Commons committee abolishing prostitution laws

[2fast2slow]

apparantly a commons committee is about the release its findings and suggest to the government to abolish all laws pertaining to prostitution and focus LE energies on underage exploitation.
If this ever were to move forward it would still probably take years to actually change the laws but it is promissing...
I wonder how this affect the sex trade here in Montreal?

 

[Bruce34]

Prostitution becoming legal is our downside

Of course all SP's say that legalise prostitution is the next best thing. They will be recognised as any other profession and will have health protections instead of being marginalised.
What about us? Well it brings tourism and surely make it look good on our city, besides having pot and married your gay friend the next day, you can ask anyone for sex. But not to forget, legalising prostitution means that you will get a receipt with a 15% increase.
Ah this is one good long debate to go on.

 

[eastender]

Politicians

Does this mean that politicians,mandarins,bureaucrats and the like will be out of work?

 

[HonestAbe]

Legal

Is Marijuana legal in Montreal? Gay marriage as well? Didn't know that if so.

I don't see how getting rid of all laws regarding prostitution and concentrating on exploitation of underage could be bad. The Sp's would benefit from better working conditions and be better protected by LE. No more worries about Bawdy houses so Incall would become huge business. Imagine not having to go to a hotel(unecessary expense) or have her come to your place(possible embarassment). Simply walk down the street and into your local brothel where you would have a large variety of girls to choose from right in front of your eyes, no more bait and switch or no shows. No more telephone bills listing calls to agencies that your new girlfriend might mistakenly come across.

 

[Canadian Joe 652]

True

Yes it i true HA, you can smoke a jont if you can actually get your hands on some of that Marijuana been grown by the Canadian goverment for medical purposes I do not know in which undergorund mine in I do not know which province?

The reality is that pot is not legal, the sale is still ilegal, possesion of a small amount deemed for personal use is decriminalized, translation:

If you have a small amount on you, you do not get a record, worst case scenario you get summon and get what we call administrative punishment but no record. Still buying, selling and using it (outside the Health Canada program that authorizes its use in certain circunstances) is still ilegal.

As for the whole gay marriage thing, yes it is true.

 

[Magda]

What we are looking for is decriminalisation, not legalization, as it is ALREADY legal. It is the practice of communication for the purpose of prostitution that is actually illegal. Thus, this makes sex work much more dangerous due to the inability to screen clients properly. So, don't worry about tax charge just yet.

I believe that the Minister of the Status of Women in Canada (Liza Frulla) along with different sex work organizations across the country are looking at the issues. I know that they had all met last March, a meeting I could not attend, but I did send written supportive arguments for the pro side - pun intened !

 

[Sadie]

Legalisation and Decriminalisation are different

Bruce: Actually, I disagree that there will be an increase in price. On the contrary, in the States prostitution is extremely illegal, and MUCH more lucrative, with that it comes with the risk of the law.

Also, I disagree that most escorts want it legalised. I think that most want it decriminalised, but with legalisation comes tax returns, declarations, etc etc etc.

Magda: Okay, maybe now I am a bit mixed up. In Australia it is 'legalised', which means that people have to pay their taxes, declare everything. My friend works as a stripper in Sydney, she makes good money, but must declare every cent of it. Same with working in Brothels or Dungeons there. So maybe we are using different words here. I thought that decriminalisation meant no jail time, sometimes fines, like marijuana. And that legalisation means making it totally legit.

I do think it will decrease the stigma though, and make it safer for everyone involved.

Eastender: I think it means that politicians and the like will start claiming their 'entertainment' purchases for taxation rebates.

HonestAbe: It is legal to smoke a joint, but not to carry it around in your pocket. It is legal to have 3 or 4 little plants.

Gay marriage is not. But you can go to Ontario.

Sadie

 

[metoo4]

Wasn't Québec the first province to accept gay marriage? I have a few gay friends who are now legally married in Québec. One of these couple was the second in the province to do it.

 

[Seska]

I attended the first marriage between two men in Quebec. Definitely legal. It was at the courthouse!

 

[Elvis]

La loi c'est la loi...

Personnellement, je jure que je quitte le "hobby" si cela devient "décriminalisé" et "légalisé".

Où serait le plaisir?? Pensez-y!!

Enfin... je ne me vois pas DU TOUT payer la TPS et la TVQ pour un massage à ma masseuse préférée qui est probablement entrée illégalement au pays avec de faux papiers et une fausse identité et qui doit certainement payer son personnel au noir...

