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The Trump Crime Family

jalimon

I am addicted member
Dec 28, 2015
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the wall is just a political stunt. it will never be built and it does not matter. its an image to make people realize the US does not want anymore illegal mexican immigrant (like the cleaning lady working in one of Trumpet’s home).

cheers,
 

cloudsurf

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2003
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First off.

@cloudsurf - where are you getting this stuff about presidents and IQ tests and such? I wouldn't be that shocked if a bunch of Presidents have done IQ tests and done well, but it seems like you are citing some specific thing about it and I just have never heard of IQ being a big thing for Presidents to talk about historically. (genuinely curious)

If you google Presidential IQ then you`ll find quite a few studies some ranked from highest to lowest others from lowest to highest.
Unfortunately there are some variances between studies so its far from scientific . But apart from the variance in scores the rankings are fairly consistent. Some studies don`t include Trump because they were compiled before 2016. I chose the latest study that was featured in an MSN article last week. Yes I know there is a lot of fake news on msn....so take it with a grain of salt.
 

rumpleforeskiin

It's a whole new ballgame
Jan 20, 2007
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Where I belong.
Gotta hand it to Michael Moore. He was one of a handful of people who predicted Trump's election. He's also predicted that Trump would die in prison.

Well, he's now got two felonies to his name and the charges are just beginning to come in. Expect indictments as soon as he's out of office, either in January 2021 or earlier, if he flees to Moscow.
 

jalimon

I am addicted member
Dec 28, 2015
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Rumple do not underestimate the power of the republicans. Remember the opposition to Trump in the course to leadership. Second was Ted Cruz. As much as I think Trump is a complete disgrace and a complete joke to the rest of the world I honestly think Cruz would have been much worse!

Cheers,
 

sambuca

Active Member
Sep 9, 2015
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Trump's Russian ties go way back..
https://www.pressreader.com/canada/ottawa-sun/20181209/281715500698392

What did they do, plant Hillary as his opponent... Bahahahahaha

That is the problem STN. We have these bizarre, open relations with regimes hostile to us (Russia, China, etc.). It's not illegal to talk and do business with the Russians. Both Trump and the Clintons have had relations with Russia. We knew that three years ago.

Sometimes I think the Special Counsel is just putting out innuendo to damage Trump by loading up court documents with references to Russia with no identifiable wrongdoing. If this is indeed a RICO-style prosecution as Valcazar has suggested, you would think the Special Counsel would have to put a very specific dagger into Trump and/or his family. Otherwise, we have a lot of aspersions coming from a Special Counsel dominated by Clinton acolytes.

By the way, Cohen isn't exactly a reliable witness. If he cooperated and gave so much valuable intel on the Trump campaign, why are they asking for such an extreme sentence. That would suggest that the Special Counsel is even underwhelmed with Cohen's statements and his reliability as a witness.
 

sambuca

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Sep 9, 2015
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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/me...vidence-against-trump-yet-impeachment-n945726

Sen. Angus King: Not enough evidence against Trump yet for impeachment

Senator Angus King caucuses with the Democrats. There's a reason Senators are more cautious in their rhetoric. Many House members on both sides represent districts that are ideologically pure. The last thing a Democratic House member wants is someone running on their Left in a primary so their rhetoric has to be loud and uncompromising.
 

Valcazar

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2013
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@cloudsurf - Thanks. I found it. Seems to be a historical estimation study done by Simonton (it seems he has done this more than once). I have no way of credibly assessing his method, but the fact that none of the presidents involved (even the modern ones) seems to have actually taken an IQ test makes me take this with a huge grain of salt.

@sambuca
"Even if that was true, Nancy Pelosi preached today that the wall is immoral."

Well, that's what happens with power shifts. He played hardball thinking he had the upper hand, and now he doesn't have leverage and they are playing hardball back. The Democrats aren't even going to entertain pretending the money is for the wall anymore. They are still talking $1.6 billion for border security and such, because border security is important. They just won't even give him the fig-leaf of saying it is for "The Wall".

"Tell that to all these countries"

What do barriers in other countries have to do with jailmon's statement? He said Trump's wall is a political stunt. That other people have built barriers (not always walls) doesn't really have anything to do with that.

"And what would those felonies be?"
Campaign Finance violations. The two Cohen pled to, in which he says (and the SDNY agrees) those crimes were done "in coordination with and at the direction of Individual-1" (Trump). You may think campaign finance crimes are bullshit crimes if you want, but they are felonies and Trump is now named as participating in them.

No, he has not been indicted or found guilty. Feel free to hang your hat on that.

"It's not illegal to talk and do business with the Russians."

You are 100% correct. Which is why if they hadn't lied about it constantly, no one would suspect them of anything. "Talking to Russians" isn't a problem. "Quid pro quo" would be.

I do have to withdraw the RICO analogy. Someone who understands racketeering law far better than I do has explained how it is a bad analogy to what's going on. (The standards for RICO are very odd and very specific, so it isn't helpful.) Conspiracy is still a valid term, but RICO isn't. Mea culpa. But the core idea of rolling up lower level people so that the evidence for the higher level ones is all accounted for still seems to explain the strategy. The fact that Mueller hasn't put a dagger in Trump doesn't mean he doesn't have a dagger. I honestly don't know if he does. (Anyone who says they know a lot about what is going on in the Mueller probe is lying to you.) The Russians could well have interfered all over the place without Trump or his campaign doing anything specifically illegal. That's still worth knowing. (I mean, Mueller has already indicted Russians for things they have done.)

