enough with the office de francaise

[Aramus]

Just something to point out...

Y'know, all this was considered back in 1867 during the BRITISH NORTH AMERICA ACT. CANADA was designated a BILINGUAL Country at that time and accorded CANADIANS the right to express themselves in English or French.

Now, the fact that Canada as a majority is Anglophone, it stood to reason that most services at various levels of enterprise or government also follow suit. It's up to SOCIETY to determine what services are needed (Regardless of which language it be in).

Offices like the OLF are clearly out of line often (But not always). As consumers, we have the right to be served in whatever OFFICIAL Language CANADA has. Well, for 140+ years, it's been BILINGUAL French and English.

What many Francophone Quebecers fail to realise is that the GLOBAL offical language of Business in ALL Countries when dealing internationally is ENGLISH (My Apologies) and they want to only work in French sadly. (FYI: Look in Any Dictionary for Any Language and the word STOP is in it so putting the word "Arret" on our stop signs is a real laughable sight to see. Go to France and guess what, the stop signs actually read "Stop").

My Advice, LEARN as many languages as you can, while you can. It ENRICHES your life. Don't limit yourself by refusing to learn other languages, you only limit yourself as a result.

I myself speak 4 languages and understand 5 more (And before anyone asks, I'm Scottish CANADIAN, I speak English, French, Spanish and Gaelic fluently).

So forgive me when I hear things like some "Pur-Laine" Dyed in the wool Francophone say "More French Airline pilots should be hired over Anglophone ones (Hello, if you speak french to a US Southern Air traffic Controller or one in China, you're going to crash that plane when it runs outta fuel)" or Better still, the Hypocritical Aristocratic French "Elite" who send their children to OXFORD University in England because "Quebec" Universities aren't up to par (How're your kids doing Mr. Parizeau? Still at Oxford? Those poor children. I should be so rich as to be able to send my kids to OXford University. Pop Quiz: Who do you think PAID for their Educations? ).

I always have to laugh at the pure stupidy of this topic and the narrow-mindedness of many people. Move on people, the world isn't going to wait for you to figure it out while you sit and wallow in your beer.

 

[Aramus]

And BTW

Careful what you post cuz they can Sick the OLF on the board as being "English Only" and the OLF would investigate it and waste valuable resources better spent elsewhere.

 

[Kepler]

If you guys don't see that as a problem, then frankly I think you all have serious problems with your conception of what constitutes "ugliness" and "courtesy."

It's NOT a problem.

It would be more polite of him to post in English, just as speaking English would be more polite if we were meeting in person. But it's his right to post in French, just as it is your right to post in English to French threads.

The "penalty" is that his comments will not be understood by some.
That's freedom.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Equanimity,

I agree with your last post, and this post will be my final one on this matter in this thread. I think I have made my point, and everyone can judge for themselves who is really being discourteous here. I have exposed in this thread that mazingerz is bilingual, and everything else can be judged from that.

Spiderman tried to cast me as a lone wolf on this issue, but over the weekend I discussed this topic with three senior unilingual anglophone posters, and they all agreed with me, but said I had gone a bit too far. Maybe I did, but I believe my bottom line was the correct bottom line.

However, I do intend to protest the actions of mazingerz insofar as he continues to put up French-only posts in English-only threads. That protest will be creative, and within Board rules, and will only be designed to call attention to the rudeness and disrespectfulness of mazingerz' posting. If mazingerz has a right to be rude and disrespectful, then I have a right to protest it and I will exercise that right.

 

[Techman]

You seem to be the only one on this board who is unhappy about this situation. Why should mazingerz or any other member provide a translation just for your highness.

Roland, CR among many others tried to explain the reasons that make mazingerz post in French. You don' t speak French, so you cannot see the difference between mazingerz' s style when he writes in either language. All your logic is flawed. I hope that you are more objective and smarter when you are in court!!!!!!

You are calling mazingerz an a-hole and a jerk...just because he posts in French, we are in twilight zone here. Now you are extending the name calling to every member who tried to explain why is mazingerz posting in French! You are going to make lots of friends here.

On the other hand mazingerz has been respectful in his replies so far, despite your continuous and obcessive attacks. So, the only person who looks like a jerk and a total a-hole is...I will let you fill in the blanks.

If you cannot understand mazingerz' s posts it is your problem, others do. So, just ignore those posts and move on.

EB is far from the only one that has a problem with mazingerz and his French replies to English posters. This shows a total lack of respect on mazingerz part. Why does he even bother to answer someone who is probably unilingual English if he won't take the time to do so in a language the poster will understand? It would be far better to just refrain from posting.