Elvis

 

[Techman]

Personnellement, je jure que je quitte le "hobby" si cela devient "décriminalisé" et "légalisé".

Où serait le plaisir?? Pensez-y!!

Elvis

I would think that the pleasure comes from spending time with a beautiful woman. If it's just the illegality of the situation that turns you on you could always try robbing a bank to pay the 15% increase from taxes.

 

[HonestAbe]

Questions

It is the practice of communication for the purpose of prostitution that is actually illegal. Thus, this makes sex work much more dangerous due to the inability to screen clients properly.

Magda,

I have always been under the impression that (private)communication over the phone for outcall is totally legal, however, communication in public for the purposes of prostitution was illegal. Am I wrong?

Another question for us to ponder, and hopefully to be answered:

Living off the avails of prostitution is illegal, correct? So doesn't it stand to reason that only the owner can be found guilty of this "crime"? Or is it that the client and Sp can both be held somehow complicit since the service was booked through an agency?

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

I believe the term 'decriminalization' refers to removing laws from the Criminal Code. In Canada this would involve getting rid of the common bawdy-house, procuring/living on the avails of prostitution, and maybe public communicating laws. I assume there would still be criminal laws about coercion and using underaged workers.

This would then be followed by the lower levels of government, possibly the provinces, but almost certainly the cities, then enacting their own regulations regarding where and how they would allow the business to operate. This is what happened in New Zealand in 2003. I suppose this could be called legalization.

Some people, particularly Valerie Scott on spoc.ca (see Decriminalization vs. Legalization), use the two words to describe the difference between a system with few regulations and one with too many regulations.

I've read a few things about Australia and looked at the message board on australianescorts.com, and I don't really see the huge differences between Sydney (New South Wales) and Melbourne (Victoria) she describes. Sydney may not have an actual licensing system for brothels, but they definitely have laws that make some brothels legal and others illegal. And it appears some SPs will move back and forth between Sydney and Melbourne, so it doesn't look like they find one place to be much better than the other.

 

[naughtylady]

In Canada, when government talks of decriminalisation, they are refering to the removal of criminal laws.

When they talk about legalisation, they are implying that they would remove the criminal laws, and issue new laws to regulate.

Most Sex Workers are not interested in legalisation as much as decriminalisation. If government gets involved in managing our sex industry, they will in effect be in our bedrooms, excatly where we don't want them. (Imagine bawdy houses needing a way to contact all clients in case an infection is detected in order to contact all possible infected persons? ...imagine the wrong person picking up that phone call or opening that letter?!) (Or imagine forcing all clients to have blood and urine tests before having any contact with the SP.)

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[joeblow]

I am a marijuana producer. My business is illegal. I want the government to decriminalize the production, marketing and sale of marijuana because I'm tired of being hassled by LE. Besides, so many people enjoy my product that I really don't see why it is still illegal. People use my product to party, escape their dreary lives, enhance their fantasies. Even cancerous patients toke up to abate their suffering. So I think I'm doing a real public service. And hey, it's my living too.

But I don't want marijuana to be legalized. I don't want pesky bureaucrats coming onto my farm to test the quality of my product. Public health is their business, not mine. I want to continue selling my product as is, without being accountable to anyone. Also, I don't want to pay income tax. Income tax is for other people, not for me. I wan't to continue using my medicare card, which is my birthright, but I want other dumb taxpayers to foot my share of the bill.

Now you understand why I want decriminalization, but not legalization.

 

[The Woodworker]

I am a marijuana producer. My business is illegal. I want the government to decriminalize the production, marketing and sale of marijuana because I'm tired of being hassled by LE. Besides, so many people enjoy my product that I really don't see why it is still illegal. People use my product to party, escape their dreary lives, enhance their fantasies. Even cancerous patients toke up to abate their suffering. So I think I'm doing a real public service. And hey, it's my living too.

But I don't want marijuana to be legalized. I don't want pesky bureaucrats coming onto my farm to test the quality of my product. Public health is their business, not mine. I want to continue selling my product as is, without being accountable to anyone. Also, I don't want to pay income tax. Income tax is for other people, not for me. I wan't to continue using my medicare card, which is my birthright, but I want other dumb taxpayers to foot my share of the bill.

Now you understand why I want decriminalization, but not legalization.

Lots of people like Cocaine too....

