enough with the office de francaise
- Thread starter stoneeca
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traduction 102!
One of the French words I learned is "tannant". Actually an SP taught me this word.
Traduction: tannant=annoying wiseass (mazingerz)
One of the French words I learned is "tannant". Actually an SP taught me this word.
Traduction: tannant=annoying wiseass (mazingerz)
I'm an Anglo and I'll respond to this one. I think the business owner should use their common sense. If they know the customer, and they're english, they should be able to converse in English in front of 40 OLF inspectors. If the client is unknown, then speak to them in French first, then English and see how they respond. It's not that hard.My_dingaling said:
johnhenrygalt said:
Even among strangers who are not sure if the other person even understands the language? I could just see the reaction if someone who is unilingual french asked a bilingual person something and that person replied in english.
Thats the sort of thing that would turn someone into a separatist and understandably so, if it happens often enough.
I can and have seen it among friends, or among to bilinguals one of each language I can see it.
If someone spoke to me in badly fractured french, it would be safe to assume that I am dealing with an Anglo [if they were white I guess, otherwise all bets are off] and I could go into English with no problems. If someone posts in bad English in an attempt to get an answer to a question, I would feel free to post in French, if I knew it, however it is a bit ballsy to assume that someone who is posting in good english or french knows the other language. When you speak to someone during a face to face social encounter in a different language, I would assume there is some sort of verbal clue that the person is bilingual. On the internet, there is no such clue.
Silly me, I thought the idea of a reply was to communicate, not to make up for 400 years of blockhead oppression.
"blockhead oppresion" Just when this thread was winding down on a civilized note. Oh well. Freedom to voice your opinion makes this board great.
Assuming that only whites can speak fractured french is a little silly. Lots of people in this country (Canada) who aren't white, can't speak english or french. It's one of the joys of having an immigration department that is unique to Quebec. The "distinct society" has it's very own immigration department, completely divorced from the federal system. It makes a wonderful tool for artificially propping up your population numbers. Which is required for times when too many people are leaving the province. While reports have stated that that trend has diminished, or even reversed, it still seems an unnecessary expense for a province famous for crying to get more federal funding. Having it's own immigration department allows Quebec to have it's own immigration rules as well: ie: what language any children will be schooled in. So Mr X and his family come to Quebec from Somewhereiva, get their papers, some money, and move somewhere else in the country. Somewhere where there are less restrictions linguisticaly.
I understand EagerBeaver's frustration just as much as I understand Mazingerz"s pride. Truth be known, I guess I just don't give a shit any more. I have been listening, reading, and living all this bullshit my whole life, and in a way it has just become part of that life. I live here, and work here, partly by choice, partly by necessity. I watch english tv, I read an english newspaper. I am an anglo, I live my life as an anglo. I do not, and will not, appologize for that. If I start to dislike it that much, I am free to leave. As are the seperatists. If they wish to live in a french country, there are several flights a day to France.
I have said my peace, hopefully without pissing in anyone's cornflakes. Time to find something else to do, this has gotten boring.
Assuming that only whites can speak fractured french is a little silly. Lots of people in this country (Canada) who aren't white, can't speak english or french. It's one of the joys of having an immigration department that is unique to Quebec. The "distinct society" has it's very own immigration department, completely divorced from the federal system. It makes a wonderful tool for artificially propping up your population numbers. Which is required for times when too many people are leaving the province. While reports have stated that that trend has diminished, or even reversed, it still seems an unnecessary expense for a province famous for crying to get more federal funding. Having it's own immigration department allows Quebec to have it's own immigration rules as well: ie: what language any children will be schooled in. So Mr X and his family come to Quebec from Somewhereiva, get their papers, some money, and move somewhere else in the country. Somewhere where there are less restrictions linguisticaly.
I understand EagerBeaver's frustration just as much as I understand Mazingerz"s pride. Truth be known, I guess I just don't give a shit any more. I have been listening, reading, and living all this bullshit my whole life, and in a way it has just become part of that life. I live here, and work here, partly by choice, partly by necessity. I watch english tv, I read an english newspaper. I am an anglo, I live my life as an anglo. I do not, and will not, appologize for that. If I start to dislike it that much, I am free to leave. As are the seperatists. If they wish to live in a french country, there are several flights a day to France.
I have said my peace, hopefully without pissing in anyone's cornflakes. Time to find something else to do, this has gotten boring.
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This whole thread, particularly the spelling bee is incredibly prickish.
I'm fairly certain France would not want an influx of quebecois. The impression I get from the people from France is that French quebecers amuse them...but in the end make fun of them when they're not around. It's basically the same thing between English Canadians and the English in the UK.
Calls for deporting quebecers usually just lower the general intelligence of the conversation although I'd say we dispensed with intelligence a few days ago.
Language and culture is a natural phenomenon and the idea that it can be contrived by some office is stupid. For one, it is totally ineffective and thank goodness. If it were effective, it would mean the civil liberties of non-francophones would be constantly violated in ways that are unacceptable in a decent society.
btw, I totally added some grammatical errors on purpose so deal with it!
I'm fairly certain France would not want an influx of quebecois. The impression I get from the people from France is that French quebecers amuse them...but in the end make fun of them when they're not around. It's basically the same thing between English Canadians and the English in the UK.
Calls for deporting quebecers usually just lower the general intelligence of the conversation although I'd say we dispensed with intelligence a few days ago.
