The ugly UGLY side of this business!

[The Wizard of Oz]

Cher Bryson ...

Emportée par la curiosité de ce que tu a nommé le mauvais côté de la médaille de cette entreprise, le récit de cette mésanventure m'a grandemement touché ...

Le courage dont tu a dû faire preuve est d'un grand mérite et davantage d'en avoir informé l'agence en sachant profondément en toi que peut-être peu de chose en découlerais ...

J'ose espérer que cette agence saura apporter aide et soutient a cette désolante âme et que la vie te reviendra avec des réponses positives en regard de l'acte courageux appliqué a cet instant précis, un moment que ton coeur a su diriger en dépit qu'il fût assurément brisé ...

 

[General Gonad]

Even though I'm very gentle and would never attempt to force an escort to do something she is uncomfortable with, I can't help but realize that most of these girls are barely in their 20s and are being asked to provide very intimate services. Frequently they are seeing men that they are indifferent to, and sometimes they meet men they downright loathe. They have to have sex with these men, regardless of how they feel about them. Alot of posters seem to think nothing of leaving negative reviews, without a thought of how it can damage the girls feelings, to say nothing of what the job can do a girl emotionally. Sometimes it seems in our need for thrills we treat them (myself included) like a piece of meat to be used up and then discarded.

btyger,

I couldn't have put it better myself. Bryson, this isn't the "ugly" side of the biz, it is the "sad" side of the biz. Like Dorothy, I commend what you did. It took a lot of courage to walk in that door without knowing what was waiting for you. I honestly doubt that I would have walked in like that.

Now, you have a choice. You can tell the agency and hopefully they will help her or you can try seeing her again and offer her help. Most agencies would fire a drug addict on the spot - they are heartless. If you, however, decide to commit yourself and help this young lady, then COMMIT yourself. It isn't going to be easy and I am not saying that you have to do this but I can guarantee you one thing, if you do decide to help her, it will be the most rewarding thing you'll get out of this hobby and maybe even life.

Some young SPs unfortunately succumb to the pressures of hobbying and use drugs in order to help them 'deal' with some ugly realities. Instead of helping them cope, however, drug addiction exarcebates the underlying problem, bringing them deeper into despair.

This young lady is obviously in trouble and needs immediate help. I wish I could embrace all these troubled souls and truly help them. I hate hearing about these sad stories. But it's even worse if we ignore sad realities like this and pretend that 'all is well and merry' in "Hobbyland." That is utter bullshit!

Thanks for sharing this story.

GG

 

[Nugie]

btyger -

I'd be pretty angry is I was looking forward to a nice visit and it didn't play through. Just angry in general, but in Bryson's situation, I can understand why some of that pent-up frustration is directed at the SP.

As far as what other people would or would not do? What happens if the girl OD's, and your prints are all over the room, and you're the last one that saw her alive? Sometimes, you just HAVE to cover your ass.

 

[General Gonad]

As far as what other people would or would not do? What happens if the girl OD's, and your prints are all over the room, and you're the last one that saw her alive? Sometimes, you just HAVE to cover your ass.

Nugie,

Are you serious with this "cover your ass" crap? If I saw her OD, I would call the ambulance right away and tell the cops everything. What would you do? Leave her there to die? Come on, get real.

GG

 

[pookiebear]

I do have to add that it was brave on your part to enter the place. God forbide there might be some confrontation etc... that being said we all take a calculated risk ,the sp and all of us hobbyist ,every time we have an encounter. That is why most sp and hobbyist stick to a hand full of people in a small circle. Many sp do this for various reasons it may be for the sex, meeting people, and of course the money factor. This underground world is not for everyone and much like anything else some people may need chemical or substance drugs to keep the day going. It is what it is but may I add that at the end of the day regardless of who we are, what race, sex, political or religious believe, we are all human being. A life no matter how one sees it , is precious and in the end we owed it to each other to help each other out. If I was in his situation I would have call an ambulance or drive her to the hospital myself. Even if there are consequences of doing so. What ever the outcome is it worth the risk to save a person's life. I will handle ithe outcome at a later time. This girl's life means more to me then getting in trouble with the law ,friends and or family. We all only have one life and I'm a true believer in living that life the happiest you can.