I don't really want to pay income tax either. As a dumb taxpayer, however, I pay for that medicare card you so cherish. I also pay for all the welfare programs out there, most of which are used by perfectly healthy people who are perfactly able to work. Oh, yes, it's hard getting up in the morning and having to give up free time... I think instead of giving money to them, they should be given jobs, even if they pay very little.

If I don't work, I don't eat. Why don't you ask the government for a grant? Maybe they'll give you some money. And thanks for the lesson on decriminialization and legalization.

Public service? Right... I think you smoked too much of something. You should feel lucky to have that medicare card, just look at what's going on in the world right now.

Yes, you're a real world saviour... well, you know where you can stick your public service.

 

[HonestAbe]

Serious?

I don't want marijuana to be legalized.. I don't want to pay income tax. Income tax is for other people, not for me. I wan't to continue using my medicare card, which is my birthright, but I want other dumb taxpayers to foot my share of the bill.

Now you understand why I want decriminalization, but not legalization.

JB,

Is this a "tongue in cheek" remark?

I have to say that I support legalization rather than decriminalization since I don't like being the "dumb" guy who pays my taxes while others cheat on theirs and burden the system without contributing their fair share. Prostitution and Marijuana should both be LEGAL. Cheating on your taxes is a crime as well as unfair to your fellow citizens. You can debate all day as to what you disagree with your tax money being spent on but fact is that you don't get a direct choice in the matter and you shouldn't.

Your "choice" is to vote for those who share your philosophical views and hope that they spend tax revenues in a way you agree with, but no one is supposed to be able to pick and choose. Imagine if everyone could pick and choose what their tax money went too or how much they should pay versus someone else. It would completely undermine the authority of the Government and result in Anarchy. Most of us would not like anarchy one bit, let alone survive in it.

Other issues brought up here are irrelevant to the argument over decriminalization vs. legalization for this simple reason, the Government wants its tax money and its completely unrealistic to think that they will allow this industry to flourish under "decriminalization" while getting no revenue out of it. I can only imagine how easy it would be to round up nearly every single Sp, Mp, Stripper, and agency owner after the first tax year expired under a "decriminalized" environment and audit all of them til they know exactly what is in the deepest recesses of your colon! You may continue to hope, but from a realistic point of view, don't count on it.

 

[joeblow]

Is this a "tongue in cheek" remark?

Of course it is! I thought that was obvious, but apparently it wasn't obvious enough to our Woodworker friend.

I have to say that I support legalization rather than decriminalization since I don't like being the "dumb" guy who pays my taxes while others cheat on theirs and burden the system without contributing their fair share. Prostitution and Marijuana should both be LEGAL. Cheating on your taxes is a crime as well as unfair to your fellow citizens. You can debate all day as to what you disagree with your tax money being spent on but fact is that you don't get a direct choice in the matter and you shouldn't.

Your "choice" is to vote for those who share your philosophical views and hope that they spend tax revenues in a way you agree with, but no one is supposed to be able to pick and choose. Imagine if everyone could pick and choose what their tax money went too or how much they should pay versus someone else. It would completely undermine the authority of the Government and result in Anarchy. Most of us would not like anarchy one bit, let alone survive in it.

Totally agree. I just wanted to express those ideas in the form of a caricature.

 

[The Woodworker]

Ummmm.... er....

Ahem. Right. Uh, I had a feeling something like this might happen. Too much coffee this morning? Not enough? I'm not sure, all I know is I let my emotions get the better of me.

Still, I'm happy to read it was tongue in cheek. Where would we be without satire and humour? On the other hand, it was a great way to differentiate between legalization and decriminalization.

My apologies, Joeblow, for my quick reaction. HonestAbe had the presence of mind to ask the question I should have asked. This is often how trouble starts.

Of course, if you were serious, I believe my reaction would have been justified

 

[Magda]

Just because either prostitution or marijuana is decriminalized rather than legalized, does not mean that the taxes can conveniently be evaded. As someone mentioned upthread, even ILLEGAL businesses can be taxed. Making the business of prostitution decriminalized rather than legalized simply allows SP's to go about their business without incrimination or fear of incarceration.

Legalization will effectively put the government in a position of a bureaucratic pimp. We DO NOT want this. However, if prostitution is completely decriminalized, then SPs will be in control of thir own bodies and businesses. This does not mean that SPs will be able to evade taxes at all.