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Techman

The Grim Reaper
Dec 23, 2004
4,195
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Rejection...

A few people have mentioned fear of rejection. I think that some people also suffer from just the opposite, a fear of acceptance. It wouldn't surprise me if many people don't even realize that what they are really avoiding is being accepted and having to actually follow through on what they're asking. It's easy to avoid the attempt by saying to themselves that it would never happen so why bother trying. It probably happens to the ladies in the sex business also, saying to themselves that the client would never accept her because of her job. Sometimes the thought of hearing the word yes can be just as scary as no.
 

pookiebear

New Member
Jan 24, 2006
131
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I have had a great connection with on sp. We've seen each other for about 6 months. All of a sudden she stopped calling and when I confront her with this she told me that we are getting to close and she wishes for me to discontinue to see her as a "client". I do have to say it was the best connection that I have had with anybody in or out of bed. She's a great kisser.;)
 

denis blassie

New Member
Jul 7, 2003
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walking on the wild side...

i sympathise with you bytger..a friend of mine was an ex boxer...in great shape.... in his 70s and still could take care of himself in a fight.....he took in a stripper/ho who he had known for a few years ....she had a serious drug problem..1 night jackie overdosed and died in his bed...he had to call the police and it was a messy situation...stressful...police asked all kinds of questions..my friend had a clean record and was guilty of nothing except trying to help a pretty girl...
 

dudemtl

Banned
Feb 26, 2006
65
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0
Okay, so I've been presented with a bevy of ideas here, challenging my views. And that is good. I can certainly welcome that.

If you can imagine for a second, picturing in your mind that there are other ways of living out there. That there are different ways that we choose to live our lives. And, when we have the feeling in our lives that we are not complete, that we are not living up to our utmost, to the best that only we can feel for ourselves, then we begin to ask questions. If you can imagine something else, something deeper involving compuslions and addictions. That our brains are addicted to things that our inside our own realities. That there are actually addictions that we live through every single day, and many times don't even know it's there. This addiction can be described as an addiction to making sense of things. The find a reason. To find an answer to a question that we don't know. To go deep inside our minds, and come up with a logical answer to a certain situation. We do this all the time. We are human. We are logical creatures. When you look back, at the times when you came up with an answer to something you did not previously know before and later find out you were wrong, you begin to draw conclusions. And these conclusions you may find helpful to you, or harmful to you, and you will feel a certain way about it. It's not even important to know what my thoughts and feelings truly are about this hobby. Maybe you're asking yourself why I am on this board. Maybe you are thinking to yourself that I am critical of others. That is fine. I will not try and change what goes inside your mind. If you could picture, on the other hand, the reasons why someone like me would come onto a board like this. Maybe you find some answers for yourself. Maybe you can feel that there is something to be learned. Maybe that you have a value just for living your own life, and describing all of the things that you do in it might be valuable to someone else. That he can take this, and learn from it. And maybe he chooses not to live the same patterns that you do, but that he can find useful things from you that he can learn and adapt to within his own life. And maybe there are thigns that you can learn from this person, who lives in a world very different, but very similar to yours. And when you come to the conclusion that you are not being attacked, not being criticized, you begin to start feeling differently. When you look at this in a whole new way, a whole new light that makes sense for you, then you begin to imagine possibilites. With me, what I learn from you can be more important than what you learn from me. That it's not important to think from a critical frame of mine. To no longer need to come to the conclusion of black vs. white. That there is not one right answer and one wrong answer. That there are thigns that are simply... differernt. There are things that are simply.. unknown. And as that curiosity builds inside of you and you want to learn more about this, you stop, and look at it from a different perspective. And you ask yourself 'what am I getting out of this life?' And when you look deep inside your mind, and perhaps come to the conclusion that there are other ways of seeing things, other ways of being with women that work for some people in a way that you would love to happen for you, is that something that would interest you?
 
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dudemtl

Banned
Feb 26, 2006
65
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btyger said:
That might be the most beautiful thing you've written, GG. I believe you pay an escort to leave too, but I frequently repeat with my favorites, so your point hits home.
I've become very attached to one in particular, and would consider her a friend. Unfortunately, it's difficult for me to know whether or not I'm being manipulated. Is she really an honest, caring woman who's had a rough life and appreciates being with me as much as she says? Part of me would like to think so.
On the other hand, my more cynical and cautious side warns that she is likely telling me what she thinks I want to hear in order to keep me coming back.

I was in a similar situation as you with a dancer about a year ago. I will ask you the same question my friend asked me: "Are you paying her?"
 

Spec

New Member
Apr 1, 2006
9
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dudemtl said:
If you can imagine for a second, ...?

