Racism and SPs preferences

Ministry · Sep 19, 2006

Well, after reading all the great words that had been said of this fine lady i decided to email her to request an appointment in October. Bad news is she`s unavailable until October 16, but the worst news of all is and i quote her; "I am not comfortable receiving any asian/oriental men at the moment...sorry, no exceptions." Amazing! I consider myself a newbie to this hobby so please correct me if i`m wrong. I`ve only met 2 SPs in the last few years and this is the first time ever i`ve read a specific ethnicity that a SP won`t meet. While i realize and accept it`s the lady`s exclusive right and privilege to decide whom she meets, but discernment against one`s own ethnicity is tragic. Has anyone read from a caucasian SP`s bio that she`s "uncomfortable" meeting with caucasian men? Must one state one`s own ethnicity to a SP before an appointment to ensure a good time for all? I sincerely hope this is just an isolated case because i would hate to see how little we have evolved.

** Thread splitted from Mystique (asian independant SP)......what an experience!
Mod 6 ***

klown · Sep 19, 2006

I saw this a few times with Indian/Pakistani SPs who will not see South Asian men when I was browsing for London (i.e. UK) SPs a while ago... I am not sure exactly why. It may be they're afraid it will get back to someone in their community as to their chosen profession.

klown

spiky · Sep 19, 2006

I Agree...

klown said:
I am not sure exactly why. It may be they're afraid it will get back to someone in their community as to their chosen profession.

klown

IMLO world is very small for asian community in Montreal. Trust me I know what I'm talking about cuz have few asian friends living in MTL

Spiky

Lion Heart · Sep 19, 2006

I also agree...

klown said:
It may be they're afraid it will get back to someone in their community as to their chosen profession.

There are even SPs who see only visitors and refuse to see ANY locals because of their phobia of meeting someone they might know. I was refused myself for this sole reason on a couple of occasions. Most agency SPs don't have much choice to see whoever the agency has for clients but most indies see only a limited number of clients per week and are consequently selective.

Call it preference or discrimination, they may sort you out by age, heritage, or just by the way you express yourself in an email request. Who can blame them?

Lion Heart

PCGuy · Sep 19, 2006

Ministry said:
Bad news is she's unavailable until October 16, but the worst news of all is and i quote her; "I am not comfortable receiving any asian/oriental men at the moment...sorry, no exceptions." Amazing! I consider myself a newbie to this hobby so please correct me if i'm wrong. I've only met 2 SPs in the last few years and this is the first time ever i've read a specific ethnicity that a SP won't meet. While i realize and accept it's the lady's exclusive right and privilege to decide whom she meets, but discernment against one's own ethnicity is tragic.

That is pretty strange, but not completely uncommon. An asian friend of mine (male) will not date fellow asians since he isn't attracted to them. I have another black friend who will date anyone but black girls.

As for the getting back to the community thing, if you really are in NYC, I don't think that should be an issue. However, it is her right to refuse anyone, but I can see how that can be frustrating.

jacep · Sep 19, 2006

Ministry said:
"I am not comfortable receiving any asian/oriental men at the moment...sorry, no exceptions."

I also received her reply to that effect. However, personally I don`t have an issue with her stating her preference. Everyone has their preference including SPs. I wouldn`t see some type of SPs (weight preference, height preference, tatoo preference, ethnicity preference, etc.). Just because someone is an SP, doesn`t mean that they should see everyone.

As discussed in this thread about Asian customers: https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17723#17 I personally don`t have a problem with SPs not seeing certain customers based on whatever reason as long as they mention this before hand and they are upfront and polite about it.

nylonlover · Sep 19, 2006

Perhaps she wants to avoid asian community members such that the word doesn't get out that she is an sp...Some ethnic communities will chastise certain people percieved as 'bad'...

I really don't think it has anything to do with asian men per se, but moreso the fact that you may i.d. her within the community...

my 2 cents on the matter.

