The Joe.T Memorial Yankees Suck Thread for 2007

[korbel]

No correlation.

I have no admiration for Canseco, and his motivation was obviously profit and not justice. But then how many of us do our jobs for altruistic motives? Obviously most of us do our jobs for "the slimey money," though most of us wouldn't call it "whoring." (That's the ladies job! )

I don't admire his motivations or his character, but I reiterate that he told the truth, and none of us would be as well informed about the steriod situation if he hadn't done so. Not a defense -- just a description of his actions.

Hello madmax,

The there is no correlation to honestly earning money ( which not in itself slimey) to what Canseco has done. Are you saying that the average worker has earned their money through gross dishonest deception, then compounded their total flaunting of ethics by profiting from monumental hypocrisy??? Of course not...I hope. I am not contesting the truth of what he alleges, but his revelations sure don't come with clean hands. In a real court case he would be such a tainted witness that his testimony would be total crap without independent verification. We may need a guilty insider like Canseco to root out other offenders, but he is still slimey. If he hadn't blown the money he was paid as a player, as I understand it, I wonder where he would be on this issue...huh. In my view he is incredibly sleazy, especially because his testimony seems directly related to his financial condition before the revelations. However he may serve the ultimate interests of honest baseball by the exposure of some other dishonest players, his seeming profit orientation while doing so has the basic character of I described in my previous post.

My view,

Korbel

 

[Special K]

Teixeira to the Braves

Well, not surprisingly, another Joe.t prediction doesn't come true! I guess Dontrelle is still out there right?

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070730&content_id=2118481&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

 

[Joe.t]

Well, not surprisingly, another Joe.t prediction doesn't come true! I guess Dontrelle is still out there right?

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070730&content_id=2118481&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

Gagne was virtually a Yankee but when the Rangers asked for, (A) a pitching prospect or (B) Melky Cabrera, Cashmen told them thanks but no thanks, Cashman was hoping that the Rangers would bite on Farnsworth or Proctor, i think that Cashman is happy with Hughes and Giambi back in the lineup next week and the expected call up of pitching stud Joba Chamberlain(who i can't wait to see), thats why the Yankees were quite this year.

 

[Special K]

Seriously...why would Texas take a couple of washed up nobodies such as Farnsworth and Proctor??? LMAO! You're too much GM Joe.t!

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Gagne was virtually a Yankee but when the Rangers asked for, (A) a pitching prospect or (B) Melky Cabrera, Cashmen told them thanks but no thanks, Cashman was hoping that the Rangers would bite on Farnsworth or Proctor, i think that Cashman is happy with Hughes and Giambi back in the lineup next week and the expected call up of pitching stud Joba Chamberlain(who i can't wait to see), thats why the Yankees were quite this year.

Yes, Gagne was virtually a Yankee until Texas asked for a reasonable exchange.

 

[Special K]

Trade Deadline Rumblings...

Gagne coming to the Red Sox...Can you believe the Yankees wouldn't give up a 4th caliber outfielder in Melky Cabrera for Eric f'n Gagne??? Looks like boy genius Epstein has out GM'd midget Cashman again!

Now for Jermaine Dye to be brought to Boston!!

 

[EagerBeaver]

SK,

As I indicated earlier in this thread, the Yankees were reported to bow out of the Gagne sweepstakes weeks ago when Joba Chamberlain began to emerge as the leading "in house prospect" as set up man. The Yankees recently began grooming him at triple A in that role. Last night he was clocked at 100 mph in Scranton and struck out the side on 15 pitches. So I don't think Cashman was outmaneuvered, he simply declined to bid due to the cheaper, harder throwing presence of Chamberlain.

While it's a risk to rely on an unproven rookie, they didn't have to give up anything to get Gagne as the Red Sox did by parting with Gabbard, a good looking prospect. Furthermore, the Yankees are apparently going to hang on to Farnsworth, unless another deal is in the works. Farnsworth is there if Chamberlain is not ready, but from what I hear they think he is more than ready.

Melky is now batting over .290, he is leading or close to leading the AL in assists and can play all outfield positions, so I am not sure it would be fair to call him a 4th outfielder at this point. Throw in his stellar baserunning and his improving plate discipline and he is a bona fide starting major league outfielder, admittedly lacking in power, but he is only 22 years old about to turn 23, so one can reasonably expect he will develop 20 HR power down the road. He hit .280 last year, his batting average is currently rising in crescendo fashion and I can envision him being a consistent .300 hitter down the road. Also note that he is a switch hitter.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Gagne coming to the Red Sox...Can you believe the Yankees wouldn't give up a 4th caliber outfielder in Melky Cabrera for Eric f'n Gagne??? Looks like boy genius Epstein has out GM'd midget Cashman again!

