Ziggy Montana said:
Abstraction doesn't have to be oversimplistic. Your own discreditation of abstraction, on the other hand, is oversimplistic and, furthermore, contradicting its own premises, let alone distorting my own words.
First and foremost, you have proposed, thus far, no alternative to abstraction. Understood that abstraction is only another imperfect way to knowledge, what's yours?
Corollary to that, your own statement would fit in the category of abstractions, actually in two contradicting fields of abstractions: relativism and determinism. Read your own words: "multitude of factors leads escorts or dancers to this way of living" which, in a way, contradicts the following statement: "sure there are a mulitude of factors result in her life style choices..", the operative words being "LEAD" and "CHOICES". So is she "lead" somehow by some determinant forces you haven't yet identified or is she completely free of her choices, as if there wouldn't be such things as economic, cultural, social, historical, etc. forces of influence? You left the two possibilities open without further explanation. Care to explain how things work, according to you, without resorting to abstractions?
This is the part of your statement that distorts my own statements beyond recognition. I don't see where I passed moralistic judgements on either escorts or strippers. Perhaps our understanding of the word "déshumanisation" migh differ according to the semantic differences between the English and the French versions of the word.
QUOTE
First and foremost, you have proposed, thus far, no alternative to abstraction. Understood that abstraction is only another imperfect way to knowledge, what's yours?
RESPONSE
for me an empirical approach , taking the individual cases on hand, is where I go. I am suspicious of the reasoning that invokes these generalized abstractions...like the dehumanization of the sexual experience if you are a stripper at a dance club.. it carries with it all kinds of issues and judgements, and I have read your posts and know you are not trying to be judgemental at all. Like you, we share here the pleasures of the flesh , generally with good humor and yes, a sort of love of shared experience...
I read articles for example contending that the mp trade or sp trade is feeding the white slave market and kidnapping of young girs, forced into the sex trade. Factually, I am sure that examples can be found, but to date , not my experience...
I read about the dehumanization of women in the sex trade. You applied it to dancers or the street. Seems to me that I can find , empirically other factors that lead to the choice of lifestyles.. For example, some women are so attractive that this is the path of least resistance to big bucks. Flipping hamburgers and having boyfriends that come and go may lead to a conclusion that this lifestyle is better. After all, the guys who can afford them must be somewhat interesting... Or , some might as a result of their background , drawn to instant love and attention... Or, probably a bad thing, a way to finance a bad habit..
All that said, the abstractions ,like the dehumanizing adjective applied, when we use it , import ill- founded judgements... I dont think, but did not re-read , I resorted to abstractions .. and certainly not ill placed ones..lol
now, ziggy , i must say that nowhere on the internet is this discussion , with such interesting exchanges taking place. we are experiencing a unique moment here...
L'atmosphere de jour est certainement plus humaine.
