Duplicate handles phenomenon - Your opinion please

[Mod 2]

Question for you all,

The duplicate handles phenomenon is getting more and more serious. People are registering new handles not only for shilling, but also because they might have been banned and want to return right away, or to conceal their identity when PM`ing other members, or simply to make controversial posts without people knowing who they are.

I need your opinion as to what we should do:

1) Warn them in private, give them 24 hours, and ban their sorry ass if they don`t reply. Ban the 2nd handle (or both) based on the answer (our current procedure).
2) Post about the duplicates, possibly in a separate thread, not the current shilling thread, without warning, and ban the second handle right away (assuming we are 100% sure).
3) Same as No 2 but also make a note on the 2nd handle`s posts saying who the poster is (his/her main handle).
4) Leave them alone, unless board rules are violated. Disregard shilling or other sneaky activities.

M2

 

[eastender]

Why not ...............

Question for you all,

The duplicate handles phenomenon is getting more and more serious. People are registering new handles not only for shilling, but also because they might have been banned and want to return right away, or to conceal their identity when PM`ing other members, or simply to make controversial posts without people knowing who they are.

I need your opinion as to what we should do:

1) Warn them in private, give them 24 hours, and ban their sorry ass if they don`t reply. Ban the 2nd handle (or both) based on the answer (our current procedure).
2) Post about the duplicates, possibly in a separate thread, not the current shilling thread, without warning, and ban the second handle right away (assuming we are 100% sure).
3) Same as No 2 but also make a note on the 2nd handle`s posts saying who the poster is (his/her main handle).

M2

Why not look at how other boards that cater to other activities and interests handle the "multiple handle" situation in a pro-active fashion and report back
with better options than the above.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Mod 2,

I would endorse a variation of option #1, but 24 hours notice is not enough, make it 72 hours. Some people do not check the Boards for longer than 24 hour stretches.

Some of the banned characters you are referring to keep stirring up the same shit on the same topics under different names. Posting the same thing over and over again. And then when they get banned here they go and post the same shit over on the other Board, where there seems to be a slightly higher tolerance for the posting of bullshit (however there is a designated thread there for "frivolous posts" so some of it gets moved there, appropriately, by the Mod).

Another option is to start such a "Frivolous posts" section, move all the BS there, and eventually these posters become laughing stocks (if they aren't already) because everything they post gets characterized as frivolous. I think it has worked fairly well on the other Board.

 

[Mod 2]

Why not look at how other boards that cater to other activities and interests handle the "multiple handle" situation in a pro-active fashion and report back
with better options than the above.

What about YOU give us YOUR opinion for a change? That's the idea of this thread, in case you din't notice.

 

[Mod 2]

I would endorse a variation of option #1, but 24 hours notice is not enough, make it 72 hours. Some people do not check the Boards for longer than 24 hour stretches.

EB, I should have been clearer. I meant 24 hours of their last activity to MERB. Not since I PM them. So for example, if they logon 5 days later, 24 hours after that, hence 6 days.

Some of the banned characters you are referring to keep stirring up the same shit on the same topics under different names. Posting the same thing over and over again.

Hence the IMMEDIATE banning, when we are positive it's the same person.

And then when they get banned here they go and post the same shit over on the other Board, where there seems to be a slightly higher tolerance for the posting of bullshit

Hmmm. No comment

Another option is to start such a "Frivolous posts" section, move all the BS there, and eventually these posters become laughing stocks (if they aren't already) because everything they post gets characterized as frivolous. I think it has worked fairly well on the other Board.

Frivilous posts still remain on the board for everyone to see. My feeling is that those making those posts dont care how they are considered, as long as they have exposure. But removal of posts is another issue anyway... Later

M2

 

[Joe.t]

I voted for #1, duplicate posters are here either here to shill, cause trouble or want attention so i say ban thier sorry butts out of here.

 

[Mod 2]

I voted for #1, duplicate posters are here either here to shill, cause trouble or want attention so i say ban thier sorry butts out of here.

With either procedure 1, 2 or 3, they would have their 2nd handle banned., and both handles if they don't reply (#1) or if they are going against the board rules (#1, 2 or 3).

