I don't think @Obvio-0bvio has bad morals (by Merb standards anyway lol). You wouldn't be the first one endlessly going back and forth with him on a total misunderstanding lol
Let me get my popcorn
Would You Book a Service Provider if You Knew She Was Being Pimped?
- Thread starter Obvio-0bvio
- Start date
I don't think @Obvio-0bvio has bad morals (by Merb standards anyway lol). You wouldn't be the first one endlessly going back and forth with him on a total misunderstanding lol
Let me get my popcorn
Excuse me, but I believe you are crossing a line by bringing up minors in this discussion. It is inappropriate and disrespectful to mention minors in this context. Your lack of ethics and manners is disappointing. Such behavior is unacceptable. Goodbye.
I’m just questioning where you wanted this discussion to go. Like members admitting they’re using the services of trafficked girls ? Just how far are we gonna have these « debates ».
The way you oriented your question was like this was a light matter. You’re the one who brought up services in the first place and your main concern was that your dick might not get sucked right if you hire someone coerced. Not that they’re pimped haha. I think it’s also very inappropriate to even be discussing that and to have it up for a conversation.
When i booked in 2014 they were actually getting 150$ out of 180$ Agency took 30$ per hour. I was getting 10$ per call no matter how much hours. So if it was a 2h i still got 10$, SP got 300 and agency got 50. So with prices at 260-280 i would be very surprised that they only get 150.
Also remember that everything an indy has to pay for at an agency is included. Incall place, advertising, website design, driving if outcall (unless she prefer to drive herself), and most importantly, she has NOTHING to handle herself and thats something some agency girls really enjoy. I had a few tell me directly. They show up for work, do their day, and once its done thats "don't bother me til i contact you to give you my next availability". Not every girl want to deal with the booking process, even if there was no time wasters (wich sadly there is a lot).
Everytime i spoke to them never was i been told they "had to do something". Yes the GFE is pretty much standard, but they know before applying to work there. After that, some girls been in agency for years not offering cim and thats fine. Thats their boundaries. They just have to be firm about it.
Girls who get fired usually its because they behaved in a way that was unnacceptable. Either very poor service or extreme flakyness. If anything the rosters have been in general pretty steady over the years at most agencies with only a few addition here and there. Its because these girls are good at their job, the agencies likely apreciate their business, everybody is happy.
By your post i could feel some ressentement toward agencies. Maybe you had a genuine bad experience. Im not judging you. But you have to understand that different business models and competition is what keep any market afloat. If indies could charge 1500$ the hour in Montreal, well they would. But there will always be some that would charge less and draw the business, making it slow for the pricier ones and eventually they would have to "adjust" as well. Right now it seem the market is able to handle itself well under the 2 models. Great.
But lets pretend every single ones of the agency girls become indy and charge 500$ (wich is what most indies charge now). No way they all get business and are able to stay alfoat. Because lots of the clients who book them every week for instance, they would have to book once every 2 weeks, maybe every 4 weeks if they also have to cut by half on different girls. Maybe they would feel they don't get enough for their $ and just book much less often. We don't know.
Last time i was in Montreal i saw 2 providers in 1 day. So i paid about 600$ total. But not only i saw 2 different persons but also had 2 hours. It made the trip and all it include (transportation to montreal, scheduling having to match etc) worth it a lot more than if i only saw 1 provider for 1 hour. Now will i do it sometimes? Pay 500 or maybe even 600 for 1 provider/1 hour. Yes... i may. Someone i been craving to see for a long time either as a repeat or because she has an OF or whatever. But would i put 600 on a random providers with an agency presentation? Likely not... If im putting 600 i want to know who im seeing (including knowing what she looks like facially). But thats me... Thats my budget and my preferences. I was reading today about Trump's court stuff and he got fine 9000$ and the judge said thats change to him but it was done out of principle. Well 9000$ for me would be years of refunding. So we ain't all the same. Its a good thing there is providers for different budgets.
Ultimately there is no "right price" for this type of business. Some women wouldn't do it for 50 000$ because its against their principles. Others may do it for high rollers at 10K+ in very high end agencies (usually Instagram models and Pornstars agencies) and others do it for 500$ an hour. If you talk to an American provider, she will likely say 500$ is "low end" because they used to 1000$+ in the US. Its a different market.
