More than 30,000 persons died last year because of all kind of guns. And its not enough sales gun are goiing through the roof right now.
Another mass shooting in the USA
- Thread starter smuler
- Start date
You're certainly right that laws can't stop everything but, as you point out, but they clearly help. Virtually every country that has enacted strict gun control has seen a reduction in gun violence. I find it utterly bizarre that some in this thread suggest that laws do nothing. By that logic, we don't need laws against lynching, or domestic abuse, or child pornography, or simple theft. I pay my taxes because there are laws, I stop at stop signs because of laws, etc. Laws are reflections of cultural priorities, making clear to all that a culture rejects certain behaviors as unacceptable. They are part of the process of identifying and changing cultural values. Do child pornography laws stop the stop all the circulation of illegal materials? No, of course not. Do they help limit it, and send a message that the state is serious about limiting it? Obviously. The references in this thread to laws about prostitution miss the point: those laws are not aggressive laws with serious penalties (mostly amounting to shaming, with limited jail time), and the state is basically saying tsk, tsk. As in, "we disapprove but have more serious issues to worry about." Those serious issues might include gun violence (but they generally don't, in the US). By the way, my guess is that most of the pro-gun statements here are from US citizens. Canada has a small fraction of the gun violence that the US does, and the obvious reason is better gun control. Finally, I do understand that people *feel* safer with guns on their bedside tables and on their persons; that's a reasonable feeling. But the truth is that people with guns in their homes are far more likely to be involved in gun related violence than those that don't. Basic facts, basic reality.
You are too fixated on ISIS-type terrorism. That is not the issue at all[SUP]1[/SUP] :
We should instead focus on the more than 10,000 killed every year in the US by gun violence.
References:
http://www.vox.com/2015/10/1/9437187/obama-guns-terrorism-deaths - Deaths from gun violence vs. deaths from terrorism, in one chart
No, we shouldn't focus on it when this particular tragedy was due to a terrorist action falling closely on the heels of a similar terrorist action in Paris. We are talking about well financed terrorists with money and preparation and plans, not ordinary street criminals or mentally unstable individuals who do not have the money to easily evade any laws that might be standing in their way.
Crime in the USA has dropped sharply since the 1990s, in case you are unaware, and is now at the levels it was at back in the 1960s. In Los Angeles homicide detectives are being given cold cases because they don't have anything to do. Michael Connelly just wrote a book about it called The Burning Room.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States
Crime in the USA has dropped sharply since the 1990s, in case you are unaware, and is now at the levels it was at back in the 1960s. In Los Angeles homicide detectives are being given cold cases because they don't have anything to do. Michael Connelly just wrote a book about it called The Burning Room.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States
I may have missed it since i was reading the thread quickly, but the truth of the matter is that Americans are their own worse enemies. The biggest killers of Americans are Americans. No different than the biggest killers of muslims, which also happen to be muslims. There are over 300 million guns and other types of firearms around the US. Suspected terrorists (and others) who are on no-fly lists still have the right to legally purchase and own firearms. You could also make a case that the Unites States are a haven for terrorists wishing to purchase guns legally (and illegally).
This is a big reason why not a single person i know would ever dream of ever moving to the States, although it was once a great country. Sure, the weather is nice & all that, but its society in general is very sick. Crime rates are still high and it has the highest prison population on the planet. Something like 2% of the entire population owns something like 90% of the nation's entire wealth, most of the politicians are owned by billionaire donors and special interest groups, a wealthy country like China could also potentially buy their way into the Presidency, etc. I could go on and on....
