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American Politics and Government -- the never-ending struggle

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EagerBeaver

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I was thinking more along the lines of Timothy McVeigh type right wing nutjob, although I mentioned Hinckley because the way that shooting went off I think the SS took some heat afterwards. We are talking political assassination here, not random whacko nutjob shootings as you mentioned.

By the ways Hinckley was trying to impress Jodie Foster when he shot at Reagan. It turns out he has spent over 30 years in prison for trying to impress a lesbian who has no interest in men and never did (in light of Foster's admissions at the GG awards). This is the definition of a whacko nutjob. But my point was directed at the right wing nutjobs a la Timothy McVeigh, which is who Obama might reasonably fear. I think the McVeigh type is more likely to elude SS than the random type whackos you mentioned.
 
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StefanoUS

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I was thinking more along the lines of Timothy McVeigh type right wing nutjob. We are talking political assassination here, not random whacko nutjob shootings as you mentioned. You are in the wrong thread.

Actually the Hinckley shooting of President Reagan was a political assassination so I am in the right thread. Oh that's right, shooting a Republican president doesn't even enter your mind.

Newsfash ... Gabby Giffords is a U.S. Member of the House of Representatives so that was a political assassination as well.
 

EagerBeaver

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Actually, Hinckley came from a Republican family/heavy campaign contributors to Bush and the assassination was not politically motivated. Hinckley sought to impress and gain the affections of Jodie Foster, a confessed lesbian whom he was never going to impress since she does not do men.

The Giffords shooting as I understand it was perpetrated by a person who was adjudged insane and I put that shooting more in the class of insanity as with Adam Lanza.

Timothy McVeigh, on the other hand, was not insane and was executed for his crimes. This is the type of assassin who comes into play here, that the SS has to worry about the most. This is the type of assassin I was talking about- the antigovernment committed right wing nutjob, who is more likely to carry out a reasonably sophisticated political assassination than the other pseudo-assassins you mentioned who were insane persons.
 
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saltydog

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Ft Hood shooter, registered democrat. Columbine shooters, too young to vote, but parents registered democrats. Virginia Tech shooter, wrote hate mail to Bush, registered democrat. Connecticut shooter, registered democrat, hated christians. Also the Gifford shooter while he was determined insane, also a democrat. Maybe we should register democrats and watch them, they seem to be more dangerous than anything else.
 

StefanoUS

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Timothy McVeigh, on the other hand, was not insane and was executed for his crimes.

Maybe McVeigh was found to be sane based on our warped "legal" standard, but anyone that kills 168 people including women and children because he's upset with the federal government is by anyones measure completely insane.

My point is that when Reagan was shot it was not by a right wing nutjob ... which you eluded to in your earlier post as someone to be afraid of: "with all the right wing nutjobs that exist in the world".

That's all, I'm done. Take care.
 

StefanoUS

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Ft Hood shooter, registered democrat. Columbine shooters, too young to vote, but parents registered democrats. Virginia Tech shooter, wrote hate mail to Bush, registered democrat. Connecticut shooter, registered democrat, hated christians. Also the Gifford shooter while he was determined insane, also a democrat. Maybe we should register democrats and watch them, they seem to be more dangerous than anything else.

Wait ... could there actually be left-wing nutjobs? :lol:
 

EagerBeaver

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Left wing nut jobs are not likely going to try and assassinate Obama. This was a discussion of who might try to assassinate Obama based on my observation of him walking down Pennsylvania Avenue flanked only by SS agents. It also occurred to me that a shooter interested in spraying shots with the hopes of hitting something was likely to shoot Michelle Obama as well as they were walking arm in arm. I think when President Kennedy was shot Jacqueline Onassis was lucky not to catch the bullet that ultimately hit John Connolly.
 
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Merlot

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Seriously Beav ... Adam Lanza (Newtown), Jared Lee Loughner (shot Gabby Giffords) and James Holmes (Colorado movie shooter) were right wing nutjobs? None of these dudes had any political vendettas. They had severe mental illness issues.

Guys, guys,

Does it really matter which political sympathies the shooters have? This is just another shell game to avoid blame. We all know where the parties stand and which party the NRA sends it's huge contributions to.

What worries me is the impulse to threaten shootings instead of using the peaceful Democratic process, legal means, and the screamers calling for people to grab their guns. How is that going to pay off when using the gun is the first alternative.

Now another lock down is in progress at this moment at a Texas college where people have been shot yet again. Are you going to point fingers after this? Threaten people's lives at any hint of controlling guns? Or think together and do something real about it.

As the shootings go on it's plain that something is wrong with how guns are obtained legally. Pointing fingers, dodging blame, and crying about 2nd Amendment rights just shows you care more about guns than life.

really,
Merlot
 

oldbutartful

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The NRA keep on about the second amendment in the constitution. They conveniently forget that the second amendment was for slave owners to form a well armed organised militia to enforce slavery. As slavery has ceased to officially exist, and the NRA are not a organised Militia, their argument does not hold water. If we follow the NRA argument down to its logical conclusion all Kids from the age of 5 up will receive Arms training and go to school with Guns in their school bags. I think NRA will soon be the NATIONAL RIDICULOUS ASSOCIATION.
 

