Should $240 an hour be YMMV ?

[BookerL]

Salut a tous

La question qui suit comment etablis t on la valeur d'une SP .Toute les filles non pas la meme valeurs .Certaine ce demarque pàs uniquement pa beaute mes aussi par ces accomplissement ßon instructions ca sophistication ,une Ròlex n'est pas a la porter de tous mes ces plus prestigieux qu'une timex .
Le YMMV est une chose le prix autres chose je rencontre des Demoiselles dans tout les bareme de prix l'experience est differente !
Parfois unique lorsque la chimie s'installe ,en tant que client nous avons aussi une responsabiliter soi d'etre courtoie et polis et ne pàs avoir d'odeur desagreable ni une forest tropicale ni mauvaise haleine a faire reculer le deboucheur ďe toilette !:lol:
certain client sente tellement mauvais ces indiscriptible .Mes Demoiselles avait des code pour m'aviser quand on en est rendu la ce n'est pas drole .
Malheureusement l'intimite demande certain critere que tous ne remplisse pas .


Aux Plaisirs

Booker

 

[CLOUD 500]

I'm sorry but a YMMV is simply an insurance for us. That we are not in any case obligated to provided some sort of service if we don't feel confortable with a client.
I had client who refuse a shower because it's a 10 minutes lost on his time with me, guess what, Bye Bye.
I had a client who was mean when I refuse greek with him arguing I was doing greek, if I have trouble putting the tip of your dick in my mouth and you are rushing me and trying facefucking me, I don't want to imagine how you would ram my tiny anus. I also had a client who bite my lip so hard I was bleeding, guess what, no BBBJ ... A guy come once with buccal herpes *Not Fresh* but there is no way I would have took the risk kissing him or letting him go down on me.
The truth is, our services are always a YMMV, and a price should not garantee a service or the lost of our free-will/common sense.

You made all valid points. But you fail to see the side of the client. What about the girl that is lazy or the one of those trying to pull a bait and switch? What if the client is clean and respectful and not a cheapass? Where is our insurance?? Given all of this if a SP is not comfortable giving services as advertized then the client is within his right to turn her away and also should not be paying except for the drivers costs. You guys always bring up exceptions and extenuating circumstances. Obviously these guys got no social skills otherwise they would not show up dirty, smelly, or getting aggressive. I am pointing out at lazy girls that give whenever they feel like it or girls trying to scam clients by promising something she never intended to give.

 

[CLOUD 500]

On pourrait fortement délibéré sur ce sujet...mais 20$ ici...20$ la....ça augmente ...alors oui a 220$ pour outcall sa passe ..mais a 240$ hell non...ces assez un moment donné... Et HM je pense UN peu comme toi sur tes points apporter!

P.s.mais l'affaire du YMMV ...ces de la merde pour faire payer plus les clients.... Vis a vis le GBS(gros bon sens).. je parle...tu es GFE ou NON ...point.

I completely agree with you on this :thumb:

 

[RedRooster]

You made all valid points. But you fail to see the side of the client. What about the girl that is lazy or the one of those trying to pull a bait and switch? What if the client is clean and respectful and not a cheapass? Where is our insurance?? Given all of this if a SP is not comfortable giving services as advertized then the client is within his right to turn her away and also should not be paying except for the drivers costs. You guys always bring up exceptions and extenuating circumstances. Obviously these guys got no social skills otherwise they would not show up dirty, smelly, or getting aggressive. I am pointing out at lazy girls that give whenever they feel like it or girls trying to scam clients by promising something she never intended to give.

This is my point exactly. If the girl advertises DFK and you don't get DFK then what are you left to think? Either she is engaging in false advertising or I'm somehow not good enough. If I meet all the other criteria (clean, sociable, respectful, half decent looking) then we're into the same kind of judgment she might use when deciding who to date on a social basis, which is not what we're talking about here is it?

And not trying to outdo anybody here, but I'll tip quite a bit more than $20 for a good full GFE session without any special requests like greek, CIM, what have you. A good old fashioned fun-filled romp does it for me every time.

