Habs off season thread: free agents, trades ...etc
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The roaster is an aberration: 12 defencemen, Biron, Côté, Hamrlik, Bouillon, Dandeneault, Komisarek, Brisebois, Gorges, Markov, Valentenko, Streit and Rivers for 3 left wingers, Begin, Kastsitsyn and Murray (a rookie and two checking line players)picasso said:
Ziggy Montana said:Et il faut que Montréal soit vraiment en mal de nouvelles pour ramener la carcasse de Brisebois au bercail! Non mais qu'est-ce qu'on attend pour nous ramener Turner Stevenson tant qu'à y être!
C'est plate a dire,mais Montreal est rendue la cour a scrap de la LNH;Smolinski,Kostopoulos,Brisebois,Geoges,....
Le meilleur ailier gauche du Canadien est... Steve Begin! 5 buts, 5 passes en 52 parties jouées la saison dernière. En tout, les trois seuls ailiers gauche du club, Begin, Kastsitsyn et Murray, totalisent 8 buts et 16 passes avec un différentiel collectif de -13. Pathétique.Cosmo said:C'est plate a dire,mais Montreal est rendue la cour a scrap de la LNH;Smolinski,Kostopoulos,Brisebois,Geoges,....
Ziggy Montana said:Et il faut que Montréal soit vraiment en mal de nouvelles pour ramener la carcasse de Brisebois au bercail! Non mais qu'est-ce qu'on attend pour nous ramener Turner Stevenson tant qu'à y être!
BRING BACK STEPHANE RICHER !!!!
picasso said:
What have you been smokin' Pablo? Do you honestly think Calgary would be crazy enough to trade Alex Tanguay for those two bums? Mike Keenan would never be able to put up with a puck-hog like Mike Ryder & an overpaid floater by the name of Kovalev!
Cosmo said:C'est plate a dire,mais Montreal est rendue la cour a scrap de la LNH;Smolinski,Kostopoulos,Brisebois,Geoges,....
T'as raison! Quand tu paies des millions a un pourri comme Alex Kovalev et que tu es pris a donner $3 millions a un mangeux de puck comme Mike Ryder, t'es dans le trouble! Il te reste plus grand chose pour aller chercher (ou garder) des joueurs de talent.
Ziggy Montana said:The roaster is an aberration: 12 defencemen, Biron, Côté, Hamrlik, Bouillon, Dandeneault, Komisarek, Brisebois, Gorges, Markov, Valentenko, Streit and Rivers for 3 left wingers, Begin, Kastsitsyn and Murray (a rookie and two checking line players)
None of Biron, Cote, Valentenko and Rivers are listed on the official roster, per canadiens.com, though all are under contract to the Habs. Incidently, NHL rules allow a team to keep 50 players under contract, but only 23 on the active roster. This allows a team to field a farm team, of which at least 4, and possibly 5 of the defensemen you list as part of this "roster abberation" will be a part of. It's called organizational depth, not an abberation.
As for the left wingers, Chris Higgins is actually the top line left winger, and Guillaume Latendresse has played left wing as much as he's played right wing. Kostitsyn is the best looking forward prospect the Habs have produced in several years, having recorded over a point per game at the AHL level last year, and is expected to contribute at the NHL level this season.
Bryan Smolinski has also played there extensively at the NHL level, and could possibly play there this year should the Habs decide to trade for a centre, or promote former Team Canada (WJC) captain Kyle Chipchura, or Belarussian forward Mikhail Grabovski, who had 54 points for the Habs AHL farm team last year, and is an explosive skater who had chemistry with Kostitsyn.
The plan is not to win anything this year...but the following year (2008-2009).
Higgins, Latendresse, Markov, Komisarek, Ryder, Lapierre , Plekanec are the actual young ones that is the core of the expected 2008-2009 team. Add this year Carey Price, Corey Locke Kostytsin, Grabovsky, Chipchura and Jancevski this year and they will get better. What will be missing is to sign up 2-3 free agents, including one good one that Bob will probably try to catch before the playoff this year (presume a solid defenceman).
So dont dream now...it is not in the plan to win....
