The Official 2017-18 NHL thread

[Titilleur]

Good thought, but if I was the cocky kid GM of Toronto, I would ask for Pacioretty and a 2nd round draft pick for Marner.

You can't deal you top scorer AND a 2nd choice when you are rebuilding...

I would deal Paciorety for at least 2 or 3 upper choices.

Marner is another player like Drouin... Great playmakers. But they need someone to get the puck to. Actually, in MTL, if you trade Paciorety, there will be none left...

 

[EagerBeaver]

Titty,

You can’t expect to get something for nothing. If Montreal wants Marner, it’s going to take Pacioretty and a pick. What other value can possibly interest the kid GM of the Leafs? Montreal has no other tradeable assets. You don’t worry about who will score goals. You think this team is going to the playoffs? When you accept full rebuild mode, you stockpile and hoard young talent and worry about fitting it all together later on down the road.

Never mind who will score. It doesn’t matter!

 

[tiga]

Bergevin says he is not, and I insist he is NOT in rebuild mode.
Right now he is trying both things, stocking picks and he says Habs will make the playoffs.
Would not be suprised if Ryan O'Reilly goes to Mtl tomorrow.

Paul Stasny Is now a Vegas Knight.

 

[Titilleur]

Well... Put two or three actual skaters with Paciorety... Keep your draft choices for your own uses.

 

[tiga]

Dont worry Toronto is not trading with Mtl...i was just talking crazy.

Starting to feel sorry for Boston, no Kovalchuk, no Tavares and Nash is thinking retirement...

 

[tiga]

Oups... Ryan O'Reilly échangé aux Blues...

Bergevin doit regarder dans la KHL j'imagine...; (

 

[tiga]

I beleive Nylander may move for a defenseman...

 

[Doc Holliday]

Good thought, but if I was the cocky kid GM of Toronto, I would ask for Pacioretty and a 2nd round draft pick for Marner.

It would take a whole lot more than just Max Pacioretty to get Toronto to trade Mitch Marner.

Pacioretty will be an unrestricted free agent next season is a major reason why teams are afraid to trade for him. It also seems he's over-evaluating himself at the present time and expects to be paid considerably more than what teams are currently willing to give him.

Mitch Marner is still under Maple Leafs control for another few years and will likely sign some type of 'bridge' contract next season. But he's already twice the player Max Pacioretty is.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Marner is another player like Drouin... Great playmakers. But they need someone to get the puck to. Actually, in MTL, if you trade Paciorety, there will be none left...

I'd take Drouin ahead of Pacioretty for Mitch Marner. But i would want more than just Drouin. Drouin hasn't proven anything yet to show he's worth the contract Mtl gave him last season. I also have questions about his attitude. Not sure you'd want to insert a player with a questionable attitude and a questionable work ethic onto a team like Toronto in return for a player like Mitch Marner who's a dream to coach, never says a word and always puts in 100% of an effort game after game. In Drouin's case there were just too many games last season where he simply had mailed it in.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Titty,

You can’t expect to get something for nothing. If Montreal wants Marner, it’s going to take Pacioretty and a pick. What other value can possibly interest the kid GM of the Leafs? Montreal has no other tradeable assets. You don’t worry about who will score goals. You think this team is going to the playoffs? When you accept full rebuild mode, you stockpile and hoard young talent and worry about fitting it all together later on down the road.

William Nylander will end up being traded by Toronto before Mitch Marner. Nylander is also a natural centre so he'd be a very interesting commodity for many teams to have. But Montreal doesn't really have anything that Toronto would want. Sure i wouldn't mind having Shea Weber's big shot from the point if i'm the Leafs GM. But Weber's contract is currently too high in order to fit under the Leafs cap and nobody wants his contract which only expires in 8 years.

Actually the habs should beg teams to take Weber's contract off their hands. Even if they don't get anything for him. Similar to what the Leafs did with Phil Kessell. They practically gave him away to the Penguins in order to get rid of his contract. Same with what they did with Dion Phaneuf. But the habs won't do this since it'll mean that they literally gave PK Subban away.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I beleive Nylander may move for a defenseman...

He may be moved next season. I expect him to remain with the team this season. I agree that if a team with a top 2 defenceman comes along the Leafs would certainly consider the trade. But there aren't many (or any) top 2 defencemen available right now and those defencemen for the most part make a lot of money. The Leafs don't currently have the luxury of taking in a big contract which is the only reason why they'd consider moving on of their top young players.