Thank you man, you changed my mine. Ten years from now, looking back at this moment, I can see the start of it, a start of a new direction,... coming from below. Sometimes, just thinking about being with a women, having an incredible connection with her gives me a lot of pleasure and happenis...right now. IMHO, people who are addicted to something, be it sex or drug, are looking for that elusive 'IT' to feel a void inside them. And when you have it, that happines, right in front of you, you'll have to go for it, grab it...or it could slip away and you just find it gone. I bet that you can still feel safe on this board, so that you know that it`s OK to express youself and even imagine having your fantasies really come true. Now with me that`s how i see it that way.
 
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General Gonad

Enlightened pervert
Dec 31, 2005
3,459
6
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fear of acceptance?

Techman said:
A few people have mentioned fear of rejection. I think that some people also suffer from just the opposite, a fear of acceptance. It wouldn't surprise me if many people don't even realize that what they are really avoiding is being accepted and having to actually follow through on what they're asking. It's easy to avoid the attempt by saying to themselves that it would never happen so why bother trying. It probably happens to the ladies in the sex business also, saying to themselves that the client would never accept her because of her job. Sometimes the thought of hearing the word yes can be just as scary as no.

Techman,

Interesting observation. I would have never thought that people would fear being accepted. I am sure that many SPs think this way. However, if you're honest with them and keep the secret between each other, why should they be scared?

I am serious when I state that I would have no problems dating an SP. If I was single and developed a friendship first, then I would ask her to commit to the relationship. I would ask her to respect my wishes and stop SPing while we dated. I wouldn't have any hangups at all. The secret lies in bringing out all your fears and concerns in the open - you need to communicate so you know where you both stand.

GG
 

dudemtl

Banned
Feb 26, 2006
65
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0
Karma said:
Banging other people euh ?
Do you have any ideas of what you're talking about ?
Think twice.

Sorry, I didn't realize that SP's wait on their bed knitting a sweater waiting for that ONE client to call them back.

You ARE kidding, right?
 

Nugie

Village Idiot
Aug 23, 2005
146
0
0
NYC's armpit
General Gonad said:
Again, we do not hobby to meet our life partner but you never know where your life paths take you. Keep an open mind, develop a friendship, and for pete's sake take this negative crap of "it's doomed to fail" out of your minds. This is utter nonsense that you were conditioned to believe or believe as a defense mechanism.

GG,

I think you're right on both points, but...

True. We don't hobby to find our life partner.

True. Keep an open mind, because you never know.

HOWEVER: The chance of this happening is just pretty darn rare. I think someone would have a better chance of meeting a life partner at a supermarket then they would through the SP/Client relationship.

Furthermore, on your final point - it ABSOLUTELY is a defense mechanism. I don't think it's because of fear of rejection, but through a reality check. These women are professionals: their JOB is to make you happy. Some of them are very, very good at it. I don't mean to imply that if they seem to enjoy your company as well that they're insincere. I mean that visits with SP's don't have as much of a failsafe as, for example, drugs or alcohol (withdrawal/hangovers). It just seems like a total upside. For stuff like that, you NEED to be somewhat guarded, before an addictive behavior can develop.
 

General Gonad

Enlightened pervert
Dec 31, 2005
3,459
6
0
Nugie said:
GG,

I think you're right on both points, but...

True. We don't hobby to find our life partner.

True. Keep an open mind, because you never know.

HOWEVER: The chance of this happening is just pretty darn rare. I think someone would have a better chance of meeting a life partner at a supermarket then they would through the SP/Client relationship.

Yes, the chances are slim, but how do you know the lady at the supermarket was never an SP?:D


Nugie said:
Furthermore, on your final point - it ABSOLUTELY is a defense mechanism. I don't think it's because of fear of rejection, but through a reality check. These women are professionals: their JOB is to make you happy. Some of them are very, very good at it. I don't mean to imply that if they seem to enjoy your company as well that they're insincere. I mean that visits with SP's don't have as much of a failsafe as, for example, drugs or alcohol (withdrawal/hangovers). It just seems like a total upside. For stuff like that, you NEED to be somewhat guarded, before an addictive behavior can develop.

Their job is to make you feel happy, to lie to you, to put you up on a pedistle for an hour...maybe but some lies are a lot easier to detect than others.;)

Is it really so inconceivable that you can meet someone special through this hobby and it can go somewhere? Why sabotage your chances from the getgo with petty defense mechanisms or "doomed to fail" mindsets.

Most SPs are not going to develop a relationship with their clients but others will. There is always an upside to meeting someone special even if only a friendship develops.

