Tips, gratuities, etc.

[Lunaseraphim]

Oh yeah i get that. I just meant more the guys who send 200-500$ as e-transfer online or such. Im sure there is also a genuine good feeling but i think some of them depending on the situation also enjoy showing they have the money and the means to do it. I think myself included if i would win the loto, i would likely bring my favorite SPs on vacations or such and obviously gift them many things. Sometimes its dependable on financial situation.

2 years ago i received in DM on OF a video of a pornstar (who also escort) selling for 10$ or so a video of her first facial of 2024, and she "thanks" Mr C saying "you know who you are" and i dunno it just felt so hot Lucky Mr C

I just want to point out that I said multiple times that nobody is expecting gifts. We all know that not everyone can take us on vacations (btw nobody ever took me on vacations), take us out for an entire day, etc. We know it depends on financial situation. There isn't a competition between clients, or at least there shouldn't be. I've had clients tell me before that they felt like they had to compete with others, and it made me really uncomfortable, because I felt like they were doing something they maybe wouldn't have done otherwise, which breeds negative feelings. My appreciation of a client doesn't necessarily have to do with how much he spent on me, and I know many providers feel the same way. (repeating the same thing so that it sinks in..)

If you won the lotto and you took your favorite SPs on vacations and gifted them many things, would you be doing it because you want to show off your money? Keep in mind that nobody will ever know it's you. I've posted pictures of dates I went on, but people have no idea who took me on those dates, and I prefer it that way for reasons of privacy. It's the same thing with gifts. Even if you bought your favorite SP a house nobody would know it's you, so I don't know how it's showing off the money to buy it. When I take my friends out to eat at nice restaurants or bring nice wine and food to their place, or when I give people presents, I don't expect that they will post it on social media and tag me. I'm not trying to show off that I can afford it, I just want to make these people happy... I'm sure that's also why you wish you had the money to give gifts and bring someone on a nice vacation.

Btw, there are people who use gifts in manipulative ways. There's a client I blocked because he crossed my boundaries, who harassed me under different pseudonyms for an entire year. His latest attempt at booking me was asking what my size is for luxury lingerie. He then texted me and said "hey its (insert name here), when can i see you and give you your lingerie?".. He thought that he could bait me with a luxury item, but he was wrong. This same client gave me a tip after he violated my boundaries.

There are others who will say "I gave her so many gifts and took her on so many nice dates, why is she not giving me more than I paid for?" Well, because that wasn't the agreement. If you give a gift or a tip, it should be because you really want to. I do think that girls at agencies who only get to keep 200$ from a GFE booking deserve a tip, but that's my personal opinion.

 

[Anong]

Before or after taxes?

Quebec charges tax ON tax, why not SPs deserves Tips after taxes! lol

 

[Giselle Montreal]

Quebec charges tax ON tax, why not SPs deserves Tips after taxes! lol

No, we don't anymore. It's not tax on tax anymore, and the tip is calculated before taxes now.

 

[Endurance2024]

This is something I've been wondering for a while. Why is it a turn off if somebody got a gift? It's a way to show appreciation to the person who gave it, not showing off.. I don't understand this attitude at all.

And by the way this isn't me implying you guys gotta bring gifts, cause no one ever said it was a necessity. It's just really weird to be upset that a SP got a gift and posted a picture of it online.

Personally my work socials are meant to share different things that happened to me as a SP, some of them are really fun things and I am happy about them and want to share.. Why does this make me a princess? Maybe it's a matter of perspective here.

I don't share these things on my personal social media because most of my friends are poor and I don't want to make them feel bad...

---

Most of us aren't expecting tips or gifts unless there's a rule around a certain kind of date, but remember that girls at agencies don't keep all the money you give them.

And yes, for a 2+ hour date, it's nice to bring something to share like a closed bottle of wine if the person drinks, and maybe a snack.

Luna I feel I owe you an answer lol. I do appreciate your interaction on the board here. I've never met you and I already like you, so here goes.

