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Hamas & Israel

CaptRenault

CaptRenault

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snakejack said:
3) Tell me why it is a good thing for the jewish people to have a state but not the Palestinian people. Do you oppose the creation of a palestinian state as the UN suggested ?

4) What do you think of the UN resolutions on the subject of a peace treaty / ceasefire / ?
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3) The Palestinians and their Arab allies have missed numerous chances to establish a state for the Palestinians. Arab countries, with the full support of the Palestinian people, went to war against Israel three times (1948, 1967 and 1973) in an attempt to eliminate it and they lost all three times. After those wars, Israel was ready to allow the establishment of a Palestinian state but the Palestinians demonstrated that they preferred leaders who would wage war against Israel, Jews and the West. Israel made important concessions such as evacuating Gaza in 2005. What they got in return was daily rocket attacks for years and then the massacre of October 7. Now a majority of Israelis no longer support the idea of a state for the Palestinians under any circumstances and I don't blame them.

4) I don't respect anything the UN says about Israel. It criticizes Israel far more than any other country despite the terrible human rights records of many other countries. It's solely up to Israel and Hamas to negotiate a settlement to the war. Hamas wants to keep fighting, so Israel fights back. It has no choice against an enemy like Hamas that is dedicated to the annihilation of Israel.

www.samharris.org

Sam Harris | 5 Myths about Israel and the War in Gaza

Transcript of podcast episode #351
www.samharris.org www.samharris.org

...the intentions of Hamas, as declared in their founding charter, and as they have reiterated numerous times since October 7th, are explicit: They aspire to commit an actual genocide. This is something they proudly claim to want to do. And the worst part is that they don’t ultimately care about their own survival. Members of Hamas, like jihadists everywhere, routinely chant, “We love death more than the Jews, or the infidels, or the Americans, love life.” While this might sound like posturing, and it may be posturing for any specific person who lacks real faith, in general, it is an honest expression of their religious worldview. They are a death cult. And Hamas is a death cult that happens to be very popular among Palestinians. Even though Hamas has engineered a situation in which to fight them effectively requires that Palestinian civilians also die.
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snakejack

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CaptRenault said:
3) The Palestinians and their Arab allies have missed numerous chances to establish a state for the Palestinians. Arab countries, with the full support of the Palestinian people, went to war against Israel three times (1948, 1967 and 1973) in an attempt to eliminate it and they lost all three times. After those wars, Israel was ready to allow the establishment of a Palestinian state but the Palestinians demonstrated that they preferred leaders who would wage war against Israel, Jews and the West. Israel made important concessions such as evacuating Gaza in 2005. What they got in return was daily rocket attacks for years and then the massacre of October 7. Now a majority of Israelis no longer support the idea of a state for the Palestinians under any circumstances and I don't blame them.

4) I don't respect anything the UN says about Israel. It criticizes Israel far more than any other country despite the terrible human rights records of many other countries. It's solely up to Israel and Hamas to negotiate a settlement to the war. Hamas wants to keep fighting, so Israel fights back. It has no choice against an enemy like Hamas that is dedicated to the annihilation of Israel.

www.samharris.org

Sam Harris | 5 Myths about Israel and the War in Gaza

Transcript of podcast episode #351
www.samharris.org www.samharris.org
Click to expand...
How about giving back the stolen land after having concluded the hamas eradication ?

In the past all arab states rejected wrongly Israel. This is the past.

Now they are establishing diplomatic ties and commercial partnerships.

Isn’t about time that israel change too?

Do you approve the right of the palestinian peeople to have a country ?

If you reject all UN resolutions regarding the conflict, you agree with me that ee should also reject all UN resolutions regarding what we call pariah states? Including North Korea, Iran and so on.

1) do you support the illegal settlements ?

2) Are you aware that the arab states lime Bahrein, UAE, Morocco etc normalized their diplomatic ties with Israel ? And that Saudi Arabia is in the process ?
 