Ministry · Sep 20, 2006

Ministry said:
I am not comfortable receiving any asian/oriental men at the moment...sorry, no exceptions"

I respect Mystique on whichever criteria she has for her potential clients, it is her prerogative. What i do find disappointing is that she singled out her own ethnicity. Everyone had brought up valid reasons as to why she might chose to do so. But if she truly worries word of her clandestine profession might seep into her own community, why not simply state she accepts no locals from Montreal? That reason wouldn't have vexed me so. Why shun just asian men in particular? Lastly, notice she wrote she doesn't receive asian men "at the moment." That alone reveal the true reason; her aversion for asian men.

According to the CIA factbook there are over 6.5 billion people on this planet. Nearly 2/3 of which are asians and living on only less than 1/3 of the total land mass. So why the mention? Clearly we are great lovers.

What i feel is not bitterness at Mystique's poor judgement, just pity.

Rex Kramer · Sep 20, 2006

Ministry said:
I respect Mystique on whichever criteria she has for her potential clients, it is her prerogative. What i do find disappointing is that she singled out her own ethnicity. Everyone had brought up valid reasons as to why she might chose to do so. But if she truly worries word of her clandestine profession might seep into her own community, why not simply state she accepts no locals from Montreal? That reason wouldn't have vexed me so. Why shun just asian men in particular? Lastly, notice she wrote she doesn't receive asian men "at the moment." That alone reveal the true reason; her aversion for asian men.

Ministry,

If you truly respect her perogative on whatever criteria she uses, I think you should just accept that as a fact and move on. She has clealry stated her current perference upfront and politely IMO. I read "at the moment" differently than you did- I read that as implying that she might change her mind in the future, maybe after she gets more comfortable with this line of work?

I have not met her, but have traded a couple of emails with her. I don't believe her decision to not meet with Asian males is motivated by racisim, which to me means that someone would consider a whole race as being either more superior or more inferior just because of race, which is really stupidity and bigotry at its worst. My sense is that she has thought thru this issue carefully, and has decided that excluding all local males may not be a viable business option. This is just speculation on my part though.

There are so many other excellent SP choices in Montreal, why get so hung up on one of them? I will be happy to send you some suggestions, if you would just PM me with your likes and preferences.

Rook01 · Sep 20, 2006

I just had to reply to this since I am "Asian". This is rather broad description, since it's pretty big wide range of land/islands, cultures, and ethnicity. So, this would mean Asia and Pacific Rim. So, if you are a somehow descended from an Asian father or mother, you're part Asian.

Couldn't care less if she doesn't want to see me, no loss there. Wouldn't want to see someone who didn't want to see me either.

I have had to live with being "Asian", growing around caucasians. Grew up in the US and Canada, so, been thru enough racist remarks. Served in the US Military on the enlisted side and having to survive thru all them rednecks and hicks. The brothers were cooler since, they didn't seem to care that my eyes were slanted.

I can understand if an Indy would have a preference, in so saying I guess I should always communicate my race, creed and color when I contact any Indy or SP / Agency ?

That's the problem isn't it ? If you have to provide your ethnicity, it's no longer equal.

Gentle2her · Sep 20, 2006

Rook01 said:
That's the problem isn't it ? If you have to provide your ethnicity, it's no longer equal.

Equal?????? We all get to see detailed descriptions of most girls we meet, pictures, reviews, etc. Most of the times they know absolutely nothing about the guy they are going to meet. You say it's no more "equal" if it's better you tell your etnicity to a girl before you meet her? You must be kidding!

I know this thread is about Mystique and I don't want to hijack it with general comments, but if a girl has the guts to tell potential clients about her likes and dislikes (on the Web or otherwise) and is able to avoid "unwanted" experiences up-front, more power to her.

jacep · Sep 20, 2006

Rex Kramer said:
I read "at the moment" differently than you did- I read that as implying that she might change her mind in the future, maybe after she gets more comfortable with this line of work?

I have not met her, but have traded a couple of emails with her. I don't believe her decision to not meet with Asian males is motivated by racisim, which to me means that someone would consider a whole race as being either more superior or more inferior just because of race, which is really stupidity and bigotry at its worst. My sense is that she has thought thru this issue carefully, and has decided that excluding all local males may not be a viable business option. This is just speculation on my part though.

I also noticed the "at the moment" but for me, I doubt that she will change her opinion in the future.

