Is LFK or DFK are that importants?!?

[hormone]

The widest market segment is the GFE clientele and these are precisely the ones agencies like Eleganza are targeting.

With all due respect to justagirl, Eleganza Babe and the other members of the coalition for non-kissing sexworkers, non-GFE sp's would need to be very special in some kind of way for them to be competitive within the GFE marketplace.

Indies, on the other hand, might not be all that concerned competitiveness; they have the privilege of picking their clients within a market segment they're comfortable with.

No convinced though that agency girls enjoy that same privilege. My sense is the agency SP's who don't meet the standards are either "drilled" or removed.

You are probably right on this one. Maybe then I could succeed in finally booking some of the way-too-busy ladies form Eleganza...

But again, I wonder if a "super hot" eleganza babe who does not kiss but does all the rest she does would not be booked as often, if she were open with her kissing restriction. Again, an answer to the questions about other "invasive" services and their provision under the "kissing is too intimate act" would help us understand better.

Advert: "I may not FK you ... but I'll f**k your brains out !"

 

[hormone]

I know it is hard to understand. Did you read about some s contest in high school, not even sure if it is not elementary school? Young SPs were raised by MTV videos where they see it is cool to be a ``ho`` for their pimp. Rap culture is quite specific. I even witnessed contest between many girlfriends of the same boyfriend (pimp).

This is not only in the SP culture, it is for a whole age group I believe. Being in my early-mid 30`s, I have dated girls who are in their early 20s as well as in their 30`s and there is a clear difference in their respective attitude to sexual acts. BJTC, CIMWS, even greek are all seen as almost normal for many girls in their early 20`s. Hell, I even knew a girl who thought it was almost wrong for me to do anything else than CIM, WS usually!
(why did we break up.... )

 

[Miss Maria]

They are

The question: Is LFK or DFK that important

Amswer: For Me, they are essential for a great encounter!

I feel that passion communicates through the kisses. Kisses are what builds up the intensity and pleasure of an encounter.

I refuse to see men who do not want to kiss because it makes me feel like I should be mechanical and that I am just there to spread my legs. I do not want that. I want to have a connection with the men I meet. I want to truely enjoy every moment of it. And I DO!!!

I love this buisness and it gives me sooo much pleasure. Sure, not all men look drop dead gorgeous, but almost everyone has a charm and sex appeal. And a good kisser doesn't have to look good, he can transport me into a world of delight with his lips against mine. Actually it is surprising how many of you are not super beautiful but become beautiful to my eyes because of your sweet nature and the way you treat me. Everyone has some attraction. The only times, I have felt repulsed by men in this buisness was when they acted like assholes. It is weird how this makes the eye see the person in a totally different way.

Eleganza babe, do not let anyone tell you how to act in this buisness. You should always do what you enjoy and what fulfills you with happiness. What I have said above are my thoughts on the issue and my oppinion only. If you feel uncomfortable offering a service, simply don't offer it or else it will make you unhappy. Maybe you should rethink if this is the right buisness for you. If you have more negative things to say about it then positives, no money in the world can bring you joy. You are the only one in charge of your life.

On this, I wish everyone a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Maria
XXXXX

 

[hormone]

Nice to hear from another lady

The question: Is LFK or DFK that important

Amswer: For Me, they are essential for a great encounter!

I feel that passion communicates through the kisses. Kisses are what builds up the intensity and pleasure of an encounter.

I refuse to see men who do not want to kiss because it makes me feel like I should be mechanical and that I am just there to spread my legs. I do not want that. I want to have a connection with the men I meet. I want to truely enjoy every moment of it. And I DO!!!

I love this buisness and it gives me sooo much pleasure. Sure, not all men look drop dead gorgeous, but almost everyone has a charm and sex appeal.

