downtown student protests - outcall disruptions

[daydreamer41]

Excuse moi, gugu. If you read my post, you will see that I listed 6 public or state supported schools from around the US, and 6 private schools. These were 2012 tuitions, but the tuition rise has been around 6 percent per year. So it can't be more than 20 percent higher from 2009?

I selected 2012 tuition from different schools because that's the data I have available. I know what tuition is in the US, because I have friends and co-workers who pay it for their kids. If I were to pick 100 public schools and 100 private schools, I would have gotten the same numbers.

I included links for number that I threw around. I don't see any sources from the false $6,500 number that your link somehow computed.

6,500 from your figure x .20 would be 1,300 or 7,800. Tuition in the US is a lot higher than an average of 7,800. As I said, the tuition at my local Community College is $7100 per year. This school is heavily subsidized by the taxpayer and receives some large grants from local corporations.

And you know what? I have no idea of what you are trying to say in your second paragraph.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Excuse moi, gugu. If you read my post, you will see that I listed 6 public or state supported schools from around the US, and 6 private schools. These were 2012 tuitions, but the tuition rise has been around 6 percent per year. So it can't be more than 20 percent higher from 2009?

And why are you using the US as an example? Why not a country that believes in education as a right rather than a privilege? If you want to use a country as an example, you should reach high, not grovel in the dirt, no?

 

[lgna69xxx]

It's called inflation, welcome to reality. How about all the years they were paying peanuts for tuition? (which they still would be with this hike compared to just about everywhere else mentioned in this thread). Newsflash, we all have to suffer with EVERYTHING going up so why are "they" any better than anyone else? Many college students outside of Quebec or in the USA for example, have to have a part to full time job to help put themselves thru school when their parents cant or wont pay for everything. Maybe it's time they stop protesting and get back in school and suck it up before they end up causing hard working people hardship that this protest will eventually cause and likely already has for some.

I have ofton had sp's and lady friends who work in the sex business in Montreal tell me they were doing it to put themselves thru University. I never realised how dirt cheap it is to go to school in Quebec so now it makes sense why some of them only work for a few months and quit, since they can make tuition in that short amount of time being a escort or stripper. These students dont realise how good they have had it for a long long time and are spoiled rotten by the tuition costs, They are like third world costs compared to the US and other places. On the other hand, I agree there are nice "sights" at some of these protests. Always a positive in a negative situation boys

To answer the original posters ?'in. It is inevitable that this has or will delay the on time delivery of your "date", sometimes.

while I feel the students (if you leave out the effects of Bill 78) are being excessive, sometimes grossly so, because the overall average cost of education will remain a bargain, a 75% increase in just 5-7 years is nothing to sneer about. The salesman ploy of saying it's just a dollar a day or $5 a day after 5 years does still mean the total cost is nearly doubling after that time.

Cheers Merlot

 

[MtlNewbie]

I've been discouraged from going to Cleo's for the last five years because of the women there.



Oh? Can you give some examples of this "extreme" violence? Are you referring to the banging of pots and pans? Or perhaps you're referring to the police beating on demonstrators, but really there's not even a whole lot of that.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but all of your replies are a perfect example of why I say this topic can't be discussed. Everyone is far to entrenched in their opinion. I say protesters are painting cars red, throwing bricks through windows, dropping rocks on cars coming out of the underpass at Viger, throwing molotov cocktails at police at Rene levesque and st. laurent, and you say this is all made up, the media is making this up, like we're in Iraq and Chemical Ali is on the news. No, you say the police are just beating up protestors as if the entire police force is getting suited up every night saying, let's go beat up some students, I'd rather do this and be at risk then sit at home and spend time with my family. Yup, the entire police force has that mentality. You realize with all these small demonstrations (I live on the corner of Parc Lafontaine so I see multiple demonstrations per day), if the police weren't there closing off the streets ahead, that these guys would be run over by cars.

Having a rational conversation is not possible on this subject because everyone just brings up whatever facts they want to. What are you going to say when I say these protesters blocked access to CEGEP Lionel Groulx and went through UQAM disrupting classes, which is EXACTLY opposite to their supposed goal of making post-secondary education accessible? The media made it up?