The Leafs defence isn't perfect but it's adequate. The Penguins literally won the Cup with an almost no-name defence a couple of seasons ago. Other than John Carlson most people would have trouble naming two Washington Capitals defencemen. Same thing with the Las Vegas Knights.

The Leafs currently have Morgan Rieilly, Jake Gardiner, Travis Dermott, Nikita Zaitsev, Ron Hainsey & Connor Carrick. They also have extremely promising defencemen in the system such as Timothy Liljegren, Calle Rosen, Andreas Borgman and Andrew Nielsen. Borgman actually spent the first part of the season with the Leafs before being replaced by Dermott. And they re-signed Martin Marincin, who spent two years with the big team in the past.

So although i'd love to see a top 2 defenceman being acquired with the Leafs, it's not likely to happen. However i'm satisfied with their current defence, especially with more experience under their belt.

 

[tiga]

Nylander's contract is up right now, am I wrong?

 

[tiga]

Nobody loves Paches..
Seems Pacioretty can't catch a break... The guy survives a near death experience to Zedeno C, comes back, is under payed, if you exclude last year, has some decent numbers, says all the right things, is an ok captain in a very tough market, is a descent human being, when you know not all sports stars are, a family man and an alright nice guy, but he still does not get the respect

 

[Doc Holliday]

tiga

I agree. And the worse thing that could happen to him was to have been named captain of that team. It was way too early. I doubt he wanted it but to be honest how would have it looked had he rejected it? PK wanted it so they should have given it to him. But PK had many detractors around team (incl. in management) so they went with the well-respected, quiet guy instead. It may have ruined his career!

The Leafs made the same mistake with Dion Phaneuf. The minute they acquired him from the Flames Brian Burke immediately anointed him as the team captain. EVEN THOUGH HE HAD YET TO PLAY A SINGLE GAME FOR THE LEAFS!!! What a mistake that was!!! He was still a fairly young player but he wasn't 'captain' material. Few players knew him and as time went on he also had his detractors. What the captaincy did for him was to impose a large target on him and the pressure must have been unbearable at times. Same thing with Pacioretty.

The Leafs GM (Kyle Dubas) said the right thing yesterday when asked if the captaincy was part of the discussion in the Tavares negotiations. Both Tavares and Dubas said it was never brought up. Dubas added that the organization would continue to take its time in naming a captain and would not rush into the process. It would wait for the players to gel together and when the right time came to name a captain they would. But added they wouldn't rush into the process. Well done!

 

[Doc Holliday]

Nylander's contract is up right now, am I wrong?

You are correct. What i'm hearing is that they may try to re-sign him to a multi-year contract. I'm hearing up to 6 years in the $6 million range. But this doesn't mean they'd look at moving him this season. Auston Matthews & Mitch Marner will be up next season and that's when the Leafs could move Nylander's or some other contract.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Titty,

Clearly Taveras will center the first line. Based on NHL seniority, and pay grade. You don't pay someone $11 million a year to center a second line.

Auston Matthews will possibly make $12 million/season next year. And most experts consider him to slightly be better than Tavares right now.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Leafs don't officially have a first or second line. On paper both lines will look fairly even and both will have the same roles. I will not be surprised if the top two lines are regularly flip-flopped game after game. It also wouldn't surprise me entirely if there are many games where the Leafs don't play with a fourth line.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Now... Who's gonna play at the wings?

You got one line centered by Tavares, another one by Matthews (I can't see who #1 and #2) and the third line centered by Marner or Nylander...

On the wings, you got Brown, Kapanen and Martin...

All the others are also centers... Kadri, Hyman, Komarov, Marleau, Moore...

Matthews & Tavares between the likes of Marleau, Marner, Nylander, Brown or Hyman. Kadri between Kapanen, Johnsson, Levo or a current Marlies player (Jeremy Bracco, Dmytro Timashov or Carl Grundstrom). And the fourth line would be whomever players are left off the third line plus Matt Martin if he's still with the team. But he may be bought out and if not he'll spend a lot of time in the press box.

By the way i just found out that Tavares was also offered more money by the San Jose Sharks. But my gut-feeling tells me that had he not signed with the Leafs he would have re-signed with the Islanders, the only team he's ever played for.

 

[tiga]

tiga

I agree. And the worse thing that could happen to him was to have been named captain of that team. It was way too early. I doubt he wanted it but to be honest how would have it looked had he rejected it? PK wanted it so they should have given it to him. But PK had many detractors around team (incl. in management) so they went with the well-respected, quiet guy instead. It may have ruined his career!