For context and to answer another point you brought up about SPs in Agencies keeping only say 200 per hour. My understanding and correct me if I'm wrong Agencies do the advertising, the bookings, the cancellations and rebookings, Picture taking and marketing of each SP. I may have missed something or got it wrong let me know. The Agencies charges a room fee of what 60 per hour? If its two bedrom condo their getting 120 per hour if two SP's are scheduled. I don't think their allowed to charge the SP directly so its a room rate that includes all the agencies services above. Most Agency SP tell me the agency has been good to them so its seems like a WIn Win.

our time together is essentially a verbal contract of what services, boundaries discussed yours and mine lol and amount of time. If your my GF for an hour then thats it. But what I can say is during that hour if I feel a connection, or we hit it off and we have fun and we banter and the GFE sticks with me as a great one then I will repeat and likely often. I have to believe that a client like me as a repeater is more valuable than a few 30min one timers cause your losing time cleaning in between those 30 minute sessions and the agency is always trying to find more of them or better longer sessions
So a smart SP at an agency is not going to sit idle in her downtime on her shift. She is going to be on social media posting her schedule and a sweet wish you were here message or something and chatting up her regulars how much she misses them. This type of action get your schedule more bookings in addition to your Agencies advertising and efforts.

You mentioned something about social class. I don't consider myself upper class but middle class. I'm older and mortgage free but still working a decent wage but not something a gold digger would find appealing honestly. I just have some free cash flow that allows me to do this as a hobby. I wish like others here to win the lottery but thats a long shot. To put it in to context If I book a 3 hour evening with an SP that cost me $1k. That 3 hours will take me 4 business days to earn that much after taxes and deductions been taken off. So to me the SP has to figure things out and get more repeating clients cause 1k for 3 hours is pretty good in my books

For the OP
Pay a good donation nothing more nothing less when your first starting out. Gifts aren't necessary also for first time seeing an SP. Maybe if you had a great first session and happy enough to tip cause you know your going to see her again but if you start that you and her might feel thats just normal going forward. So I stick to the contract amount and if she raises her rates I will comply unless it goes outside my top amount. I'll have to debate in my head the numbers. Damn I should be buying lotto tickets then shouldn't I LoL.

Back onto gifts. I have given a gift card for Christmas time and if she shares her birthday I'll get a small gift as well but a gift is meaningless if it is expected or you feel you need to give one everytime. I invited to an Outcall one of my favs on my birthday and was pleasantly surprised when she showed up with a bottle of wine and some chocolates.
Just No gifts unless its an occasion just like in real life.

Onto social media and gift announcements probably once in a while a public thank you.
But yeah those american expensive bag gift bragging thumbs down (Princess). I've seen it here though as well.

Something similar
I followed a popular SP and she is constanlty almost everday messaging out one thing or another as sweet as she can be to her followers that she should could use this and or that and the next day rewarding and sweet thank you. Princess .. I had to click unfollow eventually. And I here she is fully booked most of the time at an Agencies top tier rate. Good on her though, another revenue stream .. smart business person. Just out of my league.

So there you go. Hope you didn't find it to much of an Endurace read :+)

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Luna I feel I owe you an answer lol. I do appreciate your interaction on the board here. I've never met you and I already like you, so here goes.

For context and to answer another point you brought up about SPs in Agencies keeping only say 200 per hour. My understanding and correct me if I'm wrong Agencies do the advertising, the bookings, the cancellations and rebookings, Picture taking and marketing of each SP. I may have missed something or got it wrong let me know. The Agencies charges a room fee of what 60 per hour? If its two bedrom condo their getting 120 per hour if two SP's are scheduled. I don't think their allowed to charge the SP directly so its a room rate that includes all the agencies services above. Most Agency SP tell me the agency has been good to them so its seems like a WIn Win.

