The Official 2007 NFL March to the Super Bowl Thread

[eastender]

Yes....................

Lost in all of this talk about the play of the Patriots offensive and defensive lines is the play of Moss and Welker. I believe Moss and Welker are the best WR combo the Patriots have had since the 1970s with Morgan and Stingley. Moss has 17 catches in 2 games and I believe Welker has 16.

Is there a better white wide receiver in the NFL right now than Welker?

Joe Jurevicius now with Cleveland, never had a quality QB. Mike Furry with Detroit, Dallas Clark with Indy. There are a few others.

Basically with New England Welker is put in a position where he is asked to do what he can do best - get in the openings created by the two wideouts. He can play right or left inside, very few receivers can play both sides equally BUT he is not a #1 outside receiver which is what Miami was looking for nor is he a go to receiver from the inside another of many Miami shortcomings.

Just an example of what New England does best spot players on other teams that are under valued or under used.

New England's depth at the four receiver spots gives them a big edge and the abilities of Tom Brady cannot be understated.

 

[korbel]

Shame, shame, shame. Everyone was looking forward to this game this week, 2 of the top teams in the NFL where meeting.

A team was eventually going to win but we all expected a good game, and then the Chargers forgot to show up!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry to disagree with some of you but it was not so much that the Patriots were that good, the Chargers never showed up! Shame!

Maybe we will find them for the next game or the road to January will not be fun!.

Hello CJ 652,

Yes, as I indicated, it wasn't all the skill of the Patriots. The Chargers had some injuries and they were not at their best. But the ability to be at your best even when you are injured a bit is what makes champions. So while I agree with your statement, the lack of focus and/or proper motivation is never a valid excuse. The Chargers should have been able to make a good game. It is shameful that they didn't. Then again, the Patriots were extremely tough and they were also missing two (pro-bowler Seymour and Harrison) of their best players...not to mention having to get over the effect of all the relentless distraction of the "video-gate" affair. In view of their problems last week...they were remarkable!

Cheerio,

Korbel

 

[EagerBeaver]

Joe Jurevicius now with Cleveland, never had a quality QB. Mike Furry with Detroit, Dallas Clark with Indy. There are a few others.

Eastender,

The star white wide receiver in the NFL, like the polar bear, is an endangered species of animal. Steve Largent, where have you gone? I want to see at least one of these guys have an 80+ catches season, so that we can take these guys off the endangered species list.

Clark is really nominally a TE, although I agree the Colts use him more like a WR. He had a few uncharacteristic drops in the game vs. Tennessee which deflated Peyton Manning's stats somewhat.

I always liked Jurevicius and thought he was drafted way, way too low when he came out of Penn State. He came out the same year as Randy Moss did and I remember there were very mixed views on Jurevicius. But he is certainly not in the star category as is Moss.

 

[eastender]

Mike Furry

Eastender,

The star white wide receiver in the NFL, like the polar bear, is an endangered species of animal. Steve Largent, where have you gone? I want to see at least one of these guys have an 80+ catches season, so that we can take these guys off the endangered species list.

Clark is really nominally a TE, although I agree the Colts use him more like a WR. He had a few uncharacteristic drops in the game vs. Tennessee which deflated Peyton Manning's stats somewhat.

I always liked Jurevicius and thought he was drafted way, way too low when he came out of Penn State. He came out the same year as Randy Moss did and I remember there were very mixed views on Jurevicius. But he is certainly not in the star category as is Moss.

EB,

Mike Furry caught 98 passes last season with a very poor Detroit team.

In the NFL a player has to find a fit where his specific skills match the teams schemes and expectations.

Priest Holmes was stuck in Baltimore but moved on to KC and blossomed, conversely Clinton Portis looked great in Denver but in Washington with an offense that requires a power back he is so-so.

TE is a hybrid position in the NFL these days, not clearly defined.

Jurevicius is a very steady,complete wide receiver who gives his team an honest effort in the # 2 or 3 receiver slot. Moss is Moss, a team has to work around or live with his weaknesses if they want his superlative strengths.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Interesting, I did not know that about Furrey. He is a 30 year old who came into the NFL as an undrafted free agent out of Northern Iowa, and until last year had caught only 21 passes in the prior 3 seasons. I wonder if he is the first undrafted player to have caught 90 or more passes in one season in the NFL.

By the ways, the most passes Steve Largent ever caught in a season was 79. Wayne Chrebet had an 84 catch season with the Jets. Thus, Furrey may unofficially have the most catches by a white wide receiver in one season.