 

[Nugie]

Nugie,

Are you serious with this "cover your ass" crap? If I saw her OD, I would call the ambulance right away and tell the cops everything. What would you do? Leave her there to die? Come on, get real.

GG

GG,

That's EXACTLY what I meant by cover your ass. If you leave and do nothing, and she dies, you are totally screwed. Even though it will be troublesome to talk to the police, describe exactly how and why you found her in this condition, even though it might mean making admissions which MAY make you guilty of a crime, you have to do it because the alternative is far, far worse.

What did you THINK I meant? Especially since I made it a point that your prints would be everywhere and you're the last one to see her alive, you are going to be #1 on the suspect list unless you go straight to the authorities.

 

[General Gonad]

GG,
What did you THINK I meant? Especially since I made it a point that your prints would be everywhere and you're the last one to see her alive, you are going to be #1 on the suspect list unless you go straight to the authorities.

My apologies, I thought you meant to scram.

 

[Nugie]

GG,

No problem. It's not like I'm a nice guy - I'm advocating sticking around for self-preservation, as opposed to selflessness.

"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." - Ayn Rand

 

[Doc Holliday]

I heard about this incident a few months ago. Not a very pleasant experience, i'm sure! A few years ago, there was also a similar occurrence with one of the most popular agencies at the time (no longer in business). A well-reviewed young lady was due to be seen by a former member of my old site. When she arrived in his room, he noticed that she acted a bit strange. She excused herself and went to the bathroom. After about 5 minutes or so, she still hadn't come out of the bathroom, so he went over and knocked on the door. She wasn't answering. He knocked again, same result. So, he broke the door down and found her passed out on the floor and unresponsive. The evidence at the scene indicated that she had probably OD'd. He wasn't sure what to do. If he called the medics, the cops would very likely be at the scene also and be asking questions. He didn't want to be put into this position, plus the fact that he was a local and was married. So, he called the agency and told them story, asking them what he should do next. They told him to stay with the girl and they'd send someone to go and help out. It wasn't the first time that they had problems with this girl. Minutes later, two or three people showed up and they helped carry her out. The client felt quite helpless and pretty strange, of course. A few days later, he called the agency again and the lady in question was once again back on the job. She did work for several other agencies after this and was in and out of drug rehabs for a few years. It's not easy to stay clean, especially in this business. Too many temptations....

 

[Nugie]

My rant on addictive behaviors

WARNING: I AM A COMPLETELY INSENSITIVE PRICK IN THE FOLLOWING POST.

Let's start with some basic definitions:

Addiction is a situation, which MAY be accompanied by physical dependency, wherein the individual is psychologically compelled to perform said action.

Exhibit A: "Jacking Off" with coke.

For the hard-core coke user, their nasal passages get completely destroyed, and unable to absorb any more inhaled coke. For whatever reason, some of THESE are hesitant to freebase (in order to smoke cocaine).

They turn to "jacking off" - they take a syringe, fill it with powdered cocaine, and find a vein.

They suck up some blood. The blood serves to slightly dissolve SOME of the cocaine. Then they plunge on the syringe, pushing some of the dissolved cocaine/blood mixture back in.

This process is repeated until the powdered cocaine is consumed, sometimes relatively rapidly - hence, "jacking off".

The problem is that the injection of powdered cocaine directly into the bloodstream results in the decay and destruction of the surrounding tissue. So much so, in fact, that the area around the injection site will very rapidly look like an attack of flesh-eating bacteria.

The addict recognizes that their flesh is dissolving (usually along their legs) and proceeds to find another site.

If you want to understand the nature of addiction, you need to see one of these people, whose legs are so dissolved as to look like a video-game zombie, desperately looking for a new spot to stick the needle into.

More graphic then you guys needed, I know, but it's the ugly truth.