Gagne to the Red Sox will help Boston, but he's only under contract until the end of the season. I agree he would have helped the Yankees considerably, but giving up the Melkyman for him might have been too much. Blame the underachieving Johnny Damon for that. The Yankees couldn't part with their future (Cabrera) considering Damon is at the tail-end of his career & struggling. Can't blame the Yankees for not making the trade, but they might have blown their chance to reach the Red Sox by not making the move. However, they still have a good chance to catch the Cleveland Indians for the wild-card spot.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Garnett Trade

Interestingly, the Gagne trade was merely the second best trade in Boston today, as the Celtics' GM Danny Ainge has engineered a heist of the Minnesota Timberwolves, getting Kevin Garnett for Al Jefferson and a cast of wannabes and has beens. Since the Celts also acquired my all time favorite UConn player and best 3 point shooter in the NBA, Ray Allen, in a separate deal, they are suddenly and shockingly the team to beat in the NBA Eastern Conference. I have to root for the Celtics now that they got Ray Allen.

There is speculation that former Celtics great Kevin McHale, Wolves GM, wanted to give a gift back to the fans in Boston. He most certainly did that. Would not be surprised if the Wolves can his ass and he ends up in some lap dog position with the Celtics. Perhaps there is a secret handshake deal on this if McHale is fired.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Garnett, Allen & Pierce all have played their best basketball a few years ago. They're at the tail-end of their careers & i find it's difficult to assess how good they'll do over a whole season. Many consider Al Jefferson to be a franchise-type player. If he turns out to be this way & Garnett is a bust in Beantown, Minnesota made a good trade. Allen has been through a rash of injuries over the past couple of years. Has he recovered enough in order to play consistently great basketball again? The jury is out on that one. I do think Paul Pierce still has a few productive years ahead of him.

By the way, the Raptors now have the best 3-point shooter in the NBA with the addition of Jason Kapono. And i say that they also have the hottest cheerleaders in the NBA.

 

[Special K]

While it's a risk to rely on an unproven rookie, they didn't have to give up anything to get Gagne as the Red Sox did by parting with Gabbard, a good looking prospect. Furthermore, the Yankees are apparently going to hang on to Farnsworth, unless another deal is in the works. Farnsworth is there if Chamberlain is not ready, but from what I hear they think he is more than ready.

Melky is now batting over .290, he is leading or close to leading the AL in assists and can play all outfield positions, so I am not sure it would be fair to call him a 4th outfielder at this point. Throw in his stellar baserunning and his improving plate discipline and he is a bona fide starting major league outfielder, admittedly lacking in power, but he is only 22 years old about to turn 23, so one can reasonably expect he will develop 20 HR power down the road. He hit .280 last year, his batting average is currently rising in crescendo fashion and I can envision him being a consistent .300 hitter down the road. Also note that he is a switch hitter.

Beav,

To get something you have to give up something, Gabbard is just that, a prospect who's had a couple of decent starts for the Sox this year, any reasonable GM would've made the same deal.

As for Melky, watching ESPN's coverage of the trade deadline today they were dumbfounded that the Yankees didn't make that trade, one of the analysts said there are 100 Cabrera's in the outfield right now and he's not anything special. I personally do like the guy and think he's a decent player but by no means a superstar in the making, when you're trying to win now you need to take some risks. Now with Proctor leaving they're going to be rushing Joba into the big leagues and we'll have to see how that turns out. Ever heard of Craig Hansen?

Celtics...Personally, I'm not a fan of this trade. They gave up way too much for a 33 year old basketball player, as Doc said, Al Jefferson has the ability to become a franchise surrounding player, on top of that they included 2 first round picks...I don't get it.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

K is correct. On a good ballclub, Melky is a fourth outfielder. All glove, no power.

Theo is a fucking genius. He parlayed 5 good starts by a marginal prospect into two months of Eric Gagne. The Sox now take a bullpen of seven solid pitchers into the last two months and post-season. An awesome bullpen.