Language and culture is a natural phenomenon and the idea that it can be contrived by some office is stupid. For one, it is totally ineffective and thank goodness. If it were effective, it would mean the civil liberties of non-francophones would be constantly violated in ways that are unacceptable in a decent society.
btw, I totally added some grammatical errors on purpose so deal with it!
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Born and raised in Quebec, and roots with the First Nations.
I say fuck this shit and speak CREE!
Yeah culture and heritage, fine words when they actually mean something! I presume that rape, pillaging, torture and an assortment of other European niceties make up the fabric of the French or English culture ..
Something to be proud of, I guess, so let the fueding begin and demonstrate how enlightend each culture really is !!
So far its dead even.
Take it any way you wish
Porter
I say fuck this shit and speak CREE!
Yeah culture and heritage, fine words when they actually mean something! I presume that rape, pillaging, torture and an assortment of other European niceties make up the fabric of the French or English culture ..
Something to be proud of, I guess, so let the fueding begin and demonstrate how enlightend each culture really is !!
So far its dead even.
Take it any way you wish
Porter
In light of all the recent postings, only fueled by old antagonisms between the French and English communities, it's hard to understand why such a useless thread is still open while much more interesting threads have been closed prematurely.
This thread was started over one premise (the OLF) and turned immediately into a futile language crusade against one particular member...a non issue from my perspective over which everything that even didn't needed to be said was said...
Am I the only one to think that all this is way "passé date"???
Lion Heart
This thread was started over one premise (the OLF) and turned immediately into a futile language crusade against one particular member...a non issue from my perspective over which everything that even didn't needed to be said was said...
Am I the only one to think that all this is way "passé date"???
Lion Heart
Pour tous les unilingues ici, anglophones et francophones qui prêchent pour l'utilisation d'une langue unique, voici un passage que j'ai lu hier et qui m'a fait pensé à ce fil de discussion.
La promotion de l'unilinguisme
Extrait du livre de Claude Hagège, linguiste français : Halte à la mort des langues.
Une conséquence de cet état de fait est la suprématie de ceux qui ne parlent qu'une langue, et la faveur que recueille leur attachement à cette seule langue. Une telle promotion de l'unilinguisme et de la mentalité unilingue se fait au bénéfice de l'anglais. La compétence des individus multilingues, au lieu d'être appréciée pour ce qu'elle est, à savoir une richesse, se trouve dévalorisée comme un handicap. L'unilinguisme au profit de l'anglais est vu comme garantie, sinon comme condition nécessaire, du modernisme et du progrès, alors que le multilinguisme est associé au sous-développement et à l'arriération économique, sociale et politique, ou considéré comme une étape négative et brève, sur le chemin qui doit conduire à l'anglais seul...
La promotion de l'unilinguisme
Extrait du livre de Claude Hagège, linguiste français : Halte à la mort des langues.
Une conséquence de cet état de fait est la suprématie de ceux qui ne parlent qu'une langue, et la faveur que recueille leur attachement à cette seule langue. Une telle promotion de l'unilinguisme et de la mentalité unilingue se fait au bénéfice de l'anglais. La compétence des individus multilingues, au lieu d'être appréciée pour ce qu'elle est, à savoir une richesse, se trouve dévalorisée comme un handicap. L'unilinguisme au profit de l'anglais est vu comme garantie, sinon comme condition nécessaire, du modernisme et du progrès, alors que le multilinguisme est associé au sous-développement et à l'arriération économique, sociale et politique, ou considéré comme une étape négative et brève, sur le chemin qui doit conduire à l'anglais seul...
mtwallet said:
I never said that.
I said this
If someone spoke to me in badly fractured french, it would be safe to assume that I am dealing with an Anglo [if they were white I guess, otherwise all bets are off]
The first phrase, and in particular the first IF is key. I am only considering the subpopulation of those who speak fractured french, and pointing out that if they are non white, they might or might not know English, but have some other native language. To continue pointing out the extremely obvious, of course someone just off the boat from Europe might speak fractured french and might have limited English skills also, however considering the size of the Born in Quebec Anglo population and the size of the immigrant populations in comparison, it would be a safe bet to assume they know english, even if you can be wrong every so often.
johnhenrygalt said:
No need to delete but closing would prevent the bad from getting worse...
Lion Heart
Riiiiiiiight!
Oh No! Now is the time to take inventory. What a constructive debate this has been. I would love to see a summary on somebody's part as to just what has been accomplished here apart from creating a greater division on the board and more hard feelings. Or do we all just laugh philosophically and shake hands. I've got it: Anybody know the words to Kum Bah Ya? Kinda gives you a warm feeling all over doesn't it?
Lion Heart said:
Oh No! Now is the time to take inventory. What a constructive debate this has been. I would love to see a summary on somebody's part as to just what has been accomplished here apart from creating a greater division on the board and more hard feelings. Or do we all just laugh philosophically and shake hands. I've got it: Anybody know the words to Kum Bah Ya? Kinda gives you a warm feeling all over doesn't it?
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Roland said:
In most cases I would agree with you Roland. My comments are based on a conversation I had a while back with another long standing member on the feeling that this issue has the potential to breed long standing resentments under the surface. In addition to that in the light of Lion Heart's comment above:
I may not be far off the mark.
All we are saying here is, A word to the wise.......
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