I have no doubt the Leafs are a team to be reckoned with in the future, but you guys need to be patient and let the talent develop. Look back at 1975-1980 to see how long it took the NY islanders dynasty to develop. Trottier, Bossy, Gillies, Potvin, those guys all came up together. They paid their dues for around 5 years before they won 4 Cups in a row. History should be observed here. These guys can be very good but you have to be patient, wait for the talent to develop and stop pushing the envelope. There will be more blown 3rd period leads this year. They may make the playoffs and then get swept 1st round. In fact that is a scenario that could happen but we will need to wait and see.
The Official 2016-17 NHL thread
- Thread starter Doc Holliday
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Doc and I have been very patient and still are, just saying it would NOT surprise me to see the baby buds make the playoffs, kids do not care aka carefree and do not know any better in general thus with leadership of the worlds greatest coach I could see it happening, but do not expect it, just as both of us stated.
The Leafs will likely accept a 2nd-rounder for Bozak, but JVR will command 'at least' a first-rounder if not more. He's currently on a very friendly cap contract which still has a year left to go. He's just entering his prime at age 27 and continues to be an extremely productive player for the Leafs. He'll likely wind up with 30 goals again. The only reason the Leafs would consider parting with him is that he'll likely want a big raise a year or so from now prior to entering unrestricted free agency.
It wouldn't surprise me if they have no intention of giving up for a pick and would rather get a bonafide top 2 defenceman for him. Or else, they'll hang on to him. He's a former #2 overall pick who is very well-liked on the team and hasn't shown glimpses of his production slowing down. Like i said, he's only 27, he's big, he skates well and has great hands. Most teams would die to get their hands on a player like him. The Leafs would rather get something for him now than expose him in the draft and lose him to the Las Vegas franchise for nothing.
As for Bozak, he's relied upon for his leadership and faceoff skills. But he's 30 years old and he'd be attractive for other teams since he also still has a year left to go on his contract. But the Leafs can afford to trade a center and the fact Bozak hasn't spent an entire healthy season in years may be of concern considering he's 30. They'd accept a good prospect or a high #1 or #2 pick for him. If not, they'll hang onto him and make him available for the upcoming Vegas draft.
By the way, the habs just re-signed Al Montoya to a multiyear contract. That decision was made in order to expose him to the upcoming draft. This is why it wouldn't surprise me if the Leafs re-signed Jonas Enroth to an extension simply to do the same thing. I don't think they'd want to expose Freddy Andersen or Antoine Bibeau.
Bozak, JVR, Leipsic or Kapenan and a 2nd for Shattenkirk. Not sure St Louis would do this but I would in a heartbeat. Cam Fowler maybe?
Tell me Mtl would not love that package but they have absolutely nothing the Leafs would want except possible the young Russian dman in the system who this second his name escapes my mind but not for that much!
Tell me Mtl would not love that package but they have absolutely nothing the Leafs would want except possible the young Russian dman in the system who this second his name escapes my mind but not for that much!
I wouldn't even trade JVR alone for Shattenkirk. Shattenkirk will be a UFA after this season. And he's the same age as JVR. Plus he's not even their best defenceman. I much prefer Pietrangelo and Bouwmeester, which would be a better fit for the Leafs.
But word is that JVR would prefer playing in the East Conference and preferably in the NY area (if not in Toronto), where he's from. Knowing this might scare off some western teams from making a deal.
I seriously doubt that Montoya will be anywhere near the best draftable goalie. Vegas will pass on him and let the Habs keep him.
He'd be very attractive to the Vegas team because of the very friendly contract he signed. I doubt the Vegas franchise will want to select a goalie being paid anywhere over $2 million.
Who knows, Vegas might chose Fleury from the Pens and Al from Montreal. Montoya at around oneM$ also protects other players on the Habs roster from the Vegas draft.
It's just the first move the Habs have to do in order to get ready for the "Vegas draft"
It's just the first move the Habs have to do in order to get ready for the "Vegas draft"
If I am the Vegas GM I am not looking for 31 year old proven journeyman players, no matter how cheap they are. I am looking at younger guys with potential. who can probably be had even more cheaply. There will be some good unprotected talent.
Any GM who makes available young talent with good potential is an idiot. The Vegas team will also need to sell tickets, which means it'll have to field a competitive team. Which is why i expect them to have a mix of veterans and younger journeymen-type of players.