The question was more about the procedure for banning them...

24 hour warning first or right away?
Public notification in a thread or not?
Flag each and every post or not?

M2

 

[HonestAbe]

No Quarter.

I would ban both handles immediately. The offending party is knowingly disrespecting the entire board and does not deserve any special treatment. At the very least they should have the second handle banned immediately and be exposed to the rest of us for their open disregard for the rules. I agree this is a very serious problem as far as the board is concerned. I personally believe there are dozens of duplicate handles and think many of us would be surprised as to who they are. I'm sure we all have our suspicions.

 

[EagerBeaver]

M2,

Based on your explanation of option #1 I have now voted for that option. I basically have a zero level tolerance for some of this nonsense. Almost all of the banned posters have agendas, if they are not outright shills. They are usually pursuing one issue agendas and they offer no other contributions to the Board. Good riddance!

 

[eastender]

Basically.............

What about YOU give us YOUR opinion for a change? That's the idea of this thread, in case you din't notice.

It is very hard to provide an informed opinion without facts.

Is the "multiple handle" phenomena constant or is it variable - roughly the same percentage month after month(within 1%)?

Does it spike upwards/downwards at certain times or is it all over the place in a random fashion?

Per capita( /100 handles) how does it compare with other similar boards with the same ownership? different ownership? Are the rules and regulations the same?

How does it compare with boards that cater to a different subject matter?
Are the rules and regulations similar?

Being a member of a variety of boards my impression is that the "multiple
handle" phenomena is controlled better on MERB than on most other boards.
Is there room for improvement - perhaps?

"Shilling" should be viewed as a phenomena distinct from "multiple handles" and seems to be well under control.

"Multiple handles" - depending on the board,have more serious consequences.
On financial boards they may be used to manipulate data,influence trends,create bogus transactions,etc.On this board abuses seem to be alot more varied and less serious,but no data is available to confirm this.What are the main reasons that posters use multiple handles?

Answering these last two points will move the board a lot closer to a solution.

 

[agentleman27]

M2,

Personnaly I support option 3. My reasons are:

- Most of these duplicate handles aren't by accident but rather are a deliberate attempt to break rules agreed by the vast majority of the members.

- Most of the posts emanating from these duplicate handle have zero value or even have a negative value.

- Associating all posts under a same "unified" handle will help us understand the agenda, the motives of these posters.

- I agree my most of your banishments. Banished posters shouldn't be allowed to repost under a different handle and have their posts in circulation even for 24 hours, specially if you give them 24 hours after their last access. It brings the possibility for a "ill-intended" poster to generate posts under many different handles and let them "manipulate" public opinion.

​

Finally I want to express my thanks to you. You have a very hard job and we all know you aren't doing it for the money ... . Thanks

A27

 

[EagerBeaver]

Is there any way for me to change my vote?

 

[eastender]

Procedural Question.

Is there any way for me to change my vote?

Perhaps a designated period for debate and fact finding followed by a designated voting or polling period will allow for a solution that will be more representative.

 

[Joe.t]

-24 hour warning first or right away.
-Public notification in a thread
-Flag each and every post.

How about all three at the same time.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Change of Vote

I would like to change my vote from #1 to #3, for the reasons stated by agentleman27. Mod2, can you tamper with the polling, Florida style, so that my vote can be changed? You have my written authorization to do so!

 

[Robin]

I can't think of any reason for creating duplicate handles other than to deceive members. Even #1 doesn't seem strong enough, but the risk of having their primary handle "killed" may deter them from creating a secondary one.

 

[Mod 2]

It is very hard to provide an informed opinion without facts.

Is the "multiple handle" phenomena constant or is it variable - roughly the same percentage month after month(within 1%)?

Does it spike upwards/downwards at certain times or is it all over the place in a random fashion?

Per capita( /100 handles) how does it compare with other similar boards with the same ownership? different ownership? Are the rules and regulations the same?

