.

But that response is beside the point. I don't think anyone is saying they don't have the right to deny service, if only because it's a profession that is not regulated by anti-discrimination laws. (If it were, the practice would clearly be illegal, at least in the US. A doctor or lawyer can't refuse to see entire demographic groups based on race or sex.) The question is whether the practice is offensive. And it's not comparable to "menu" items, for any number of reasons, including the simple fact that those menu items are both generally assumed (GFE, etc; there was a thread about this recently) and also understood to be YMMV. What we're talking about is a blanket condition that has nothing to do with sexuality and everything to do with cultural attitudes about race. Now we might discuss whether those attitudes are legitimate--profiling; but there's no point in talking about attraction, intimacy, or rights.

 

[newman1]

Talkinghead, are you okay?
antidiscrimination law?..first escorting is not legal so the antidiscrimination law does not apply here!

 

[Passionné]

Well, someone had to mention the name of T the troll king, so now whether he did this or not he can laugh for the simple fact he's in some people's heads and has achieved his goal of tainting another issue when people cast doubt because of their memory of his crap. How many posts already because of this? LOL! Good job.

At the moment jumping to suspicion of this being a fraud is more counterproductive than it would have been to leave it be. We know Black men face this issue sometimes and no agency can weed out ladies who may feel this way so I at least would never blame XO or any agency for this kind of thing. I also prefer not to call anyone a liar until there's something I can see going on.

What is slightly puzzling is the lack of response from rbrown1000 to the suspicions. As I said before it's possible there is something else going on. But I would have erred on not making this an issue rather than giving the king of trolls the satisfaction of being mentioned. Bad move chasing his tail. To him credit is much better than being anonymous.

 

[bbcbz]

I am not white either...

I totally agree with you. 9s and 10s are flying in here. But like you, I do not hobby often like others. Maybe we're not lucky.

For the racism part, same thing as you. There will always be racism from every races, not just from the whites.

 

[Maria Divina]

RBrown1000:

First, I'm sorry to read that maybe could exist a kind of discrimination that you weren't aware before booking. (I'm using the conditional because like EB has underlined, presently is just presumptions)


And, of course people know me here, I like to add to enrich discussion by bringing other points of views.

I had recently someone writing to me, that for him he sees escorts like any other professional he is using in his life: lawyer, doctor etc, and that's why he was using the term "services" and this way, he was able to keep the distance if ever he sees an escort in a store, like he would have done with any other professional he would used. Mind him, I wasn't sharing his point of view totally, because, and I told him, there is a big major difference with other "pro" he was using, we are talking about intimacy. I don't want to use a pejorative example, but let's say that I would be another kind of entertainer, like a singer/musician. I think this is just normal that the singer/musician will want that the most people will like and appreciate her artistic work. Yes, artists are putting a lots of themselves in their works often, but I think SW are the most personally implicated in their "talents". In general in life, we are all agreeing that we are having 100% the rights to choose with who we are going to share intimacy, right? It was a time, and sadly still some people think that SW are not allowed to choose, and they just have to shut, take the cash and be 100% under the orders of her client. Sorry but that's not how it works really. Even the people who are kinky/BDSM will need respect, communication & connivence. The other who just want to win other someone against their will are just plain, sorry maybe to open the eyes to some, having a real mental disorder in the category we can find the "serial killers", and that's a psychopathy.

This said, I don't see why the SW won't be authorized to screen and choose with whom she is going to share her particular intimate talents. But in this field of activity, it seems that the most your are popular/beautiful, the most your are having really the choice to go more with your personal tastes because "money doesn't matter really then" (- if you are not pushed/forced by people surrounding you when you are working in some agencies like we saw in the past-)

So in life, if this young lady is not attracted to people from other ascendants she just won't approach them. And that won't be a big deal, even if this could be called by some "racism" when you are not physically attracted to be promiscuous with some based on their appearance that could be related to their genetics. I know some may be racist for real, some may be having told by their black boyfriend to not meet other black boys, and you have to be aware that there are even in some strip club a policy about to keep the less black guys inside, because there are gang of black in the sex industry in Montreal, or also, just a number enough important of "black pimp's" in Montreal that are just looking for a new poulette to make big bucks on her back.

So there are numerous reasons to refuse to meet black/brown clientèle for jolie and young demoiselles in Montreal. And maybe, the girl in question had have a bad experience in the past, who knows?

I think if a girl is working in an agency, that's the obligation to the owner to know some details about each girls to ensure he or she will be well representing her after. And please gentlemen here, don't call an agency asking to force a girl to meet with you or "to correct the situation". That's just plain wrong most of the time. Of course, a feedback is always welcome but if a girl is well performing with some and not with others, it might be some reasons based on you. That's why a review is always subjective. But, we have to agree there are girls that are "really for real" much more open and really loving people in general, and some others that are more reserved and less able to socialized with any kind of people. I don't tell that's wrong, but that's just a reality.

Ok now, I have to take my coffee. Sorry if this could look bad written, I wrote it in one shot. xx

 

[EagerBeaver]

Maria,

I am glad you posted because you were also at the XO party.

Was I seeing things or were there several black men and other visible minorities at that party all seeming to have a very good time talking to you and the other ladies who were there?

 

[Maria Divina]

I'm the kind of person who adore people, whatever their backgrounds. And of course, people who are "strangers/visitors/having different origins" are just really interesting for me, because we will be certainly talking about other subjects, and maybe live something different too. I like diversity, and I don't want to insult nobody, I like locals as well of importations to be on my menu ;-)

So of course EB, you will be always able to see me be in a good mood with everyone. That's my ordinary mood. So yes, I talked with everyone that approached and that I approached during that evening. That was so very pleasant. I was so happy of that evening.

Why are you asking me that? I don't discriminate personally based on "racial traits". I simply discriminate based to avoid psychopath and to have the more fun encounters possible then.
You know that, no? :kiss:

By the way, the winner of my little lottery of the last party is black.

You have to know, I won't be attracting pimp's generally (of course, they are been exceptions...) but they like young and less young innocent girls who can believe their BS.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Maria,

I don't think you answered my question which was did I correctly observe at the XO party several black men and other visible minorities all having a good time? Or was I seeing things?