Higgins, Latendresse, Markov, Komisarek, Ryder, Lapierre , Plekanec are the actual young ones that is the core of the expected 2008-2009 team. Add this year Carey Price, Corey Locke Kostytsin, Grabovsky, Chipchura and Jancevski this year and they will get better. What will be missing is to sign up 2-3 free agents, including one good one that Bob will probably try to catch before the playoff this year (presume a solid defenceman).
So dont dream now...it is not in the plan to win....
the_rock70 said:
Quite true. However, many people who believe that Hamrlik will be able to fill Souray's skates are in for quite a shock. Souray is a much superior player to Hamrlik. Defensively they're a match, but offensively? Nope.
the_rock70 said:
Hamrlik was a bust as a #1 overall pick. He's been a solid NHL blueliner for the past 15 years, but never achieved the superstardom expected of such a high draft pick. But to be honest, that draft year was a very average one. Alexei Yashin was the 2nd overall pick & other picks included Darius Kasparaitis, Corey Stillman & Martin Straka. The rest were either journeymen or no-names. I state it again: Sheldon Souray is no defensive whiz, but he isn't as bad as many people (Habs fans) seem to believe. Take away that play where he was litterally undressed by Jason Spezza & people would consider him average defensively.
This will be Hamrlik's 5th team in the last 10 years. If he was as good as some people seem to think he is, other teams would have held on to him. Souray, on the other hand, will only be playing for his 3rd team in the last 10 years. Looked upon not only as its team's QB on the powerplay, this aboriginal player from Elk Point, Alberta, is also recognized for his leadership qualities both on & off the ice. He was also a force on the ice for the Habs whenever the need for fisticuffs would be required. I doubt Hamrlik will command the same presence & respect in the dressing room & on the ice (in a leadership/enforcer role).
Doc Holliday said:
I'm gonna disagree with the statement that he was a bust as a #1 overall pick. It wasn't an average year, but a dirt poor year. The only players who've had a comparable career to Hamrlik are Alexei Yashin, Sergei Gonchar and Jere Lehtinen. As such, Tampa picked (arguably) the player who went on to have the best career of his draft class, which is all one can hope for from the #1 overall pick. It's not to say he became a superstar, but it's also not his fault no one else in his draft year became a star either. In retrospect, I might've picked Gonchar, Lehtinen then Hamrlik, but if you were to tell a team they picked only the third best player in any given draft year, you think they'd object?
Doc Halliday said:
Nice selective information. Why didn't you also point out this is only his 5th team in 15 years? Did you know Wayne Gretzky played for 3 teams in his last 5 seasons, yet still managed to get over a point a game until his final season. Including his new team this year, Paul Kariya's played for 4 teams in 5 years. Would you call either of these players someone who wasn't as good as other people thought they were? Reality is, sometimes one team simply covets a player enough that they want to acquire him, either via trade (twice in Hamrlik's case), or via free agency (twice). Incidently, Calgary wanted to retain his services, but offered a two year contract, but he opted for the security of a 4-year deal with Montreal.
Doc Halliday said:
I won't disagree with you on the leadership role, but why do people insist on referring to Souray as someone who engages in fisticuffs? He got three fighting majors last year, one was against a guy that didn't fight back (Colby Armstrong), and one against a guy that turtle (Matt Greene). In both cases, Souray received a misconduct and hurt his team by being thrown out of the game for being too aggressive.
BackDoorMan said:
I have every confidence that the HA-HA-Habs will achieve their plan.
It's quite sad what has happened to the once-proud franchises in Canada's two largest cities. We now have the Maple Laughs and the HA-HA-Habs.
To give the Laughs their due however they at least look like an improved team with the addition of Jason Blake and reduced playing time for chief sieve Andrew Raycroft. The Canadiens on the other hand rate to be even worse than last year.
joelcairo said:
I don’t agree. I see the Habs finishing anywhere from 6th to 8th and making the playoffs. We have one of the best goaler tandems with Huet and Halak, and thats how you build a winner, starting in net – not to mention Montreal has the best prospect in the league with Carey Price (who has a good shot at making the big team). Sure, we’ll miss Sourays offensive numbers, but he was brutal defensively and a liability.
