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Trump Victory: American heading towards Fascism? - Financial Times (London) 11/14/2024

Dave in Phoenix

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This is brief highlights of a very long detailed historical article. The basic point is Europe has a long history of knowing what fascism is such as under Hitler. But the US may not be recognizing it with Trump, since the US has no historical prospective:.

Financial Times Highlights
If the US was once a beacon of liberty and hope to the world’s “huddled masses yearning to breathe free” (in the words engraved on the Statue of Liberty), does the 2024 election imply that a different, perhaps more authoritarian future lies ahead for everyone?

The analogy of choice these days is fascism, not surprisingly perhaps in an era of strongmen in countries such as India, Russia, Turkey and Hungary.

Moreover, Europe’s interwar drift to the authoritarian right threw up not only fascists such as Hitler and Mussolini but other kinds of dictators too: ex-military men, clerics, professors and even kings. All of them opposed liberal democracy but not all were fascist. Some lasted decades, others only months. What their contemporaries asked was not who fitted some textbook definition of fascism but why democracy was in crisis and whether the institutions they had inherited were capable of withstanding the strain.

To assess what the 2024 US election means requires fewer historical analogies or general observations about fascism, and more attentiveness to the specificities of the American political experience, distinctive in crucial ways that help us understand both why the election this month turned out the way it did, and why this is not necessarily the path that others will follow.

It is telling, for instance, that fascism itself does not seem to have mattered very much to Trump’s voters. Not because they liked the idea but because it did not really register. Some have argued in the election’s aftermath that claiming that Trump is a fascist came across to many people as extreme and implausible, and perhaps damaged the Democrats because they suggested voters did not know what they were voting for. For the election was not generally felt to be a referendum on the events of January 6 2021, despite occasional efforts to present it as such, and if Democratic invocations of fascism in the run-up to voting functioned as a kind of warning, it was one that many Americans ignored. In the end, the health of the constitution turned out to matter less than the pocketbook issues they were really concerned about.

This should not have come as a surprise since most people in the US know little about Europe’s violent mid-century. The one historical event they are likely to recognize is the Holocaust, which they associate not with fascism in general but with Hitler, the Nazis and the mass murder of Jews. Since next to no one seriously expects a repeat under President Trump, the impact on voting patterns was small. And because the Holocaust is frequently presented in terms of extreme antisemitism and not racial prejudice in general, it does not offer most Americans an opening to larger questions of scapegoating, anti-migrant sentiment or political violence.

There is a significant divergence here with Europe. Unlike the US, most European nations have had direct experience in living memory of warfare, coups, juntas or forcible seizures of power that have helped forge a consciousness of the fragility of democracy.

In the US, this kind of historical legacy does not exist. The critical consequence of this divergence in historical experiences and memory is political polarization, perhaps the key difference now between the US and other democracies around the world. Although electorates have swung to the right in many parts of Europe in recent years, and although the centre-left is suffering from fragmentation, Europe has not become divided to the same degree as in America.

In short, historical memories that serve to buttress democracy elsewhere are lacking in the US today, while the forces of polarization are unchecked. The world’s view of the US will probably have been altered forever in this election.

Decades of international leadership have left it relatively little touched by the wars and conflicts that have raged around the world. Fascism may not be what awaits it, because fascism was a product of European circumstances in a now bygone era of history. But fascism is not the only test and the sooner this is understood, the better we will be able to orient ourselves in the uncharted territory that lies ahead.
==================================
What is Fascism that the US seems headed for under Trump?
Fascism emerged as a political movement in twentieth century Europe when Benito Mussolini founded the Partito Nazionale Fascista (National Fascist Party) in Italy in 1919. Germany embraced fascism more than any other country. The Nazi government that ruled under Adolf Hitler between 1933 and 1945 was a fascist government.
 
