What Is The Current Market Definition of HDH in Montreal?

[EagerBeaver]

We have all seen the market change rather dramatically in Montreal since 2002. The heyday of the US dollar fetching $1.60 CDN are long gone, possibly never to return. The halcyon days of getting the Hyatt on Priceline for $50 or less also appear long gone, never to return.

So do we now need to reanalyze the threshold for calling someone a high dollar hottie (HDH) as opposed to a low dollar looker (LDL)? I think so. More recently this discussion has even come up with an escort I have seen, who was clearly HDH material but did not really know what that meant and may have had a difference of opinion on the matter with her agency.

Is the benchmark of $300/hour from the glory days something that is firmly in our rear view mirror? Is $200 the new benchmark? $250? What do you all have to say?

 

[Aeolus]

Given the number of great looking and performing women who charge under $200 in Montreal, I have no idea why someone would pay more than $200, especially in this economy. You're not paying extra for better pussy or better looks; you're basically paying extra for exclusivity. You're less likely to have to compete with other Johns for a woman's time, if she charges more than she's worth. If money is no object to you, maybe this exclusivity is worth it. It's not worth it to me. Actually, with the glut of girls on the market, how many guys have a problem seeing the ones they want to see, anyway? $200 is my upper limit, and I won't tip anyone at that price. Girls who charge less than that can get up to that from me, if they give me good service. I work hard for my money, and I'm not so grotesque that $200 isn't more than adequate compensation for someone to fuck me. Actually, it would be nice if they had a sliding scale so the less disgusting you are, the less you pay and vice versa.

 

[CS Martin]

Frankly, I'm not too sure that many of the current SPs are HDH class, as some used to view that pricepoint. I've not punched the Montreal ticket in about 2 years now, but I've seen very few represented here who meet that standard recently.

 

[johnmbot]

"What Is The Current Market Definition of HDH in Montreal?"

obviously it's $ based, but a good follow up ?'n is "what do you expect from an hdh?"

my answer:

she must be as hot looking as me, as healthy & fit as me, as intelligent/intellectual & witty as me, as well-traveled as me, as well informed about the world as me, as willing to pay as much for me as i do for her.

other than that, i don't expect much at all.

 

[Royal]

she must be as hot looking as me, .... i don't expect much at all.

As hot looking as you.... you're right, you don't expect much at all haha

 

[EagerBeaver]

It seems from some of the prior posts that not everyone undertood the intention of my thread. I am not asking about whether the ladies available at HDH rates are HDH worthy. What I am asking is, assuming a lady is HDH worthy, what is the threshold rate at which she ceases being market rate and starts being considered HDH. That is what I am asking you to vote on. The point at which you feel you are paying HDH rates, regardless of whether you feel as though you are getting HDH quality or not.

 

[johnmbot]

As hot looking as you.... you're right, you don't expect much at all haha

heh heh...

 

[Merlot]

We have all seen the market change rather dramatically in Montreal since 2002. The heyday of the US dollar fetching $1.60 CDN are long gone, possibly never to return. The halcyon days of getting the Hyatt on Priceline for $50 or less also appear long gone, never to return.

So do we now need to reanalyze the threshold for calling someone a high dollar hottie (HDH) as opposed to a low dollar looker (LDL)? I think so. More recently this discussion has even come up with an escort I have seen, who was clearly HDH material but did not really know what that meant and may have had a difference of opinion on the matter with her agency.

Is the benchmark of $300/hour from the glory days something that is firmly in our rear view mirror? Is $200 the new benchmark? $250? What do you all have to say?

Well,

Your question has to be to Americans since the effect of the change in currency value rates has much more impact on them. With the value of the American dollar now about 35% less against the Canadian dollar the equivalent of the old HDH standard of $450/2 hours or $250/hour would have to mirror the drop in the value pf our (Americans) dollar. If one considers it's current value compared to the past, factors in the drop, then considers how tight most have had to be be with their money in view of the current economy then even $200/hour seems like an excessive HDH expense compared to the past. So would in an Americans view under these standards most agencies these days are HDH.

But then one has to consider that Americans were experiencing a very, very fortunate surge in the value of our currency back then that was unsustainable. Maybe HDH in 2003 should have been between $350 and $400/hour considering the very high exchange rate and what our dollar could buy back then. In view of that standard maybe HDH is now legitimately $250.

It really all depends on what standards are fair considering the current dollar value and the affordability of an HDH versus what the average client can afford to spend. But it sure isn't over $300 today.

However, if the question is taken from a Canadian perspective, it changes everything because there would seem to be far less extreme relative change in the value of their dollar. As a Canadian I would say $300, as an American adjusting to the huge drop in value of our dollar in Canada...significantly less.

That's my view.

Cheers,

Merlot

 

[Kansas Frank]

For me, between $300 and $350 for a real HDH. Given that lozy economic conditions in the good old USofA, I would treat myself to a real HDH on my birthday. For $350, she better be very intelligent, well read and show up with an exceptionally positive attitude and make me feel like a king.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Very interesting and disparate opinions on this issue! 7 years ago my answer would have been $300 but now I don't know, and that is why I started the poll........