Halak/Price, Hamrlik > Abby,Souray
A first pairing of Komisarek and Hamrlik will shut down the other teams best offensive players. Having Ryder back is also good news. I expect Kovalev to regain his old form and light it up. Higgins, Plekanec and Latendresse will have huge years and put up some big numbers.
Bob needs to swing a deal to bring in a player or two, like Marleau or Selanne, then Montreal will challenge for the North east division title – teams like Buffalo, Toronto and Boston are on the decline. I expect the Sabres to still make the playoffs but the shitty Leafs and lousy Bruins will miss the post season again!
Montreal would have made the playoffs last season if it weren’t for that bad flu bug. Carbo will have nos glorieux playing well all season long followed by a lengthy post season!
"Depth" where there's barely anything to show on the surface is hardly depth at all. The team you are depicting - Chipchura, Grabovski Latendresse, Kostitsyn and the aging Smolinski is nothing to put Montreal in a position to make the playoffs this coming season. Overpaid and overrated Koivu and underachiever Kovalev will still be getting enough ice time to cause damage to the team.Heavy D said:
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Jojo Savard,gohabsgo said:I don’t agree. I see the Habs finishing anywhere from 6th to 8th and making the playoffs. We have one of the best goaler tandems with Huet and Halak, and thats how you build a winner, starting in net – not to mention Montreal has the best prospect in the league with Carey Price (who has a good shot at making the big team). Sure, we’ll miss Sourays offensive numbers, but he was brutal defensively and a liability.
Halak/Price, Hamrlik > Abby,Souray
A first pairing of Komisarek and Hamrlik will shut down the other teams best offensive players. Having Ryder back is also good news. I expect Kovalev to regain his old form and light it up. Higgins, Plekanec and Latendresse will have huge years and put up some big numbers.
Bob needs to swing a deal to bring in a player or two, like Marleau or Selanne, then Montreal will challenge for the North east division title – teams like Buffalo, Toronto and Boston are on the decline. I expect the Sabres to still make the playoffs but the shitty Leafs and lousy Bruins will miss the post season again!
Montreal would have made the playoffs last season if it weren’t for that bad flu bug. Carbo will have nos glorieux playing well all season long followed by a lengthy post season!
Si tu retirais tes verres bleu-blanc-rouge quelques instants, le portrait de l'équipe t'apparaîtrait certainement beaucoup plus sombre que celui que tu viens de nous faire. Huet et Halak me sont bien sympathiques mais ni l'un ni l'autre n'a encore subi le test du temps. En fait, Huet commencait déjà à montrer de sérieux ratés avant qu'il ne se blesse. Les exemples de gardiens qui ont la cote pendant un moment et qui tombent néanmoins en désuétude après un moment sont nombreux dans la LNH, le cas le plus cruel étant celui d'un certain José Theodore qui, après sa prodigieuse prestation contre Boston en séries est rapidement tombé dans la médiocrité. Si l'on s'en tient strictement à l'histoire du Canadien, Jocelyn Thibault (qu'on annonçait comme le Messie du temps ou' il jouait pour les Nordiques et Steve Penney furent deux autres cas assez pathétiques de "superstars de la semaine".
Huet et Halak ont encore des preuves à faire avant de les classer comme "l'une des meilleures paires de gardiens". Price est promu à un bel avenir mais, encore là, s'imaginer qu'il serait capable, à sa première saison, de tenir le fort toute l'année en cas de défaillance des deux autres gardiens est illusoire.
Somme toute, la valeur des gardiens reste encore à prouver.
Le départ de Souray vient de sérieusement hypothèquer la production offensive de l'équipe, laquelle reposait presque exclusivement sur l'avantage numérique. Je conviens que son différentiel de -28 témoignait de l'attitude de Souray, à la veille de devenir joueur autonome. Gonfler sa fiche offensive est généralement une priorité pour quiconque songe à tester le marché et c'est ce que Souray a fait aux dépends de l'équipe.