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Fradi

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How many more Trump hate threads do you intend to raise?
Perhaps you could group them all under one.
Nobody cares about the London Financial Times, another woke leftist rag.
England and London have their own problems especially border problems, won’t be long before the same uprising of the voters will kick the ass of all the leftist there as well.
You bring up countries like Hungary. Have you ever been there, do you know anything about it. I do, people there can walk the streets safely anywhere they didn’t allow any illegal immigrants to stay. They give them free transportation to England.
 

Dave in Phoenix

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How many more Trump hate threads do you intend to raise?
Perhaps you could group them all under one.
Nobody cares about the London Financial Times, another woke leftist rag.
England and London have their own problems especially border problems, won’t be long before the same uprising of the voters will kick the ass of all the leftist there as well.
You bring up countries like Hungary. Have you ever been there, do you know anything about it. I do, people there can walk the streets safely anywhere they didn’t allow any illegal immigrants to stay. They give them free transportation to England.
You have your opinions and call names, but you can not dispute the facts of the article.
I started a separate thread because it had nothing to do with the singer thread about Trump not being in the venue named after her. Totally different topic.
Sorry if facts are offensive. So yes, you may be right about Hungary, so I assume you support that country's strongman dictator. Which explains why you favor Trump over the democracy/republic of the US. How about Canada where I think you live not sure where you are.

But if in Canada, why are you so involved here trying to report such a strongman/Dictator, Trump, when Canada has its issues but nothing compared to the takeover of the US by a fascist ideology?
 
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Fradi

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What facts the only facts you have given is that Hitler existed and everything said about him being one of the most evil men in history is true.
Trying to compare Trump to him is ridiculous.
That rag of a newspaper is just another anti Trump woke elitist crap that can’t accept reality.

You are wrong in me supporting Trump I don’t support any politician I am just tired of the Dems woke bullshit and preaching.
They should look inward to see how they lost the support of the people instead of their condescending attitude of still insisting that they are smarter and know better and everybody has to be wrong because they have the facts. Their facts lol.
I believe in any fairly elected politician being given the right to prove his worth.
Biden and Kamala had their chance for. 4 years, they failed miserably, that is not just my opinion but the people who count and voted them out by a huge majority kicking their ass out of the White House, The Senate and the House if that is not a clear message then I don’t know what is.

Yet the Dems still use the same woke bullshit that didn’t work for 4 years. This is what irritates me lol.
The other issue is that we have had this same nonsense on 5-6 threads now for 8 years on Merb with Dems hating on Trump and patting themselves on the back at how brilliant and smart they are.
Well the good news is for them that TDS will be alive and well for another 4 years.

As far as Hungary is concerned Orban is an egotistical prick similar to Trump but on a smaller scale, but he also was fairly elected by a majority and with all his arrogance and huge ego. he has managed to keep the country safe they have a relatively good lifestyle and can walk the streets without fear.
He is nothing like Hitler and neither is Trump. It is a beautiful country and Budapest is a gem comparable to the best cities I have ever visited.
The food is fabulous and so is the wine. They also have amazing looking women and a vibrant escort scene which is legal.

I live in Montreal.
I could ask you the same question you live in the US you are an American, why are you bringing your political beliefs and raising so many hate Trump threads on a Canadian escort review board of all places.
Why not have this discussion with your fellow Dems in the US where it would be much better received.
 
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Dave in Phoenix

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What facts the only facts you have given is that Hitler existed and everything said about him being one of the most evil men in history is true.
Trying to compare Trump to him is ridiculous.
That rag of a newspaper is just another anti Trump woke elitist crap that can’t accept reality.

You are wrong in me supporting Trump I don’t support any politician I am just tired of the Dems woke bullshit and preaching.
They should look inward to see how they lost the support of the people instead of their condescending attitude of still insisting that they are smarter and know better and everybody has to be wrong because they have the facts. Their facts lol.
I believe in any fairly elected politician being given the right to prove his worth.
Biden and Kamala had their chance for. 4 years, they failed miserably, that is not just my opinion but the people who count and voted them out by a huge majority kicking their ass out of the White House, The Senate and the House if that is not a clear message then I don’t know what is.