Gentle

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Ft Hood shooter, registered democrat. Columbine shooters, too young to vote, but parents registered democrats....

Going on that road if you want to call a cat, a cat ...who started the IRAQ war (on a lie) with 4K+ US Troops dead and 100K+ Iraqis dead ?
Leading a full nation to war on a lie and getting them in all out world war on terrorism is what I call 'Dangerous' !

When I think of all these men and women who went to fight in IRAQ for this mess the REPS did and left behind ?
Some people should be tried, shot or hanged same as in Nuremberg !

This country just like Canada is way too soft with criminals.
Specially when they operate under a political party or umbrella.
 

StefanoUS

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The NRA keep on about the second amendment in the constitution. They conveniently forget that the second amendment was for slave owners to form a well armed organised militia to enforce slavery. As slavery has ceased to officially exist, and the NRA are not a organised Militia, their argument does not hold water. If we follow the NRA argument down to its logical conclusion all Kids from the age of 5 up will receive Arms training and go to school with Guns in their school bags. I think NRA will soon be the NATIONAL RIDICULOUS ASSOCIATION.


Huh? The Second Amendment was added in 1791 and adopted from the 17th C English bill of rights and was NOT written to enforce slavery. LOL

BTW, the NRA members aren't the gang bangers and mental cases creating the problem in our nation.
 

StefanoUS

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As the shootings go on it's plain that something is wrong with how guns are obtained legally. Pointing fingers, dodging blame, and crying about 2nd Amendment rights just shows you care more about guns than life.

really,
Merlot

Merlot, sometimes you have to point fingers. Adam Lanza's mother (Newtown) was in the process of having him committed. She had no trigger guard locks on the firearms and had taken him to the range for instruction on how to use them. Now I ask who is the blame ... the mother or the NRA?
 

Merlot

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...no trigger guard locks...to the range for instruction on how to use them.

Hello StefanoUS,

Here's the problem with your statement.

1. The hardcore pro-gun boys on this board have been saying training to use guns is one key to respecting guns...ie...controlling these gun attacks. The mother was doing exactly what they and the NRA suggests is the best method. Didn't work did it.

2. The NRA has opposed safety measures such as locks on guns. So if the mother had not put them on she again was doing things the way the NRA wants it done.

Several guys I know put their guns in heavy safes bolted to the floor to keep things like unintentional use from happening. What I blame the NRA for is their 100% opposition to every piece of gun legislation regardless of whether it would be effective or not. Has the NRA ever tried to get any gun safety legislation written and passed that they could agree with. They sure have spent millions doing everything possible to block it. Why don't they move in a proactive positive direction to help the problem of gun misuse. Or are they just to afraid of losing membership and money if they ever did anything like that.

Again, finger pointing is only about offering up scapegoats to misdirect the issue so it can be politicized, used to cover the collective asses of all of those responsible for doing nothing about the problem, and divert efforts from doing anything real.

Cheers,

Merlot
 

hungry101

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Now...tell me how could you do something if our government decided to become as crazy as Hitler. What could you do with your guns? Even if we had 252 million gun owners, ie, all adults in the US, which we don't have, it's still a joke to think 252 million can fight against the US government mass destruction warhead inventory.

Yes your right. I would just say Awww fuck it and become a collaberator


That being said, tell us why anybody needs one of these killing machines....for what purpose?.

target shooting at the range
IDPA competitions for 2 gun shoots
500 yard long range shoting comeptitions
Varment hunting
coyote hunting
Deer hunting (note some believe* 5.56 is too small a round but somesportsmen are loading a heavier grain bullet and using them for white tail with great success. My .243 is only slightly larger diameter and bullet weight)
practice for military qualification
protection
collecting


As for why i support a better gun control, I can give you 23 reasons from last month (not back in 1942!!)....if that clown didn't have easy access to an automatic killing machine, he probably would have gone in with a small handgun and 90% of those kids would be alive today.



Alyssa....he did not use an AR-15! He used 4 handguns. That is the MSNBC link that I put in my original post. According to MSNBC the AR-15 never left the car!!!!! That was my point! He shot those kids with handguns. So why are we banning the AR?
 

hungry101

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Hello StefanoUS,


1. The hardcore pro-gun boys on this board have been saying training to use guns is one key to respecting guns...ie...controlling these gun attacks. The mother was doing exactly what they and the NRA suggests is the best method. Didn't work did it.
2. The NRA has opposed safety measures such as locks on guns. So if the mother had not put them on she again was doing things the way the NRA wants it done.

Hardcore on this board? What if I tried to outlaw your tofu?

I am one of those guys with a gunsafe bolted to the floor and no one knows the combination to the safe besides me. If I die you can find my combination in the safe deposit box. Whu didn't this woman with the nut job kid do the same?

