Do we trust society enough to give some people the right to torture other people? To quote a line from famous Boston writer Dennis Lehane: "I don't think society has the right or the intelligence. Let society prove to me they can pave roads efficiently; then I'll let them decide life or death."
Torture for terrorists?
- Thread starter Sol Tee Nutz
- Start date
Nothing political about this, just my thoughts. Too many bleeding hearts who feel sorry for terrorists, bet if your legs were blown off like the guy in Boston you would be singing a different song.
You guys aren't getting it...
It's this human rights stuff that makes everybody think 'one' individual is more important than the whole society we live in (including all these innocent childrens, and vulnerable people).
It's our duty to keep them safe and sometimes it means taking responsability not some BS justice system who only makes money with books and some stupid laws they made 200 years ago.
Everyone should have this in mind when living in a society.
This way there always a place for everyone including pedos, rapists, terrorists...
Use them against their own kind of people.
That's all.
It's this human rights stuff that makes everybody think 'one' individual is more important than the whole society we live in (including all these innocent childrens, and vulnerable people).
It's our duty to keep them safe and sometimes it means taking responsability not some BS justice system who only makes money with books and some stupid laws they made 200 years ago.
Everyone should have this in mind when living in a society.
This way there always a place for everyone including pedos, rapists, terrorists...
Use them against their own kind of people.
That's all.
My thoughts on this are: I don't believe as a society we should allow our government to sanction torture. First, governments should never have that kind of power. It's not worth the risk of getting someone innocent. Second, if we are supposedly a civilized society, we just don't stoop to that level.
That being said, if some random person does torture a terrorist, rapist, pedophile, or murderer...it wouldn't bother me any lol.
That being said, if some random person does torture a terrorist, rapist, pedophile, or murderer...it wouldn't bother me any lol.
I was already in lust with your pics :eyebrows:...now I'm really falling for your mind :hail:...I guess at some point I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet and see you :lol:
Hmmmm. This is an Interesting question for sure. I don't believe in torture for the sake of torture. I do believe in "enhanced interrogation techniques." Say there is a bomb on a timer hidden and we want to know where it is or there is a stolen nuke hidden somewhere and we want to retrieve it before it is detonated.
Techman makes a good point. You can get people to confess to anything. I watched a documentary about Khmer Rouge and how they would bring in villagers and accuse them of conspiring with the CIA and the KGB. the would torture them until they would confess to being one or the other. These villagers had never even heard of the CIA and KGB. They would continue torturing them until they gave a name of a coconspirator from the village. This would continue until they killed and intimidated all the people that they felt that they needed to kill or torture.
So if you came into my living room and tortured me until I confessed to being KGB or CIA you would probably get a confession that would prove nothing and be ineffective. However, if you tortured me until I gave you the combination to my safe, this could work and I would open the safe. Put a few sharpened bamboo sticks under my finger nails and I would be happy to tell you the combination to my safe and it would not be a lie.
Therefore, I would say yes I believe there probably are circumstances in which torture could be necessary and effective
Techman makes a good point. You can get people to confess to anything. I watched a documentary about Khmer Rouge and how they would bring in villagers and accuse them of conspiring with the CIA and the KGB. the would torture them until they would confess to being one or the other. These villagers had never even heard of the CIA and KGB. They would continue torturing them until they gave a name of a coconspirator from the village. This would continue until they killed and intimidated all the people that they felt that they needed to kill or torture.
So if you came into my living room and tortured me until I confessed to being KGB or CIA you would probably get a confession that would prove nothing and be ineffective. However, if you tortured me until I gave you the combination to my safe, this could work and I would open the safe. Put a few sharpened bamboo sticks under my finger nails and I would be happy to tell you the combination to my safe and it would not be a lie.
Therefore, I would say yes I believe there probably are circumstances in which torture could be necessary and effective
The problem is that if you agree on killing the killer, then you have no more respect for life than he does! Look at all these anti-abortion advocates so prompt to support capital punishment!
NUTZ!!!
So your solution to being a brutal killing animal is to be a brutal killing animal. That would mean the terrorists have succeeded. When you act like them you are one of them. They want you to be like that to justify themselves and recruit more to like them.
The one thing that should always separate us from them is justice. Justice may be a fluid concept, but the essence of justice is the due process of law and that is the element that separates civilization from barbarity. That due process has nothing to do with being...soft. It simply says we stand on universal principles of morality and ethics that separate us from blood-lust and animal cruelty.