Ceci dit, il possède l'un des meilleurs tirs de la ligue parmi les défenseurs, une arme que ni Markov, ni Streit et encore moins Brisebois et Hamrlik ne possèdent.
Komisarek et Hamrlik, s'ils jouent ensemble, forment un duo intéressant quoique loin d'être dominant. Des joueurs comme eux, on en retrouve partout à travers la ligue. Ryder est ce qu'on appelle un "mangeux de puck". En règle générale, les coéquipiers de tels joueurs cherchent à tout prix à s'en éloigner.
Kovalev reviendrait à son niveau de forme de ses belles années? Allons donc! À moins qu'il ne soit tombé dans la marmite de potion magique du druide Panoramix, Kovalev continuera de traîner sa carcasse le long de la bande pendant que ses coéquipiers feront tout le travail que lui refuse de faire.
Higgins, Plekanec et Latendresse sont des joueurs que j'apprécie sauf que, encore là, ils doivent eux aussi, tout comme Huet et Halak, passer l'épreuve du temps.
Tout n'est pas négatif chez le Canadien. L'équipe a quelques bonnes recrues dans son alignement. Le problème, du moins pour la saison 2007-2008, c'est que les valeurs sûres de l'équipe, outre Markov, sont des joueurs surévalués (Koivu, Hamrlik), en déclin/peu motivés (Brisebois, Kovalev), ou moyens voire médiocres (Bégin, Bouillon, Dandenault, Komisarek, Lapierre, Kostopoulos, Murray, Ryder, Streit, Smolinski). Les autres, les Gorges, Grabovski, Halak, Huet, Higgins, Kastsitsyn, Latendresse, Perezhogin, Chipchura, sont soit des recrues soit des joueurs dont la valeur reste à prouver par le test du temps.
Il n'y pas de Brodeur ni de Pronger chez le Canadien, et encore moins de Sidney Crosby. De tels joueurs, on sait qu'ils sont bons, on ne se pose pas de question sur leurs valeurs. Chaque équipe ou presque a de tels joueurs dans leur alignement: les trashers ont Kovalchuk et Hossa autour de qui bâtir; les Capitals ont Ovechkin et Semin, et ainsi de suite.
À Montréal il n'y a que Markov dont ont puisse dire avec assurance qu'"il est bon" et pourtant il n'a pas assez d'étoffe pour être un pilier d'équipe comme le sont Pronger, Niedermayer, etc...
À moins d'un changement majeur à la formation, rien ne permet d'affirmer avec assurance que le Canadien fera la séries en 2007-2008. Si je devais me prononcer aujourd'hui sur leur chances, je dirais qu'elles sont très mauvaises.
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Ziggy, i agree 200% with your analysis of this year's Habs. Have you ever considered writing for either the Gazette or Le Journal de Montreal? I'm serious about this. Your insight is uncanny!
For those who keep repeating the line that they have one of the best goaltender tandems in Halek/Huet (i know, i don't get it!) well, can they score goals also? The problem with this sorry ass of a team isn't goaltending or defense, it's the INABILITY TO SCORE GOALS !!! Who will put the puck in the net? Kovalev? Come on! He's on the downside of his average & underachieving career. Koivu? Please! Higgins? Who knows....he's never shown me proof that he can be a consistent 30-goal scorer in this league. Latendresse? You're kidding, right? Ryder? Please! That lazy puck-hogging winger playing with oversized shoulder pads will once again be playing for a rich contract & he'll be as stingy with the puck as he ever was! As a matter of fact, i'd put him at center & stick him right in front in the slot area & tell his wingers to feed him the puck. Why have a puck-hog like him playing the wing? Worse, put him & Kovalev together on the same line. They deserve one another! Now, the question would be to find a center willing to play with these two puck-hogs. Any takers?
It will be difficult for the Habs to score goals not only because of a lack of talent, but also because of the system they'll be playing in. Carbonneau, Muller, Jarvis & company cannot allow the team to open up & start playing offensively since defense is the key to their few successes. Without that defensive system of theirs, their goaltenders won't look as good as they have over the years.
As i said over and over again, IT WON'T BE PRETTY, FOLKS!
