Nope, but not that far. In canada men avg is 5'9 woman 5'4, in the USA men is 5'9'' and a half, woman 5'4 (the difference in the USA is white men avg is 5'10'' but hispanic are 5'7''.
The So Called Double Standard by Women
- Thread starter CLOUD 500
- Start date
Nope, but not that far. In canada men avg is 5'9 woman 5'4, in the USA men is 5'9'' and a half, woman 5'4 (the difference in the USA is white men avg is 5'10'' but hispanic are 5'7''.
I do know, I am 5'6''. In my youth, because I was always the short guy, I had to be the best one in sports. I excelled in soccer where height is not that important (heck best scorer of MLS last year was Giovinco, he is 5'4''
).Even if I have been with girlfriend taller then me, I cannot lie, height does affect your chance with women. In my 20's I never really hit the club to score chicks, most of the time it was pretty useless. It was much easier for me scoring chicks by being the best on the field or the ice, or on the ski hill, etc... And later in life by being successfull in business and with a very good sense of humour, being able to laught at myself the most important!
But still with all that said and being completely at ease with my height, I do not see SP above 5'7''. It's physical.. sex is better with a girl about your height or shorter. Things may be completely different for others tho...
Cheers,
Hispanic men are shorter on average because in the Latin American countries the diets eaten by the natives lack protein. For example, I travelled to Mexico and visited Mayan people on the Yucatan peninsula. I towered over the Mayan men and if they had a Mayan basketball team I could start at center. I didn't see any Mayan men taller than 5'5", and the women are tiny, all shorter than 5'0". They eat rice and beans and not enough protein.
I've read Cloud 500 many times. We have agreed generally many times. I see him as an intelligent person. But going back to the original post I see some statements that are too generalized. Some things of note:
1. If women choose to limit dates to men over 5'10" it's very short-sighted IMHO, but it's their choice, the same as preferring to stay within any other definition that means something to them. Any man has the same right to similar restrictions and many use them.
2. When a woman or person puts restrictions on who she wants to meet it does a great service for me telling me some of what she is like thus saving me a lot of effort, time, and money.
3. It's not about hate. I've also experienced how lousy it is to feel left out because of something physical you cannot help since I can remember. Still, short and small becomes irrelevant when women get to know the man inside as both clients and escorts have said in this thread. Only the most hardened narrow mind would still leave out a good man and what kind of person are those women showing about themselves anyway. Why would you want them?
4. Women face the same issues. Bias because of some very limited preference is not only a man's issue.
5. Sorry but I feel there's too much physical emphasis on this issue, even if there are very real living problems to deal with in every day life.
Good luck to Cloud 500. You're a good man.
PS
To the foxy Amber Rose. I never disagreed with any of your view I only meant the answer to your question was too obvious because men naturally go for someone who is not taller.
... so I guess the morale of the story is... Escorts won't discriminate you for your height!!!!
HURRAAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!
I'm happy, and everybody should be happy too! :bounce:
(sorry for being off topic CLOUD 500: I'm just trying to find the positive in this quandary!)
HURRAAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!
I'm happy, and everybody should be happy too! :bounce:
(sorry for being off topic CLOUD 500: I'm just trying to find the positive in this quandary!)
Exactly although people are sensitive to the weight issue they are not to the height issue. But I will say this women are generally far more flexible with weight then height. The height is something women place huge importance on. But hey all these things are shallow and everyone has a right to it... Even myself I am shallow. The only point is I do not want to be villafyed for it if I only date slim and athletic women of color.
With all due respect you do not know what you are talking about. If you check every manufacturer mens clothes are built specifically for men 5'10" and up. So that 30% of the male population who are shorter have been left out. You can check any of the manufacturer's websites and you will see for yourself. I have yet to find a store that sells tops and jackets that fit me in length. Always the sleeves are an inch or two too long and the shirt sleeves always three inches too long so I must always tuck it in at all times. I been to every store I have seen I looked everywhere for over 20 years no such luck. I just have to do with ill fitting tops. Pants are not an issue as I have long legs and hemming pants are very easy. However in my 20's I was skinny with a size 28in waist finding pants that fit me in width was a huge challenge but with dress pants that was easy to take care of I had the waist pulled in. That does not work with jeans though but I always found size 28 in Levis 501 jeans the only style I wear. Having said that the issue is especially with shirts since wearing an ill fitting one and you look terrible and it further emphasizes your small size. The same goes for leather jackets the sleeves and shirt tail always a two or three inches too long. I have to have my jackets made to measure. Now considering that 30% of the male populations is between 5'4" to 5'9" why no clothes for the short small man? They got specialty stores for women for petite sizes and plus sizes. I seen so many mens stores with big and tall sizes. In fact every mens store has a big and tall section. So is that not height discrimination at its max?