 

[eastender]

Ed McCaffrey

Interesting, I did not know that about Furrey. He is a 30 year old who came into the NFL as an undrafted free agent out of Northern Iowa, and until last year had caught only 21 passes in the prior 3 seasons. I wonder if he is the first undrafted player to have caught 90 or more passes in one season in the NFL.

By the ways, the most passes Steve Largent ever caught in a season was 79. Wayne Chrebet had an 84 catch season with the Jets. Thus, Furrey may unofficially have the most catches by a white wide receiver in one season.

EB,

Ed McCaffrey caught 101 with Denver in 2000.

 

[EagerBeaver]

EB,

Ed McCaffrey caught 101 with Denver in 2000.

And he was a damn good player. Totally forgot about him.

 

[eastender]

Schemes

And he was a damn good player. Totally forgot about him.

Suffered a serious injury the next season and could not come back.

Prime example of a player finding the right fit for his talents. NYG schemes were not suited for his skills yet he fit in perfectly in Denver until injured.

 

[Canadian Joe 652]

You are rigth

Korbel,

I'm not taking anything away from the win of the Pats, they won and with all the distractions of last week that is to be recognized, my point is that the Chargers were better than this and did not show up.

A team is good when defeating the competition, a team is great when it defeats the competition at its best, when the Pats met the best at their best and win then I will be the first one to give them their due.

Now back to suffering about the Chargers.............

 

[korbel]

Chicken or egg.

Korbel,

I'm not taking anything away from the win of the Pats, they won and with all the distractions of last week that is to be recognized, my point is that the Chargers were better than this and did not show up.

A team is good when defeating the competition, a team is great when it defeats the competition at its best, when the Pats met the best at their best and win then I will be the first one to give them their due.

Now back to suffering about the Chargers.............

Hello CJ 652,

This is a bit of the chicken or the egg again. Were the Chargers not at their best capability, or did the Patriots just make it look that way?

It was interesting to see Tomlinson's comments today. I got a laugh when he said it was not a good time for the Chargers to be in Foxboro...lol. Yup...when you call a team cheaters and attempt to taint their achievements you will piss them off. The Patriots had something to prove to the NFL and all the football fans last Sunday and the Chargers were the perfect "victim du jour". I don't think any team would have done well on last Sunday against them, but to have a great team with a big mouth or two visiting on the first payback opportunity was PERFECT. It showed the NFL how much cameras really matter. Then Tomlinson says not only are the Patriots the best team in the NFL right now, but this may be the best Patriots team ever. Whoa...quite an admission after the cheaters comment last week. Did he say it because he thinks it's true? Or was it some sideways excuse for the whipping they got? Maybe a little of both. In any case, I think the point was made loudly. This is what the Patriots are...cameras...or no cameras. Lesson # 1: Bring your A-game baby...because there are no EXCUSES now!

I also caught a flash news item on CNN about the Jets possibly being caught cheating. There was no furthur explanation, but it will be interesting to see how much comes out across the NFL now the the worms are out of the can. He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone. Someone may have thrown too fast.

Good luck,

Korbel

 

[Canadian Joe 652]

Korbel,

Not to take anything away from the perfromance of the Patriots in the last 2 games, but they were in fact caugth cheating! and the excuse used by the coach claiming that his interpretation of the bylaws was in contrast with that of all other human being alive is just lame.

Cheating is reprehensible, the fact is I belive they did not need it, still they did benefit from it, do they do more than just tape the signals of the defensive coaches they face?

If you saw the interview given by the commissioner during the NBC telecast you heard that the taping of the signals migth not be the only thing they did.

500K to the coach, the lost of a 1st round pick on the draft to the team, those are serious consequences that the commisioner will have not applied unless he knew he had the necessary backup.

The Patriots CHEAT! it is a fact!

Are they the only ones? Oh how I wish it was true, but reality and our sad past leads me to think they are not.

Is the whole organisation to blame for this? Of course not, unless someone can prove me the contrary I do not see what a guy like you quarteback could gain and I truly belive there are honorable man in this organisation, but I will also refuse to accept that this is the coach going nuts all on its own, come on! will you want a bridge with that?

Are the wins and in fact the whole season of the Patriots tainted by these facts and allegations, YES!!! I for one belive that I could not embrace a championship where the Patriots win in Arizona, without wondering if it was on the level.

Yes the Patriots won against, again, what I think a bad team from New York and a dismal show from the one in San Diego. Are they good, sure! no doubt they are stacked! Are they the best, maybe will see.