 

[daydreamer41]

And why are you using the US as an example? Why not a country that believes in education as a right rather than a privilege? If you want to use a country as an example, you should reach high, not grovel in the dirt, no?

Since you loathe the US so much, maybe you should move to Canada permanently and offer to kick some of the tons of $ you have accumulated from being an entrepreneur in the US and donate it to the poor Montreal students.

What's $325 to you? A couple of hours of Escorting time? You could layoff escorting for a month and support an entire Sociology class, rumps.

I think you should defect to Canada.

 

[lgna69xxx]

MtlNewbie, your post makes more sense than anyone's in the thread.

 

[daydreamer41]

MtlNewbie, sounds like the little kids are doing more than banging their pots and pans.

They sound like the Occupy crowd with all of that violence.

I second lgna's assessment. Great post. You have told us the truth.

 

[lgna69xxx]

HAHA........ oh i wanna say something so bad but i promised the mods to be on my best behavior..... we can all imagine tho

Thumbs up Rump

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

I say protesters are painting cars red, throwing bricks through windows, dropping rocks on cars coming out of the underpass at Viger, throwing molotov cocktails at police at Rene levesque and st. laurent, and you say this is all made up, the media is making this up.

Where in the press have you read about rocks dropped from bridges, molotov cocktails thrown at police? Please provide examples. Sounds to me like you're making it up, not the media. I read the Gazette every day and I've read of no such thing.

As for a handful of assholes amid the thousands and thousands of peaceful protesters, I'm afraid that's always to be expected. Unfortunately, guys like you want to paint the tens of thousands with the same brush as the handful of assholes.

 

[MtlNewbie]

And why are you using the US as an example? Why not a country that believes in education as a right rather than a privilege? If you want to use a country as an example, you should reach high, not grovel in the dirt, no?

OH, I love this one! Why compare us to the other provinces or the US? What about denmark? Why not denmark?!

Ok, first of all students that get their undergrad from McGill go on to schools like Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Berkely, etc. I know people at all of these school who did their undergrad at McGill. If you go to a school like Calgary and you get a 4.0, you won't go to any of those top ranked schools. You'll go to McGill for grad school. How do I know this? I did my undergrad there and I dont' know a single person who went to any of the top American schools and I was at the top of my class and guess where I ended up. So students at McGill are paying less for their tuition and receiving a superior product. Now, name a university in Denmark or the Netherlands. I can't name any and I don't know anyone from any of these schools at top universities. CLASSE has demanded a freeze to research spending, expansion and wages to fund free tuition. Where will this leave our education system? Will anyone even want a degree from these universities if all good researchers and professors leave because there's no funding and no raises?

Next, if you think free tuition should be a right, do you think free tuition will not have any changes to the current system, aside from free tuition? the quality will be the same? the same amount of spaces, the same entry requirments? I know someone who studied in Denmark, you can't drag out a 4 year degree to 4.1 or 6 years! You have to finish in 4! You also can't fail anything, you have to work your butt off to not fail with a full course load. Now go ahead and say that everyone here finishes on time with a full courseload...

Finally, why do you consider education at present to be a privledge? My parents didn't help me 1 cent with my education, they make combined less than 40k per year. If you are admitted, you can get loans from the government, interests free, to live and pay your tuition. That's what I did. What is the privledge that I was born into to be able to attend university? Please explain. If you want something, usually you have to make sacrifices, that's why I had to stay in Calgary and live with my parents. Loans don't pay for you to live away from home unless there's no univerisity in your city. Also, during the 4 months of summer, you get as many jobs as possible and save up your money so you can pay for your Iphone and data plan and drinking.

Why do people want a post-secondary education? In general, because you hope to have a brighter future, you want a better job, you will have more opportunities, you can be a doctor, lawyer, professor, teacher, scientist. So why would anyone feel this is not worth paying for? This is investing in yourself. If you don't think it's worth it then don't. This is the exact same thing as owning a franchise or business, you have to put up money, otherwise we'd all own a franchise and be raking in the dough. We should all be making money without putting in any money. On top of this, if this was the case, who would even work in our franchise? There would be no workers because everyone would have their own free business!