This statement has utterly no basis in reality since there are literally millions of people paying their life savings to get into the USA illegally. I have personally taken depositions of nonlegal residents (my state has a large population of illegals mostly from Mexico and South America) whom I questioned under oath about how they got into this country. They paid all the money they had, sometimes as much as $25,000, to get into the US in order to work $15 an hour construction jobs, or less money cutting grass and waiting tables. Which is better than what they had where they came from. In my state the entire restaurant and landscaping industries are built on the backs of illegal, cash-under-the-table aliens who have no desire to go back to where they came from and are happy to be here (the construction industry to a lesser extent- but more and more new houses are going up in the beach community where I live and when I walk by those worksites I only hear one language getting spoken and it is Spanish). Most of them are extremely hard working and some of them, especially those in the restaurant business, have become remarkably successful. There are two owners of restaurants in my community, who come from Ecuador and Colombia, and they have become filthy rich due to the success of their restaurants. These guys came to the USA with nothing in their pockets.
The New York Times posted the following Editorial on their Front Page. They haven't had an Editorial on the Front Page since 1920 (95 yrs). End the Gun Epidemic in America
The New York Times said:
These forums are places to pound the tables, not make compelling arguments, but it would still be helpful if we could be responsible in our conversation. Doc Holliday (who doesn't need me pointing this out) said that he didn't know a single person who would dream of moving to the States. He didn't say that no one in the world wants to move to the US; he said he didn't know anyone. How can he be wrong about the people he knows? Why would you insult his understanding of his own reality? I have many friends and relatives in Canada, and none of them are talking about moving to the US.
Doc happens to be a friend of mine and his own personal reality isn't the reality of what life is like for most people who come to the USA or the economic reality of most people in the world who come to the USA. So his statement does have to be weighed against that reality because there are millions of people pouring into the USA for a better life and achieving a better life, and it's not like we can just ignore this. Most Canadians I have met, even educated ones, have a brainwashed view of the USA due to the mass media which doesn't really portray things terribly accurately. While the issue of gun control has become a hot button topic I view it largely as an irrelevant issue with regard to the facts of this particular shooting under discussion in this thread, for some of the reasons already stated. This shooting and the one in Paris were not getting stopped and gun control wasn't getting them stopped.
Exactly! I indeed did specify that i personally didn't know a single person who would want to move to the States. I'd also want to point out that the numbers now show more Mexican immigrants are moving back to Mexico than coming in. I'd also like to point out that i personally know a few Americans who are considering a move to Canada. I also know several who could be considered 'illegal aliens' since they practically live in Canada now. It's a good thing most of them are law-abiding citizens (although Bill C-36 could change this perception) or else they'd risk being sent back to the States and be permanently banned from re-entering Canada.
p.s. By the way, EB is indeed a friend of mine. Nothing he could ever say to me i'd take as an insult. Thanks anyway for sticking up for me by correctly pointing out what i had said.
and I thought the NYT front page was for promoting needless wars resulting in death and suffering infinitely worse than domestic killing sprees??? http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/08/international/middleeast/08IRAQ.html?ex=1121140800&en=76eddceb628af81e&ei=5070&pagewanted=1
For this "news organization" to claim moral outrage is as hypocritical as you can get. I don't believe there are any easy answers but it doesn't help the pro control argument when blatantly obvious scoundrels are pushing it.
.....in other news, the US is running out of bombs to drop on ISIS:
US running out of bombs to drop on ISIS
Another giant military jobs program......
US running out of bombs to drop on ISIS
Another giant military jobs program......
Just my opinion. Gun control will not stop criminals from having guns unless you outlaw them completely ( which will never happen ), if someone wants to kill someone and no gun is available a bomb, knife or baseball bat is always available so believing that gun control will stop killings, well maybe just a little.
Now for the mass shootings..... I am all in favor of letting Putin, Hollande and Xi Jinping do their thing.... no issue at all, it has to be done. Shit like this has to stop... http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/12/0...d-soldiers-through-hunger-games-type-training . Pisses me off that the US knows where and when the terrorists are moving and do not act on it, carpet bomb the area, serious. What also pisses me off is that the environmental fucktards are starting to blame some of the terrorist acts on the farce called man made climate change...... Just to squeese a few more tax dollars out of us no doubt.
Again, these are just my opinions and am not affiliated with any known cross dressing midget wrestling team.