Yet the Dems still use the same woke bullshit that didn’t work for 4 years. This is what irritates me lol.
The other issue is that we have had this same nonsense on 5-6 threads now for 8 years on Merb with Dems hating on Trump and patting themselves on the back at how brilliant and smart they are.
Well the good news is for them that TDS will be alive and well for another 4 years.

As far as Hungary is concerned Orban is an egotistical prick similar to Trump but on a smaller scale, but he also was fairly elected by a majority and with all his arrogance and huge ego. he has managed to keep the country safe they have a relatively good lifestyle and can walk the streets without fear.
He is nothing like Hitler and neither is Trump. It is a beautiful country and Budapest is a gem comparable to the best cities I have ever visited.
The food is fabulous and so is the wine. They also have amazing looking women and a vibrant escort scene which is legal.

I live in Montreal.
I could ask you the same question you live in the US you are an American, why are you bringing your political beliefs and raising so many hate Trump threads on a Canadian escort review board of all places.
Why not have this discussion with your fellow Dems in the US where it would be much better received.

There are a lot of Canadians talking about Trump here. I stand by the facts not name calling. No one "hates" Trump, just speaking the truth of how he intends to change the US into his dictatorship, which has similar traits and scams as fascism. The London Times is not a liberal "woke"- whatever that dumb silly term is.

I stand for facts not lies and personal attacks vs facts on the legitimate factual news agencies.
 

Fradi

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What facts are you talking about that they think Trump is a fascist dictator similar to Hitler.
That is what you call facts.
How many people were killed over race or religion that he was responsible for when he was President the last time, was it similar to Hitler lol.
How many political enemies were assassinated when he was in power. Did he start a world war.
Still want to compare him to Hitler or is it some woke bullshit by a rag that is not worth reading.

Yes many Canadians are interested in Trump or whoever is the President because as they say when the US sneezes we catch a cold.
The U S is not only our neighbour but the largest trading partner and has the largest outside influence on our economy not to mention our protector and deterrent because our military is not worth shit.

Every Dem hates Trump that is another one of those facts that they are in denial with.
Don’t really blame them he devastated the Democratic Party in this election from which they will need many years to recover.
Anyway we are not going to convince each other and we will continue to disagree,

So let’s turn our attention to what this board is for, pussy.
Hope you have an amazing time on your pending visit to Montreal the ladies are still amazing and there are more than enough to choose from.
 
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CLOUD 500

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There are a lot of Canadians talking about Trump here. I stand by the facts not name calling. No one "hates" Trump, just speaking the truth of how he intends to change the US into his dictatorship, which has similar traits and scams as fascism. The London Times is not a liberal "woke"- whatever that dumb silly term is.

I stand for facts not lies and personal attacks vs facts on the legitimate factual news agencies.
Lol What facts? Like calling Trump a Fascist and comparing him to Hitler? Are you serious? Lol You got no idea what facts are, you are just having a meltdown because Trump won. Explain to us how is he a fascist? America is one of the freest countries in the world and it was so under a Trump first presidency. Did Trump have a totalitarian control of USA? Was there arbitrary arrest and imprisonment? Are there concentration camps? Is there mass murder of a single race? Can you even answer yes to one of these things? You are doing what far-left governments do, use alarmist ideas and lies to spread your way of thinking. Trump won via a democratic process. The people have spoken. America is still a great country and it is a land of opportunity. Canada is going to a shit hole under Trudope, we got a lieing corrupt sleazeball traitor as PM. We got more serious issues here then Trump being elected. People in the USA had enough of the nonsense wokeness from the Democratic party and next year the people in Canada will kick Trudope to the curb. You guys have a great system where a president can only run two terms, after four years Trump will be gone to never return. In Canada, a lieing underhanded sneaky weasel like Trudope can stay in power indefinitely.
 