They can't chose Marc-Andre Fleury. The Penguins are not allowed to submit his name to the list of players available due to his non-movement clause in his contract. Same thing with Carey Price.
Here's the current list of players whose names won't be submitted in the upcoming expansion draft:
Anaheim (4)
Kevin Bieksa
Ryan Getzlaf
Ryan Kesler
Corey Perry
Arizona (1)
Alex Goligoski
Boston (4)
David Backes
Patrice Bergeron
Zdeno Chara
David Krejci
Buffalo (1)
Kyle Okposo
Carolina (1)
Jordan Staal
Columbus (5)
Sergei Bobrovsky
David Clarkson
Brandon Dubinsky
Nick Foligno
Scott Hartnell
Chicago (8)
Artem Anisimov
Corey Crawford
Niklas Hjalmarsson
Marian Hossa
Patrick Kane
Duncan Keith
Brent Seabrook
Jonathan Toews
Colorado (2)
Francois Beauchemin
Erik Johnson
Dallas (2)
Jamie Benn
Jason Spezza
Detroit (1)
Frans Nielsen
Edmonton (3)
Milan Lucic
Andrej Sekera
Cam Talbot
Florida (1)
Keith Yandle
Los Angeles (1)
Anze Kopitar
Minnesota (4)
Mikko Koivu
Zach Parise
Jason Pominville
Ryan Suter
Montreal (2)
Jeff Petry
Carey Price
Nashville (1)
Pekka Rinne
New Jersey (1)
Ryane Clowe
N.Y. Islanders (3)
Johnny Boychuk
Andrew Ladd
John Tavares
N.Y. Rangers (4)
Dan Girardi
Henrik Lundqvist
Rick Nash
Marc Staal
Ottawa (1)
Dion Phaneuf
Philadelphia (1)
Claude Giroux
Pittsburgh (5)
Sidney Crosby
Marc-Andre Fleury
Phil Kessel
Kris Letang
Evgeni Malkin
Tampa Bay (4)
Ryan Callahan
Valtteri Filppula
Victor Hedman
Steven Stamkos
Toronto (1)
Nathan Horton
Vancouver (3)
Loui Eriksson
Daniel Sedin
Henrik Sedin
Winnipeg (2)
Dustin Byfuglien
Toby Enstrom
Anaheim (4)
Kevin Bieksa
Ryan Getzlaf
Ryan Kesler
Corey Perry
Arizona (1)
Alex Goligoski
Boston (4)
David Backes
Patrice Bergeron
Zdeno Chara
David Krejci
Buffalo (1)
Kyle Okposo
Carolina (1)
Jordan Staal
Columbus (5)
Sergei Bobrovsky
David Clarkson
Brandon Dubinsky
Nick Foligno
Scott Hartnell
Chicago (8)
Artem Anisimov
Corey Crawford
Niklas Hjalmarsson
Marian Hossa
Patrick Kane
Duncan Keith
Brent Seabrook
Jonathan Toews
Colorado (2)
Francois Beauchemin
Erik Johnson
Dallas (2)
Jamie Benn
Jason Spezza
Detroit (1)
Frans Nielsen
Edmonton (3)
Milan Lucic
Andrej Sekera
Cam Talbot
Florida (1)
Keith Yandle
Los Angeles (1)
Anze Kopitar
Minnesota (4)
Mikko Koivu
Zach Parise
Jason Pominville
Ryan Suter
Montreal (2)
Jeff Petry
Carey Price
Nashville (1)
Pekka Rinne
New Jersey (1)
Ryane Clowe
N.Y. Islanders (3)
Johnny Boychuk
Andrew Ladd
John Tavares
N.Y. Rangers (4)
Dan Girardi
Henrik Lundqvist
Rick Nash
Marc Staal
Ottawa (1)
Dion Phaneuf
Philadelphia (1)
Claude Giroux
Pittsburgh (5)
Sidney Crosby
Marc-Andre Fleury
Phil Kessel
Kris Letang
Evgeni Malkin
Tampa Bay (4)
Ryan Callahan
Valtteri Filppula
Victor Hedman
Steven Stamkos
Toronto (1)
Nathan Horton
Vancouver (3)
Loui Eriksson
Daniel Sedin
Henrik Sedin
Winnipeg (2)
Dustin Byfuglien
Toby Enstrom
Yeah but Doc do fans really want to see guys who are older has beens? They want to see young players who can be grown. I realize that there will not be a ton of great talent exposed but growable is better than a older cheaper has been.