Your post is looking political. You say: "just my thoughts", but when we give our thoughts that are different from yours we're "bleeding hearts", a reference commonly used to show a political color that shows disrespect. I mean what did you want out of this thread? Was it to find others to pump up your views...have a let's get Medieval fest...crank your fists and yell...woof, woof, woof, let's torture the muthas? Our view isn't inferior just because we don't agree with you.
No, it's when you safeguard the rights of the individual, no matter how painful, that the whole of society is reassured of it's rights and keeps faith in civilization. The Rodney King beating in one way was the perfect example. Riots happened because seeing the beating by law enforcement representatives caused the population to lose faith that their segment of society as a whole would be respected. Yes, there were thugs who exploited the opportunity, but ultimately it was a deeper collapse of faith caused by the spark of seeing one person being deprived of his rights.
In his original post Nutz said he would torture after getting all the information that could be had, indicating taking revenge/inflicting sadism is the point.
Your avatar is torturing me...and you're a 5'1, 100lb red head too!!! Ahhh mon Dieu. You don't know how much that hurts....being so far :help:
As I've said, this is true if you behave in the same barbarous way as him trading brutality for brutality. But legal due process is respect for life. Though the judgement may be that he loses his life for his heinous crimes, being legally judged based on universal principle is the opposite of what was done. It's called justice.
:thumb:
Merlot
Merlot, if you read the #1 post it says known terrorist, you may be a bleeding heart to these people but I am not, perhaps you would change your mind if it happens to a family member of yours. Do you have kids? If it was your 8 year old killed would you still be singing this tune? NO. And if we do the torture the terrorists will not think they have won, right now they are thinking what a bunch of pussy ass Americans all they do is say bad boy and put us in prision and feed us well. Torture them, get some info and kill them, end of story.
Grosbaton...who gives a shit about proving one group of people has more regard for human life than another? After we get all pertinent information out of this terrorist he should be euthanized as you would a rabid dog so that 1.) he can harm no one else and 2.) that we are not going to put up with this crap anymore. That is what is important here. There is no need for any pain or torture.
Take a second and study the names of those that have received the death penalty and their sentence has been carried out. Not one of those people has ever harmed anyone else again. And I'll be God Damned if a few years down the road that we see this guy leading Muslim prayer in prison radicalizing other prisoners. Then maybe after prayer he can play a little pick-up soccer or basketball...maybe hit the weights and then go to class after that?
I called on maximum security prisons and I witnessed this. The white guys were playing softball and the black guys were playing pick-up basketball. There was a yard full of guys lifting weights. Imagine that, kill somebody and play softball with 3 square meals for the rest of your life. I witnessed this first hand!
I had to laugh about this. I have always said look at all these pro choice people against capital punishment. They would kill an innocent baby but let a cruel murderer with a record as long as his arm play basketball in Prison for 20-25 years and then get out in 10 years for good behaivior and kill again. Insane!
BTW I am pro choice and pro capital punishment.
Dude,
"Bleeding heart, bleeding heart, bleeding heart." A childish political label. Shows intent. Some just don`t approve of being sadistic.
I withdrew my previous post because I thought it might be unfair. But your continued attitude is we have to see it your way or we`re a "bleeding heart". You want to revel in the idea of torturing this guy, once again using the 8-year-old boy to justify your view that torture for revenge and indulgent satisfaction is acceptable. Well, I say again. Where was your caring for the kids when 20 little 5 year-olds (along with adults) were shot down with what I`ve heard described by witnesses and reports on forensics in the massacre as high impact rounds that ripped their bodies. In 61 posts you showed ZERO concern for children and ZERO empathy for the families...that`s right...not one post by you.
https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...Connecticut-school-massacre&highlight=newtown
Merlot
Again, does not make any sense to me. Either you respect human life 100% or you don't. No ''if'', no ''but''.
Think about this one hypothetical story : a mother wants to abort after 5 weeks pregnancy. She lives in a place where abortion is illegal so she carries on pregnacy and gives birth. The child grows up and happen to turn into a serial sex killer. He gets arrested, judged and sentenced to death penalty...which is legal in the same place he was born...