If they come to be the best this year, will we all (outside the Boston bubble) question how much is skill and how much is cheating. You bet your sweet a$$.

CJ


PS Having the fans at Gillette Stadium pay an ovation to Bellichick as he left the field after the win against San Diego brought a comment from the analyst: There goes a man and a program that will only receive such an ovation at Gillette Stadium..........

What a shame! It use to be different.

 

[EagerBeaver]

and the excuse used by the coach claiming that his interpretation of the bylaws was in contrast with that of all other human being alive is just lame.

Belichik's statement was a complete embarrassment in my opinion and made a bad situation even worse.

 

[korbel]

Korbel,

The Patriots CHEAT! it is a fact!

Are they the only ones? Oh how I wish it was true, but reality and our sad past leads me to think they are not.

Is the whole organisation to blame for this? Of course not, unless someone can prove me the contrary I do not see what a guy like you quarteback could gain and I truly belive there are honorable man in this organisation, but I will also refuse to accept that this is the coach going nuts all on its own, come on! will you want a bridge with that?

Are the wins and in fact the whole season of the Patriots tainted by these facts and allegations, YES!!! I for one belive that I could not embrace a championship where the Patriots win in Arizona, without wondering if it was on the level.

Yes the Patriots won against, again, what I think a bad team from New York and a dismal show from the one in San Diego. Are they good, sure! no doubt they are stacked! Are they the best, maybe will see.

If they come to be the best this year, will we all (outside the Boston bubble) question how much is skill and how much is cheating. You bet your sweet a$$.

CJ


PS Having the fans at Gillette Stadium pay an ovation to Bellichick as he left the field after the win against San Diego brought a comment from the analyst: There goes a man and a program that will only receive such an ovation at Gillette Stadium..........

What a shame! It use to be different.

Hello CJ 652,

NO! To say the Patriots cheat is a bold faced lie. Some members of the Patriots organization undoubtedly cheated, not just Belichick. But, that was in the past before this game against your Chargers. We all acknowledged what they did. That reprehensible behavior was over before last Sunday. So the Chargers have NO EXCUSES! And no one else will have that excuse from now on. Do you really think Tomlinson would have said they are the best team in football if he thought they were still cheating. And how could that be accomplished with such heavy press and the harsh security now in effect. Come on CJ, to suggest the rest of the season is questionable sounds like spite not reality. Certainly they are being scrutinized intensely, so if any team is not cheating now it is the Patriots. Say what you want about the first game. But to say it about the 15 games or more afterward is only spiteful and a poor excuse now.

No excuses,

Korbel

 

[Canadian Joe 652]

Korbie,

You are rigth, the Chargers have no excuse about thet lost, they lost, the Pats won, they did not show up, the Pats did, overcomming a number of handicaps (including the media blitz) and won.

Now, once this is said and accepted by all.

The Patriots cheated! did they all cheat? of course not. Was it Bellichick alone doing this? NOOOOO and If you belive that then, as I said, I have a bridge for sale.

The Patriots cheated! and unforutunatley for the loyal fans (like you) and the fair minded players and members of the organisation that had nothing to do with this, this is also a fact even if they had nothing to do with it and wisj it away.

Neither I nor any other fan outside the big dig project area of influence will be able to get that out of our minds! they cheated, even worst the commisioner seem to imply the other day that there migth be more than just taping the signals of defensive coaches.

I did not make this up, none other than the people inside the Patroits organisation did this, so do not shoot the messanger, you do not like the label, maybe you should do more than cheer your cheating coach as he leaves the stadium! (fans of the Pats)

You can not have your cake and eat it too, cheating is cheating, even if it was stopped last week, is still cheating.

Is that an excuse for the Chargers losing, of course not! as I said from the start, if the Chargers will had in fact showed up, but they did not and got a wooping, hopefully this will make them realise that in order to be a contender thay have to be able to beat the contenders.

Still, sorry to repeat it, cheating is cheating and you can not just make it go away over a weekend becaues you say so, specially if there seems to be no admition of guilt, no recognition of the bad cause to the sport, no regreat, no remorse.

The only explanation we got from the coach was that he has a different interpretation of the bylaws as does the rest of the universe! The Patriots organisation is doing nothing about it, was Bellichick santioned? reprimended in any way? has all the other parties responsible on this matter, within the Pats organisation been confronted and punished? Of course not!

So sorry again, but you guys have to do better than that .....