our time together is essentially a verbal contract of what services, boundaries discussed yours and mine lol and amount of time. If your my GF for an hour then thats it. But what I can say is during that hour if I feel a connection, or we hit it off and we have fun and we banter and the GFE sticks with me as a great one then I will repeat and likely often. I have to believe that a client like me as a repeater is more valuable than a few 30min one timers cause your losing time cleaning in between those 30 minute sessions and the agency is always trying to find more of them or better longer sessions
So a smart SP at an agency is not going to sit idle in her downtime on her shift. She is going to be on social media posting her schedule and a sweet wish you were here message or something and chatting up her regulars how much she misses them. This type of action get your schedule more bookings in addition to your Agencies advertising and efforts.

You mentioned something about social class. I don't consider myself upper class but middle class. I'm older and mortgage free but still working a decent wage but not something a gold digger would find appealing honestly. I just have some free cash flow that allows me to do this as a hobby. I wish like others here to win the lottery but thats a long shot. To put it in to context If I book a 3 hour evening with an SP that cost me $1k. That 3 hours will take me 4 business days to earn that much after taxes and deductions been taken off. So to me the SP has to figure things out and get more repeating clients cause 1k for 3 hours is pretty good in my books

For the OP
Pay a good donation nothing more nothing less when your first starting out. Gifts aren't necessary also for first time seeing an SP. Maybe if you had a great first session and happy enough to tip cause you know your going to see her again but if you start that you and her might feel thats just normal going forward. So I stick to the contract amount and if she raises her rates I will comply unless it goes outside my top amount. I'll have to debate in my head the numbers. Damn I should be buying lotto tickets then shouldn't I LoL.

Back onto gifts. I have given a gift card for Christmas time and if she shares her birthday I'll get a small gift as well but a gift is meaningless if it is expected or you feel you need to give one everytime. I invited to an Outcall one of my favs on my birthday and was pleasantly surprised when she showed up with a bottle of wine and some chocolates.
Just No gifts unless its an occasion just like in real life.

Onto social media and gift announcements probably once in a while a public thank you.
But yeah those american expensive bag gift bragging thumbs down (Princess). I've seen it here though as well.

Something similar
I followed a popular SP and she is constanlty almost everday messaging out one thing or another as sweet as she can be to her followers that she should could use this and or that and the next day rewarding and sweet thank you. Princess .. I had to click unfollow eventually. And I here she is fully booked most of the time at an Agencies top tier rate. Good on her though, another revenue stream .. smart business person. Just out of my league.

So there you go. Hope you didn't find it to much of an Endurace read :+)

Thank you for answering.

About tipping girls who work for agencies is that from my point of view, 200 or less per hour for a full GFE is very low, depending on the client expectations. But this is my personal opinion and you are correct, the agency is doing a lot of work that is indies have to do.. however they don't do all the work. The agency owners aren't there with the client.. they're not the ones cleaning the room and rushing between bookings either.

Honestly, if a SP is asking for gifts on social media, that doesn't make her a princess. It just means she knows she has fans who are willing to send her something once in a while. You would be doing the same thing at her place.. she isn't asking you or anyone specific for gifts. I'm glad you unfollowed her if it made you feel bad, tho.

I just want to say that if you feel like gifts are expected but that's not mentioned, that might be a misunderstanding... Even if the person posts her wish list once in a while or posts about gifts on socials. Nobody expects a gift at every session.

I had a conversation on my social media about this subject. One gentleman from Toronto was gracious enough to message me and explain from his perspective why some don't like it if we get gifts etc. From conversations he had with multiple clients. It was eye opening for me and kinda what I suspected, but I won't write it down here.

What I think would be inappropriate personally is if somebody was privately messaging multiple clients and asking them for gifts and money, and apparently that does happen. I guess in this situation it depends of the relationship you have with the client, but I would never do this personally, because it could cause problems in the future..

I also wasn't implying that you can afford spending tons of money, I know everyone has a different budget. I hope you have a nice day!