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snakejack

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CaptRenault said:
3) The Palestinians and their Arab allies have missed numerous chances to establish a state for the Palestinians. Arab countries, with the full support of the Palestinian people, went to war against Israel three times (1948, 1967 and 1973) in an attempt to eliminate it and they lost all three times. After those wars, Israel was ready to allow the establishment of a Palestinian state but the Palestinians demonstrated that they preferred leaders who would wage war against Israel, Jews and the West. Israel made important concessions such as evacuating Gaza in 2005. What they got in return was daily rocket attacks for years and then the massacre of October 7. Now a majority of Israelis no longer support the idea of a state for the Palestinians under any circumstances and I don't blame them.

4) I don't respect anything the UN says about Israel. It criticizes Israel far more than any other country despite the terrible human rights records of many other countries. It's solely up to Israel and Hamas to negotiate a settlement to the war. Hamas wants to keep fighting, so Israel fights back. It has no choice against an enemy like Hamas that is dedicated to the annihilation of Israel.

www.samharris.org

Sam Harris | 5 Myths about Israel and the War in Gaza

Transcript of podcast episode #351
www.samharris.org www.samharris.org
Click to expand...
 
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snakejack

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poupsy

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snakejack said:
And don’t start the antisemitism shit. I am not antisemit. I am bringing my point of view.

Now please can you do a follow up on this :

Now one more time:

1) do you support the illegal settlements ?

2) Are you aware that the arab states lime Bahrein, UAE, Morocco etc normalized their diplomatic ties with Israel ? And that Saudi Arabia is in the process ?

3) Tell me why it is a good thing for the jewish people to have a state but not the Palestinian people. Do you oppose the creation of a palestinian state as the UN suggested ?

4) What do you think of the UN resolutions on the subject of a peace treaty / ceasefire / ?

A Christian just waiting for you answers in order to better understand you point of view.
Click to expand...
Let’s say that the premises of non recognizing the UN partition plan in 1947 and being obsessed with that idea of eradicating Israel from the very beginning should be pit in the equation
Let’s recognize that this obsession has generated many offensive wars that were lost by arabs
Let’s admit that when you declare war and you loose you loose land
Let’s realize that Israel has historically given land for peace (Egypt-Jordan)
Let’s admit that Many offers for Palestinians state have been simply rejected by them
Don’t firget Israel gave All Gaza back for free … and don’t give me the bull shit open air prison.
They received billion in aid and used it to teach hate to their children, build tunnels and rockets and put the rest in their own pockets living the life in quatar with private jeta and high end escorts.
Admit that hamas and other Palestinian group don’t want peace with Israel and will never recognise it

Maybe if they start but changing their river to the sea mantra they could have a state
 
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EagerBeaver

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poupsy said:
Let’s say that the premises of non recognizing the UN partition plan in 1947 and being obsessed with that idea of eradicating Israel from the very beginning should be pit in the equation
Let’s recognize that this obsession has generated many offensive wars that were lost by arabs
Let’s admit that when you declare war and you loose you loose land
Let’s realize that Israel has historically given land for peace (Egypt-Jordan)
Let’s admit that Many offers for Palestinians state have been simply rejected by them
Don’t firget Israel gave All Gaza back for free … and don’t give me the bull shit open air prison.
They received billion in aid and used it to teach hate to their children, build tunnels and rockets and put the rest in their own pockets living the life in quatar with private jeta and high end escorts.
Admit that hamas and other Palestinian group don’t want peace with Israel and will never recognise it

Maybe if they start but changing their river to the sea mantra they could have a state
Click to expand...
Bingo Bingo Bingo!
 
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Fradi

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EagerBeaver said:
Bingo Bingo Bingo!
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This is never going to end and both sides know it.
After decades of killing and murdering each other nobody is going to shake hands and make up.
The Arab terrorist organizations want to eradicate Israel and they will never stop and the Israeli government is not much better.
There is no real answer to this and probably never will be.

If I had to pick who I would walk the streets beside as a Christian, I would be far safer in Israel than in any Arab country.
I have been to Israel a few times in the past on business, never felt safe at all and the hatred on both sides was so obvious there will never be peace in this part of the world, the hatred the mistrust the thirst for vengeance is too deep rooted and ingrained on both sides.
 