 

[Special K]

K is correct. On a good ballclub, Melky is a fourth outfielder. All glove, no power.

Theo is a fucking genius. He parlayed 5 good starts by a marginal prospect into two months of Eric Gagne. The Sox now take a bullpen of seven solid pitchers into the last two months and post-season. An awesome bullpen.

Rumples...did you see the press conference a short time ago? Apparently Brendan Donnelly will be going under the knife with TJ surgery soon. The Sox knew this for some time and have kept it under wraps so as to not jeopardize their chances of getting Gagne and having to depart with too much. A job well done by the Sox!

 

[Doc Holliday]

The wolves were going absolutely nowhere with Garnett, so why not make the move. This trade is 10x better than the one the Raps made when they got rid of Carter.

I agree with everything you've said. The Wolves have to build for the future & i firmly believe the Celtics threw their future away by making that trade. As for the Carter trade that the Raptors made, that has to be one of the worse trades ever made! Not only that, but they also bought out Alonzo Mourning's contract without him ever playing a single game for them! This trade alone cost former GM Rob Babcock his job. However, on the positive side, that trade likely caused the Raptors to get rid of Babcock & then lure boy-genius GM Bryan Colangelo to the Raptors, which may turn out to be the best move this franchise will ever make in the history of that franchise. And let's face it: any team with a selfish player like Vince Carter will never be a winner.

Back to baseball, i'm surprised that the Jays didn't get rid of some players. Last night's loss likely signed away any hopes they had for the wild card. Teams hoping to achieve success just cannot lose games like the one they blew last night.

 

[EagerBeaver]

You guys need to take a look at the stats put up by Garnett and Allen last year. Both put up some of the best stats of their career. Garnett is only 31 and Allen I believe is 32. Both are among the top players in the NBA at this time. It's true the Celts probably have a 2-3 year window to win with this new core.

Allen had injuries only because he was asked to do too much in Seattle. He had surgery to remove bone spurs in his ankle and he should be ready to put up big numbers with a Celtics team that will not rely upon him being the main man. Allen was the main man at UConn, he has been the main man on NBA teams and now he is finally co-main man with Garnett and Pierce.

Historically in the NBA if you have a premiere perimeter player (Allen), a premiere slashing scorer (Pierce) and a premier inside scorer/rebounder (Garnett), it's a recipe for a championship. Think Philly in '83 with Moses Malone (inside), Julius Erving (slasher) and shooter Andrew Toney ("Fo, Fo and Fo!" prediction by Mo was off by only one).

Note that Garnett, Allen and Pierce are all considered great character guys. The Celtics by these surgical moves eliminated 2 tremendous lockerroom cancers (Telfair and Sczerbiak) and added 2 guys who, with Pierce, are 3 of the top 20 NBA players, all at the end of their prime years and all hungry for a championship.

Mind you I am not giving the Celtics rings just yet. They are thin at point guard and the surrounding cast around the 3 studs needs at least one other veteran player. Rondo is a talented young point guard, but he is an erratic shooter at best and he is the only point guard though Allen can play point in an emergency. The Celtics probably believe they can live with Rondo's erratic shooting because in Allen they just got the best 3 point shooter in the NBA and maybe NBA history. When Allen played at UConn he would pull up 4 feet behind the 3 point line and launch and hit nothing but net, never seen anyone who could do that before or since.

 

[EagerBeaver]

As for Melky, watching ESPN's coverage of the trade deadline today they were dumbfounded that the Yankees didn't make that trade, one of the analysts said there are 100 Cabrera's in the outfield right now and he's not anything special.

I think Melky is underrated. Not only is his arm strong but it's accurate, which is a rare combination. He hustles and plays with great enthusiasm and his teammates seem to be rubbed positively by him. He has also shown a penchant for clutch plays, not just with the glove but on the basepaths and at bat. He is a good all around player except for power production at this time. Those ESPN dudes don't watch the Yankees every day and I would like to know if there are 100 Melkys who are 22 years old in the majors with his skill set, please let me know who they are.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Allen & Garnett

Last year Ray Allen averaged 26.4 points per game, his career high despite playing hurt in 55 games. Garnett averaged 22.4 points and 12.8 boards per game. If you guys think those are the stats of fading players................think again.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Passan's Winners and Losers

Trade deadline's winners and losers
By Jeff Passan

Tuesday, Jul 31, 2007 4:52 pm EDT
Early returns from the trade deadline show two clear winners and a pair of teams in Los Angeles whose inability to swing a deal does not bode well.