 

[hungry101]

Aren't these numbers low? Victoria Joie gets 660$ for 1.5 sensual tryst. Lilly Lombard is getting something crazy like 1000$ to see her. I think a lot of agency girls that are HDH are doing the 2 hour minimum.

BTW-In the southern states of the US I would say 400$+ is HDH. the average Indy will ask 250$-300$ and the average agency will ask 200-250$

 

[EagerBeaver]

hungry101,

The poll question asks about the minimum threshold for HDH, not the median or average. As was explained in my prior posts.

 

[hungry101]

hungry101,

The poll question asks about the minimum threshold for HDH, not the median or average. As was explained in my prior posts.

Yes this is not exactly what you asked for. My answer to your question is that i do not know for sure. My opinion is anything over the going rate of 160-200$. So I consider 250$ as HDH

I have been asking the question however, what do you get extra for an HDH?

 

[EagerBeaver]

I have been asking the question however, what do you get extra for an HDH?

Exclusivity - meaning less clients, and a girl who has been less serviced on that day. And in some cases you get a hotter babe. But that is not the focus of this thread. The focus of this thread is on HDH pricing at its threshold levels. Once you identify that a lady is a proper HDH candidate, where should she be priced in today's market?

 

[YoungBob]

Is the benchmark of $300/hour from the glory days something that is firmly in our rear view mirror? Is $200 the new benchmark? $250? What do you all have to say?

What Is The Current Market Definition of HDH in Montreal?

You are probably going to get as many different answers as there are hobbyists... As for myself, I would say 225$, but that's only because I'm a cheap bastard...

Seriously! Anything over 200$ is out of my league. I always go for 2 hours sessions so that's 400$ + the room + drinks + chocolates + that little pill + tip... So we are talking about 500$ for two hours of fun... I honestly can't go any higher. Of course, if it's an Incall, I might go to 450$

I would say that that thresold depends on many factors: How thick is your wallet, How often do you indulge, how badly you want to meet with that particular girl, among other things.

That being said, I probably am going to break my own rule... I REALLY want to meet with Jasmine (the original). Her fee is 220$, so that'll bring the session in the 550$ range... Oh well...

YoungBob

 

[Rex Kramer]

Is the benchmark of $300/hour from the glory days something that is firmly in our rear view mirror? Is $200 the new benchmark? $250? What do you all have to say?

I would say $300 per hour is still the benchmark for the threshold of calling someone a HDH. The hourly rate would be lower for multiple hours. Years ago when there was an active HDH market with agencies like IN, French companions, Aleeva and Friends, etc. there was a distinctive gap between the HDH market and the LDL market in terms of pricing, service, and quality of ladies in general. With the pricing of the general market in the $150 to $200 range these days, and $220 being tested, $250 is just not enough of a gap to start the HDH threshold.

Assuming that $300 is the benchmark, is there an active HDH market in Montreal? I would argue no. The HDH agencies I mentioned earlier are all gone. MGF is sputtering and ladies are migrating to MMM. FKS and L&S are flying under the radar if they are flying at all. There are a few HDH independents but they are on the fringe of the market. Not to pick on L&S in particular, one of their ladies was touring in the U.S. recently and advertised on backpage.com with a full face picture of the lady, a very attractive lady I must add. My take is that L&S has not built up enough of a customer base of Americans to keep their ladies fully booked when they tour in the U.S. Gone are the days when IN had a customer base in the U.S. to keep sending their ladies there.

Yes, gone are the days when the green buck was good for $1.60CAN. Gone are the days when Hyatt could be had for $42 a night. Gone are the days when I could spurge once in a while on an HDH and feel that it is worth the money. I have not paid more than $200 for an hour for a very long time, but if someone like Jessy/Melissa is available again, I would gladly see her at the HDH rate. Last I saw her, her rate was $450 and I felt I got the worth of every penny - runway model looks, face and body, as unreliably and emotionally as any woman, yet down to earth and know how to please a man in bed as good as anyone out there. Gone is Jessy/Melissa.

Give me a Jessy/Melissa, and I will gladly pay the HDH rate.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Rex,

I totally agree with your analysis. However I think Jessy/Melissa was a "freak of nature" to the escorting business much like Michael Jordan was a freak of nature on the basketball court. I have never before or since in my 10 years as an active hobbyist laid eyes on a woman as beautiful as Jessy/Melissa when I met her 3 times in 2005 at $450/hour. She remains, despite her legendary unreliability, the best combination of looks and service I have ever experienced in an escort either in Canada or the USA, including a number of 4 figure per hour ladies I have seen in NYC. However, Jessy/Melissa was a rarity. We may not see another one like her in the next 10 years, or ever.