My opinion


CJ

 

[korbel]

Korbie,

You are rigth, the Chargers have no excuse about thet lost, they lost, the Pats won, they did not show up, the Pats did, overcomming a number of handicaps (including the media blitz) and won.

Now, once this is said and accepted by all.

The Patriots cheated! did they all cheat? of course not. Was it Bellichick alone doing this? NOOOOO and If you belive that then, as I said, I have a bridge for sale.

The Patriots cheated! and unforutunatley for the loyal fans (like you) and the fair minded players and members of the organisation that had nothing to do with this, this is also a fact even if they had nothing to do with it and wisj it away.

Neither I nor any other fan outside the big dig project area of influence will be able to get that out of our minds! they cheated, even worst the commisioner seem to imply the other day that there migth be more than just taping the signals of defensive coaches.

I did not make this up, none other than the people inside the Patroits organisation did this, so do not shoot the messanger, you do not like the label, maybe you should do more than cheer your cheating coach as he leaves the stadium! (fans of the Pats)

You can not have your cake and eat it too, cheating is cheating, even if it was stopped last week, is still cheating.

Is that an excuse for the Chargers losing, of course not! as I said from the start, if the Chargers will had in fact showed up, but they did not and got a wooping, hopefully this will make them realise that in order to be a contender thay have to be able to beat the contenders.

Still, sorry to repeat it, cheating is cheating and you can not just make it go away over a weekend becaues you say so, specially if there seems to be no admition of guilt, no recognition of the bad cause to the sport, no regreat, no remorse.

The only explanation we got from the coach was that he has a different interpretation of the bylaws as does the rest of the universe! The Patriots organisation is doing nothing about it, was Bellichick santioned? reprimended in any way? has all the other parties responsible on this matter, within the Pats organisation been confronted and punished? Of course not!

So sorry again, but you guys have to do better than that .....


My opinion


CJ

Hello CJ 652,

You seem to think Patriots fans have gotten by all of the implications of this affair and forgiven all. They haven't. Like fans of Bonds, Giambi, Kobe Bryant and many other questionable or troubled players and stars we had to make a choice and we did. Even with all the possible taint of this episode we have decided not to cast anyone to the wolves, no matter how many of you may wish it. Would you do that if it was your team? NO...I doubt it. I doubt that most Atlanta fans want Vick off the team even despite the criminal nature of his offenses. The applause you heard was not approval of cheating, it was appreciation, a show of our decision to stick by him and anyone else responsible for all they have accomplished in spite of this great embarrassment. The episode feels like a great burden these days. But you will just have to forgive us if we don't burn those responsible.

The NFL has levied the most severe punishment they could as I understand it. Now should the Patriots organization do more to punish ALL of those involved. That would seem to be reasonable to a point. Yet, I get the feeling what those outside Patriots Nation really want is to ban Belichick and others involved from the game. Many want "blood". They aren't going to get it as things stand at the moment. The Patriots organization let the punishment in this matter be in the hands of the NFL and did not attempt to stand in the way of their decision. Well, that's just the way it should be you say, but it wouldn't have been the first time teams have interferred or tried to protect someone. Now the punishment has been set and it's not enough. Maybe that's true. However, if you think any team or it's fans are naturally going to cut their own throats further to please the displeased when due justice has already been rendered by the appropriate authoriative overseers then you are engaged in wishful thinking whether you are right or not. Would your team or any other team do so? The implied answer to that question does not justify anything, but it is the reality of things isn't it.

So you feel the taint of the affair will color the legitimacy of the Patriots accomplishments in the past and in the future. Maybe so. Maybe even rightfully so. But if you expect anyone in Patriots Nation to feel guilty about winning from now on, you had better guess again. We sure won't. If that bothers you in your righteousness too bad. I agree it is something that will linger for a while in our minds and feelings too. But it won't affect the results of any upcoming game and we will never feel bad about winning. So when your team or any team comes to play us don't expect us to roll over and let you give us a beating out of some penance you think we owe the rest of the league. BRING YOUR A-GAME. Because we intend to win and we won't feel any shame about it. Come to play the game...because we will try to KICK YOUR ASS...NO MATTER HOW RIGHTEOUS YOU THINK YOU ARE. And if we win the Super Bowl we will celebrate like hell and not feel sorry about it or your righteousness in the least.

Cheerio brother,

Korbel

 

[eastender]

Belichick Saga

Posters are commenting as if the video taping issue is history. It is not.