 

[Hmmm…]

People confuse the fantasy with reality. SP's stand for service provider and are providing a service. People often confuse this thinking this friendship is more than transactional. Many of these girls would not even look in your direction or even bother to swipe right if you met them in the wild. The whole idea that if I see this provider enough and give enough gifts, I can transition to a FwB or free casual hookup is delusional. And just like when I tutor someone, we agree the payment is cash not gifts or food. I can't pay rent and Apple doesn't accept food and drink as a form of payment.

Funny thing is that I arguably think that women seem to be more vulnerable to this delusion. Yes women. In Japan, host clubs or nightclubs where you go drink with a "host" at your table is a giant business. It's for both sexes, but the women are notorious for developing a false relationship with these male host showering them with gifts including up to luxury cars that some male hosts are literally superstars and many women have gone bankrupt from these gifts. Of course, the the spigot runs dry, the host immediately ignores them and ghosts them. It's gotten so bad there are now laws for this. (

)

The other issue is a combo of spenders and flexers. Just like the NBA/NHL player at 18 that just got signed for millions and start spending like crazy, there are some SP who start doing this too making a thousand or two per night and then spending that the next day. Then they flex on social media. Same goes with gf/SP in other cultures where the culture is more about gift giving. You see a lot of influencer models who never post a single modeling job, casting or any mention of any agency traveling around the world, attending festivals, being on yachts and getting Birkins, those 1000 rose bouquets and red bottoms. Then they flex on social media.

And as Luna said, gifts become dangerous when it's an implication that the client can go beyond limits or apologize for transgressions. This podcast is long, but it's hilarious and super interesting and really touches on a lot of this discussion. (

)

 

[Lunaseraphim]

People confuse the fantasy with reality. SP's stand for service provider and are providing a service. People often confuse this thinking this friendship is more than transactional. Many of these girls would not even look in your direction or even bother to swipe right if you met them in the wild. The whole idea that if I see this provider enough and give enough gifts, I can transition to a FwB or free casual hookup is delusional. And just like when I tutor someone, we agree the payment is cash not gifts or food. I can't pay rent and Apple doesn't accept food and drink as a form of payment.

Funny thing is that I arguably think that women seem to be more vulnerable to this delusion. Yes women. In Japan, host clubs or nightclubs where you go drink with a "host" at your table is a giant business. It's for both sexes, but the women are notorious for developing a false relationship with these male host showering them with gifts including up to luxury cars that some male hosts are literally superstars and many women have gone bankrupt from these gifts. Of course, the the spigot runs dry, the host immediately ignores them and ghosts them. It's gotten so bad there are now laws for this. (

)

The other issue is a combo of spenders and flexers. Just like the NBA/NHL player at 18 that just got signed for millions and start spending like crazy, there are some SP who start doing this too making a thousand or two per night and then spending that the next day. Then they flex on social media. Same goes with gf/SP in other cultures where the culture is more about gift giving. You see a lot of influencer models who never post a single modeling job, casting or any mention of any agency traveling around the world, attending festivals, being on yachts and getting Birkins, those 1000 rose bouquets and red bottoms. Then they flex on social media.

And as Luna said, gifts become dangerous when it's an implication that the client can go beyond limits or apologize for transgressions. This podcast is long, but it's hilarious and super interesting and really touches on a lot of this discussion. (

)

Hosts actually don't sleep with their customers, or are not supposed to, which creates more fantasies, and a girl who isn't in a good place mentally may develop a parasocial obsession with the host, but that's not his fault, he's just doing his job. It's kinda like that phrase ''you're delusional if you think the stripper actually likes you''.. And yes, the stripper, or the host, may genuinely like you, but it's their job to be pleasant and seductive, and at the end of the day they are going to go home and talk to friends who they don't have a transactional relationship with. What makes sense to me is that if someone is spending time entertaining you in ways that feel more or less intimate, giving a gift may be a reflex for the person, as a gesture of appreciation. Creating an atmosphere of intimacy is not easy work, particularly when you are to get sexual with the person, and when you spend a lot of time with them.