The good news is that some small men are beginning to take charge of this discrimination. I bunch of stores for small men have crept up and it getting more and more numerous. Unfortunately these stores are all in the US as such online order is the only feasible way. There is only one store in Canada and that is Browns Short Man which is in Toronto-> http://www.shortmanbrowns.com/en/
Here are other lists of stores for short small men->
http://www.petermanningnyc.com/
http://www.jimmyaus.com/
http://jaxeverett.com/
There many others also. EagerBeaver is right. My feet are also between a size 7 or 8. I have not had issues finding shoe sizes. But for tops and jackets that is a nightmare. EagerBeaver has it right. And this what this thread is all about. I am not talking about dating or SPs or any of that other stuff. This is about the double standard. We see it in dating and in clothes.
You are right. And I never said they were not entitled to it. This was about the so called double standard. Women want to reject a man because he is small well I reject women who are too chubby, wide, with flat ass, and women who are too pale. That is my right. I just do not want to be villafyed it my point. And yes this makes us shallow and I never discounted that. As for your last sentence I think most men avoid going to taller women as they know the stigma of height by women so why bother and put your ego on the line when you are almost certain to be rejected? I love both tall and short women. I got no height preference I find tall women with their long legs sexy. However I like my women slim and athletic. I want them to have the small flat stomach.
Wel CLOUD 500 I do have a solution for you !
Come shop clothing in Vancouver ,they cloths Asian men and stores order for that section of demography !
Cheers
Booker
I'm a straight white man. I don't think I'm discriminated against.
Women's criterias are not better or worse. What's the point of this thread? Women discriminate against men who think it's too hard to build muscle?
Women's criterias are not better or worse. What's the point of this thread? Women discriminate against men who think it's too hard to build muscle?
Generally I have less problems with shirts than jackets. In shirts, I need a neck size of 16.5" and 32/33 on the sleeves. Such a shirt will fit me nicely, most manufacturers any way. Most of my shirts are Calvin Klein, Tommy Hilfiger and like brands because I really can't wear anything less and maintain professional credibility. At the office however, I am sometimes able to dress down with the Land's End no wrinkle, no iron shirts which do not cost that much, and they wear very well. One of my coworkers suggested these shirts if I am only in the office and not meeting any clients.
Sports jackets I am almost always having to get them tailored on the sleeves. And I was insanely angry when I went to K&G Fashion Superstore and saw this amazing sports jacket from Calvin Klein on sale for $99 but no 42 short. They had all the pimp sizes but not 42S. I was really upset. K&G is a store that caters to the urban customer and I was actually looking for a yellow sports jacket and Cloud500 if you see a yellow sports jacket (like banana yellow) anywhere in Montreal, please let me know okay? Because I went in Men's Warehouse and Joseph A. Banks and they looked at me like I had 3 eyes. However there was a black salesman at Men's Warehouse whom I had a very interesting conversation with, which went down like this:
Salesman: "Hey My Man! Can I help you find something?"
Me: "Yeah, you got any yellow sports jackets? Like banana yellow?"
Salesman: "Are you serious?"
Me: "As a heart attack."
Salesman: "if I may ask, why do you need yellow? We have some light blues."
Me: "Because I wear yellow well, in fact I wear it very well, and people notice this because not everyone can pull it off."
Salesman: "We do not have what you are looking for, but I will tell you who sells the fashion you are looking for: K&G Fashion Superstore."
Now that was a real good salesman because he referred me to his competition - sort of. Men's Wearhouse is selling the upper middle class white guy his wardrobe. K&G Fashion Superstore has the urban minority clients in mind, the ones who make good money. So he referred me to a competitor only in the sense that both stores are selling sports jackets, because each sells to a totally different clientele. Still, I was amazed at K&G Fashion Superstore's selection of sports jackets. They did not, however, have the 42 short banana yellow sports coat I am looking for. If you guys see it anywhere, let me know. I will fly to Vancouver to buy one if I must. But if I have eyes on the ground in Montreal it will help.
For my banana yellow sports coat, I will pay a finder's fee of 10% of the cost of the jacket if I like and purchase it (and it fits, or can be tailored to fit), to the finder.
BTW protein has nothing to do with growth. Studies have shown that younger generations are taller and taller because of the growth hormones (to make cows, pigs, chickens grow faster) they eat in their meat. Thats why for example Northern Mexicans who live closer to the American border are generally taller then those who live in the South. I think that smaller people in general will be less and less comon with the years because of our food and new genetics. Beans has the same amount of protein that meat has. Combined with rice or quinoa, it makes a complete protein with all the essentials amino acids.