Eastender,

I beg to disagree. The frequence of the offense or whether it's going up or downward has nothing to do with this discussion. Whether it happens 10 times a week or once a month, the offense is the same. The question is how it should be handled.

I have to admit though, that giving a 24 hours delay, doing a follow-up, checking if the member replied, confront his answer, etc, all of this (we are doing it now) is VERY time consuming. And the very bad guys are lying anyway, so what's the point?

How does it compare with boards that cater to a different subject matter?
Are the rules and regulations similar?

Again, I don't see how other type boards have anything to do with us. And even the same type of board for that matter. I don't care AT ALL how this is handle on "the other board". My goal is to do it right, HERE.

Being a member of a variety of boards my impression is that the "multiple
handle" phenomena is controlled better on MERB than on most other boards.
Is there room for improvement - perhaps?

Thank you for the appreciation. But yes, there is room for improvement, hence the subject of this poll.

"Shilling" should be viewed as a phenomena distinct from "multiple handles" and seems to be well under control.

"Multiple handles" - depending on the board,have more serious consequences.
On financial boards they may be used to manipulate data,influence trends,create bogus transactions,etc.On this board abuses seem to be alot more varied and less serious,but no data is available to confirm this.What are the main reasons that posters use multiple handles?

Answering these last two points will move the board a lot closer to a solution.

I agree "Shilling" and duplicate handles are two different things, but most of the time both are related. A lot of shilling also occur from regular members using ONE handle too, and thanks to many senior members here, they are identified very quickly.

The main reasons people use two handles are very varied, but I see the following ones (some already mentioned in my first post above):
1) Be viewed as "fake" posters to give glowing reviews about someone. One example that comes to mind was Juliana a while back (she stopped since then).
2) Use a fake handle to post on controversial subject, and make sure people wouldn't know who you are, to minimize effects of your sayings on, say, meetings with ladies, opnion people in general have of you, whatever else you can think of.
3) Use a fake handle to send PMs to ladies and book rendez-vous (yeah yeah, forbidden, but I am sure people still do it), without, again, disclosing your real board identity.

I am sure you and other members can come up with tons of reasons.

- Most of the posts emanating from these duplicate handle have zero value or even have a negative value.

Now, what if the duplicate handle is not used for posting, but say, only to send private messages to other members, hiding the real identity?

- I agree my most of your banishments. Banished posters shouldn't be allowed to repost under a different handle and have their posts in circulation even for 24 hours, specially if you give them 24 hours after their last access. It brings the possibility for a "ill-intended" poster to generate posts under many different handles and let them "manipulate" public opinion.

I agree, but we would then identify him before the 24 hour period, and ban all his handles right away.

I would like to change my vote from #1 to #3, for the reasons stated by agentleman27. Mod2, can you tamper with the polling, Florida style, so that my vote can be changed? You have my written authorization to do so!

Sorry EB, maybe vBulletin Admins can change the votes (I don't really know, as I am not admin), but moderators can't.

Your post is enough for all of us to know where you stand.

Thanks everyone for you opinion and ideas... Keep'm coming

M2

 

[agentleman27]

Same for PMs

Hi Mod2,

My opinion stands also for PMs although I think it is a lesser problem since PMs have a personal nature therefore if I get get a PM from a knew/unknown poster I am always cautious. Of course, massively sent PMs (spam) are forbidden and should not be tolerated.

A27

 

[MySP_love]

I think that there is way too much tolerance of duplicate posting handles. Ban them, if they have a problem that is legit, they would contact you and let you know why they used another handle... simple.

Who cares what other boards do, I thought that this was supposed to be a unique commumity in Montreal and about our ladies and gentlemen? There is no reason that one should need to hide (in order to make some remark) behind an already anonymous online ID - how ridiculous! Just my humble opinion

Melanie

 

[Jackie]

I personally like the way the boards are moderated now in terms of duplicate handles and shilling. Although the 24h private notice may not be the speediest way to rid the board of duplicate handles and shilling, it is the fairest way and IMO quite effective.

Making it public without finding out the story can cause embarrassment for the very few that have an honest explanation. I know this is a very small minority of the cases but they do happen now and then.

Jackie