What should the NFL do to Michael Vick if he's found guilty?

[nacho]

Hang the guilty bastard!!

 

[korbel]

Profile.

Hello all,

Regarding the cruelty Vick inflicted on those dogs, it is telling that once of the key FBI profile traits for serial killers is cruelty to animals and a malicious disregard for suffering.

Disgraceful,

Korbel

 

[eastender]

Insightful Article

An insightful article about the Michael Vick saga:

http://www.tsn.ca/tsn_talent/columnists/chris_schultz/?id=216640

Chris Schultz is a former NFL/CFL offensive lineman turned commentator, columnist.

A interesting subpoint,barely mentionned, in the article is that football players become hardened to pain developing a mindset that accepts pain in extreme form as part of life, not only their pain but pain inflicted on other living beings around them.

 

[korbel]

Excellent

This is exactly the problem - people are treating him as if he already is a serial killer when people talk about lifetime bans etc.

Hell you can beat the crap out of your wife ( a much worse offense to me ) and not be banned. Or be an accessory to murder (Ray Lewis - NFL) or rape (Kobe- NBA or Mike tyson- boxing) and either not get an additional ban or simply get nothing at all.

As dispicable as this is (and I agree it is all of that) prior to May of this year Dog fighting was only a misdemeanor in Georgia.

Hello Equanimity,

An EXCELLENT point. That is why I have generally felt that once he pays for his animal abuse offenses he should not be banned from football. But the element of alleged gambling brings into question his integrity directly relating to the game. I am not sure what the depth of his involvement in this issue is, but if he is delving into this activity in any way connected to his reliability on the field or effect on the team then it is now a valid area of concern that affects his continued place in the sport. Had Lewis, Kobe, or Tyson been proven to be involved in gambling on their sport they probably would have been out permanently. It waits to be proven how Vick might be involved in gambling, but this is a real threat to him if there is something to it.

Wondering,

Korbel

 

[korbel]

I disagree not a good point at all, wrong is wrong. Any type of violent act on people or animals is wrong plain and simple. We live in an society built on making excuses for the actions of others. It is high time on certain types of crimes such as murder, rape, abuse of woman and children, home invasions and yes cruelty to animals that the people who commits the crimes pay for them and not get the slap on the wrist that so many feel they should get. In my own opinion what ever Vick gets, he will be getting off to easy.

Hello Daringly,

So by implication, in view of the likely sentence Vick is about to get, you don't think 1-3 years in prison and the loss of 23-69 million dollars in lost salary is quite enough huh. Maybe hanging, drawing, and quartering with the odor du jour of roasting entrails is suitable. Yes, I know I'm being ridiculous with the last part. But he didn't commit "rape, abuse of woman and children, home invasions". Of course abuse of animals is sick. But what is a just sentence for you...endless suffering? C'mon, I love animals too, but sentence the guy justly acording to the law then that's it.

Justice not damnation,

Korbel

 

[korbel]

My position.

Hi Korbel,

I guess the difference between you and i on this issue is, you see his sentence as being harsh and i see his sentence as being light. Part of the problem in north america is we are not tough on crime and the criminal element of society knows that can do the crime but get very little time.

With me this is not a pick on Vick thing. I would have no problem with this type of crime as vicious as it was for him or anyone else to get a minimum of 10 years in jail. I do not feel one bit sorry for him, not a bit. When he gets out he will live the life of a millionaire.(oh boo hoo) He did the crime fuck him.

Now when it comes to murders, home invasions and so on lock people up and throw away the key, they would get no sympathy from me. I suspect the large bleeding heart segment of our society will shed enough tears for them without me having to waste any. I firmly believe that the minimum sentence should be greatly increased for many different types of crimes.

Hello Daringly,

No, I don't see the sentence as being harsh. But it is a lot harsher than many who have done worse have gotten. Where is the proportion? As for that "bleeding heart" stuff, when I see a crime I don't start with...oh he had a bad life...or...lynch the filthy animal. I believe in proportionate justice. Of course how you measure the scale of proportion is a critical point. But just for the sake of argument I don't think what he did is equivalent to a murder or manslaughter. As one person pointed out, up until recently it was only a misdemeanor. I am not saying he shouldn't be punished severely. If the law says 5, 10, 20, or even 50 years then that's it...debt paid. But to insist that anyone keep paying forever would seem to put the law and society in the role of being cruel and inhuman. As for whether he should be able to play football after serving his time, in my view it's the gambling issue that would remain relevant, not the crime he has paid for. But you need not worry too much anyway. He will always carry a stigma, and that is enough extra punishment to deal with without a ban.

Justice not eternal persecution,

Korbel

 

[Dee]

One of the ironies involved in the animal protection field is that often the animals seised by those protecting them are then "put to sleep" by them.

 

[korbel]

Irony...hell yeah.

One of the ironies involved in the animal protection field is that often the animals seised by those protecting them are then "put to sleep" by them.