 

[gugu]

I always hesitate to write in escort sections because I'm a mp guy. What I like about mp, btw, is precisely the fact that the providers are sovereign in deciding the services they provide and that those services are negotiated with each client.

The truth is, our services are always a YMMV, and a price should not garantee a service or the lost of our free-will/common sense.

That sums up everything that has to be said IMHO. And it is the basic message that the three indys made. I know nothing about mojo and their pricing strategy. However, adding in a publicity that it is always YMMV is showing, IMHO, a respect for the providers.

Boards like this one are very useful to create a symmetry of information in the market. That's a good thing. In this case, it's probably more useful for the clients. The "lazy girls" get spotted quite rapidly. But it also helps the providers to better understand the market trends. However, we must be conscious on the pressure it puts on the providers, both from clients and agencies.

My impression, RR, is that you'll most probably get the services you expect and that are advertized if you meet all the criteria you enumerate. The notice is not for you.

 

[RedRooster]

...My impression, RR, is that you'll most probably get the services you expect and that are advertized if you meet all the criteria you enumerate. The notice is not for you.

Er.. yeah.. no. In fact I've been stopped at the lips a couple of times when I was lead to believe Full GFE or specifically DFK was on offer.

Kudos to Mojo by the way. I see their site now shows some girls offering DFK, some only LFK, some extra services for an extra price. If this is accurate then it's raising the bar IMHO.

 

[BookerL]

Er.. yeah.. no. In fact I've been stopped at the lips a couple of times when I was lead to believe Full GFE or specifically DFK was on offer.

Kudos to Mojo by the way. I see their site now shows some girls offering DFK, some only LFK, some extra services for an extra price. If this is accurate then it's raising the bar IMHO.

I must say it does happen when the chemistry is not at rendez-vous ,the SP's are humans not robot .
A good session also depends on a personality match not only on hygiene !
If it does happen to often to the same guy that he is denied DFK or any other basic service of GFE maybe he should think of changing is approach all the girls cannot all be wrong ?
Many time its a question of attitude and ambiance and to treat the ladies has equals not subpar employees .
Courtesy and to be polite and not confrontational usually works .
The SP has to please physically and sexually all of this in minutes not easy.
If you have the feeling in the beginning that its not a match call the booker ,I have replace girls before if their is one pleasing available .

Good Luck


Booker

 

[Merlot]

Gents,

I must say it does happen when the chemistry is not at rendez-vous ,the SP's are humans not robot .
A good session also depends on a personality match not only on hygiene !

I wonder if the big problem with YMMV comes down to Denial and Ego. Everyone writing an honest opinion on this board accepts that YMMV is always in play and a possibility for everyone at any time. That would make it seem like when a YMMV moment arrives people would deal with it rationally, as in, this time it didn't work out. However, that's when they suddenly realize OMG I'm YMMV this time they can't help falling into their own Denial because no one thinks it's going to be him who has to face less than they expected. Their Ego tells them, hey, I'm clean, I'm nice, I'm appealing and charming enough where I won't fall into the YMMV category with anyone...and yet it happens. They know that the ladies aren't "robots" but when that YMMV realization moment falls on them personally they in effect still want the ladies to be like robots, because, hey, I'm clean, I'm paying, you're here now so why not get on with it. This is where almost everyone's acceptance of YMMV in theory fails when it becomes reality.

In contrast I think my own failure related to accepting a YMMV situation is that I have accepted it with a very good attitude, at least in the presence of the lady while she is there. I tend to keep my cool and never complain when I see things are not progressing as I hoped, or in a timely way with the service I thought was coming. I remain a gentleman with no arguing or pushing. That might sound like I'm patting myself on the back, but no. As I said I think that's been my failure in some cases. When a client sees that the situation is not going in a GFE manner as hoped maybe he should call out the lady, politely, gently, with good manners. Point out this is not working out and cut losses right there. It's very hard to realize it's not working out and still take a YMMV situation like a good client.