Yes its intimacy, its your body that you "provide". But remember that for some of us, we pay you close to a weekly salary for 1h ... Thats 40hours for us vs 1 for you. 40 hours we may deal with a bad boss or coworkers, or simply hard physical work. Again we ain't all high rollers. So im not gonna apologize personally that i am able to pay agencies rates...
Well according to the law we are all criminals doing what we do right? Do i consider myself a criminal? No. The same way i never did when i would smoke weed before it was legalized (and funny enough i have not smoked anything since it did got legalized lol). Pimp is used in general as a deragoty term to describe an abuser. If you want to be blunt and use it its pure description... fine. But thats obviously not what we refer it.
As for the second part of your message, actually the agency work FOR the girls. Girls are free to join any agency they want, and leave if the services are not satisfactory to them. Its the same concept as a talent agency for pornstars. Do you also consider them pimps? Some pornstars self book but majority want the agency services because they facilitate the work and have the connections. Some agencies were exposed as being rotten apples. Of course. But some get a lot of praise from different pornstars. You can't put everybody in the same boat.
I only booked very briefly but i remember one night one of the girls was drunk or high, can't say but she was under influence. She gave me lots of trash talk wich i absolutely didn't deserved. Im not gonna describe the whole situation but i was always polite and respectfull with the girls. When that happened i just said good night ill talk to you tomorow. The next day she did like nothing happened and all was fine. I was surprised... No apologies but no "being mad still". Owners told me she does that sometimes. So im pretty sure some bookers/owners have to deal with tantrums at times too.
I had a few SPs say to me over the years that they used to want to be friends with others, especially in outcall as they would often share the car, but they don't anymore because it created drama and false rumors and backstabbing.
Where im trying to get is that there is a lot going around in this industry and as you said youself, its not black and white... You can't just point to the agency owners and put everything on them.
Take onlyfans for exemple. How much girls have started doing onlyfans in recent years. They would had likely never worked in this industry if there wasn't that platform facilitating the distribution of content. Aka if they had to build their own website, deal with credit card companies etc etc, no way they would had. OF get a cuts of their work. Are they pimps? Its an exchange of services... They provide the platform, girls use it to sell their content. But they have to pay fees...
This isn’t about pricing. I was replying to someone who said they wouldn’t be comfortable paying an indy 150$ but that’s what ultimately a lot of agency girls are getting. Im guessing that you were a driver or something ? I’m glad no one shared a bad experience with you but like why would they? You’re working for the agency that would have coerced them, you know it’s like if my boss was abusing me, I wouldn’t go complain to his friend.
Again, if you have to reaffirm multiple times during your employment your boundaries, it’s bad.
At the end of the day, yes, some girls are very happy to be in agencies and are satisfied. But they are working under a sort of pimp model. It sounds crazy but some girls are also very satisfied to have a street pimp and prefer a man to handle their business. I just don’t think we should be hypocrites about the term.
Agencies work for themselves not for the girls, there is some pros but they employ girls not the other way around. And yes you can call it how you want, business manager, talent agent, they’re professionals but what they do is not that far off.
As for OF…nobody that produces content with them appreciates the platform. Yes they are very predatory. They take a huge cut, they even take from our tips, they don’t protect us and they allow monstrous chargebacks. But we’re kinda forced to use their services.
Just a booker/phone operator. I was actually not even in contact with the girls beside by texts. As for not sharing bad experiences, i meant as a client mostly.
OF is very bad for clients too, i already made extensive post about it, but just like the workers, we are forced to use it if we want to see this content. You say they take huge cuts and tips but thats "sadly" how it work with these platforms. They ain't a charity. Twitch does the same. Youtube always gotten a bad rep with the creators too. Its rare you see a platform that everybody love and praise...
That’s what we’ve been saying from the start no?
Over the years we have heard a number of indy girls malign agency owners as pimps and belittle agency girls as unknowing victims. For me it's another reason not to see these indy girls. It seems holier than thou and arrogant. Run your business however you want but there's no need to disparage competitors that offer exactly the same service with more convenient terms and better prices.
J'ai pendant longtemps refusé de faire affaire avec les agences.
Je voulais que la personne qui me donne le service soit celle qui retient le montant monétaire.