Having said all this, it is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE and VERY VERY LIKELY that most drug users do NOT become "addicts" in the traditional sense of the word.

But I defy you to see one of these people, with half their flesh dissolved and decayed away, as they are desperately looking for their next hit, and not feel rage at the destructive power of these drugs.

 

[dudemtl]

I'm astonished how someone with an addiction to paying for sex somehow has "higher standards" than someone with an addiction to a narcotic.

 

[Nugie]

I'm astonished how someone with an addiction to paying for sex somehow has "higher standards" than someone with an addiction to a narcotic.

The key here is the continuation of said addictive behavior in the face of destructive effects, so much so that it takes priority over almost everything else in your life.

If you're missing mortgage payments because you're using that money for hobbying... you've got a serious problem.

Likewise, I knew a guy who faked injuries to get sick leave in order to stay at home and play EverQuest. He was racking up over 100 hours a week online. That's a serious problem.

 

[naughtylady]

btyger
That's interesting, Bryson. While many johns are married (my divorce isn't final yet), I wonder how many SPs have boyfriends and/or SOs while they're in the industry???

And if they do, how does that work?

"By hon, I'm going off to see a client now."

Most escorts I know claim not to be in a relationship. Ladies, any thoughts/answers?

I am one of those SPs who happen to be in a long term relationship. I was with this great guy before I started SPing. When we met we were both at a point in our lives where we were both seeing other people and not ready to settle down with one person. What can I say, we forgot to stop

He stills has his flings on the side. I now get paid for it. But we both know who we can count on when life throws a curve ball. We both know where our hearts lie. Sex with other people is just that, sex. Love is always something more special and much harder to come by.

BTW, it is more like, "By hon, I am off to work, will be busy till about XY hour"


Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[dudemtl]

You're wrong.

Nice way to start an argument. Yikes.

I live a normal healthy productive life. I choose the lifestyle I live

I've never heard an addict say otherwise!
And it's productive because.... you're spending hundreds of dollars on sex when normally it costs nothing?

inorder to prove to myself that I can make it inspite of my upbringing!

How is sleeping with escorts defined as 'making it' ?

As far as having an addiction to paying for sex...I love sex. I think it's a healthy part of life. Don't you? Deep down psychologically I guess paying for it is just easier since I don't have to deal with rejection...

Dude, listen to yourself. You just defined what it is to have an addiction: a release to AVOID dealing with real life problems. It's the EXACT same thing as a drug addiction, or anything else. Rejection is a normal part of life. It makes you stronger. If you choose to avoid it, you don't learn anything.

And yes, I love sex. With women who fuck ME and not my money. And who I can fuck over and over again and not have to pay a cent.

afterall it was a bad break up that lead me to this hobby in the first place. So in a sense you're right, I really should be spending more time trying to develop more long lasting relationships but aside from the money aspect, I treat SPs like I would any other date.

How so? By paying lots of cash to be with them? Women don't respect that. How many times have you heard of guys taking women out, paying for dinner, and not understanding why the woman doesn't want to bang him that night?

I take an interest in their lives, I make them laugh, we make love and we both leave with a smile on our faces. You'd be hard pressed to find a woman that wasn't happy to have met me.

This is an ILLUSION. It's not REAL. It's a service. They are SERVICE PROVIDERS. They are SERVICING you by building rapport with you so you come back to them.

I always enjoy meeting new people so if you feel like it we can go out cruising for girls. .

Dude, honestly, I cruise for girls all the time. But the people that I cruise with have to have good game. If you can't game, then I don't cruise. I'm tired of teaching people. No offense. But if you can provide me with some sort of track record or gameplan that shows me you know your stuff OTHER than paying for them, then I'm all ears.

Remind me to tell you the story of how an SP's boyfriend called threatening me.

Okay, this is excatly what I'm NOT looking for.

You may find it interesting since I think it's someone you know

And how, pray tell would I know this person?

 

[Nugie]

Dude, listen to yourself. You just defined what it is to have an addiction: a release to AVOID dealing with real life problems. It's the EXACT same thing as a drug addiction, or anything else.