Maria
XXXXX

Thank you Maria for your contribution. I think it reflects well also that as there are different hobbyists with varied interests, there is also a wide range of ladies with differing points of views. It may also explain the reason why some ladies go independant, have longer careers in this domain, etc. This is a difference also between an indy where you are always a little more free to chose your clients, have had preliminary contact with him, compared to an agency where you go where told...

 

[Special K]

Hello LeGuy,

Yes, I understood the very, very intimate qualities of kissing long before this thread. Given that kissing may be the most intimate act in the evolution of human sexuality I still don't see why such invasive acts that risk serious and even deadly disease are so standard and why kissing is so difficult by comparison. Let's see...extremely intimate kissing versus being used like a receptacle and/or the risk of dangerous disease. Are we saying the better choice is the riskier/more dangerous behavior rather than intimacy???

Intimacy...oooooooh YUK!

korbel

Jesus Korbel...c'mon, get it through your head already. It's her PREROGATIVE, nothing more than that, if it's something she finds the most intimate of intimate acts and doesn't enjoy doing it with strangers then so be it, leave it alone!

 

[korbel]

Jesus Korbel...c'mon, get it through your head already. It's her PREROGATIVE, nothing more than that, if it's something she finds the most intimate of intimate acts and doesn't enjoy doing it with strangers then so be it, leave it alone!

Hello Special K,

Yeah, I know. I just find the comparitive preference amazing.

there's a left by Martinez...OHHHHH, Zimmer is down!

Korbel

PS

"Jesus" is really not my first name. It's Hetepsekhemwy or Hotepsekhemwy if you please.

 

[z/m(Ret)]

Ziggy, I am neither shy nor submissive. I make it known when i am not comfortable with or enjoying something. However, as most of the men in this conversation regarding GFE demonstrate, they feel entitled to do what they want. Usually my discomfort is met with pressure, physical and verbal.

Sounds like rape to me. Care to explain then why you wouldn't just quit the business? I mean is it worth being pressured physically and verbally, as you explained it? I have no doubt that you're worth more than being pushed around by some dumbfuck clients in hotel rooms.

And as for advertising as GFE, i think that practice has stemmed from pressure from hobbiests.

A bit of history. Back in the late 80's early 90's in Montreal, the standard outcall service included CBJ and covered FS. LFK and Daty were somewhat a rarity, let alone DFK. An agency's success correlated strongly by its ability to feature the best looking girls. As a person who resorted to escorts back then, YMMV service wasn't a problem given that I couldn't really expect more.

One agency changed all that. It was known as Les Filles de M. Jacques. The featured girls were not as glamorous, more like the girl-next-door type, but provided a service that would raise the standards for good.

The agency owner knew what he was doing. By bringing in girls that couldn't compete with the others in terms of looks but would perform services that not many SP's were ready to deliver, he rapidly created a new market which his agency dominated until the competition was brought up to speed.

When I look back, it was Jacques himself who stimulated the demand for GFE and, in the later stages, his competition followed.

I think most agencie owners are well aware that is impossible for women to provide identical service to all men regardless of circumstance, chemistry, and many other variables.
People are YMMV regardless of profession. If you go to a restaurant sit down and start shouting out your order the waitress is likely to give you different service than if you sit down and wait for her to come over and take your order. Yes, it is her job to take your order and she should preform that duty the same regardless of your demeanour, but in reality that just isn't possible.
It seems in some regards you would like the girl to be mechanical, have no feelings regarding what makes her comfortable or uncomfortable, providing identical service regardless of situation. While on the other hand you also require that she be passionate, sensual, cuddly, gfe. I'm not sure that combination is a very reasonable expectation to have.

I certainly won't dispute that. Some of the mileage is gained or lost depending on chemistry, circumstances and other variables, as you said.

But let's face it, agencies which reputations are built around a standard service are not interested in keeping girls who can't/won't meet their standards, or am I wrong?

And as for why is kissing so difficult - i don't think it's something that can be explained to someone who hasn't done this line of work. Something about face to face contact is very intimate. It just feels uncomfortable. Sorry i don't have a better explination for you.