 

[Siocnarf]

Today, most of the professors teach 1 or maybe 2 courses per semester. And most of them are not doing research. The Universities want them to publish books or journals. Publishing gives them notoriety. The students are paying for this frivolousness.

University is not just a place of teaching, but a place where new knowledge is discovered. Any department with a graduate program does some research, whether in philosophy or medicine. What do you think they put in their books and journal? A professor may teach only a few classes, but will direct many full-time Ph.D student. The more they publish, the more funding they get and the more research they can do.

 

[evillethings]

anyone who lives in Quebec should back the students. all they've asked for is that the government open the books and show/prove to everyone how the funds are going to be spent.

clearly that won't happen, and the students are being told to shut up... and they're not, good for them and everyone in QC.

 

[MtlNewbie]

Wow, I jokingly said you would say I made it up, and then you really said I made it up!

here goes:
Montreal protest declared illegal after Molotov cocktail
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/05/18/montreal-orotest0.html

Cars and businesses damaged at st. catherine and drummond:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/V...dent+protest+turns+violent/6522368/story.html

Some vandals even tossed rocks from an overpass onto a busy downtown expressway, police said.
http://metronews.ca/news/canada/112511/quebec-protests-reach-rowdy-new-level/

Pictures of the broken windows on St. Catherine and Drummond:
http://live.montrealgazette.com/Event/Student_protest_April_25?Page=0

Vehicle burned, cars painted red:
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/26/montreal-tuition-protest-turns-violent

 

[lgna69xxx]

Another excellent post from you. This makes as much sense about the students having to cough up $325 measly dollars a year as does anything else.

This is the exact same thing as owning a franchise or business, you have to put up money, otherwise we'd all own a franchise and be raking in the dough. We should all be making money without putting in any money. On top of this, if this was the case, who would even work in our franchise? There would be no workers because everyone would have their own free business!

 

[MtlNewbie]

Where in the press have you read about rocks dropped from bridges, molotov cocktails thrown at police? Please provide examples. Sounds to me like you're making it up, not the media. I read the Gazette every day and I've read of no such thing.

As for a handful of assholes amid the thousands and thousands of peaceful protesters, I'm afraid that's always to be expected. Unfortunately, guys like you want to paint the tens of thousands with the same brush as the handful of assholes.

My final comment Rumple: Your contribution to this site is at least 10 000x greater than my own. Under no circumstances would I ever even consider talking any kind of shit to you outside of the lounge. No way. With respect to why we actually come to this site, you are THE MAN.

 

[daydreamer41]

Actual sources to back up what you say. What a novel concept, MtlNewbie.

Rumps doesn't believe in him providing those to back up what he says, because (shhhhh ... say it quiet ... ) he can't.

 

[daydreamer41]

This is the exact same thing as owning a franchise or business, you have to put up money, otherwise we'd all own a franchise and be raking in the dough. We should all be making money without putting in any money. On top of this, if this was the case, who would even work in our franchise? There would be no workers because everyone would have their own free business!

Gee, I want to go into business for myself. I don't want to risk the money I worked hard to make.

Hey rumps, friend, can you give me a 100,000 $ US. What can that amount to, to a guy like you? 6 months of escorts?

How, about it pal?

 

[lgna69xxx]

Yet they the students and protesters threaten to harm everyone in the City who is trying to survive in their business or jobs. It will hurt tourism eventually if it already has not, and it will also hurt businesses. Resto's, hotels, strip clubs, which even a member on merb has said he wont go because of the protesters making it impossible to drive to one, and many other places of business. It will have a chain effect that could be very harmful to many people that are NOT protesting is all i'm saying, if this continues for a long time. The longer the students dont get what they want the more out of control and violent this will get, and maybe not just from the protesters but from people fed up with not being able to enjoy life as usual, driving, sales down in their place of biz, etc.... chain effect on down the line.