I would have to disagree. This is what you would define as a distraction.

Like playing golf, even if you're really bad, because it's a good reason to get out of the house. Yes, you're avoiding "real" problems, but would you call it an addiction?

At what point did you decide that anyone who hobbies has an addiction?

If I never, ever, hobbied again, it really wouldn't affect my life one way or the other. Disappointing? Maybe, but not too much. Kind of like being a fan of the Knicks in the 90's and then watching them today. Sucks, but, at the end of the day... my oatmeal tastes the same.

If you feel so strongly against this hobby... what are you doing on this board?

 

[dudemtl]

I would have to disagree. This is what you would define as a distraction.

Like playing golf, even if you're really bad, because it's a good reason to get out of the house. Yes, you're avoiding "real" problems, but would you call it an addiction?

At what point did you decide that anyone who hobbies has an addiction?

If I never, ever, hobbied again, it really wouldn't affect my life one way or the other. Disappointing? Maybe, but not too much. Kind of like being a fan of the Knicks in the 90's and then watching them today. Sucks, but, at the end of the day... my oatmeal tastes the same.

If you feel so strongly against this hobby... what are you doing on this board?

To answer your first question: about a year ago, I started my first thread, which is no longer on the board. It was called "how addictive is it being a hobbiest?"

In about three days, there were something like 155 responses. These responses were all beautifully shared by pretty much everyone on the board. They were honest, in depth, forthright, and reavealed a lot of vulnerabilities. I thanked everyone for participating. And the majority of the poeple who posted revealed taht yes, hobbying is extremely addictive, and his has been an ongoing battle on and off for several years. There is no doubt in anyone's mind that sex is addictive. ONce you add the combination of having it with beautiful women that you would never be able to sleep with, with the simplicity of a phone call, it becomes a habit.

Now, it is my turn to share: I have an addiction. While I won't go into what it is here, I will say this: As a recovered addict, I have a problem when people have their OWN addictions and make it that somehow it's BETTER than other addictions.

Bryson said he does it because it's "? Deep down psychologically I guess paying for it is just easier since I don't have to deal with rejection..."

Okay, fair enough. But does an alcoholic drink because he likes to ruin his liver? NO. He does it for many reasons. ONe of them, oftentimes is that it 'loosens him up' so that he can have the guts to make conversation.

My point is, addictions are never created for NEGATIVE purposes. We have addictions to fill a hole in our life. The people with addictions that I respect, and there are some on the board, are the ones who ADMIT they have a problem. Saying "I do it compulsively, but I could drop it" is what ALL addicts have told me. And I know many.

If you feel so strongly against this hobby... what are you doing on this board?

First, I don't feel strongly against the hobby in and OF ITSELF. Second, I'm on the board because I like to get inside the minds of people who have different interests than mine. I have met SEVERAL guys who I consider my friends here. Just because we don't DO the same things doesn't mean I don't value them as people, and feel I can learn from them. Because trust me, I have. Some of the most interesting relationships are developed between people with differences. And then we realize our commonalities as well.

Now, let's look at this more deeply. Bryson says "Deep down psychologically I guess paying for it is just easier since I don't have to deal with rejection..." and I imagine this to be true for most hobbiests. It was true for me with my addiction as well. At least with my addiction, I was still meeting women, which was the PURPOSE of my addiction, and having sex for free. Albeit not as much as I'd like. I realized I had to pick up girls sober if I wanted to do it as much as I wanted to.

Secondly, and more importantly: Rejection is a NORMAL part of life. Having sex with each other is a NORMAL part of life. They go hand in hand. If you are going to use hobbying as a means to short-circuit this Standard process of human evolution, you are in effect weeding your own genes out. Your genes will NOT survive if you do not meet a woman and replicate before your time is up. Seeing escorts will not serve this purpose. Escorts are a temporary 'fix' to a much deeper underlying problem.

After the escort leaves, do you have someone who you can share your deepest secrets with?. Who you can live everyday with? Do you have someone who tells you they love you? (not your mom)? Are you going out and getting laid? If the answer to those questions are 'yes', then there's no problem.