C'est impossible d'être certain que l'escorte avec lequel on négocie n'est pas de pimp.
C'est un milieu où pour de l'argent plusieurs personnes sont prêtes à faire des choix insensés.
Dans le marché sexuelle de la prostitution il est très difficile d'avoir de bonnes rencontres sans faire un minimum de recherche,merci merb.
La réalité est que pour la majorité des clients les tarifs des agences sont beaucoup plus intéressants.
Dsl mais pour moi c'est strictement le côté monétaire qui fait que je vais dans les agences.
Les indépendantes sont beaucoup trop dispendieuses pour moi et le risque de mauvais rendez-vous avec les plate-forme leolist ei sont très élevées.
Et non si je sais que l'escorte a un pimp c'est sur que j'y vais pas peu importe le prix.
C'est bien de le mentionner dans vos review mes amis merbiste.
Et j'ai de la difficulté à comparer les agences à des pimp.
Il faut faire des recherches s'informer et si des agences font des pratiques douteuses mesdames svp informer nous les clients.
Personne veut mentionner des noms d'agences pourquoi.
Je voulais que la personne qui me donne le service soit celle qui retient le montant monétaire.
C'est impossible d'être certain que l'escorte avec lequel on négocie n'est pas de pimp.
C'est un milieu où pour de l'argent plusieurs personnes sont prêtes à faire des choix insensés.
Dans le marché sexuelle de la prostitution il est très difficile d'avoir de bonnes rencontres sans faire un minimum de recherche,merci merb.
La réalité est que pour la majorité des clients les tarifs des agences sont beaucoup plus intéressants.
Dsl mais pour moi c'est strictement le côté monétaire qui fait que je vais dans les agences.
Les indépendantes sont beaucoup trop dispendieuses pour moi et le risque de mauvais rendez-vous avec les plate-forme leolist ei sont très élevées.
Et non si je sais que l'escorte a un pimp c'est sur que j'y vais pas peu importe le prix.
C'est bien de le mentionner dans vos review mes amis merbiste.
Et j'ai de la difficulté à comparer les agences à des pimp.
Il faut faire des recherches s'informer et si des agences font des pratiques douteuses mesdames svp informer nous les clients.
Personne veut mentionner des noms d'agences pourquoi.
I feel like the issue is too many people think it's "pimps vs agency owner" when it's "violent pimp vs non-violent pimp" (and the latter is sometimes still coercive but that's beyond the point).
Pimp is really just another word for boss in the context of sex work. Some bosses are abusive, others aren't - and that's true for every business. With sex work we just happen to call a boss a pimp, by definition. An athlete's boss is an agent or coach. A man's boss is called a wife (just kidding lol).
We aren't insulting every agency owner and calling every agency girl an unknowing victim (btw many of the girls who talk about agencies are former agency girls). We're just calling a spade a spade but some people have a very limited idea of what a spade is, so they think "spade" is meant as a negative 100% of the time when it's not. Lol
Pimp is really just another word for boss in the context of sex work. Some bosses are abusive, others aren't - and that's true for every business. With sex work we just happen to call a boss a pimp, by definition. An athlete's boss is an agent or coach. A man's boss is called a wife (just kidding lol).
We aren't insulting every agency owner and calling every agency girl an unknowing victim (btw many of the girls who talk about agencies are former agency girls). We're just calling a spade a spade but some people have a very limited idea of what a spade is, so they think "spade" is meant as a negative 100% of the time when it's not. Lol
Dans le vocabulaire populaire pimp il n'est pas écrit violent ou non c'est quelqu'un qui profite du personne non consentante.
L'agence fait un travail pour l'escorte.
L'escorte est consentante.
Les conditions de travail sont négociés et la travailleuse accepte les termes.
Si on commence à parler d'exploitation je considère que je suis exploiter à travailler pour 30h pour le patron de mon entreprise pourtant je continue j'ai des comptes à payer.
L'agence fait un travail pour l'escorte.
L'escorte est consentante.
Les conditions de travail sont négociés et la travailleuse accepte les termes.
Si on commence à parler d'exploitation je considère que je suis exploiter à travailler pour 30h pour le patron de mon entreprise pourtant je continue j'ai des comptes à payer.