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Dave in Phoenix

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Lol What facts? Like calling Trump a Fascist and comparing him to Hitler? Are you serious? Lol You got no idea what facts are, you are just having a meltdown because Trump won. Explain to us how is he a fascist? America is one of the freest countries in the world and it was so under a Trump first presidency. Did Trump have a totalitarian control of USA? Was there arbitrary arrest and imprisonment? Are there concentration camps? Is there mass murder of a single race? Can you even answer yes to one of these things? You are doing what far-left governments do, use alarmist ideas and lies to spread your way of thinking. Trump won via a democratic process. The people have spoken. America is still a great country and it is a land of opportunity. Canada is going to a shit hole under Trudope, we got a lieing corrupt sleazeball traitor as PM. We got more serious issues here then Trump being elected. People in the USA had enough of the nonsense wokeness from the Democratic party and next year the people in Canada will kick Trudope to the curb. You guys have a great system where a president can only run two terms, after four years Trump will be gone to never return. In Canada, a lieing underhanded sneaky weasel like Trudope can stay in power indefinitely.
What exactly in the article is not factual??? I think if you look at history, what they said will be proven true unless you go to "alternative facts" and try and re-write history to your liking, like the MAGA that gets slavey history out of schools wanting history to show slavery was good for blacks since taught them skills as one MAGA person said.
 
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Fradi

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You sight an article that lists some facts about European history, fascism and Hitler when all along their intent and probably yours as well was to compare and tell people that Trump is the next Hitler, and these are your so called facts.
You are the one trying to rewrite history and not accepting that Trump won in a free election by overwhelming numbers and the people kicked the whole woke bullshit of the Dems to the curb.

Now you are insinuating that all MAGA are racist and are against blacks. No they want to be able to feed their family and walk the streets safely and not have their daughters and wives in the same bathroom and showers as men identifying as women. Many blacks are in total agreement with this.
Yes there is still racism in the US and everywhere else in the world but the US has had a black President, now they had a black woman running for President there were more blacks men and women voting for Trump than ever before so that argument goes out the window also.

This same woke nonsense was tried all through the campaign by the Harris crowd. It fell on deaf ears it didn’t fool the people they have spoken, get over it.
 
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Dave in Phoenix

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You sight an article that lists some facts about European history, fascism and Hitler when all along their intent and probably yours as well was to compare and tell people that Trump is the next Hitler, and these are your so called facts.
You are the one trying to rewrite history and not accepting that Trump won in a free election by overwhelming numbers and the people kicked the whole woke bullshit of the Dems to the curb.

Now you are insinuating that all MAGA are racist and are against blacks. No they want to be able to feed their family and walk the streets safely and not have their daughters and wives in the same bathroom and showers as men identifying as women. Many blacks are in total agreement with this.
Yes there is still racism in the US and everywhere else in the world but the US has had a black President, now they had a black woman running for President there were more blacks men and women voting for Trump than ever before so that argument goes out the window also.

This same woke nonsense was tried all through the campaign by the Harris crowd. It fell on deaf ears it didn’t fool the people they have spoken, get over it.
Again the "We the People" popular vote was by 1.9%, hardly any landslide. You have your views, so there is no use discussing them further. All you are doing is defending and attacking the same old arguments. Why do you care so much since you're in Canada? We are stuck down here with our Dictatorship - no hate just facts
 
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Fradi

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Again the "We the People" popular vote was by 1.9%, hardly any landslide. You have your views, so there is no use discussing them further. All you are doing is defending and attacking the same old arguments. Why do you care so much since you're in Canada? We are stuck down here with our Dictatorship - no hate just facts
Popular vote is not the rules the US plays by and you know it, if you guys don’t like it fix it, the power of the people is infinite.
Why do I care ? because we are stuck with an even worse woke leftist nut case called Trudeau.
Hopefully he will get his walking papers the same way as the Dems got theirs and to make matters worse I actually voted for him twice, that will never happen again. Yes I have buyers remorse big time, but I will live with it until election time without having a meltdown.
 

nothinghere

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From the WSJ Today..Behind a paywall so I copy paste directly.
This DOGE not look like fascism.
A lot of NGO's gonna get the boot.
If this goes through without a nuclear war omg!
This gonna make Canadians wake up and also Trudeau.
But...Listen to Trudeau in below video before reading DOGE.
Trudeau G20 "Building a just world and a sustainable Planet"...as they provoke nuclear war.
War is far worst than Fascism.