Like you, I also don't believe that she doesn't want to see Asian men because of any racism or superior/inferior issue. She thought out this decision and for her, she feels that it is the right decision. Personally, I believe that she has her reasons, if she changes them, then that is fine. If not, that is fine as well.

I've met or e-mailed a few SPs who won't see people below or above a certain age or people of a certain nationality or people of a certain length/height/weight/girth/etc. As long as they are polite about it, I've never had a problem with it even when I was informed that I am on the "excluded" list.

Everyone has preferences. Clients and SPs alike.

jacep · Sep 20, 2006

Maxima said:
Mystique did not provide the reason for her decision to exclude asian men. And she did not have to. So let's just leave it at that. Speculating and justifying her action through speculation is a bit condescending to the "rejected" group, IMHO.

Since you quoted my post, I'm not sure if your last comments were directed at me but I agree with you 100%. It is her choice and her perogative. She has her reason(s) whatever they/it may be and we shouldn't try to second guess her or other SPs about their decisions.

Even though I stated that I didn't have a problem with being on a SP's "excluded" list based on age/height/weight/race/etc., this doesn't mean that I wasn't a little disappointed. However, I just move on and don't think much about it. As long as they were polite and up front about it, I've never had any negative feelings about being placed on an excluded list based on something that I had very little control over. Most people should just do the same thing. Regardless of the reviews I've read on any particular person, I've never felt that I HAD to see that person. I've always felt that it was nice to see someone if possible. If it wasn't possible for whatever reason, I just see someone else.

jacep · Sep 20, 2006

Maxima said:
About being "polite", how do you write in a polite manner to a black person to say "Sorry, I do no like to see black people"? How do you say in a polite way to refuse renting a room to a black person? by saying "Sorry, I do not want to see black people in my place...at the moment"? I wonder how that black person would feel in the receiving end of such overwhelming "politeness".
Sure that black person would be crazy if he/she insisted to rent that place.

I believe what Mystique wrote was polite regarding Asians. With some of the SPs that I've written to trying to arrange a date, when I described myself and I was informed that I was on their "excluded" list, all of them have been polite.

By "polite", I mean not using any derogatory/negative terms such as using racist/prejudicial derogatory words when referring to that person being on the "excluded" list... such things as saying "I'm sorry but I don't see <RACIAL/DEROGATORY/PREJUDICIAL WORD>". I believe saying "Sorry, I don't currently see or I don't see <politically correct ethnic term> people" is polite.

Just because someone is a SP should not mean that they must see everyone. They might be in a "service" type line of work but because of the closeness/intimacy involved, they should not be forced to "date" someone just like I shouldn't be forced to see someone.

As you know and everyone knows, there is a big/major difference between going out with a SP or going out on a date and buying something or renting an appartment/car/etc. I feel that it would be totally unacceptable to not serve people in a regular service industry because of something that they had little control over like their age, race, etc. For example, it was wrong for that bar in Laval or the North Shore of Montreal to exclude adult blacks (as opposed to minors) as patrons. However, having written this, I also believe that it is acceptable not to go out with someone because they are not your type whether on a SP date or a real date. I don't believe that it is wrong for someone not to want to see someone based on race, age, etc. even if money becomes involved in the equation.

I think that what Mystique is doing is fine. She is being upfront about her preference before the actual meeting. She is also being what I consider to be polite about it.

EagerBeaver · Sep 20, 2006

Racism and Speculation

I find this speculation regarding racial motivations to be inappropriate. I once met an Asian provider (not Mystique) who told me she did not like Asian men, because she wasn't attracted to them. I recently talked to an Asian hobbyist friend who told me he doesn't like Asian SPs because he isn't attracted to them. He said to me, "I seen Asian girls my whole life. Why would I want to see an Asian SP? I am looking for something different. I find I am attracted to women I did not see a lot of growing up." This hobbyist likes white girls.

It's not racism when you happen to not have an attraction to a particular racial group. It is sheer ignorance for an Asian man rejected on grounds set forth above to call it racism. It's called "your ugly to her, dude, so get the fuck over it."

MontrealAsian · Sep 21, 2006

I think.....

She just doesn't like small yellow cock. Indian ppl are exceptions to the "Asians have small cock..."