There are many threads here on MERB that are in French and many others that are in both languages and I don't see anyone complaining about that. But I do agree that when replying to a question, especially when it is a request for information or help, the reply should be posted in the same language used to ask the question. It's just common sense, not to mention common decency to reply in a language you are certain the poster will comprehend.

 

[Techman]

Bingo. If you don't understand him, just ignore him. The scroll bar works quite well on most computers.

As for me, I'd much, much rather read well-written French than poor broken English.

Maybe so... but if you were a unilingual English poster who had posted a request for information, in English, you would prefer to have a reply you could understand, no matter the quality of the writing or grammar, rather than have a reply that may as well be written in Sanskrit. Unless a poster is known to understand both languages due to their posting history, any responses to a question they pose, as a thread starter, should be in the language the original post was made in. Anything else shows a lack of respect and is ignorant.

No matter how well written the post may be.

 

[Lion Heart]

It's NOT a problem.

It would be more polite of him to post in English, just as speaking English would be more polite if we were meeting in person. But it's his right to post in French, just as it is your right to post in English to French threads.

The "penalty" is that his comments will not be understood by some.
That's freedom.

Well said! I agree all this is not a problem. This board has already White Knights, Shillers, Shill Busters, Board Terrorists or Tony's reincarnations...but, with all due respect EB and TM, I don't think we need as well Don Quichotte's picking on someone just because he wants to participate in the language of his choice.

Is it a lack of respect not to respond to someone in his language? Depends on the circumstances and someone's perspective. I don't think indeed I would try that in an Irish pub. I don't think it's a problem on an internet discussion forum. If you don't, or don't want to, understand a poster or if somehow you feel insulted by someone posting in French, no need to trow stones. The "Ignore" button feature in the User CP Menu does a really great job in obliviating member's statements, in any language. Simple, effective and painless...for everyone involved.

I'm French-speaking but I choose to post primarly in English, simply because I feel I'll be best undertood by the majority of members, including the unilingual Anglophone hobbyists who contribute and for which I'm thankful. It's also the polite thing to do in my opinion. I may loose a few unilingual Francophones in the process, but this is my choice. Of course, I'll always respond in French to other French-speaking members.

Using only French on a board like this will limit someone's auditoire, as many unilingual Anglophones will surely not bother trying to figure it out or use a translator tool. Using Chinese, Russian or Klingon will reduce your auditoire even much further...I for one would definitely not bother. If you're not understood, freedom of speach is really freedom to be ignored, but it's ultimately someone's choice. And from what I've read, Mazingerz don't have any problem with that...so where's the problem?

Anyway, for everyone's information, Don Quichotte did lost all his battles...

Lion Heart

 

[RogerRabbit]

Uniligual threads?

Well, I read a lot in this thread about supposedly "English-only" threads or even "French-only" threads. What is that stupid notion? Arrogance is around the corner here. A thread is unilingual until someone posts in the other language. If that person chooses to be ignored because most discussants of the thread don't understand French, let him (or her) be. Is it necessary to spit on that person and tell names? Please grow up.

That issue has been dealed with in the Quebec City Lounge, where Athana asked if she should post in French when replying to threads there. Many said it would be nice since not everyone has sufficient english notions. She agreed.

If others don't follow her example, skip their replies if it frustrates you.

RR

 

[Techman]

People missing the point...

Some people here just don't seem to understand what I and EB are trying to get across. If it is a general discussion thread then post in whatever language you wish to post in. If it is a thread in which the thread starter has posted a question or a request for information, then in that type of thread the replies should be in the language of the thread starter, whether it be French or English. Posting in any other language should be considered rude and ignorant. What the hell is the point in giving an answer to someone that cannot understand the language of your post?

I have no problem with people posting in whatever language they feel like under most circumstances. But there are situations where posting in a language other that the language the thread was started in is in bad taste at best. If you can't help out by posting something the person can understand, you are better off not posting at all.

And Mazingerz...if someone posts a request for information and I have the answer he or she requires, I will be more than happy to post it in French.

 

[leneo]

Le Quebec !!! est Francais !!!

Bon a tous les anglais du QUEBEC ,,,,ils y a 11 province au canada 10 anglophones et une FRANCOPHONE ,,,,alors vous avez le choix parler FRANCAIS ou bien cri...... votre camp !!!!!

 

[beautydigger]

Sometimes I think hockey is the only thing that unifies Canadians as a nation. It is no wonder that you are at the forefront of globalism.

 

[beautydigger]

Et les Rangers de New York etait estompé par le Canadien.
(Nos Glorieux)

Now I know what makes you rude and disrespectful.

 

[Special K]

Je vais vous répondre en anglais sur des threads partis en anglais quand vous allez répondre en français à des threads partis en français. Tant que vous nous respecterez pas, je ferai la même chose.