Trudeau We are not going to panic but continue to be focused

Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy: The DOGE Plan to Reform Government​

Following the Supreme Court’s guidance, we’ll reverse a decadeslong executive power grab.​



By
Elon Musk
and
Vivek Ramaswamy
Nov. 20, 2024 12:33 pm ET

2e528fc665889c07ccea7296c851afc32f5c9649.avif
DAVID GOTHARD
Our nation was founded on the basic idea that the people we elect run the government. That isn’t how America functions today. Most legal edicts aren’t laws enacted by Congress but “rules and regulations” promulgated by unelected bureaucrats—tens of thousands of them each year. Most government enforcement decisions and discretionary expenditures aren’t made by the democratically elected president or even his political appointees but by millions of unelected, unappointed civil servants within government agencies who view themselves as immune from firing thanks to civil-service protections.
This is antidemocratic and antithetical to the Founders’ vision. It imposes massive direct and indirect costs on taxpayers. Thankfully, we have a historic opportunity to solve the problem. On Nov. 5, voters decisively elected Donald Trump with a mandate for sweeping change, and they deserve to get it.
President Trump has asked the two of us to lead a newly formed Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, to cut the federal government down to size. The entrenched and ever-growing bureaucracy represents an existential threat to our republic, and politicians have abetted it for too long. That’s why we’re doing things differently. We are entrepreneurs, not politicians. We will serve as outside volunteers, not federal officials or employees. Unlike government commissions or advisory committees, we won’t just write reports or cut ribbons. We’ll cut costs.
We are assisting the Trump transition team to identify and hire a lean team of small-government crusaders, including some of the sharpest technical and legal minds in America. This team will work in the new administration closely with the White House Office of Management and Budget. The two of us will advise DOGE at every step to pursue three major kinds of reform: regulatory rescissions, administrative reductions and cost savings. We will focus particularly on driving change through executive action based on existing legislation rather than by passing new laws. Our North Star for reform will be the U.S. Constitution, with a focus on two critical Supreme Court rulings issued during President Biden’s tenure.
In West Virginia v. Environmental Protection Agency (2022), the justices held that agencies can’t impose regulations dealing with major economic or policy questions unless Congress specifically authorizes them to do so. In Loper Bright v. Raimondo (2024), the court overturned the Chevron doctrine and held that federal courts should no longer defer to federal agencies’ interpretations of the law or their own rulemaking authority. Together, these cases suggest that a plethora of current federal regulations exceed the authority Congress has granted under the law.
DOGE will work with legal experts embedded in government agencies, aided by advanced technology, to apply these rulings to federal regulations enacted by such agencies. DOGE will present this list of regulations to President Trump, who can, by executive action, immediately pause the enforcement of those regulations and initiate the process for review and rescission. This would liberate individuals and businesses from illicit regulations never passed by Congress and stimulate the U.S. economy.
When the president nullifies thousands of such regulations, critics will allege executive overreach. In fact, it will be correcting the executive overreach of thousands of regulations promulgated by administrative fiat that were never authorized by Congress. The president owes lawmaking deference to Congress, not to bureaucrats deep within federal agencies. The use of executive orders to substitute for lawmaking by adding burdensome new rules is a constitutional affront, but the use of executive orders to roll back regulations that wrongly bypassed Congress is legitimate and necessary to comply with the Supreme Court’s recent mandates. And after those regulations are fully rescinded, a future president couldn’t simply flip the switch and revive them but would instead have to ask Congress to do so.
A drastic reduction in federal regulations provides sound industrial logic for mass head-count reductions across the federal bureaucracy. DOGE intends to work with embedded appointees in agencies to identify the minimum number of employees required at an agency for it to perform its constitutionally permissible and statutorily mandated functions. The number of federal employees to cut should be at least proportionate to the number of federal regulations that are nullified: Not only are fewer employees required to enforce fewer regulations, but the agency would produce fewer regulations once its scope of authority is properly limited. Employees whose positions are eliminated deserve to be treated with respect, and DOGE’s goal is to help support their transition into the private sector. The president can use existing laws to give them incentives for early retirement and to make voluntary severance payments to facilitate a graceful exit.