GG
 

vtguy

Member
Jul 16, 2003
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in my experience

I dated a SP for 1+ years, broke up, got back together once, finally broke it off for good. But I continue to feel that she was the type of person I could spend a very, very long time with. She was quite younger than me. However, even with generous yet decidedly limited financial help from me to help her transition out of her "job" -- she drifted in and out of three low paying jobs, each time the boss was to blame. She eventually experienced a crisis with most aspects of her life, especially with respect to her education and vocational issues. And instead of breaking away from her escort co-workers, she drifted toward turning them into her main group of friends, inviting them to her apartment. She wanted to pull me into this group but I refused. (She'd been telling me all along she wanted to change her life so the contradictions were running wild.) To complicate matters, she depended on speed and exstacy to deal with her everyday problems -- even feeling she had to take exstacy before an individual presentation at university "to relax" and deal with her anxiety. For the second time, I had to get out. It wasn't pretty. Now I often wonder after two years what's become of her. I often ask myself whether I should try to contact her...

I agree that you have to live a lie when dating a SP -- you have to lie about how you meet, where she works, etc. You can say Who Cares, and possibly work around this, but not with a girl who can't break out of her mold and start a new life. And you always run the risk of hurting your family members who might not accept any SPs whatsoever.

But it's all very tricky because you don't want to help her too much financially because this can lead to a new dependence on YOU. So, I think it's very difficult.

Ironically, I've meet a new MP who I'd love to try this over with. So, maybe I'm the one with problems, always going for SPs. Maybe. But I've only done it once and it almost worked out. (As far as dating non-SPs, I'm in a real rut there... I've sorta given up ... seems like an equally hazardous avenue to negotiate these days.)

I tend to say that it's okay to try to keep it a secret and if you blow your cover, well they might be right, but they might be wrong, and only time will tell.... Ahem, they're still debating over Jesus and Mary.
 
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Nugie

Village Idiot
Aug 23, 2005
146
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0
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General Gonad said:
Is it really so inconceivable that you can meet someone special through this hobby and it can go somewhere? Why sabotage your chances from the getgo with petty defense mechanisms or "doomed to fail" mindsets.

No, it's not completely inconceivable. BUT, if it so happens that a meaningful relationship was meant to develop, I would think the attraction would be strong enough to penetrate whatever defenses existed. And the defenses are necessary in order to prevent an unrealistic attraction to someone whose job it is to make you attracted to them.
 

General Gonad

Enlightened pervert
Dec 31, 2005
3,459
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Nugie said:
No, it's not completely inconceivable. BUT, if it so happens that a meaningful relationship was meant to develop, I would think the attraction would be strong enough to penetrate whatever defenses existed. And the defenses are necessary in order to prevent an unrealistic attraction to someone whose job it is to make you attracted to them.

Fair enough, I will agree with you on that last point to a certain degree. My point is that if you're willing to risk falling in love with the RIGHT SP, then it could work and be an amazing and fulfilling relationship, better than anything else you ever experienced in your life. And I am not talking about the sex. I am talking about an incredible relationship based on genuine caring, love and admiration for one another.

GG
 

Nugie

Village Idiot
Aug 23, 2005
146
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GG -

Um... I guess so. But I have that right now. I guess it's hard for me to see your perspective because I'm not looking for genuine love, caring, and admiration.
 

General Gonad

Enlightened pervert
Dec 31, 2005
3,459
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vtguy said:
I agree that you have to live a lie when dating a SP -- you have to lie about how you meet, where she works, etc. You can say Who Cares, and possibly work around this, but not with a girl who can't break out of her mold and start a new life. And you always run the risk of hurting your family members who might not accept any SPs whatsoever.

But it's all very tricky because you don't want to help her too much financially because this can lead to a new dependence on YOU. So, I think it's very difficult.

vtguy,

Thanks for sharing your experience, I truly appreciate it. I will admit that when I wrote above to Nugie fallling in love with the "RIGHT SP," I did not mean someone who would find it difficult to break away. I was talking about someone who has self-confidence and ambition and sees SPing as a temporary passage of life. There are many incredible young ladies like this. You can pretty much gauge if they will be strong enough to make a break from this line of work and be mature enough to enter into a committed relationship. Trust me, I was surprised to see how many of them are like this, SPing part time to put themselves through school or as a means to start their own business. These are the type of women that really turn me on.;)

GG
 

General Gonad

Enlightened pervert
Dec 31, 2005
3,459
6
0
Nugie said:
GG -

Um... I guess so. But I have that right now. I guess it's hard for me to see your perspective because I'm not looking for genuine love, caring, and admiration.

Yes, you and I have it because we are married. I might complain about he lack of sex but we have everything else, including genuine love. I am talking about the single guys out there who are hesitating to make a move because of preconceived notions that it just wouldn't work out. I think that in rare cases, not only could it work but it could flourish!