To make one point here. I don't usually get too riled up about people posting here in french for the most part, unless I'm in a hurry I'll do a quick "Google Translation" and hopefully understand what's being said. However, after using Google trans to decipher Mazingerz' post above this is what I got in return.

"I will answer in English on threads parties in English when you go to meet with french threads french parties. As long as you are not comply, I will make the same thing."

Now, I have no f'n clue what that's supposed to mean, so if Mazingerz speaks English as has been proven here, albeit probably not that great, I'm sure it's better than this drivelish translation provided by Google and therefore he should post in English!

 

[Kepler]

N'exagère pas. Même les Acadiens qui sont les seuls à vivre dans une province officiellement bilingue ont de la misère à vivre et à avoir des services dans leur langue. Alors imagine les ontariens avec seulement 10% de francophones. Ici les anglophones peuvent vivre dans leur langue

Je n'exagère pas. Tous les exemples que j'ai donnés sont tirés des lois québécoises qui forcent les anglophones/allophones à parler une langue qui n'est pas la leur.

En Ontario, au Nouveau Brunswick, ou en Californie, les francophones peuvent faire comme bon leur semble. S'ils n'ont pas des services en français, ce n'est pas la faute du gouvernement!

Si tu penses que les franco-ontariens, etc. se sentent brimés et qu'il y a une forte demande pour des services en français dans ces endroits, alors va y ouvrir des dépanneurs, restaurants, et autres services en français et tu deviendras peut être le Bill Gates de la francophonie!

 

[Kepler]

If it is a thread in which the thread starter has posted a question or a request for information, then in that type of thread the replies should be in the language of the thread starter,

No one is entitled to help. If someone asks for information in language X, the polite thing to do is to answer in language X.

But if the 'helper' answers in Swahili, the polite response from the original questioner is to say "Thanks", and be on his way. Even though in our minds we might think the 'helper' is an idiot for answering in Swahili, it is even more boorish to demand to be helped in any particular way.

Another way to look at it: the 'helper' is making enough of an effort by giving any reply at all. He didn't even have to reply. Is it too much to ask that the original questioner do a little work and use Google translate? Why should the helper make extra effort to translate his response?

 

[Kepler]

Bon a tous les anglais du QUEBEC ,,,,ils y a 11 province au canada 10 anglophones et une FRANCOPHONE ,,,,alors vous avez le choix parler FRANCAIS ou bien cri...... votre camp !!!!!

Uhhh... what school did you go to? There are only 10 provinces in Canada.

PS: For someone who loves French so much : "ils" shouldn't have an "s"; province takes an "s"; and it's "parlez".

Geez. In two lines dude!

Why is it that those who are most into "protecting the language" massacre the language the most? You are the biggest threat to the French language.

 

[z/m(Ret)]

This thread exasperates me.
Are mazingerz posts keeping posters from posting in English?
It's not like there's not enough bandwidth to accommodate posts in either language.

 

[z/m(Ret)]

and it's "parlez".

Actually, Kepler, the infinitive form "parler" is correct if we accept that leneo meant to write: "vous avez le choix de parler...".

The conjugated form, as you suggested, would be introduced either by a colon or by the exclamation mark: "vous avez le choix: parlez..." or "vous avez le choix! Parlez..."

 

[Kepler]

Actually, Kepler, the infinitive form "parler" is correct if we accept that leneo meant to write: "vous avez le choix de parler...".

Why yes, if you rewrite his sentence to add words, it becomes correct. I only assumed that he was missing the colon, which seemed logical since all the other punctuation marks were screwed up!

Either way, it was not a shining example of the language he purports to defend.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Either way, it was not a shining example of the language he purports to defend.

At the same time it should be noted that mazingerz's English posts, while not at the level of Shakespeare, are VASTLY preferable to the google/babelfish translations of his French posts, which are complete nonsense (and I can only assume his posts as written in French are not complete nonsense). Although Special K alluded to this issue earlier, I felt the need to return to this thread because apparently a few posters who have not bothered to actually try it assume that mazingerz's posts are easily translated into English.

A few times in the earlier thread some of the apologists for mazingerz attempted to put up English translations of his French posts using babelfish, and the result was a laughably incomprehensible jumble of words that does not in any way, shape or form rise to the level of coherent English, and would give Shakespeare a heart attack if he read it. Whether that is mazingerz's French or Babelfish's ability to translate it I cannot say for sure, but I must assume the latter, as several posters have said mazingerz is literate in his written French.

Techman is the only poster in the entire thread who has accurately and reasonably analyzed the issue. And it's usually the case that Techman is the voice of reason in an ocean of murky and meandering analysis, this time of an issue that frankly is not all that obtuse.