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snakejack

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poupsy said:
Let’s say that the premises of non recognizing the UN partition plan in 1947 and being obsessed with that idea of eradicating Israel from the very beginning should be pit in the equation
Let’s recognize that this obsession has generated many offensive wars that were lost by arabs
Let’s admit that when you declare war and you loose you loose land
Let’s realize that Israel has historically given land for peace (Egypt-Jordan)
Let’s admit that Many offers for Palestinians state have been simply rejected by them
Don’t firget Israel gave All Gaza back for free … and don’t give me the bull shit open air prison.
They received billion in aid and used it to teach hate to their children, build tunnels and rockets and put the rest in their own pockets living the life in quatar with private jeta and high end escorts.
Admit that hamas and other Palestinian group don’t want peace with Israel and will never recognise it

Maybe if they start but changing their river to the sea mantra they could have a state
Click to expand...
Let’s recognize that the arab states didn’t want Israel to become a reality 1900-1970

Let’s recognize that the arab state changed since then

Let’s recognize that Gaza wasn’t legally part of Israel and giving it back was the thing to do

Let’s recognize that the arab states are establishing diplomatic ties with Israel

Let’s recognize that in 2024 the war must end and a palestinian state must be created ASAP in order to prevent future wars

Let’s recognize that if Israel doesn’t recognize the UN resolutions, well Iran is then justified not to recognize UN resolutions with all the potential consequences

Let’s recognize that illegal settlements are to be demolished
 
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snakejack

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poupsy said:
Let’s say that the premises of non recognizing the UN partition plan in 1947 and being obsessed with that idea of eradicating Israel from the very beginning should be pit in the equation
Let’s recognize that this obsession has generated many offensive wars that were lost by arabs
Let’s admit that when you declare war and you loose you loose land
Let’s realize that Israel has historically given land for peace (Egypt-Jordan)
Let’s admit that Many offers for Palestinians state have been simply rejected by them
Don’t firget Israel gave All Gaza back for free … and don’t give me the bull shit open air prison.
They received billion in aid and used it to teach hate to their children, build tunnels and rockets and put the rest in their own pockets living the life in quatar with private jeta and high end escorts.
Admit that hamas and other Palestinian group don’t want peace with Israel and will never recognise it

Maybe if they start but changing their river to the sea mantra they could have a state
Click to expand...
Did you read this ?

www.thetimes.com

Gun in hand, the Israeli settler tells the Palestinian: I will kill you

Palestinians in the West Bank say they are being driven from their homes by a campaign of terror waged by armed civilians determined to take their land
www.thetimes.com www.thetimes.com
 
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snakejack

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Nov 9, 2023
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poupsy said:
Let’s say that the premises of non recognizing the UN partition plan in 1947 and being obsessed with that idea of eradicating Israel from the very beginning should be pit in the equation
Let’s recognize that this obsession has generated many offensive wars that were lost by arabs
Let’s admit that when you declare war and you loose you loose land
Let’s realize that Israel has historically given land for peace (Egypt-Jordan)
Let’s admit that Many offers for Palestinians state have been simply rejected by them
Don’t firget Israel gave All Gaza back for free … and don’t give me the bull shit open air prison.
They received billion in aid and used it to teach hate to their children, build tunnels and rockets and put the rest in their own pockets living the life in quatar with private jeta and high end escorts.
Admit that hamas and other Palestinian group don’t want peace with Israel and will never recognise it

Maybe if they start but changing their river to the sea mantra they could have a state
Click to expand...
I order to better understand your point of view i have some question…

1) do you support the illegal settlements ?

2) Are you aware that the arab states lime Bahrein, UAE, Morocco etc normalized their diplomatic ties with Israel ? And that Saudi Arabia is in the process ?

3) Tell me why it is a good thing for the jewish people to have a state but not the Palestinian people. Do you oppose the creation of a palestinian state as the UN suggested ?