True but this also could be the case for all 30 other franchises. Toronto has finally got it right and has strictly followed its rebuilding plan over the past 1 1/2. The large majority of the team are young players and their stars are those same young 18-21 year old players who they expect will be with the team for years to come. They had 9 rookies in their lineup against Detroit in the Centennial game and have had 7-8 rookies in their lineup throughout the season. For decades Leafs management didn't believe that their fans would put up with such a rebuild. They didn't believe their fans would be patient enough. Well, over the past two seasons they've been proven wrong and the fans are indeed willing to be patient in order to see the rebuild be made like it should be and now their patience is paying huge dividends. They're already contending for the playoffs and i dare anyone find a more exciting team to watch. The Leafs' future looks extremely bright, something that hasn't been said since the days of Roger Nielsen coaching the Leafs in the mid to late 70's when they were led by the likes of Darryl Sittler, Lanny McDonald, Ian Turnbull and Mike Palmateer. And then Harold Ballard blew all that promise up by hiring the ancient George "Punch" Imlach and the entire organization became a laughing stock for the following 15 years until Ballard finally croaked and Steve Stavro stepped in and hired Ken Dryden & Cliff Fletcher to run the team.
The Las Vegas GM knows, or reasonably should know, that his team is going to suck for at least a few years, and it's in his interest for them to suck elephant balls, big time, if he expects to get draft picks that are high quality players like what the Leafs got. This requires a consistent high level of suckitude for 3-4 years. Therefore expansion draft some very raw young talent, let them suck, get 4 years worth of very high picks and then in about 2023 or so the team can be what the Leafs and Oilers are now. He has to sell the fans on exactly what you said in the last post- no pain no gain. But the pain is better endured with younger players who will get better than older has beens who will get worse- and break down. That's the way to do it. Pain endurance and patience. And selling the fans on it. The Vegas fans have plenty of distractions and they will not stew over suck-ass hockey when they step out of the arena, it's 90 degrees and the strip club down the road beckons. There is no time for the fans to get upset.
The question is, who exactly will these so-called 'fans' be??? Are there any true hockey fans who live in Las Vegas?? My guess is that most of the people attending the games won't be Las Vegas hockey fans at all, but mostly thousands of visitors to Las Vegas who will be both high-rollers and hockey fans from the visiting teams. I doubt they'll want to see a crappy product on the ice. They'll either stay home or stay at the casinos instead of going out to watch a crappy hockey game featuring a crappy young team against an experienced group of highly-skilled players.
The key is for the team to be competitive in order to maintain interest. For one, i'd love to attend a Leafs game in Vegas one of these days in the near future. However, i won't have much of an interest if the team only wins 10 games a year and gets blown away on most nights when the outcome of the game is pretty much determined in advance.
The plan you're suggesting is a good plan for an established market. But it won't work in a new market or one that is already struggling (e.g. Carolina, Florida) to maintain a fan base. If the long-term rebuilding plan is adopted in a new market (which is 100% not a hockey market) such as Las Vegas, fans from all across North America will attend during the first year or two, but the arena will be empty by the time the team is competitive.
That's why the Florida Panthers was successful in the early years and even went to the Stanley Cup final very early in its inception. Good, quality veteran players had been made available to them (and Tampa Bay) and Florida stacked the team with those types of players which led them all the way to the Stanley Cup finals, led by coach Doug McLean. Remember the rats that fans started throwing onto the ice after the Panthers would score a goal?? It was a total frenzy!!!
Sure, it's now a struggling market and the local fans are staying way. But i'd say that the main reason for this is that Florida simply is not and will never be an ice hockey market. The arena is also quite a distance from the downtown area. It's actually closer to Fort Lauderdale (the arena is located in Sunrise) than it is to Miami. I was there last year at springtime (the habs were in town also) and i couldn't see myself driving all the way there just to watch a hockey game. The drive there didn't bother me as much as the drive back after the game. Were i ever to attend a game there, i'd probably book a stay at a nearby hotel and take a cab there.
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