On the other hand, there were some ladies, especially in the early days, who definitely never had any intention of being GFE no matter who I was or how I looked. As Cloud 500 and others pointed out, sometimes YMMV is a scam, not an honest reaction on either side of the meeting. That situation should not be tolerated and no one should feel reluctant to say...hit the road babe with only a token travel fee when it happens IF there hasn't been any service at that point.

Truly,

Merlot

 

[BookerL]

Gents,

Truly,

Merlot

Hi Merlot and all
Excellent analysis of the situation .

Some ladies that truly doesn't offer GFE will eliminate themselves from the circuit ,
If service is not up to par sometimes
speaking with the booker while you are with the lady might help .
If not with her with a replacement

Cheers


Booker

 

[RedRooster]

If it does happen to often to the same guy that he is denied DFK or any other basic service of GFE maybe he should think of changing is approach all the girls cannot all be wrong ?

Jeez, I would have thought I'd be given more credit than this. I said a couple of times, not every time.

One thing I do notice is that many of us posting from the client side are willing to acknowledge the issues raised by the SPs but there is no reciprocity coming from the other side.

So if I pay the girl up front, as they seem to feel I should, and I'm not getting the service I thought was advertised, I can call the booker, the girl will give me back the money and the booker will happily send a replacement? Are you sure about that?

Merlot, your ego theory is a bit much. I handled the whole thing calmly. What else are you gonna do? Tantrums are for kids and you're not going to change anybody's mind by acting like an asshole. Blanket implied YMMVs make it too easy to cheat. Chemistry? Yeah I guess but for short booking when the girl is seeing a number of other guys that night, is it really such a hardship to deliver on the service advertised or, on the other hand, to advertise the service the girl really intends to deliver? If a girl is only willing to offer LFK, maybe she or the agency would worry that she won't get any bookings so they let that slide. Just sayin'.

 

[Halloween Mike]

When it comes to LFK and DFK this is when i do let most of it pass... You see i DO NOT expect any girl to shove her tongue in my mouth, nor does i would do it myself. I always follow there lead or i put a bit of tongue to see the reception. If i put a tiny bit of tongue and lick her lips, if she want to provide more tongue ill see it right away cause next couple seconds her tongue will be licking MY lips. And then after couple more seconds we will have tongue on tongue action. I had girls who put tongue right away and i was very happy to follow there lead lol. I had girl where when i put some tongue they followed mine and put it too... wich was great. I had girls not putting much even tough i tried a bit... and i respected that. Kissing is important for me because its the starter or me... lol. Its the thing that make me hard. 95% of the girls i am not yet hard even if she udress in front of me... Because seeing SPs has become a normal thing for me... i mean it takes a lot to ge the WOW factor(as Darrel would put it) anymore. Second SP i saw, first outcall in my hotel room in MTL, i remember i was in shock when i opened the door. She was so pretty, big natural boobs, i was like and probably made a jaw droping face. She asked me to use the hotel phone to confirm and i said yes, this is when my brain turned off for a little while... when i came back to realize what was happening she was already in her bra and oh boy... :nod: i was hard as nail.

But this was 5 years ago. Now i need something to start me up, and its usually kissing and touching. So no kissing would be a mood killer for me.. BUT LFK is ok... i never complaint because there was not full deep tongue action. On the other hand a BBJ is done or not... I mean she either want to pull out a rubber or she don't... Again not all SPs act the same. Some suck on the skin... more lightly and without "entrain" and some pull down the skin and suck on your "gland" like its the best lollipop they ever tasted... To each there thecnic and the BJ thecnic is one of the main reason will i repeat or not... lol. But if she do it the "wrong way", i may try to hint it would be better with the skin down or something, but i never pushed it... As long as there no fucking rubber.

La question qui suit comment etablis t on la valeur d'une SP .Toute les filles non pas la meme valeurs .Certaine ce demarque pàs uniquement pa beaute mes aussi par ces accomplissement ßon instructions ca sophistication ,une Ròlex n'est pas a la porter de tous mes ces plus prestigieux qu'une timex .
certain client sente tellement mauvais ces indiscriptible . Malheureusement l'intimite demande certain critere que tous ne remplisse pas .