Dude, you got to be kidding. Clothing is made so it can be sold for a profit. Having dabbled in the textile industry I know that clothing is made off-shore to take advantage of the cheapest labor. Due in part to the long supply line and to take advantage of economies of scale, massive orders are placed a year in advance of the season that the clothing is manufactured for. Retailers have to predict what sizes to order based on demographics. There are professional people that study what sizes to make based on the size and shape of the people that live in the region where clothing is destined to be sold. They have to guess what the fashionable colors will be and everything else etc. If they guess wrong than the clothing they cannot sell go on the sale rack. This costs the retailer a ton of money if they are wrong. Some retailers treat the clothing sold in their store like consignment selling. This means that the clothing that doesn't sell may be the burden of the firm that contracted the mill to make the clothing. Regardless, there is no racism against short men. The problem could be inaccurate forecasting. Try going to China and finding clothing to fit an American over 6ft. They don't make many of these sizes because they stock clothing based on the height and weight for the people that live there. They make larger sizes to ship over to the United States and Canada.
The bottom line is that clothing is made and sold to make a profit. Not to make tall men look good at the expense of short guys that can't get a date. It is about the almighty dollar...or yen or rubble. They want to sell every unit made.
Seriously. Loool You got no clue what you are talking about. Fact it 33% of the American male population is under 5'8". That is not significant? No profit to me made? How did you come to that conclusion? This is exactly what this thread is about the so called double standard and height discrimination. In the last 100 years all groups has made progress against discrimination, Blacks, gays and lesbians, women, yet short men have not. Just by reading your post it proves my point. There is a lot of good cash to made from small short men as I said 33% of the male population is under 5'8". Only about 10% of the male population is over 6'2" yet there seems to be an abundance of big and tall sizes. But in one of my posts I posted a few links to stores that specialize in short mens clothes and more and more are opening up each day. Unfortunately Canada is very slow with that but Canada usually sucks for any kind of variety for any products. BTW there are not a lot of Indian, Asian, and Latino men who are on average shorter by 3 inches compared to White and Black males. And here you are talking about no profits to me made. Looool The problem is short men are powerful many just accept to wear ill fitting clothes but not me.
I have the worst time with shirts. Weird thing is they make jackets for short men but no shirts for short men. Really weird. The fact that you are stocky is probably why you get away with it. For shirts for my sleeves I need a 31. Smallest on the rack is 32/33 which is a bit too long for me. Also the shirt tails always goes to my knees, the pockets are too low, the collar too long, the arm holes too large. For neck I wear 14.5in. For coats I need a 36S.
If I see anything like this I will let you know.
Here's a good little documentary named S&M : Short and Male, that exposes the trials and tribulations of short men.
Definitely opened my eyes on this subject!
https://vimeo.com/6780321
Definitely opened my eyes on this subject!
https://vimeo.com/6780321
Splotch,
It's a hard life for a short male, especially if your favorite sport is basketball and you can only play effectively in 5'6" and under leagues like me.
The short male is much like the polar bear, a threatened species. Polar bears go without food due to climate change, we sometimes have to go without the women and clothes we want. It's a bummer. This is why my heart bleeds for polar bears.
It's a hard life for a short male, especially if your favorite sport is basketball and you can only play effectively in 5'6" and under leagues like me.
The short male is much like the polar bear, a threatened species. Polar bears go without food due to climate change, we sometimes have to go without the women and clothes we want. It's a bummer. This is why my heart bleeds for polar bears.
:clap2:
Nicely said Snake. Your entire post echoed the following Bukowski classic, who never cared if he came across as an asshole.
Too much
too little
or not enough
too fat
too thin
or nobody
laughter or
tears
or immaculate
non-concern
haters
lovers
armies running through streets of blood
waving winebottles
bayoneting and fucking virgins
or an old guy in a cheap room
with a photograph of Marilyn Monroe
many old guys in cheap rooms without
any photographs at all
many old women rubbing rosaries
when they'd prefer to be rubbing cocks
there is a loneliness in this world so great
that you can see it in the slow movements of
the hands of a clock
there is a loneliness in this world so great
that you can see it blinking in neon signs
in Vegas, in Baltimore, in Munich
there are people so tired
so strafed
so mutilated by love or no
love
that buying a bargain can of tuna
in a supermarket
is their greatest moment
their greatest victory
we don't need new governments
new revolutions
we don't need new men
new women
we don't need new ways
wife-swaps
waterbeds
good Columbian
coke
water pipes
dildoes
rubbers with corkscrew stems
watches that give you the date
people are not good to each other
one on one.
Marx be damned
the sin is not the totality of certain systems.