The only thing i will answer to this thread is i wouldn't mind a real life Punisher, or actually a bunch of them hunting down criminals and killing them. Of course not your general pot dealer or store thief, but real gangster and street gangs murderers and stuff like that. But that is all i would allow. Once they caught, they caught, justice can deal with them... The ones that bother me are the ones that slept trough justice fingers and keep going like nothing. Then when it comes to torturing and all... NO. But i think for some serious acts like terrorist attacks and such, maybe capitol punishment could be re-installed. At the same time , you got to be carefull with that, as it should be under SPECIAL CIRCONSTANCE only.
But this is a delicate subject, we should not even go into that territory.
But this is a delicate subject, we should not even go into that territory.
Merlot, as I stated earlier I probably never saw the post, it happened when I was at a camp in northern Alberta and internet is not always available, it really did bother me so get off the fucking topic just because I did not post. The person that did that should also be slaughtered, there feel better. Now what do you think should happen to the person who killed all those kids? A couple of years in a psyco ward and released in the the public again? As I said he should be dead by now. Our legal system sucks and much harsher sentences should be given in all cases, the percentage of repeat offenders is far too high. I really like the 3 strike law some states have but the people on death row should be dead and once on death row it should happen right after the court hearing. The surviving Boston bomber, give me 1 good reason why taxes should pay to keep this person alive.
Hello NUTZ!
The above is called...covering your backside.
You're being untruthful. You posted 6 times in the duration of the Newtown shootings thread when it was open between 12-14 to 12-17, 2012, and it would have been impossible not to see the Newtown thread since 61 posts were made to bump it to the top at the same time you posted three times in the "Montreal Requiring All Dogs To Be Bilingual". Yup, that one was a funny thread. Obviously you found it far more interesting than the slaughter of 20 tiny children. Such were your priorities at the time. That's fine with me, but why use the murdered boy as a rationale in this case when you chose to ignore the murders of so many other children. :noidea: :nono:
Posting history is a terrible thing to forget.
First you make some gravely erroneous presumptions about my views. Just because I don't agree with your idea of long term torture before and after getting the information you assume I and probably others don't want the death penalty. Wrong!!! The fact that the prisoner did it is incontestable. Fry his ass or hang him...whatever the method is. But do it in a way that provides faith to all of us that the process of law is working, not in a way that promotes vigilante barbarism. My problem with the death penalty is when it involves cases where it's a matter of preponderance of the evidence without absolute proof or reasonably conclusive proof...and attitudes like that in Texas where they say...we don't make mistakes, which is feel good public relations horse crap. The Innocence Project has proven mistake are made.
Sure, we can't constantly worry so much about mistakes in the process of conviction leading to the death penalty all of the time. But some cases badly need reviewing.
Secondly, information is critical to anything. The best reason for keeping him alive is all he can tell us. I was listening to some supposed experts assessment on the skills it takes to make sure one has a working bomb. The prisoner says he learned how on the internet. The expert said it takes practical testing to make sure the bombs will work, plus these guys had a number of bombs and other detonating devices they used against pursuing police that worked pretty well. That sounds like there had to be help on following through with this bombing. Keeping him alive could uncover a lot more and maybe save other 8-year-old boys and their families.
Thirdly, your own proposal was to torture him, heal him, torture him again...and so on. Who was going to pay for all of that...the Society of Benevolent Sadists. :lol:
C'mon bud,
Merlot
We live in a civilized society so prisoners are treated in a civilized and humane manner. What would you prefer? Chaining them to the walls? Maybe daily beatings? Or maybe we should just open some forced labour camps?
This guy will never be leading any prayers in prison. He will never be released into general population and the only people he will ever see again once convicted are his prison guards. He is 19 years old and if he isn't executed, and this is considered a federal crime so the death penalty is on the table, he can expect to spend the next 60 or 70 years of his life in a cage and finally die there. He will spend the rest of his life never knowing the touch of a woman again, or even the pleasure of seeing a woman again. He will have no freedom, no ability to do even the simplest things such as go for a walk or go out to dinner or to sit and chat with friends. Given the choice between such a future and death, I'd prefer death. If you want to punish him, send him to prison. If you want to be merciful, sentence him to death.
I get a laugh out of the people who are crying out saying he should be tortured. Not one of you would have the balls to do it yourself. And please spare me the claims about how tough you are and how you'd have no problem doing it. It's easy to make bullshit claims when you're sitting behind a keyboard. If you don't like the way our justice system works, maybe you should move to North Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia or another such society where you'd fit right in.
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