Pour le point 1, bin perso ces pour sa je suis pas d'accord a charger plus ou moin pour certaine fille. Selon moi chaque SP devrais etre le meme prix dans une agence, et offir une excellent experience. Si elle ne peut le faire et que le boss a trop de plainte... renvois. Sinon qu'elle est faite des etudes et qu'elle soit plus sophistiquer... bin la.. tse je m'en fou pas mal qu'elle conaisse la fusion nuclear moi... je suis la pour avoir du plaisir charnelle. Les Indies ces different et ces pour sa j'accepte plus le fait qu'elle charge plus cher. Elle gere eux meme leur "carriere" et bref ces pas pareil. Une agence devrais etre standardisé... Que seulement certaine fasse certain extra oui, mais GFE de base pour tous, et meme prix. Pour le point 2 moi sa me depassera toujours. Comment tu peut esperer te faire sucer le penis quand tu sens mauvais en bas.. Jveut dire jme lave le matin... comme tout le monde, parfois je revien d'une journee active le soir et shit je sens l'ordeur... je me relave... et se juste pour moi, je vais rien faire de sexuel lol. Je comprend pas comment les gars peuve vriament se presenter de meme avec les filles... esperer se faire sucer apres avoir pisser genre sans se laver la queue comme il faut... m'enfin..

So if I pay the girl up front, as they seem to feel I should, and I'm not getting the service I thought was advertised, I can call the booker, the girl will give me back the money and the booker will happily send a replacement? Are you sure about that?

In dreamland maybe.. lol Thats why paying up front is never a good idea. Once they engaged in sex, even just a little, girls tend to not want to give back any money or expect a huge compensation like 75$ or more... even if they just kissed and undress and are stoped at the BBBJ because they want to do CBJ. Of course its rare we see those kind of thing in merb agencies, but thats why i avoid the newspaper ads and annonce123 and other stuff like that. To me no payment/compensation should be expected as long as she didn't had junior in mouth... lol

I always hesitate to write in escort sections because I'm a mp guy. What I like about mp, btw, is precisely the fact that the providers are sovereign in deciding the services they provide and that those services are negotiated with each client.

And thats why MP are a no-go for me. Because if i pay 200$ i want the full GFE... i want to be sure ill get it, and in reputed agencies you do... Going at the massage parlor, loosing 60-100$ (dunno how it cost) only to realze once it started and i paid that i won't be able to get the full thing... NO THANKS. Only incentive massage parlor would have is being able to physically choose your provider... not just based on pics. But its not a juice worth the squeeze... oh NO.

 

[BookerL]

Hi all

So if I pay the girl up front, as they seem to feel I should, and I'm not getting the service I thought was advertised, I can call the booker, the girl will give me back the money and the booker will happily send a replacement? Are you sure about that?

Each agency have their own policy I know that in certain situation when I was sure my girl was at fault ,I was replacing but not after 30 minutes ,within the first 5 to10 minutes you should already know it it will be a good chemistry or not as long as the lady is not undressed even if she is paid no service was offered and certain times for extreme reasons the girl started her period and customer complained while the lady was still with her so I could verify both stories ,I did offer a replacement .You do not want to send your good clients elsewhere by being unreasonable .

Merlot, your ego theory is a bit much. I handled the whole thing calmly. What else are you gonna do? Tantrums are for kids and you're not going to change anybody's mind by acting like an asshole. Blanket implied YMMVs make it too easy to cheat. Chemistry? Yeah I guess but for short booking when the girl is seeing a number of other guys that night, is it really such a hardship to deliver on the service advertised or, on the other hand, to advertise the service the girl really intends to deliver? If a girl is only willing to offer LFK, maybe she or the agency would worry that she won't get any bookings so they let that slide. Just sayin'.

Some agencies might let many things slide some not has much if you notify the booker you will see what he answers ,plus the SP might offer many different things that are on the menu she is simply not a good kisser ,I highly prefer DFK but if doesn't happen and the rest is great ,I will not complain !
And sometimes you are victim of bad luck the previous client grossed her out ,she needs time to get back to her senses ,many scenarios or possible even great SP have cold reviews you cannot please all its impossible .