Christianity be damned
the sin is not the killing of a God.
people are just not good to each other.
we are afraid
we think that hatred means strength
we think that New York City is the greatest
city in America.
what we need is less brilliance
what we need is less instruction
what we need are less poets
what we need are less Bukowskies
what we need are less Billy Grahams
what we need is more
beer
a typist
more finches
more green-eyed whores who don't eat your heart
like a vitamin pill
we don't think about the terror of one person
aching in one place
alone
untouched
unspoken to
watering a plant
being without a telephone that will never
ring
because there isn't one.
more haters than lovers
slices of doom like taffeta
people are not good to each other
people are not good to each other
people are not good to each other
and the beads swing and the clouds cloud
and the dogs piss upon the roses
and the killer beheads the child like taking a bite
out of an ice cream cone
and the ocean comes in and out
in and out
under the direction of a senseless moon
and people are not good to each other.
OMG! I missed the sperm bank height requirement (5'11") by 1 inch. Oh God NOOOOOOO!
Sorry. I think most of us like me are sympathetic against bias toward anyone for any reason. Treat every person like a person. No excuses. However, when I listened to the early part of the video and the guy says short people are doomed to be treated like 2nd and 3rd class citizens because of their height the first word that came to me was overkill.
I'm not short, but I've faced the exact same kind of bias forever. I've never thought I was a 2nd or 3rd class citizen despite all the same kinds of issues to deal with. Listening to the video one would think you mean Randy Newman was right. "Short people got no reason to live." If that is anything like the way you feel then there's a lot more than being short that needs to be dealt with.
I know a guy who is 6'0" to 6'1". He's young, athletic, seems like a nice guy, other people like him. In the short person's view he's got every advantage a guy can have. RIGHT??? Maybe not. He has this twitch. About every 30 seconds or so his head jerks sharply turning to one side for a second, every minute of his life. I don't know much about how he thinks but he seems to be doing well. But that twitch never stops. For all I know he has to eat and sleep, bath and poop, do his job while that happens to him all the time. Can you imagine trying to get a better job, finding a great lady, or just dealing with the public ignorant about what's going on with that twitch. Don't you think people will make instant bad judgments about that and tend to treat you awkwardly, maybe with fear, often with disrespect?
Being short has a lot of disadvantages. But, c'mon, it's not a tragedy. There are all kinds of birth defects, besides all the things that can happen due to accidents, inherited deficiencies and abnormalities, taking or being prescribed the wrong medications, surgical mistakes, diseases that can cripple or create issues you are stuck with the rest of your life. Remember the thalidomide babies. Here are some others:
- Spina Bifida. Spina bifida is a neural tube defect that occurs approximately 7 times in every 10,000 pregnancies. ...
- Progeria: Hutchinson-Gilford Progeria Syndrome (HGPS) ...
- Down Syndrome: Trisomy 21. ...
- Congenital Heart Defects. ...
- Cleft Lip and Cleft Palate. ...
- Cerebral Palsy. ...
- Autism. ...
Okay being short stinks. You may well be luckier and better off than many taller people for many reasons. If you are short and completely healthy you are probably luckier than many millions of others regardless of your height disadvantage.
Note: when I say "you" I'm talking about a collective group I'm referring to at the moment. Not an individual member.
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Again you missed my point. They grow cotton and mill it into yarn and weave it into shirts and sell it so they can make a buck. If the GAP, JC Penny, WallMart are missing out on a large segment of the population then they less profitable and not maximizing shareholder value. They all want to make $$$$$$. If opening more short and small stores where profitable they would do so in a heart beat. In fact they do. Go to Asia and they will cater to you. Not a goddamn stitch of clothing to fit me.
I have sat for hours listening to people lecture about demographics and body shapes in a particular region of the country and what they should make in order to maximize profits. You think they sit around and say we don't want the little brown guy's money?
But maybe you have a point. Maybe all the marketing experts and futurists are missing out on a large segment of the population in NA. Maybe you can get a job at the GAP and you can teach them how they can tap into this segment of the population?
Yes I got your point but you seemed to miss my point and I do not blame you only a man who is small and short could understand. Did you even bother to watch this video-> https://vimeo.com/6780321
This is the reality and is pretty much what I have experienced. Logically it makes sense that business are out to make money but I do not think they even consider the short man part of the market. They are just ignored. This is the phenomena of heightism. Think about it they got womens clothes for petite and plus size women. They got mens clothes for regular and big and tall. But what about short and small? They are missing out on a significant portion of the population. Short men either accept to wear ill fitting clothes or get it made to measure. There are many Latino, Asian, and Indian men. Most are short then your typical White male. How will they not make a profit? Average American male height is 5'9" which means about 30% of the male population is under 5'9". How can that not be possibly profitable? Some entrepreneurs have caught on to that and a bunch of specialty stores for short men have come up. There are more and more of those opening each day. Just not in Canada. All US stores. So I have to always order online. For casual clothes I buy from American Apparel and H&M they sell in sizes that fit me length wise. So yes it is getting better but the struggle is still there. As for dating we got to be ten times better then the tall muscle dude. It the reality we live with.
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