For those who keep repeating the line that they have one of the best goaltender tandems in Halek/Huet (i know, i don't get it!) well, can they score goals also? The problem with this sorry ass of a team isn't goaltending or defense, it's the INABILITY TO SCORE GOALS !!! Who will put the puck in the net? Kovalev? Come on! He's on the downside of his average & underachieving career. Koivu? Please! Higgins? Who knows....he's never shown me proof that he can be a consistent 30-goal scorer in this league. Latendresse? You're kidding, right? Ryder? Please! That lazy puck-hogging winger playing with oversized shoulder pads will once again be playing for a rich contract & he'll be as stingy with the puck as he ever was! As a matter of fact, i'd put him at center & stick him right in front in the slot area & tell his wingers to feed him the puck. Why have a puck-hog like him playing the wing? Worse, put him & Kovalev together on the same line. They deserve one another! Now, the question would be to find a center willing to play with these two puck-hogs. Any takers?
It will be difficult for the Habs to score goals not only because of a lack of talent, but also because of the system they'll be playing in. Carbonneau, Muller, Jarvis & company cannot allow the team to open up & start playing offensively since defense is the key to their few successes. Without that defensive system of theirs, their goaltenders won't look as good as they have over the years.
As i said over and over again, IT WON'T BE PRETTY, FOLKS!
Regarind Souray's +/-, I am sure the Habs would have made the playoffs if they would have bench him during regular play and just keep him playing during the powerplays...
Some team keep a goon as a 13th player....or a 7th defenceman....since Montreal did not have a proper goon since many centuries (when the last guy to reach enough fight in a season is Steph Quintal...you know what I mean....)....they should have done that....Souray is not «average» defensivly....he is VERY BAD
By the way, regarding the stats last 2 years, the Habs were more in trouble when Markov was out. On a 5-5 play, he is much better to get the puck out of the defense zone and on powerplay, him and Kovalev are the only ones who passed the puck well to Souray, Ryder or Koivu. Without a nice and quick pass, a sniper is nothing...so is Souray.
On the powerplay, the other teams could have stop the Habs' «Souray» powerplay system easily, but they couldnt because they had to check Kovalev. For those who complain about him, he is still the most dangerous one one powerplay to make your system work. He is the only one able to make a nice pass to anyone in front of the net or a quick one to the sniper. It was easier for other team to then put a guy on him than opening the box to have one on Souray.
Some team keep a goon as a 13th player....or a 7th defenceman....since Montreal did not have a proper goon since many centuries (when the last guy to reach enough fight in a season is Steph Quintal...you know what I mean....)....they should have done that....Souray is not «average» defensivly....he is VERY BAD
By the way, regarding the stats last 2 years, the Habs were more in trouble when Markov was out. On a 5-5 play, he is much better to get the puck out of the defense zone and on powerplay, him and Kovalev are the only ones who passed the puck well to Souray, Ryder or Koivu. Without a nice and quick pass, a sniper is nothing...so is Souray.
On the powerplay, the other teams could have stop the Habs' «Souray» powerplay system easily, but they couldnt because they had to check Kovalev. For those who complain about him, he is still the most dangerous one one powerplay to make your system work. He is the only one able to make a nice pass to anyone in front of the net or a quick one to the sniper. It was easier for other team to then put a guy on him than opening the box to have one on Souray.
Koivu
Ziggy, say what you want about Koivu being over-rated and overpaid but at the least the guy gives everything he has. If other players on the team had done the same last year, cough...Kovalev, Samsonov...cough, the Habs might have made a run in the playoffs. There seems to be little pride in wearing the sweater anymore and players are more interested in how much money they can get than actually winning anything. But I guess that's the same in any sport today.
Techman
Ziggy, say what you want about Koivu being over-rated and overpaid but at the least the guy gives everything he has. If other players on the team had done the same last year, cough...Kovalev, Samsonov...cough, the Habs might have made a run in the playoffs. There seems to be little pride in wearing the sweater anymore and players are more interested in how much money they can get than actually winning anything. But I guess that's the same in any sport today.
Techman