Dans l'imaginaire populaire, le pimp est habillé comme un dandy, se promène en char avec des p'tits pompoms qui pendouillent et se prend pour le nombril du monde.
C'est un ultra narcissique et de ce fait ne laisse que des grenailles à ses "protégées".
Il séduit ses recrues avec des cadeaux somptueux puis les casse en les donnant en pature à ses acolytes qui les violent en série puis les droguent pour mieux les asservir.
Almost all the stories I have heard didn’t come from Indy providers. Mostly from girls in mp places. I don’t see why they would try to appear holier or be arrogant.
I have never encountered a discussion thread where people became aggressive,rude with so much hate . Some members diverted the topic and placed blame on agency owners.
While I can see the comparison between agency owners and pimps in terms of control and violence, it is evident that agency owners do not resort to violence or impose restrictions like real pimps do.
Agency owners may employ certain tactics to increase productivity and convince them to offer GFE,but it is important to note that service providers willingly choose to work for these agencies and have the freedom to leave at any time if they feel mistreated or pressured. Unfortunately, victims of real pimps do not have the same luxury to walk away.
Some individuals on the thread seem to be criticizing agencies to shift the focus away from pimps. It is understandable that some people may have had negative experiences, and I sympathize with them. If I were aware of any agency using unethical practices, I would immediately boycott them.
However, it appears that some members are attempting to silence the discussion or divert attention to agency owners.The harsh reality is that pimps are known for their reputation and brutal tactics, which occur on a daily basis and are far worse than the behaviors of agency owners.I am not fabricating or speculating; this is a well-known fact that you hear about every day. My intention is not to tarnish the image of pimps i am just presenting the facts as they are.
I want to clarify that my intention is not to defend agency owners. What I am trying to emphasize is that there is a significant distinction between real pimps and agency owners. It would be unfair to the victims of real pimps to compare the two. If you were to ask these victims to choose between an agency owner and a real pimp, I am confident that all 10 out of 10 victims would opt for the agency owner – for them it would be like a walk in the park and it would be a far less traumatic experience. .
I am puzzled by some members assuming that I am advocating for agency owners. My aim is simply to provide a realistic and logical perspective when contrasting agency owners with real pimps.
Let's continue this conversation respectfully and stay on topic without resorting to rudeness or going off track.
While I can see the comparison between agency owners and pimps in terms of control and violence, it is evident that agency owners do not resort to violence or impose restrictions like real pimps do.
Agency owners may employ certain tactics to increase productivity and convince them to offer GFE,but it is important to note that service providers willingly choose to work for these agencies and have the freedom to leave at any time if they feel mistreated or pressured. Unfortunately, victims of real pimps do not have the same luxury to walk away.
Some individuals on the thread seem to be criticizing agencies to shift the focus away from pimps. It is understandable that some people may have had negative experiences, and I sympathize with them. If I were aware of any agency using unethical practices, I would immediately boycott them.
However, it appears that some members are attempting to silence the discussion or divert attention to agency owners.The harsh reality is that pimps are known for their reputation and brutal tactics, which occur on a daily basis and are far worse than the behaviors of agency owners.I am not fabricating or speculating; this is a well-known fact that you hear about every day. My intention is not to tarnish the image of pimps i am just presenting the facts as they are.
I want to clarify that my intention is not to defend agency owners. What I am trying to emphasize is that there is a significant distinction between real pimps and agency owners. It would be unfair to the victims of real pimps to compare the two. If you were to ask these victims to choose between an agency owner and a real pimp, I am confident that all 10 out of 10 victims would opt for the agency owner – for them it would be like a walk in the park and it would be a far less traumatic experience. .
I am puzzled by some members assuming that I am advocating for agency owners. My aim is simply to provide a realistic and logical perspective when contrasting agency owners with real pimps.
Let's continue this conversation respectfully and stay on topic without resorting to rudeness or going off track.
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Are whore, ho, hoe, hooker and pute etc. just "other words" for escort?
Exactly. I would have used intellectual “gymnastics”.
You’re definition is very narrow and akin to depictions in Hollywood movies like Taxi Driver or more recently Hustle & Flow.
There is risk of exploitation all around.
Haven’t you read the examples from the girls that worked in agencies?
You don’t get it. Santa Claus is the pimp and the providers are the elves.
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