Conventional wisdom holds that statutory civil-service protections stop the president or even his political appointees from firing federal workers. The purpose of these protections is to protect employees from political retaliation. But the statute allows for “reductions in force” that don’t target specific employees. The statute further empowers the president to “prescribe rules governing the competitive service.” That power is broad. Previous presidents have used it to amend the civil service rules by executive order, and the Supreme Court has held—in Franklin v. Massachusetts (1992) and Collins v. Yellen (2021) that they weren’t constrained by the Administrative Procedures Act when they did so. With this authority, Mr. Trump can implement any number of “rules governing the competitive service” that would curtail administrative overgrowth, from large-scale firings to relocation of federal agencies out of the Washington area. Requiring federal employees to come to the office five days a week would result in a wave of voluntary terminations that we welcome: If federal employees don’t want to show up, American taxpayers shouldn’t pay them for the Covid-era privilege of staying home.
Finally, we are focused on delivering cost savings for taxpayers. Skeptics question how much federal spending DOGE can tame through executive action alone. They point to the 1974 Impoundment Control Act, which stops the president from ceasing expenditures authorized by Congress. Mr. Trump has previously suggested this statute is unconstitutional, and we believe the current Supreme Court would likely side with him on this question. But even without relying on that view, DOGE will help end federal overspending by taking aim at the $500 billion plus in annual federal expenditures that are unauthorized by Congress or being used in ways that Congress never intended, from $535 million a year to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and $1.5 billion for grants to international organizations to nearly $300 million to progressive groups like Planned Parenthood.
The federal government’s procurement process is also badly broken. Many federal contracts have gone unexamined for years. Large-scale audits conducted during a temporary suspension of payments would yield significant savings. The Pentagon recently failed its seventh consecutive audit, suggesting that the agency’s leadership has little idea how its annual budget of more than $800 billion is spent. Critics claim that we can’t meaningfully close the federal deficit without taking aim at entitlement programs like Medicare and Medicaid, which require Congress to shrink. But this deflects attention from the sheer magnitude of waste, fraud and abuse that nearly all taxpayers wish to end—and that DOGE aims to address by identifying pinpoint executive actions that would result in immediate savings for taxpayers.
With a decisive electoral mandate and a 6-3 conservative majority on the Supreme Court, DOGE has a historic opportunity for structural reductions in the federal government. We are prepared for the onslaught from entrenched interests in Washington. We expect to prevail. Now is the moment for decisive action. Our top goal for DOGE is to eliminate the need for its existence by July 4, 2026—the expiration date we have set for our project. There is no better birthday gift to our nation on its 250th anniversary than to deliver a federal government that would make our Founders proud.
 
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Womaniser

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What exactly in the article is not factual??? I think if you look at history, what they said will be proven true unless you go to "alternative facts" and try and re-write history to your liking, like the MAGA that gets slavey history out of schools wanting history to show slavery was good for blacks since taught them skills as one MAGA person said.

Corrupt House Republicans refused today to release the report on Mat Gaetz ! Does that prove that he is unfit to be DOJ boss ?
I let you decide !
 
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NFLMEL

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What was so bad in the US during his last term? Will he be a bit pissed due to the 8 years of media witch hunts, I would be. Some people or groups should be worried, hope they didn't expect to trash him and no repercussions when he won.
 
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Womaniser

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What was so bad in the US during his last term? Will he be a bit pissed due to the 8 years of media witch hunts, I would be. Some people or groups should be worried, hope they didn't expect to trash him and no repercussions when he won.

When you're so much subject of witch hunts perhaps it is because you're a real witch or worse !
 
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