I saw a lady back in July, Brittany of XXXtase, who was close to the Jessy/Melissa level. She was HDH in all aspects in my opinion. She was $200/2 hour minimum and well worth it in my opinion. I would actually pay more to see her again if I could, but I don't know whether she has even worked at all since July. But, I agree with you and CS Martin that the true HDH calibre ladies are very scarce these days. Back in the heyday of the HDH Revolution 2002-2005 or so, there was a lot of money to be made because of the high exchange rate and US hobbyists coming into Montreal and paying those HDH rates. The money being made enabled HDH agencies to recruit these ladies with greater ease. As noted earlier in the thread, the fall of the US dollar has in some measure contributed to the decline of the HDH agency. The HDH agencies cannot recruit anyone good if there is not enough bookings and no money to be made. That is the bottom line.

It bothers me quite a bit, because I believe that I got spoiled in 2002-2005 and I keep wanting to go back in time and I can't. In addition to Jessy/Melissa whom I wish I could have seen more than 3 times to experience more things with her, there was Megan of IN, whom I would say was second after Jessy/Melissa among the ladies I saw in that era. I only saw Megan once, and had the opportunity to see her other times as well. There were many other lost opportunities, and I cannot go back in time to seize them. All I can do is look forward. But my meeting with Brittany of XXXtase in July did give me some hope that those kinds of ladies are still out there, perhaps in smaller numbers, thus making the search much more difficult and daunting. I am up for the challenge, however.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I voted for $250. This is still Montreal, after all, where you can still see a quality sp for $150 and up. We're still coming out of a recession, and until things get back to where they were 4 years or so ago, i won't vote for anything more than the amount i voted for.

I saw many true HDH ladies when i first began hobbying, which was in the beginning of the millenium. I mostly would see ladies from the top two HDH agencies at the time, Allissa Mtl & Montreal Girlfriends. There was also an agency called "Exxxclusive", but i never saw any of their ladies. Most or all of the ladies employed by Allissa were 'true' HDH material. Most of the Mtl Girlfriends ladies were, but there were a few exceptions. Today, those 'exceptions' would be found working for $160-180, and many ladies in the $180-200 range today would be considerably superior to them.

Back in those days, i thought the hot-looking girls who offered great services only worked for those two agencies. My guess is that i didn't know better & girls as hot were working for the lower end agencies. The internet was still fairly new at the time, and i'd regularly go through Le Journal de Montreal looking for those yet undiscovered gems. I started hearing through back channels that i should see so-and-so and on many occasions, their agencies would only advertise in the newspaper. I'm thinking of Les Filles de M. Jacques, Fantasme, XXXtreme & Maximum, among others. I can't recall if First Time advertised in the newspaper or not. Let we not forget Asservissante, which had been in operation for a year or two before i finally decided to give them a try. Once i got a taste of the lower priced agencies, i rarely came back to the HDH side. I was hooked! Not only could i see hot young women (and not as pretentious as many of the HDH ladies) who offered top-end services, i could see two or more for the price of a single HDH lady! Heck, there was a time i'd do duos for $200 a shot.....for both girls!

Back in those days, there were quite a few quality independents. I did see a few, and i wouldn't hesitate to pay $400 or 450 for two hours again....they were worth every penny! I could name at least five or six top independents that were worth whatever you paid for in order to see them. The indy market was thriving, and there was a time many agency ladies were considering going the indy route since there was a lot of $$ to be made with the money going directly to them instead of sharing it with a third party. I can't say that the indy market is thriving today, but i'm sure there are a few who's phone doesn't stop ringing.

Times have indeed changed. The internet has become the norm for many agencies/indys in the business today. Few sps from the past are still active today, and it could also be said that many of the known 'johns' from the internet in those days have went on to better & bigger things, or are simply flying under the radar. The state of the economy in both the US & Canada has also had a considerable effect on the business (including tourism), and i'm sure there are many other factors which have caused the changes in the industry.

However, one thing hasn't changed. Montreal is still the top place to hobby in North America. No other city on this continent comes close. And that's one of the main reasons why many of us still visit Montreal & have fallen in love with the city.

 

[hungry101]

However, one thing hasn't changed. Montreal is still the top place to hobby in North America. No other city on this continent comes close. And that's one of the main reasons why many of us still visit Montreal & have fallen in love with the city.

Amen brother Holliday, Amen. If I would have known Montreal existed 20 years ago I would have never gotten marrierd! Ever!

 

[EagerBeaver]

I am very interested to see that the poll illustrates widely divergent opinion on what price point starts the threshold for HDH. In my mind this was a very open question in the current market, and the poll results confirm my belief in that regard. So the HDH agency owners, and/or the market agency owners who are pricing girls in their stable they deem to be of HDH calibre, will have to be very careful in establishing the opening price.

I am assuming most of the participants in the poll are out of towners, because not too many of the locals are sampling HDH offerings on a regular basis. Other than Cloudsurf I really can't think of any local hobbyists who have seen more than 5 or so true HDH ladies.