I'm just messing with you. But from what I read about her, she seems to be QUITE the bang for the buck... too bad i'll never be able to find out... but hey, if anything, I can pay one of my white friends to bang her and record it or something, that'll probably be the closest i'll ever get to banging her....

OR... maybe... just maybe....

I can hide in the closet while my white friend is banging away... weird. I must agree... but if her driver can sit in the god damn washroom for 2 hours, I sure as hell can hide in my own closet for 2 hours!

All joking aside, if she doesn't like asian men, she doesn't like asian men. She has her reasons, and its VERY tiresome trying to speculate what's on her mind. You know what they say about guessing too much.... it makes you go coocoo for cocopuffs!

My 2cent.

Juliana · Sep 21, 2006

I compltely understand !

Maxima said:
jim-ce,

I agree with you about not seeing that SP and about leaving it at that.
But I am curious about the following:
About being "polite", how do you write in a polite manner to a black person to say "Sorry, I do no like to see black people"? How do you say in a polite way to refuse renting a room to a black person? by saying "Sorry, I do not want to see black people in my place...at the moment"? I wonder how that black person would feel in the receiving end of such overwhelming "politeness".
Sure that black person would be crazy if he/she insisted to rent that place.

I love black males in my personal life, but as clients some of them suck big time.They often fell entitle to stay for the session forever and without paying extra for my time. It is rather hard to get rid of them. Also they allways want more and for free. Well if you think you are sooooooo hot, why are you visiting a sex worker ?
Once I had this black guy who came to my massage and as he was finally leaving he received a phone call and began talking on his cellular phone inside of my work place for a good half hour.

Or they fell like I have to become their gilrfriend even if I already have a boyfriend.
The First Nation and The Asians The Arabe and Jewish and Whites dont do that. And they pay if they want to stay longer, If we click I do enjoy talking because I am a people's person, but please remember I have other things to do after your session is over.

My favority clients are the respectfull and polite and the well read. I mean respectfull of the fact that I am not announcing dating services. I am a sex worker, therefore I want to be paid for my time, not exploited.

Lately I spoke with a psychoanalist doctor who told me '' Victimised people often have a sense of entitlement'' I guess he is right !

EagerBeaver · Sep 21, 2006

Maxima,

I take your questions to be mostly rhetorical in nature. Of course, there is no polite way to tell a potential black client that she doesn't see black men - whatever the reason. Rejection, no matter what the reason for it, is never "polite" nor is it readily acceptable. I think a rejection is equally hurtful if it is because you are black, or because you are ugly. You are just as much rejected either way.

One SP once told me that she did not see black men because they tended to be tall and large with huge penises, and she did not like the pounding she got from such men. Now, I doubt she ever actually told her rejected black clients that she did not see them for that reason. And in fact, some women and some SPs probably enjoy sex greatly with such men. Basically, it is a matter of personal preference.

Of course, screening clients based solely on race does open up an SP to the charge that she is not open minded, if not racist. To get around this problem, what I have seen some SPs do in the USA deep south, where this phenomenon is far more prevalent, is to put disclaimers on their websites, like "serving caucasian men and black professional men only." It is hard to know what such a statement actually means, but what it is intended to do is tell black gangster/drug dealer types to fly a kite. I know this from having personally spoken to some SPs in Miami about this very issue.

EagerBeaver · Sep 21, 2006

Maxima said:
Mystique wrote: "Sorry, I do not see Asians, for now"

Maxima,

What is really unusual about that quote is the "for now" part. It implies, to me, that there is a specific Asian man that Mystique does not want to see - perhaps an ex-BF, and maybe that is why she has a driver playing the role of Tie Domi in the bathroom.

BTW, what does the driver do in there? Sit on the toilet and read Asian newspapers?

EagerBeaver · Sep 21, 2006

Maxima said:
LMAO. One popular incall SP in Mtl does say something similar about not accepting penis bigger than a certain size on her web site.

There was once an SP in Connecticut who had a 180 pound weight restriction (no men over 180). Being that my weight fluctuates above and below 180, I asked her about that restriction. She told me she had back problems as a result of a childhood injury and the pounding from bigger men really aggravated her back condition.

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