Ultimately I stand by what I say, social media is a fantasy and doesn't reflect reality. You often don't see a lot of the work that someone puts into it, you often don't read about negative experiences, etc. I don't think there's any ''issue'' here. If you want to see sex workers, you have to be okay with the fact that no matter how much we charge, how much money we get or how many gifts we receive, it's a luxury and not a necessity to see a SP. To me it's a bit hypocritical to seek a luxury service on a regular basis, and be upset that the person who provides the luxury service is living a good life. You wouldn't be happy if we were complaining about awful clients or crying about not having enough money, either.

 

[Hmmm…]

I wonder where tips even came from and whether it's an extension of the whole US tipping culture that's extended worldwide for all service industries. In the US, tipping is required because it's in the wage structure with minimum wage at $7.25 /h but wages for tipped employees at $2.13 /h. Those employees survive on tips and tips are expected to be 18%-25%. In Japan, tips are considered offensive, and in Europe it's not expected with tips ranging from 5%-10%. Canada seems to be taking on this US obsession as I've seen every point of service kiosk have the US tip ranges.

It will be hilarious when one day, after a booking, the SP hands you a iPad, turns around and the options are 15%, 20%, 25%, other.

Also, I don't think this happens in MTL, but from what I've read, some indy SPs would text regulars especially when business was a slower about how they miss them and want to see them again. Also when they travel, they have regulars that they may give a notice to better organize their leisure and work hours a few weeks ahead. This could be annoying spam for some, but having that SP on your mind can also easily build that false sense of relationship.

 

[LeDodo]

Funny thing is that I arguably think that women seem to be more vulnerable to this delusion. Yes women. In Japan, host clubs or nightclubs where you go drink with a "host" at your table is a giant business. It's for both sexes, but the women are notorious for developing a false relationship with these male host showering them with gifts including up to luxury cars that some male hosts are literally superstars and many women have gone bankrupt from these gifts.

Well i wouldn't put a gender on the vulnerability as in the West (as an opposite of the East like Japan) men who has the means do not hesitate to spoil their ladies as well and with with luxury cars as well.

Then they flex on social media. Same goes with gf/SP in other cultures where the culture is more about gift giving. You see a lot of influencer models who never post a single modeling job, casting or any mention of any agency traveling around the world, attending festivals, being on yachts and getting Birkins, those 1000 rose bouquets and red bottoms. Then they flex on social media.

Actually in Asia (but not only) there is a PTGF activity which is between Sugaring and Escorting. There is not always intimacy but lot of "gifts" in exchange of their time with their clients.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I wonder where tips even came from and whether it's an extension of the whole US tipping culture that's extended worldwide for all service industries. In the US, tipping is required because it's in the wage structure with minimum wage at $7.25 /h but wages for tipped employees at $2.13 /h. Those employees survive on tips and tips are expected to be 18%-25%. In Japan, tips are considered offensive, and in Europe it's not expected with tips ranging from 5%-10%. Canada seems to be taking on this US obsession as I've seen every point of service kiosk have the US tip ranges.

It will be hilarious when one day, after a booking, the SP hands you a iPad, turns around and the options are 15%, 20%, 25%, other.

Also, I don't think this happens in MTL, but from what I've read, some indy SPs would text regulars especially when business was a slower about how they miss them and want to see them again. Also when they travel, they have regulars that they may give a notice to better organize their leisure and work hours a few weeks ahead. This could be annoying spam for some, but having that SP on your mind can also easily build that false sense of relationship.

It's not a false sense of relationship that we're creating to manipulate the client. The whole point of companionship is building relationships and connections with clients. Sure it's transactional but that doesn't mean it's "false". I have clients in other cities I'm always looking forward to seeing when I tour and if I do message them it's because I know it doesn't bother them.