BUT if you are doing this because meeting women is a problem for you; you aren't going to social gatherings and leaving with at LEAST a phone number every single time, then it's time to start asking yourself some important questions. If you go to parties, bars, clubs, whatever, and you see a beautiful woman, and you have NO IDEA how to approach her, then it's time to start asking yourself some questions. And yes, this was a pivotal time in my life for me. There was a time in my life when I said 'fuck this.. I'm going to see an escort." And I then said to myself "Wait a LITTLE longer.. find out the answers to these questions."

And I did. And I'm meeting people. I'm getting laid. Not NEARLY as much as I'd like to (nine days and counting since the last) but hundreds of times more (percentage wise) than before I asked myself the hard questions. But at least I was honest with myself when I said "I DON'T have my shit together. I have a LOT of work to do." And everyday I work at it.

My problem is when someone says they don't have a problem when it's obvious they do.
You have an addiction? Cool. Just be up front about it, and don't try to use words to convince me otherwise.

I've been at rock bottom many times. There's a lot of shit down there. I can smell it. And I smell it everytime someone says "it's not a problem."

 

[General Gonad]

The beauty of 'rock bottom'

I've been at rock bottom many times. There's a lot of shit down there. I can smell it. And I smell it everytime someone says "it's not a problem."

dudemtl, Bryson,

I enjoyed reading your exchanges. I think we need to be careful when we pass judgements on others without really knowing what is going on in their heads.

Is hobbying addictive? Absolutely. Nobody can convince me that there isn't a potential problem of slipping into a never ending vortex where you become habituated into seeing women in this fashion. More disturbing, is that your hobbying can impede your 'normal' relationships without you being fully cognizant of this fact. This is where hobbying becomes destructive, leaving long term behavioral scars that are not easy to heal.

Now, as far as other addictions are concerned, I cannot speak from experience. I have smoked up in my youth and drank like a fish but luckily I never fell into an addiction. I think it's difficult to compare these addictions, however, an addiction to drugs or alcohol can destroy your physical and emotional well-being, so I do think it's worse than an addiction to hobbying. A drug addict or alcoholic experiences physical withdrawal when they stop, which is a powerful force to reckon with, much more powerful than the mental pressures of quitting hobbying.

The key to all addictions is to ADMIT it to yourself. It is a lot easier said than done. We do not like to be reminded of our faults. We are proud creatures with sensitive egos. But admitting an addiction is the first step to seeking help to deal with it.

Let me just say this about dating an SP. If I were single and met someone in this hobby who I cared for deeply, I would take the risk of letting myself fall in love with her. I would befriend her and ask her to quit hobbying and commit to a relationship.

Of course there is a line between fantasy and reality. But too many of you pass judgements or use phrases like "I would never date an SP." Ask yourselves why. Because she has a lot of experience? Because you will not trust her? Because in your mind, you'll always see her as a "whore"? Because she will always see you as a "John"? Because SPs can never offer you a loving relationship? All of this is complete nonsense that we are conditioned to think. If you go into a relationship thinking this way, you're doomed to fail.

Finally, let me get to the title of my post. I hit rock bottom in my mid twenties. It wasn't an addiction but without getting into details, it was a lot worse. Fortunately, I learned from that experience and I became a better person because of it. It grounded me and taught me a valuable lesson in life - don't take anything for granted. Nietzsche was so right: "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger."

There is beauty in hitting rock bottom. The only way you can go after hitting it is up.

GG

 

[Gentle2her]

First and foremost, thanks for your very toughtful posts on those numerous subjects in the last few weeks. I don't know who you are and where you are from, but your contributions here are very interesting and a pleasure to read.

Is hobbying addictive? Absolutely. Nobody can convince me that there isn't a potential problem of slipping into a never ending vortex where you become habituated into seeing women in this fashion. More disturbing, is that your hobbying can impede your 'normal' relationships without you being fully cognizant of this fact. This is where hobbying becomes destructive, leaving long term behavioral scars that are not easy to heal.
[...]
Let me just say this about dating an SP. If I were single and met someone in this hobby who I cared for deeply, I would take the risk of letting myself fall in love with her. I would befriend her and ask her to quit hobbying and commit to a relationship.