The Leafs made the same mistake with Dion Phaneuf. The minute they acquired him from the Flames Brian Burke immediately anointed him as the team captain. EVEN THOUGH HE HAD YET TO PLAY A SINGLE GAME FOR THE LEAFS!!! What a mistake that was!!! He was still a fairly young player but he wasn't 'captain' material. Few players knew him and as time went on he also had his detractors. What the captaincy did for him was to impose a large target on him and the pressure must have been unbearable at times. Same thing with Pacioretty.

The Leafs GM (Kyle Dubas) said the right thing yesterday when asked if the captaincy was part of the discussion in the Tavares negotiations. Both Tavares and Dubas said it was never brought up. Dubas added that the organization would continue to take its time in naming a captain and would not rush into the process. It would wait for the players to gel together and when the right time came to name a captain they would. But added they wouldn't rush into the process. Well done!

I agree about Dion Phaneuf, he was not seated in the right spot in Toronto, the Leafs and Tavares should wait and see how he meshes with the team, he already has some pressure to deal with.

The Habs did wait for a while after team Captain Brian Gionta left, for at least a whole year, Markov, Pleky, Subban and Pacioretti all had A on the jersey.

Don't know to what degree it affected Paches, he had good seasons, 30+ goal seasons with the C. I think what changed the way he plays was the major head and vertebrae trauma he sustained before that, in fact I wasn't sure he would ever come back from such a violent collision. He never had the same game, he became more fearful of physical play.

found this link interesting:
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/...rc-max-pacioretty-capitaine-canadien-montreal

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/...view-what-drives-great-sports-teams-1.3101678

... this is exactly the sort of debate and counter-argument that The Captain Class is designed to provoke. And if it prompts coaches at all grades not to pick the star, self-appointed or otherwise, as automatic captain then it will also serve a valuable social purpose.

 

[tiga]

By the way i just found out that Tavares was also offered more money by the San Jose Sharks. But my gut-feeling tells me that had he not signed with the Leafs he would have re-signed with the Islanders, the only team he's ever played for.

found this

Selon ce que rapporte le journaliste David Pagnotta de The Fourth Period ainsi que quelques autres sources, les Islanders, qui avaient une offre identique à celle des Maple Leafs, ont décidé de renchérir en bonifiant leur offre à 11.25 millions de dollars par année pour tenter de le convaincre de rester mais ce ne fût pas suffisant.

Toujours selon Pagnotta, les Sharks de San Jose ont pratiquement offert un chèque en blanc à Tavares en lui faisant une offre mirobolante de 13 millions de dollars par année pendant 7 ans, soit un total de 91 millions de dollars.

C'est donc dire que pour jouer avec les Maple Leafs et revenir au Canada, Tavares a décidé de laisser pas moins de 14 millions de dollars sur la table. Une véritable fortune!

On dit même que les Sharks étaient prêts à bonifier cette offre s'il le fallait mais au final c'est le coeur de l'attaquant vedette qui aura parlé.

 

[Titilleur]

I agree about Dion Phaneuf, he was not seated in the right spot in Toronto, the Leafs and Tavares should wait and see how he meshes with the team, he already has some pressure to deal with.

The Habs did wait for a while, for at least a whole year, Markov, Pleky, Subban and Pacioretti all had A on the jersey.

Don't know to what degree it affected Paches, he had good seasons, 30-39 goal seasons with the C. I think what changed the way he plays was the major head and vertebrae trauma he sustained before that, in fact I wasn't sure he would ever come back from such a violent collision. He never had the same game, he became more fearful of physical play.

Ça l'a probablement rendu plus craintif ou plus prudent... Mais ça l'a aussi très sûrement orienté vers une voie qu'il n'aurait pas emprunté avant cette collision.

S'il n'avait pas eu cette collision, il aurait probablement voulu jouer plus "tough" et ça lui aurait nui... Il aurait été plus téméraire, plus audacieux. Il aurait passé plus de temps sur le banc des pénalités. D'ailleurs, l'année AVANT la collision a été son année où il a eu le plus de minutes de pénalités...

Je ne dis pas que cette collision lui a été bénéfique au point de la justifier... Toutefois, si un changement s'est produit chez le joueur, ce changement a été positif car durant les 4 saisons suivantes, seuls 3 ou 4 joueurs ont marqué plus de buts que Pacioretty durant la même période de temps.

Pacioretty restera un joueur solide, difficile à contenir. Il est fort physiquement. Il a compris comment marquer des buts. Il n'a pas besoin d'aller chercher la rondelle lui-même... Avec Desharnais ou Radulov, il a été très bien alimenté. Il a besoin qu'on lui refile la rondelle... Le reste, c'est à lui de produire...