Hello Dee,

One wonders in this case if the cure wasn't worse than the disease. Of course it's supposed to be kinder to euthanize them than to let them "suffer"...right??? No crime in that...huh.

Hmmmm,

Korbel

 

[Dee]

In this situation the way that Vick and his buddies handled these dogs it is highly unlikely that they would have made suitable pets. Once again lets not blame other people for this, lets put the blame where it belongs with Vick and the people who trained the dogs for this barbaric act. Remember lets not continue to make excuses for criminals.

It's an observation not an excuse.

 

[Dee]

Sorry Dee,

You are correct, i quoted your comment but my answer was directed towards Korbel's response not your quote. I should have quoted Korbel's response not yours. I do agree that it does quite often happens for one reason or the other that animals get put down in these situations, sometimes it is for the best because the animal is in pain.

Thanks Daringly.

 

[master_bates]

I was a big Vick fan but I'm happy that the nfl put in the rule while suspended you cant play for any other football leagues especially the cfl!!

Whatever happend to Jason Williams the ex nba player that shot and killed a limo driver by accident in his home?

 

[Esco!]

Dogs bred for fighting have only one thing in their future: death.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/23/dog.fighting/index.html

.

 

[jippprock]

I was a big Vick fan but I'm happy that the nfl put in the rule while suspended you cant play for any other football leagues especially the cfl!!

Whatever happend to Jason Williams the ex nba player that shot and killed a limo driver by accident in his home?

You got it wrong I think. The CFL does not accept any player who is under suspension by another league. This is essentially "the Ricky Williams' rule".

 

[korbel]

Ditto

Sorry Dee,

You are correct, i quoted your comment but my answer was directed towards Korbel's response not your quote. I should have quoted Korbel's response not yours. I do agree that it does quite often happens for one reason or the other that animals get put down in these situations, sometimes it is for the best because the animal is in pain.

Hello guys,

My response was also just an observation of the irony. I see no to excuse Vick's actions in any way and never have.

Sad though,

Korbel

 

[Esco!]

NFL suspends Vick indefinitely

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/24/michael.vick/index.html

 

[eastender]

The Gambling Issue

NFL suspends Vick indefinitely

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/24/michael.vick/index.html

Both sides seem to be very concerned about all aspects of the gambling issue.

From the NFL perspective it looks to be the main focus. Michael Vick seems to have tried very hard to get this element removed from the plea bargain.

 

[korbel]

Both sides seem to be very concerned about all aspects of the gambling issue.

From the NFL perspective it looks to be the main focus. Michael Vick seems to have tried very hard to get this element removed from the plea bargain.

Hello Eastender,

Now this seems to put it all in proper order:

"The commissioner said Vick's admitted conduct was "not only illegal but also cruel and reprehensible." Even if he didn't personally place bets, Goodell said, "your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL player contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player."

But a permanent ban...not yet at least.

Toodles,

Korbel

 

[eastender]

Historical Perspective

Hello Eastender,

Now this seems to put it all in proper order:

"The commissioner said Vick's admitted conduct was "not only illegal but also cruel and reprehensible." Even if he didn't personally place bets, Goodell said, "your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL player contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player."

But a permanent ban...not yet at least.

Toodles,

Korbel

Billy Taylor and Don Gallinger two above average NHL players were permanently banned from the NHL for betting on games in the late forties.

The NBA permanently banned Alex Groza and a number of other college players involved in the point shavind scandels of 1951.

I realize times change - NFL precedence with Karras and Hornung in 1963,
but the key issue is very different this time.

Funding the betting is the key phrase. Lending money to someone so they may bet is one thing.Having someone place a proxy bet for you is another. Funding a bookmaking operation is many levels above the previous two.

If it is the last alternative I have doubts that Michael Vick will ever play in the NFL.

 

[korbel]

D-Day for Vick

That's the interesting part - do we know exactly which statements within a contract refer to gambling and what the consequences are?

Hello all,

Vick has to go before the judge today to see whether he will accept the plea agreement. According to CNN analysts, Vick is going to be asked just what he is admitting to. Precisely what he says will determine his sentence and whether or not he has any possible future in the NFL, legally that is. Of course, that's notwithstanding public pressure and the will of any team to have him. But what Vick says will determine the offenses he will be sentenced for and whether the judge will be satisfied with the plea agreement and accept it. One slip of a phrase and Vick could create more trouble for himself than he might necessarily have to face. So stay tuned. It's going to be a very fine dance of terminology...and a very dangerous one for Vick.

Cha cha anyone,

Korbel

 

[eastender]

Recoverable Bonus Monies

Peter King in his regular Monday Morning column - www.cnnsi.com

Offers some insight into Michael Vick's contract with the Falcons and how the bonus money is structured and described.

Bottom line is that it does not look as if the Falcons may recover nearly as much as previously believed.