Great hobbying



Booker

 

[Halloween Mike]

when I was sure my girl was at fault ,I was replacing but not after 30 minutes ,within the first 5 to10 minutes you should already know it it will be a good chemistry or not as long as the lady is not undressed even if she is paid no service was offered

I partially disagree. Yes 30mins is way too long. But 5-10... ok maybe ten, but under 10 its hard to judge. I mean first you have to realize it won't work out, then explain it to the girl, obviously, as it would be very rude to just pull out your phone and call the booker while she sit in front of you not knowing whats happening.

Then you mention if she ain't undress... Man i am sorry but whats undressing really? 10$ at the strip club? This do not count for me as a service provided. Like i said i would know when it does not work when she get down on me... If for any reason she don't like my dick, and decide its CBJ only, it would be the "killer" for me. At that point she is nude for sure... Im sorry but no matter if 15mins passed, if we kissed, if she is naked... i expect GFE, she does not provide.. sorry but i am not paying more than 20$ for the "driving" ... Mostly because i will need to call another agency if the booker won't replace... and i need my money... I usually go to MTL with the SPs cost + 30-40$ max for budget expenses like alchool and food. All the rest is calculated (hotel, bus etc)

 

[BookerL]

I partially disagree. Yes 30mins is way too long. But 5-10... ok maybe ten, but under 10 its hard to judge. I mean first you have to realize it won't work out, then explain it to the girl, obviously, as it would be very rude to just pull out your phone and call the booker while she sit in front of you not knowing whats happening.

Then you mention if she ain't undress... Man i am sorry but whats undressing really? 10$ at the strip club? This do not count for me as a service provided. Like i said i would know when it does not work when she get down on me... If for any reason she don't like my dick, and decide its CBJ only, it would be the "killer" for me. At that point she is nude for sure... Im sorry but no matter if 15mins passed, if we kissed, if she is naked... i expect GFE, she does not provide.. sorry but i am not paying more than 20$ for the "driving" ... Mostly because i will need to call another agency if the booker won't replace... and i need my money... I usually go to MTL with the SPs cost + 30-40$ max for budget expenses like alchool and food. All the rest is calculated (hotel, bus etc)

Hi HM
I do not disagree like I have said its case per case ,so in certain situation the time delay will be longer has I did not speak of your scenario here ,the objective is to be reasonable and to respect your patrons ,I know you has a reasonable person but not all customers are like you !
Speaking for yourself is simple but sometimes guys are not always as cool has you are with the ladies .
Thats when it becomes very complicated and we here lots of hearsay not all stories of clients are true.
That is the reason why I wanted to here the story when the SP and the client where still together .
A good agency tries to please their clients and at the same time respect there ladies .
Since you where booker for a short stint you do understand what I am saying .
And I also agree if GFE is promoted it should be rendered unless health risk or hygiene problems .
If chemistry is not at the render-vous and you see it do not hesitate to call the booker ,but like I have said all agencies have their own approach to costumer satisfaction or dissatisfaction!LOL



Regards



Booker

 

[CLOUD 500]

I noticed here a lot of posters are putting the girls as victims. Maybe it is due to some paternalistic instinct. I do not know. Having said that from what I observed GFE is used more as a marketing tool. As you can see the amount of attention Mojo got for writing YMMV on their website that they changed it to GFE. The fact of the matter is GFE sells. YMMV is not very popular so many rogue agencies and independents market themselves as GFE when in reality they are not. They use the bait and switch. I have read too many reviews of girls asking for extra money for certain services included in GFE or some changing their story all together after receiving payment. And they do it because most of these guys are ass lickers or suckers. The girls control them. They get away with it. But clients are as much victims as are the girls. All the reasons why girls do not give certain GFE services are valid however there are just too many con artists or lazy girls. It is impossible to say. From what I see is that the girls are controlling their clients.