Here are the rest of the winners and losers.

Winners

• Atlanta Braves: The Braves got one of baseball's best hitters in Mark Teixeira, a left-handed reliever in Ron Mahay and the second-best relief pitcher on the market in Octavio Dotel. Yes, they mortgaged quite a bit – Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Elvis Andrus and Matt Harrison, all of whom went to Texas, were their Nos. 1-3 prospects on Baseball America's preseason list – but general manager John Schuerholz trusts his scouts to restock the minor leagues. And with the National League up for grabs, the Braves jumped in to take it.

• Boston Red Sox: GM Theo Epstein never budged when Texas asked for Clay Buchholz or Jacoby Ellsbury, and the Red Sox still ended up with the best reliever out there. Kason Gabbard and David Murphy didn't have much of a future with Boston, and 17-year-old outfielder Engel Beltre is at least four years away. Isn't it funny to think back to spring training, when Boston was worried about its bullpen and Joel Pineiro was slated to close? How's this for the seventh, eighth and ninth: Manny Delcarmen, Hideki Okajima, Gagne and Jonathan Papelbon.

• Texas Rangers: Maybe Jon Daniels would have been better served focusing on one big prospect for Gagne instead of his three-player haul. And perhaps he could have gotten more than one big-league-ready player for Teixeira and Mahay. Both are just picking nits. Daniels turned around a bereft farm system over a whirlwind 24 hours, and while that might not be enough to save his job over the next year or two, it could leave his incumbent sitting pretty.

• New York Yankees: Complain away, Yankees fans, about Boston acquiring Gagne. Just know that GM Brian Cashman has better sense than to deal any of the Yankees' young starters when their rotation is full of pitchers who will be playing shuffleboard in a year or two. Getting Wilson Betemit before Alex Rodriguez opts out of his contract was a good buy, even if it does mean the Yankees must rely on Kyle Farnsworth or Joba Chamberlain in the late innings.

• San Diego Padres: Over the last month, GM Kevin Towers has remade a team that was already rather good. In getting Rob Mackowiak (who, since June 29, has the major leagues' fifth-best batting average at .403) and Morgan Ensberg on Tuesday, the Padres added depth to complement the earlier acquisitions of Milton Bradley and Michael Barrett for pennies on dollar. To boost the presence while balancing the future (by trading Scott Linebrink for three pitching prospects), Towers toed the gentle line between overindulgence and passivity.

Losers

• Los Angeles: The Dodgers and Angels both needed a bat in the middle of their lineups. The Dodgers and Angels still need a bat in the middle of their lineups. Their eagerness to hold onto prospects is admirable, certainly, but there comes a point at which their gunshy nature – particularly the Angels' – becomes a detriment. The Angels have the pitching to win the AL West, maybe even the pennant. But that lineup just won't do it.

• The Gagne whiffs: Condolences to Seattle, Milwaukee, Detroit and the New York Mets, whose fans will cringe at every lead from hereon blown in the eighth inning.

• Houston Astros: Acquiring Ty Wigginton for Dan Wheeler set the standard for this deadline. The Astros blew it by holding onto Mark Loretta and Mike Lamb, seeing as their farm system is among baseball's worst.

• Chicago White Sox: The asking price proved too high for outfielder Jermaine Dye, leaving the White Sox empty-handed. Though they still could move Jose Contreras, who likely will pass through waivers, Chicago had a chance to reap good value from either Jon Garland (for Edgar Renteria) or Javier Vazquez and chose not to.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Rumples...did you see the press conference a short time ago? Apparently Brendan Donnelly will be going under the knife with TJ surgery soon. The Sox knew this for some time and have kept it under wraps so as to not jeopardize their chances of getting Gagne and having to depart with too much. A job well done by the Sox!

I fail to see what one has to do with the other.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Those ESPN dudes don't watch the Yankees every day and I would like to know if there are 100 Melkys who are 22 years old in the majors with his skill set, please let me know who they are.

Melky's skill set? He doesn't hit doubles, doesn't hit home runs, doesn't draw walks. He's a defensive specialist, though certainly no Coco.

To my mind, the most interesting thing that happened today was the Yanks picking up Wilson Betamit. A third baseman. Why would the Yankees be picking up a third baseman? Have they seen into the future?