PS, i forgot to add there was mention of the protesters marching into classrooms and disrupting those who want to learn, thats horrible and selfish.

anyone who lives in Quebec should back the students.

clearly that won't happen, and the students are being told to shut up... and they're not, good for them and everyone in QC.

 

[EagerBeaver]

So students at McGill are paying less for their tuition and receiving a superior product.

I am hearing the same thing from American friends of mine whose high school children are looking at both McGill and American colleges and universities. I have actually had some people call me and ask me what I know about Montreal because their kid is interested in McGill and the price seems right. But even McGill isn't free. It's just comparatively cheap, if stacked against the Ivy league schools, MIT, Harvard, etc. Even a McGill education is probably going to require the taking out of loans that have to be paid back. And no matter how quickly they get paid back, work has to be done to make the money to pay them back. It's pressure no matter what field you go into.

 

[Merlot]

Hey Boys,

Merlot, could you or anyone else explain to me what is so restrictive and terrible about Bill 78? Could someone explain to me where this removes freedom of expression or the freedom to demonstrate?

Techman, what is actually in the Bill may no be as oppressive as the students say, but no matter what the real restrictions are or how rational anyone says the Bill might be, it's the obvious effect on propelling this protest and the socioeconomic consequences that matter. How broad would the protest be and how much economic loss would the area be facing if not for the reaction to the Bill.

Don't forget them damn college perfessers and them lib'rels, Merlot. We've got one post here where the Fox Noise Ambassador to Merb mentions them lib'rels no less than five times. It's the fault of them lib'rel college perfessers and them lib'rel ideas them lib'rel college perfessers keep feeding these poor impressionable kids.

"The Fox Noise Ambassador to Merb" conveniently forgot that it is also a "Lib'rel" government that is raising tuition.

...Merlot who tries his best to see both sides but sees neither clearly and will not for the life of him ever actually pick a side....

Though I acknowledge not knowing the whole situation, which is only logical and more sensible than those who think they do, what is the merit of picking a side when one refuses to understand both?????????? Do you not see that many picking sides have expressed knee-jerk, self-jaded, fear-mongering reactions based on ignorant stereotypes and a clear lack of comprehensive understanding...most sadly often on purpose. The best thing anyone could say of me on this matter is he "tries his best to see both sides". I take great pride in that. Taking sides for too many is often about unwillingness to understand, irrational personal bias, and a lazy habit of over-simplification.

BTW...the Yankees SUCK...and the Leafs STINK. I hope you enjoyed this decisiveness. :thumb:

I support a lot of your views on this issue, but you haven't seemed willing to acknowledge that the current situation was pushed this far by the fuel of government actions in concert with student counter-reactions to it. Though you for one have made a very good case against the protests, we all know there is also a Separatist phobia that is at least a small part of your reaction.

It's the same old thing with the same old people...yup...and Techman the French guy who hates nothing more than he hates his own heritage. Have you considered Houston?

That may be a little strong, but it is has been strange to see one oppose the views of those from his own heritage so persistently.

Unlike yourself, I know enough to not make statements about things I know little or nothing about.

This is pretty unfair considering you are a comparative extreme newbie next to a local lifer with the understanding capabilities that goes with being 100% fluent in both languages...whatever his biases may be.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but all of your replies are a perfect example of why I say this topic can't be discussed. Everyone is far to entrenched in their opinion.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM! Not all, but too many have been self-programmed by their biases to take sides BEFORE the specific circumstances developed or played out. Their positions were predisposed and the mentality was not to observe and learn, but to take a side and attack the other regardless of any merits. Again I thank Techman for saying I'm not one of those.

...i forgot to add there was mention of the protesters marching into classrooms and disrupting those who want to learn, thats horrible and selfish.

A despicable act of abuse imposing on the free choice of others not to join the protest. However, though I'm not sure whether this came before the passage of Bill 78 or after, as heinous as acts like this are, they are very successful when they cause the government to play into their hands by motivating the government over-react with Bills that also impinge on civil rights.

Cheers,

Merlot