 

[Halloween Mike]

Booker,

Yeah this is true, i know there is some very bad clients out there, and i do agree PARTIALLY with Cloud 500 as well. I mean there is bad clients, there is bad providers, thats a fact. Thing is, bad providers are usually easier to avoid for the seasoned hobbyist like ourselves. We stick to reputable agency and we are cool. On the other hand, the only defense against a bad client is the screening on phone of the booker. This can be NA if the guy text... So sometimes the girls are into hard situations. I will always have much reasonale doubts on a merb member with 2 post and a sign up of 2 days ago complaining about a meeting with a reputable girl. Thats a no brainer.

On the other hand, like the guy with sweet montreal, thats a different story. The agency being known to be shitty from the get go.

To get back to what you said Booker, sorry yeah i tend to compare to much to my own situation sometimes, i forgot your exemple was more general. I agree if a client waste 25 minutes talking to a girl, only to have her undress and realize either she is not physically what he hoped or, or he realized he lost too much time, then of course its his problem.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Booker,

Yeah this is true, i know there is some very bad clients out there, and i do agree PARTIALLY with Cloud 500 as well. I mean there is bad clients, there is bad providers, thats a fact.

But now your frame of reference is based on Merb Culture. Remember Merb represents a small portion of the supply and demand. I was referring to majority and in general. Merb agencies the game is different.

 

[BookerL]

Hi all

I noticed here a lot of posters are putting the girls as victims.

On this I can only answer for myself having been in the business for long I saw exaggerations on both sides to have the client speaking to you in front of the girl made it simpler to analyses and see who was lying ,having some he said she said will never the matter ,A question for you CLOUD does a client have motive to lie ?He wants a freebie !

Maybe it is due to some paternalistic instinct

That wouldn't be incest?LOL figuratively speaking .

I do not know. Having said that from what I observed GFE is used more as a marketing tool.

it is one marketing tool but if the girls does live to the standard it will play against you

As you can see the amount of attention Mojo got for writing YMMV on their website that they changed it to GFE. The fact of the matter is GFE sells.

PSE also cim swallow Greek also ,some clients told me they where looking more at girls offering Greek even if they did not want Greek because it showed that the girl was more open minded

YMMV is not very popular so many rogue agencies and independents market themselves as GFE when in reality they are not. They use the bait and switch. I have read too many reviews of girls asking for extra money for certain services included in GFE or some changing their story all together after receiving payment. And they do it because most of these guys are ass lickers or suckers.

You have many good points but does scammers can't last to long in a review system like this board off course if you order out of the community you are increasing your risk of being dissatisfied

The girls control them. They get away with it. But clients are as much victims as are the girls

Truly some clients are victims and are manipulated by girls sometimes a lot worst then not receiving GFE
.

All the reasons why girls do not give certain GFE services are valid however there are just too many con artists or lazy girls. It is impossible to say. From what I see is that the girls are controlling their clients.

Sadly their is many con artist on both sides. the escort industry is unique in the fact that girls are selling intimacy its a adult entertainment everyone needs to understand the difference between fantasy and phantasm and real life and that is where sometimes the clients are caught in a fictitious dreams, for the girls its a job for the client well ?


Warmest Regards


Booker

 

[Halloween Mike]

Yes true, but the problem is.. if you go outside of merb its like going outside of the safe zone. Its at your own risk. Yes i do am aware not everybody know merb, but the thing is if they search well, they will eventually find it. It may sound silly, but as much as the agencies pay Fred to advertise, i think merb should be advertised on the escorts website that advertise here. Why? Cause if for exemple a member get by google search on montrealxxxtase website, have a good time with them, he sees the merb logo, he could discover the board... I know by business and money stand point it would be hard, but for the johns it would really help.

Now for outside merb... now like i said its playing it dangerous. Agencies outside merb are known to be mostly terrible. There is a few legit one like Asservissante (wich still have a banner on merb above but do not list there girls everyday) or maybe a couple others. But most others are known to be B&S, not better than the news paper ads.

As for Annonce 123 and backpages and such... well anybody can make a free ads there... so yeah... B&S, false advertising, even pure simple robbery can occur and the people going there know what to expect, its a risk they are willing to take.

 

[RedRooster]

Deleted for being TMI.