"Cohen isn't exactly a reliable witness. If he cooperated and gave so much valuable intel on the Trump campaign, why are they asking for such an extreme sentence. That would suggest that the Special Counsel is even underwhelmed with Cohen's statements and his reliability as a witness."

Mueller didn't ask for an extreme sentence. Just the opposite. He said that due to the cooperation Cohen gave about Trump, the crimes he confessed to for Mueller (the lying in Congress part) should not result in any additional jail time for his other crimes. It is the SDNY that asked for significant jailtime. (Which means probably 3 years, maybe 4, I expect.) They said while he may have cooperated with Mueller about Trump, he didn't cooperate well with them about his own crimes.

But of course, none of this is based on "Cohen says". As is pointed out repeatedly in the filing, these are things Cohen says in his guilty plea that the government says is supported by other evidence which they will show to the judge as needed. You don't take proven liars like Cohen and Manafort at their word.
 

minutemenX

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Jun 8, 2015
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Quick question impeachment in 2019 or not?

Mueller’s office has been created with a very specific goal: to find if there was collusion between the Russian government and the Tramp election campaign. Granted, they uncovered a lot of dirt on Trump (with such stuff and power anybody will be able to do this on 90% of people in power) but they did not find any serious proof of “collusion”. This will be the reason that Trump will lay to shut it soon. They will argue that the prosecution for other “crimes” can be done through regular channels. Without the power of a special counsel the “other crime” charges will naturally die out.
 

Sol Tee Nutz

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Apr 29, 2012
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Look behind you.
Trump will never be impeached. Have been hearing the impeachment s8nce he won the election.
 

sambuca

Active Member
Sep 9, 2015
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Quick question impeachment in 2019 or not?

Jalimon, you seem like a nice, thoughtful guy, but do you know what impeachment means? Bill Clinton was impeached by a group just one notch above the rabid mob. That's what we call the House of Representatives. Substantively, the precedence now is that impeachment alone is an extrajudicial political maneuver.
 

jalimon

I am addicted member
Dec 28, 2015
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but do you know what impeachment means?

Not really no. I do not know any of the procedure of impeachment or what could lead to it. I am especially curious what else do we need to learn from him to him leaving office.

What I still don't understand is how in hell did he end up being elected. You guys down in the US need a 3rd political party. What you have is a fake democracy. I hope you do realize that. And I say that without any bad or wrong intents.

Cheers,
 

sambuca

Active Member
Sep 9, 2015
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Son, we live in a world that has evil, and that evil has to be checked by people with resolution. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Jalimon? We have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for the Left, and you curse the Conservatives. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Trump's election, while unexpected, probably saved America; and his existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saved the free world from further chaotic globalization.
 

cloudsurf

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May 10, 2003
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What is wrong with globalization ?
We were multiple tribes but one nation when our ancestors left Africa 80,000 years ago.
Since then because of religion, nationalism,isolationism and dictatorial mad men....we`ve become 170 nations and still dividing and fighting over territory and ideology.

I f an alien advanced race from another solar system would attack us and threaten humankind`s existence …..we`d unite very quickly.
So why can`t we do it for humankinds betterment when there is no outside threat.
 

Sol Tee Nutz

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2012
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Look behind you.
^^^^^ Not sure how you are using globalization. If you mean one earth one country I am dead against it. The pact Canada is signing today or tomorrow ( the the migration for all ) will make sure Trudeau will never get in power again, a vast majority are against it
 

jalimon

I am addicted member
Dec 28, 2015
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Son, we live in a world that has evil, and that evil has to be checked by people with resolution. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Jalimon? We have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for the Left, and you curse the Conservatives. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Trump's election, while unexpected, probably saved America; and his existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saved the free world from further chaotic globalization.

Interesting you see I voted Conservatives here in canada 3 times. And recently voted here in Quebec for the brand new party that I find equivalent to any conservatives party. I do think you would not be in such political shit if your political system could have other party. It would stop the constant division between only 2 and bring other options for people to vote. Because you know people like me can be all for strong economic actions while having some liberal values like free healthcare and free education, which I consider the strict minimum to nation.

As much as I hate Trump (it's beyond me I cannot dig people who are bully and openly lie all the time) will bring a bit of good things. Sometimes you need a real disturber to make big tough changes.

By the way globalization is exactly like climate changes. No matter if you believe it or not, it's a reality. It's happening and it's unstoppable.

Cheers,
 

sambuca

Active Member
Sep 9, 2015
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What is wrong with globalization?

First, I was spoofing a famous movie quote.

Second, globalization is fine as an ideal. On a practical level however, Democracy takes precedence over globalization. Democracy requires common values and to a great degree a common culture. I and others also believe this requires sovereignty and borders. Democracy only works if there is buy-in from the sovereign population. Contrary to the beliefs of Jalimon and some others here, it doesn't require that democracies always make the right decision and elect the best people. Although that would be nice, who decides what's the right decision? Elites in Washington, New York, Ottawa, Toronto and Brussels? The dynamism of democracies are built on their flexibility and adaptation. Globalization many times is often inflexible, bureaucratic and not democratic in nature.

Lastly, your example of the alien race attacking us and uniting us is romantic idealization. You know damn well the Chinese or some other country would work with the aliens to subjugate, administer and collect tribute for the aliens' new colony Earth.
 
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