GG
 

dudemtl

Banned
Feb 26, 2006
65
0
0
This is previous quote from GG:

This isn't fair, just like it isn't fair for her to be continually suspiscious of you because you were once a "client."

Nope, not fair.
Nor is life.
The thing is, she has EVERY right to be "suspicious."
In fact, it's not suspicion, but it's a combination of emotions that are based and developed on evolutionary hardwiring.
This hardwiring that is built into all of our emotional mechanismns is built for two purposes: Survival and Replication.
That' our goal in life.

Now, in order to become attractive to a female you have to demonstrate a high survival and replication value. Most clients of SP's only offer one: Survival value. They PAY them for their time, enabling the SP to buy things like food and clothing. For the few clients that are deemed to have REPLICATION value by the SP, then a relationship can begin.

However, the problem with this one is the following: By being a client, just by the mere fact that the client has already PAID for the SP's time, he has demonstrated a low replicatoin value. "Why do you need to pay for sex?" is the question that EVERY SP will SUBCONSCIOUSLY ask themselves, whether they will consciously admit it or not. So, if her atttration to the client is strong enough, that inner question becomes more and more important. She needs to know that she has selected a man of quality, and she needs to know, deep in her mind, that they guy doesn't NEED to pay for sex, that it was just a one-time thing, etc etc.

So no, it's not fair, but nobody ever claimed that life was.
 
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dudemtl

Banned
Feb 26, 2006
65
0
0
General Gonad said:
Yes, the chances are slim, but how do you know the lady at the supermarket was never an SP?:D

No, this is a misconception. It's in fact very easy to meet a woman in a supermarket. It's one of the easiest places in fact, since her defense shield is down, and you are in a community environment. Once you have a proper gameplan, you can spend all day in a grocery store if you want picking woman after woman until you get hungry and go home to eat.
 

General Gonad

Enlightened pervert
Dec 31, 2005
3,459
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dudemtl said:
Now, in order to become attractive to a female you have to demonstrate a high survival and replication value. Most clients of SP's only offer one: Survival value. They PAY them for their time, enabling the SP to buy things like food and clothing. For the few clients that are deemed to have REPLICATION value by the SP, then a relationship can begin.

So most SPs only care about the size of our wallets..of course, how stupid of me!:rolleyes:

dudemtl said:
However, the problem with this one is the following: By being a client, just by the mere fact that the client has already PAID for the SP's time, he has demonstrated a low replicatoin value. "Why do you need to pay for sex?" is the question that EVERY SP will SUBCONSCIOUSLY ask themselves, whether they will consciously admit it or not. So, if her atttration to the client is strong enough, that inner question becomes more and more important. She needs to know that she has selected a man of quality, and she needs to know, deep in her mind, that they guy doesn't NEED to pay for sex, that it was just a one-time thing, etc etc.

What a load of crap - "low replication value." If you truly believe this, then you're a lost cause in your normal relationships, never mind a relationship with an SP.

SPs understand better than most women the complexities of the male species. If a relationship develops, it's typically the guys that are incapable of trusting their lady, not the other way around. If you were cheating on a girlfriend of yours that used to be an SP, she would figure it out very quickly.

Dude, I know you THINK you've got it all figured out, but the fact of the matter is that you and many others are slaves to socially predetermined notions regarding women who work as SPs. Your generalizations are simply wrong and very consensual.

I have met my share of gems to prove you wrong.

GG
 

Nugie

Village Idiot
Aug 23, 2005
146
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0
NYC's armpit
dudemtl said:
No, this is a misconception. It's in fact very easy to meet a woman in a supermarket. It's one of the easiest places in fact, since her defense shield is down, and you are in a community environment. Once you have a proper gameplan, you can spend all day in a grocery store if you want picking woman after woman until you get hungry and go home to eat.

I can't even count how many times I've been hit on by women in supermarkets. Also in wine stores (if it seems like you know what you're doing).

Strategy #1: Hold a printout of a reasonably yummy recipe. Apologetically ask for assistance for finding ingredients. Invent interesting story as to why you are cooking:

"I started being a Big Brother to a kid in a foster home and I wanted to give him a real home-cooked meal."

"My old high school teacher lost his wife, and I thought he would like it if I brought over some food."

Strategy #2: Linger over and thoughtfully ponder exotic ingredients (if female is present) and ask for opinions. Mostly useful in specialty stores:

"You know, I can't really decide between the Madagascar or the Tahitian vanilla. What do you think?"

Strategy #3: Only works in wine stores if it's clear the woman doesn't know anything. If she picks up a bottle and you can suggest something better, walk over and do so. Smile, and then leave. If she follows and asks if you work there, you're in.
 
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