Of course there is a line between fantasy and reality. But too many of you pass judgements or use phrases like "I would never date an SP." Ask yourselves why. Because she has a lot of experience? Because you will not trust her? Because in your mind, you'll always see her as a "whore"? Because she will always see you as a "John"? Because SPs can never offer you a loving relationship? All of this is complete nonsense that we are conditioned to think. If you go into a relationship thinking this way, you're doomed to fail.

You've never been so right! In more ways than you may even realize.

 

[General Gonad]

First and foremost, thanks for your very toughtful posts on those numerous subjects in the last few weeks. I don't know who you are and where you are from, but your contributions here are very interesting and a pleasure to read.

Gentle2her,

Thank you, I appreciate your kind words. I am literally a 'nobody' who just writes what he feels from the heart.

Take care and enjoy this beautiful day,

GG

 

[dudemtl]

dudemtl, Bryson,

I enjoyed reading your exchanges. I think we need to be careful when we pass judgements on others without really knowing what is going on in their heads.

Is hobbying addictive? Absolutely. Nobody can convince me that there isn't a potential problem of slipping into a never ending vortex where you become habituated into seeing women in this fashion. More disturbing, is that your hobbying can impede your 'normal' relationships without you being fully cognizant of this fact. This is where hobbying becomes destructive, leaving long term behavioral scars that are not easy to heal.

Now, as far as other addictions are concerned, I cannot speak from experience. I have smoked up in my youth and drank like a fish but luckily I never fell into an addiction. I think it's difficult to compare these addictions, however, an addiction to drugs or alcohol can destroy your physical and emotional well-being, so I do think it's worse than an addiction to hobbying. A drug addict or alcoholic experiences physical withdrawal when they stop, which is a powerful force to reckon with, much more powerful than the mental pressures of quitting hobbying.

The key to all addictions is to ADMIT it to yourself. It is a lot easier said than done. We do not like to be reminded of our faults. We are proud creatures with sensitive egos. But admitting an addiction is the first step to seeking help to deal with it.

Let me just say this about dating an SP. If I were single and met someone in this hobby who I cared for deeply, I would take the risk of letting myself fall in love with her. I would befriend her and ask her to quit hobbying and commit to a relationship.

Of course there is a line between fantasy and reality. But too many of you pass judgements or use phrases like "I would never date an SP." Ask yourselves why. Because she has a lot of experience? Because you will not trust her? Because in your mind, you'll always see her as a "whore"? Because she will always see you as a "John"? Because SPs can never offer you a loving relationship? All of this is complete nonsense that we are conditioned to think. If you go into a relationship thinking this way, you're doomed to fail.

Finally, let me get to the title of my post. I hit rock bottom in my mid twenties. It wasn't an addiction but without getting into details, it was a lot worse. Fortunately, I learned from that experience and I became a better person because of it. It grounded me and taught me a valuable lesson in life - don't take anything for granted. Nietzsche was so right: "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger."

There is beauty in hitting rock bottom. The only way you can go after hitting it is up.

GG

Thanks GG. That's a great post. I think the commonalities between drug or alcohol addictions is that yes, they do mess up our real relationships. And that's a big thing.

And yeah, I've dated strippers. These are easier to meet in their working environments, but as for dating an SP, it's a bit different. I have met SP's before, and have considered 'dating' them (ie banging them), with the condition that they know that I am not interested in any kind of paying situation. They want to be with me, fine. But don't get any ideas.

However, the WAY that we came into contact was outside the FRAME of SP. They weren't working. So the entire communication frame is different. So, to me, I don't see them as SP's. I just see them as girls. I almost said 'normal' girls. Hhaha.. Not that they're 'bad' in any way.. well they are 'bad'.. but in the good ways. My point here, without contradicting myself again, is that when the frame is different, so is the relationship.