The NFL has requested full disclosure. Hopefully this will explain the extent and use or application of the illegal video taping. Should this information put things in a different perspective then further appropriate sanctions will be handed down.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Posters are commenting as if the video taping issue is history. It is not.

The NFL has requested full disclosure. Hopefully this will explain the extent and use or application of the illegal video taping. Should this information put things in a different perspective then further appropriate sanctions will be handed down.

EE is quite right. I saw Goodell's interview with Bob Costas and he said he reserved the right to take further action against Belichik and the Patriots after reviewing the requested documents. Of course Belichik may have a different interpretation of what is meant by turning over these documents. Just like Watergate did not end with the arrests of the burglars Patriots Spygate is not over either. Whether Belichik ends up like his colleague in cheating, Richard Nixon, remains to be seen.

 

[korbel]

Of course.

Posters are commenting as if the video taping issue is history. It is not.

The NFL has requested full disclosure. Hopefully this will explain the extent and use or application of the illegal video taping. Should this information put things in a different perspective then further appropriate sanctions will be handed down.

Hello Eastender,

I know and have acknowledged this. Others may not have.

Regards,

Korbel

 

[korbel]

Tapes Destroyed!

Hello all,

Well, the NFL has made a statement. CASE CLOSED! I am not sure what to say about this. Did the NFL believe there was no credible evidence of any other spying not already brought forth to pursue? Is the NFL attempting to protect the game from further scandal for profits sake? You tell me. One thing for sure though...I can feel the birth of conspiracy theories as sure as the sun still shines. A lot of dissatisfaction with the end of this investigation is likely to purge itself one way or another. Okay, go for it if you will.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1033122

The NFL has received and destroyed all the videotapes, notes and documents it requested and received from Patriots [team stats] coach Bill Belichick in the wake of Camera-gate, and the case appears closed.
According to a league statement released yesterday through NFL spokesman Greg Aiello, the Pats complied with commissioner Roger Goodell’s request and vowed they haven’t kept anything behind.

“The Patriots have fully cooperated and complied with the requirements of the commissioner’s decision,” the statement said. “All tapes, documents and other records relating to this matter were turned over to the league office and destroyed, and the Patriots have certified in writing that no copies or other records exist. League policies on in-game videotaping and audio communication will continue to be closely monitored and strictly enforced with all 32 teams.”

When asked last night if he anticipated any further sanctions against the Patriots, Aiello said, “I don’t expect anything further.”
That was welcome news for the Patriots.

“We’re satisfied this case is closed and our focus remains on the upcoming game (against Buffalo),” said Patriots spokesman Stacey James.

While it’s unclear why the tapes were destroyed, it’s likely the league wanted to make sure they wouldn’t be put to any use again by Belichick, who claims he misinterpreted the rules.

It is believed by many around the league that Belichick had compiled a library of film on defensive coordinators and their signal-calling.
The Pats coach was fined $500,000 by Goodell and the team was fined $250,000 for violating a league rule that prohibits clubs from using a video camera on the sidelines for any purpose - including recording signals relayed to opposing players on the field.

The penalty also includes the loss of the Patriots’ first-round draft pick next year if they make the playoffs, or second- and third-rounders if they don’t.

A video camera aimed at Jets coaches was confiscated from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella during the first quarter of the team’s 38-14 win over New York at the Meadowlands on Sept. 9.

Jets coach Eric Mangini, the former Patriots defensive coordinator, reportedly blew the whistle on Belichick, and called in NFL security when he suspected the Patriots of filming his team’s signals.

Another charge hurled at the Pats involved defensive players using microphones or other recording devices in their shoulder pads to pick up Jets audibles.

“We have no evidence to support that claim,” Aiello wrote in an e-mail last night.

In an interview during Sunday night’s game against San Diego, Pats owner Robert Kraft claimed he had no knowledge of the illegal videotaping and was confident that, even with Goodell asking for more tapes, it would be the end of the episode.

“Well, let me just say, I had no idea this was going on, but I can tell you this - it won’t happen again in the future,” Kraft told NBC.

Suddenly over???

Korbel

 

[EagerBeaver]

Another charge hurled at the Pats involved defensive players using microphones or other recording devices in their shoulder pads to pick up Jets audibles. “We have no evidence to support that claim,” Aiello wrote in an e-mail last night.

Unless the Patriots shoulder pads were confiscated or searched, how would there be any evidence? This is a ridiculous question-begging statement, unless accompanied by the further statement that "the NFL has searched the Patriots equipment room, inspected all shoulder pads and found no recording devices or other evidence to support this claim."