Kissing is no less intimate than giving head therefore you owe me no explanation. That's the way it works for you, so be it.

 

[z/m(Ret)]

Ziggy,


I like your expression "drilled". You pointed the GFE services are the most lucrative part of the business. I sometimes model SPs as SMB(small to medium business). Maybe some SPs are pressured to make more money and as you know there are many incentives to make money ...

It's all about economic presure, friend, and just about everyone is interchangeable (with the exception of Samy ). Where the cash flows that's where the SP's better be, willing and ready for action, if they wish grab the most they can.

That's how agency owners think. If I were one, if I had to wear the cap, I would be no better because this sort of mindset is an essential prerequisite.

 

[Miss Maria]

To me, the important thing is respecting ones self. Always doing something which we enjoy. Life becomes much more fulfilling when we do so.

Maria
XXXXX

 

[z/m(Ret)]

I think you're being overly nieve if you think dealing with 'dumbfuck clients' who TRY to push us around is not part of the job. I didn't say that I give into the pressure, as stated in my earlier posts, I close my mouth so dfk is impossible and on more than one occasion have walked out on sessions where the client continued to pressure me. However, I am sure many women do give in, particularly the younger ones. At 18 how assertive were you?

I've been insulted, banned from the boards, excommunicated from the community... it's the first time I've been called naive...Thanks, that was quite refreshing!

Seriously, I had already understood that you don't give into pressure and I'm well aware that many women, especially the less experienced ones, give in. There was a whole thread on the subject, that ran for months where I expressed positions similar o yours.

Only thing though is how much of the job hardship can one take before blowing a gasket and eventually slamming the door? You seem to say that pressure-type clients are legion therefore I was wondering if the return is worth the aggravation.

Perhaps you are correct about where GFE started, however I think it's incorrect to imply that hobbiests have nothing to do with it. This board is just one example of the means hobbiest use to compare and put pressure on sp's and agencies to provide as many acronyms as possible. Women who are more liberal receive praise, while those who choose not to partake in certain activities are slammed on a public forum.

I didn't imply that clients are not contributing to escalate the level of service. The old adage says it takes two to tango which surely applies here.

 

[korbel]

Perhaps you are correct about where GFE started, however I think it's incorrect to imply that hobbiests have nothing to do with it. This board is just one example of the means hobbiest use to compare and put pressure on sp's and agencies to provide as many acronyms as possible. Women who are more liberal receive praise, while those who choose not to partake in certain activities are slammed on a public forum.

Hello justagirl,

Supply and demand. Hobbyists want all they can get. SPs and agencies want to make money. It's a mutually propelled evolution into a "GFE" dominated industry. Clients, agencies, and ladies: all directing the flow of cash by their choices. Each element helps create the situation.

Only thing though is how much of the job hardship can one take before blowing a gasket and eventually slamming the door? You seem to say that pressure-type clients are legion therefore I was wondering if the return is worth the aggravation.

Good point Mr. Montana.

Korbel

 

[Miss Maria]

What about wanting SEX and AFFECTION and meeting people from everywhere who we can learn so many things from...??

Getting paid to have pleasure is the best thing in the world!

Kiss Me Kiss Me NOW!!

Maria
XXXXX

 

[z/m(Ret)]

To me, the important thing is respecting ones self. Always doing something which we enjoy. Life becomes much more fulfilling when we do so.

Maria
XXXXX

... and, logically, never do something which we don't enjoy. What if, for instance, that something that is not being enjoyed is kissing and that the "we" happens to be an escort working for a GFE agency.

Do you believe the said GFE agency would keep the said escort aboard, why and under which specific conditions?

You have agency experience, what are your thoughts?

 

[Miss Maria]

Ziggy, my thoughts are that each have to make their own decisions in life and live with the consequences of it. I choose to live my life honestly with myself like that I can be happy every moment of it. I have no right to dictate to someone what to choose in their lives but hope no one will force themselves to be in a situation they despise or feel uncomfortable with. To me, it shows a great lack of character and self respect.