Enjoy the day
Now for the mass shootings..... I am all in favor of letting Putin, Hollande and Xi Jinping do their thing.... no issue at all, it has to be done. Shit like this has to stop... http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/12/0...d-soldiers-through-hunger-games-type-training . Pisses me off that the US knows where and when the terrorists are moving and do not act on it, carpet bomb the area, serious. What also pisses me off is that the environmental fucktards are starting to blame some of the terrorist acts on the farce called man made climate change...... Just to squeese a few more tax dollars out of us no doubt.
Again, these are just my opinions and am not affiliated with any known cross dressing midget wrestling team.
Enjoy the day
Its not only criminals kids are killing kids every week with guns not store correctly Why do you need assault weapons in your house? Do you need a gun to by some milk like a saw in Arizona?
Josh Freed has an excellent article in today's Gazette on the enigma of American society's twilight-zone attitude toward guns:
http://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...mes-to-guns-our-u-s-neighbours-are-mystifying - Josh Freed: When it comes to guns, our U.S. neighbours are mystifying
Here are some interesting quotes from the article:
http://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...mes-to-guns-our-u-s-neighbours-are-mystifying - Josh Freed: When it comes to guns, our U.S. neighbours are mystifying
Here are some interesting quotes from the article:
You know, it's great to be reminded that behind the posts are good people, even friends, even if they have different approaches to issues. It's easy to see posts as being anonymous, and even for us to hide behind that anonymity. Maybe someday I'll make it to a meet and greet and buy you and EB a beer--or a whisky.
Obama's Legacy - He inherited something he didn’t like so his reaction is to pull all the US troops out of Iraq. He did this to keep a campaign promise. He created a power vacuum and he created Isis who he referred to as the “JV team.”
The stupid, stupid ass of socialist blames terrorism on Global Warming? What a crock of shit. If Ocommunist gets his wish and creates all the new taxes and carbon credits etc. etc. it will account for .17 of a degree in the next 100 years?
This is insane. I am still waiting for the White House to say this was an act of terror. How many pipe bombs do you have to have in your garage until you are considered a terrorist? Instead, the Attorney General is worried about a backlash against Islam? And the LA Director of CAIR is blaming Americans for fueling terrorism? Our president can't even utter the words Islamic Terrorism. Meanwhile, a neighbor to the Jihady couple saw suspicious behavior but didn't have the courage to call the police because she didn't want to be accused of racial profiling? I thought this was crazy but I had to stop and think. Remember the little terrorist in the making whose activist Muslim father had him bring a clock to school in a briefcase. Did you guys see that clock? It would be insane not to call the police and Obama invites the little terrorist in the making to the White House????? They are suing the school system for 15 million USD$ And they will probably get it. Political correctness is going to be the death of this country.
I agree that Obama inherited something that he did not like. Though, I am sure that you are smart enough to realize that the terrorist attacks made by isis have nothing to do with Islam. Muslims are the first victims of isis attacks as some guy said above. Ironically, Russia looks like the only country who is fighting the terrorists of isis right now. For the rest, just follow the money. How did a group of terrorists manage to thrive in such a short time lapse? Qatar and Saudi Arabia come to my stupid mind, but I am stupid.
This guy makes it sound like there are no guns in Canada or something in the possession of a rare few. Not the case. Canada ranks 12th in the world in gun ownership with some 10 million guns in the hands of Canadians. Myself I own several guns, nothing embarrassing about it. The USA however has about 112 guns for every 100 individuals, so it actually has more guns than people. Its not the guns that create terrorism or hostility, its the nature of the environment in the USA. Just too many people with different opinions, different backgrounds, too much inequality, racism, discrimination, bullying, and so on and so on. Mix all that with a people with some of the lowest IQs in the developed world and you have a problem. There has been over 300 mass shootings in the US this year alone, not because of guns or terrorism, but because of all the internal conflicts that nation is facing and its going to get worse. Get out while you still can.