4) What do you think of the UN resolutions on the subject of a peace treaty / ceasefire / ?
 
minutemenX

minutemenX

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snakejack said:
I order to better understand your point of view i have some question…

1) do you support the illegal settlements ?

2) Are you aware that the arab states lime Bahrein, UAE, Morocco etc normalized their diplomatic ties with Israel ? And that Saudi Arabia is in the process ?

3) Tell me why it is a good thing for the jewish people to have a state but not the Palestinian people. Do you oppose the creation of a palestinian state as the UN suggested ?

4) What do you think of the UN resolutions on the subject of a peace treaty / ceasefire / ?
Click to expand...

Because Israel does not have with Palestinians a real peace partner. Even “moderate” Palestinian Authority is maintaining two-tire policy declaring mostly in English its willingness to attain separate state existing side by side with Israel while teaching in schools and in local propaganda in Arabic that it will be just a temporal solution, and the end goal is to eliminate the sate of Israel that has no rights to exist on Palestinian land. All Palestinian administrations always supported terrorism against Israel and its citizens covertly or openly. The truth is that the so-called Palestinian “resistant” movement now is nothing more than a business enterprise for Palestinian elites and they want to perpetuate it as long as possible. The solution to this impasse lies in the reformation of the Palestinian narrative as well as its administration and elite. They should embark on the road of economic and cultural development rejecting all terrorism and violence and explaining to their populous Israel's right to exist. On this path they will become a real peace partner, and the statehood will follow.
 
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EagerBeaver

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minutemenX said:
The truth is that the so-called Palestinian “resistant” movement now is nothing more than a business enterprise for Palestinian elites and they want to perpetuate it as long as possible.
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A lot of people do not understand that Mahmoud Abbas is worth $100 million while his people eat sand. And he has absolutely no shame in it. It's part of a Kleptocracy that the Palestinian leadership lives in that profits off "resistance". Abbas is a huge steaming piece of shit.
www.thetower.org

Terrorists & Kleptocrats: How Corruption is Eating the Palestinians Alive - The Tower

In a startling and exclusive first-hand account, AARON MENENBERG exposes how the Palestinian Authority systematically prevents Palestinian entrepreneurs, farmers, and investors from improving their lives.
www.thetower.org www.thetower.org

Loading…

www.mideastjournal.org
 
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fin

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EagerBeaver said:
A lot of people do not understand that Mahmoud Abbas is worth $100 million while his people eat sand. And he has absolutely no shame in it. It's part of a Kleptocracy that the Palestinian leadership lives in that profits off "resistance". Abbas is a huge steaming piece of shit.
www.thetower.org

Terrorists & Kleptocrats: How Corruption is Eating the Palestinians Alive - The Tower

In a startling and exclusive first-hand account, AARON MENENBERG exposes how the Palestinian Authority systematically prevents Palestinian entrepreneurs, farmers, and investors from improving their lives.
www.thetower.org www.thetower.org

Loading…

www.mideastjournal.org
Click to expand...
So, Abbas is a piece of shit and therefore genocide is ok. Bravo!
 
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minutemenX

minutemenX

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fin said:
So, Abbas is a piece of shit and therefore genocide is ok. Bravo!
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There is 2.1 M people in Gaza. About at least a quoter, i.e. 0.5M are men of the fighting age. By Hamas own admission at least 50,000 of these men were active members of Hamas and were trained soldiers. Israel claims that it has eliminated about 50% of the Hamas fighting force, i.e. around 25,000. Palestinians estimated that there are about 41,000 total casualties in Gaza (they do not discriminate between military and civilians) which comes to about 16,000 of civilian casualties. It is the lowest ratio of the civilian to military casualties in the history of the modern warfare, and you call it a genocide? In Iraq it was 3 to 1. It is a war that Hamas started and if you know how to wage a war in the very densely populated area and avoid civilian casualties you are welcome to share your ideas. Hamas did not care about own civilians and uses civilians as human shields. Do Russians commit genocide in Ukraine? They deliberately and openly bomb now civilian infrastructure. Why we do not see any demonstration against Russia's war in Ukraine in university campuses ?
 
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