Stop calling gun bans gun safety!
 

shijak

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GAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSPPPPPPPPP:eek:

http://swampland.time.com/2013/01/22/liberal-the-new-crossroads-gps-spot/

check out the shameless ad our old buddy Karl ''the new P.T. Barnum'' Rove got the bucks to make that accuses Obama of the worst crime in all of America...

(as opposed to the public faces of George Bush and what was Mitt Romney who tried to appear more middle-of-the-road but privately did or were going to push through extreme right policies...):mad:
 

shijak

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Hardcore on this board? What if I tried to outlaw your tofu?

I am one of those guys with a gunsafe bolted to the floor and no one knows the combination to the safe besides me. If I die you can find my combination in the safe deposit box. Whu didn't this woman with the nut job kid do the same?

Stop calling gun bans gun safety!

Hungry, would you have been one of the people outraged back in the 70s when Ralph Nader pushed to get seatbelt usage mandatory in the US to help save american lives?... The man kept seeing so many lives needlessly lost because of the public and the automobile industry's apathy... He wrote a book in the mid-60's that is illuminating:

Before Nader's 1965 book, Unsafe at Any Speed, car dashboards were usually made of metal. Seat belts were available only at exotic auto parts stores, where they were expensive and customers had to bolt them to the car's floorboards. Even at low speeds, a car wreck could propel passengers into the metal dashboard or snap the driver's neck on the metal steering wheel. At mid-speed wrecks (say, 20 miles an hour), passengers could be thrown into the windshield, which was made of "safety glass" that could chisel a passenger's face and body. Car doors were not attached to the car's body firmly enough to withstand collision forces, and would often pop open or off in an accident, which would instantly make the car's frame (and the passengers inside) much more likely to be crumpled by the crash.

Do you know how long it took before action was seriously taken to save lives, and nowadays there is no one around to protest the mandatory seatbelt law, and all the other safety features we now completely take for granted? here we go:

In 1984 New York State passed the first US law requiring seat belt use in passenger cars. Seat belt laws have since been adopted by all 50 states, except for New Hampshire.[43] and NHTSA estimates increased seat belt use as a result save 10,000 per year in the USA

It took 20 years!!!!!!!! 20 years to do what saves an estimated 10000 lives per year in the US alone!!!

Now here is a President wanting to do something to help save 11 000 lives per year, MANY of them children that are needlessly lost because YOU and all the other gun nuts...

Yes, GUN NUTS, because all you see is your own personal needs ahead of the greater good. We present you with a definite problem, that innocents are constantly killed every year, and you can't see two feet beyond your own needs...

What, you think back in the 60's and 70's there weren't a ton of automobile enthousiasts who were totally outraged with having to pay more for non-metallic dashboards, anti-lock brakes, seatbelts, and everything else that is standard in today's cars? All the while going out to drive with their wives in the passenger seat holding their infant babies in their arms, heading out to the country at 65 miles per hour in the snowy winter? (''Stop taking away my freedom!! I am a safe driver and have never had or caused an accident! Not my fault all these other people can't drive their god-given automobiles!!'')

Funny that, I'm sure you can't imagine yourself nowadays heading out in your car to the nearby store without clicking on your seatbelt, right?

How many people will needlessly die before you and CS finally open your eyes and admit there is a problem and that you are part of it, and NOT of the solution?
 

shijak

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hungry101

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The media and the administration have an agenda and it is gun control. 360+ people were murdered in Detroit last year and not one murder that I can remember made national news. Chicago which has the strictest gun control had over 500 people murdered but you do not hear any of this on the National news (The only difference in Chicago is that the good guys can't shoot back because they have been disarmed by their governnment). You never hear about a CPL holder defending himself or a homeowner defending themselves against an intruder. What plays with the lunatic left wing media is when a CPL holder shoots someone under questionable circumstances or if someone runs amuck in a school or any other stories that pushes the left wing agenda.

If you believe in fairy tales then you may think that there will be gun control and everyone will turn in their guns and we will live happily ever after. Only the good guys will turn in their guns and not the bad guys. Young thugs would be able to prey on the old and infirm and women with impunity.

Police carry guns to protect themselves and not us!

The massacre at Sandy Hook was probably the most heinous crime since 911 but the nut case was not carrying an AR-15! It was in the car!
 

StefanoUS

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Here, take a gander at this now
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...llege-texasbre90l0xq-20130122,0,1749868.story

This is not the first, not the second, nor the third or the fourth, but the FIFTH school-related shooting that has occured within the continental US since the first of january of 2013...

Fuck , we're not even in february yet!!

But noooo, there is no gun problem in the US...

These shootings are the result of mentally unstable individuals. They should NOT have guns, no argument there.

But while everyone is condeming the NRA, take a look at what's on TV tonight or in the movies. Killing, murder, shooting ... pure violence that our youth has been weened on and polarized to a point that seeing someone shot on a TV show or movie doesn't even phase them. I won't even get into the video games and cop killer music but you get the idea. Think about it. Guns were easier to obtain in the U.S. fifty years ago, so why is our society so f'kd up today?
 
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