I became an indie because I like things to be done my way. And my way is way over the deffinition of GFE.

I hope this answers your questions.

Maria
XXX

ps. Ziggy: best kisser EVER!!!

 

[Miss Maria]

I just

I just found this quote:

"Pleasure is the only thing to live for. Nothing ages like happiness."
-Oscar Wilde

Okay I am in a mushie gushie lovey mood today... must be the new year..

Maria
XXXXX

 

[Canadian Joe 652]

Lets play: Be the ass wipe!

Starting: Me!

1. As some of you have stated I do not force nor have I asked someone to leave because she did not perform a particular act during the meeting, still it pisses me off to no end that we have to play this ridiculous game over and over again!

Just Tell Me The F%$#*! truth!!! as I book you and you can be sure not to be required to perform any acts you consider to be beneath you.

2. So you do not like Mutants! WHO THE HELL DOES?????? Now:

• Either the average Joe out in the street is consider a mutant in your book or
• The average hobbist in MTL is a troll!!!

I will be selfish and choose option 1 to begin:

Which leads me to: Girl find a new vocation cause it ain"t going to get any better and you are obviously in need of something else

But even if you where to choose option 2, on behalf of us Trolls, find another vocation cause ............ (see above )

But finally, here is the kicker for me. A service is provided that I require (SP), in this case the intimate companionship of a lady. I must do everything in my power to respect her and make her feel comfortable as she is going to share with me some moments (hopefully they are not as traumatic to her as they seem to be for you) that should if nothing else be pleasing.

I will do my best to behave as a gentlemen, take care of my higyne, improve my Troll apperance and provide for an ambiance that is conducive to the girl being comfortable.

Yet, AM PAYING FOR THIS! It is my money going out of my pocket, shouldn't I have the rigth to expectations? to service? to respect?

It blows my mind that although it is my hard earned money going out of my pocket, I still somehow am to feel uncomfortable or guilty for the pressures this profession puts on young ladies like you.

Heck! QUIT!!!!!!! If they have you prisonner in some dungeon and do not let you out, post! will go get ya!

And for the last time: If anyone does not want to do anything during a session and you are open and honest about it, from the start, 99.9% of all the hobbists in this site will respect and honor your wishes.

The problem is that although you can not concive kissing us trolls of the world, you will still work at Eleganza, still be announced as a GFE and still be cheating unexpected shumcks out of what they thought they were getting!

Even more importantly, you will still take the money (cause it is all about the money rigth?) you made and buy yourself something nice, probably from a good looking store and a good looking salesperson, I just hope they do not tell you as you are comming in that the 2 X 1 specials are YMMV and that the 50% discount only applies to people that the cashier likes!


Good Lord I am an ass but it feels good!


CJ

 

[hobby11]

the bottom lines

i know this biz long enough to say:
1- gfe is not a montreal thing , its everywhere...look on the web and the definition of gfe is much more liberal elsewhere.GFE montreal standard is still dfk+daty+ and please understand the client is not looking for a girlfriend here...maybe we have to stop using the gf reference.

2- dfk is a must unless the sp is really a talented coutesan (1% of all sp)than
she compensates with other stuff...but this is rare...so if the sp is really exceptional (beauty and charm) she will end up being a hdh , dictating her own rules

3- if an sp is advertized gfe and doesnt deliver the goods, her agency and her P.i.m.p. will educate her , she will quit or change for another agency ( lowering the profile...)

hope this helps...

 

[z/m(Ret)]

(...) please understand the client is not looking for a girlfriend here...

hobby11, I just can't see how we could have done it without you. Here, to show my appreciation, have this rock.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5361/captainobviousjr5.jpg

 

[montreal_monk01]

Eleganza Babe,
Wow your thread came with a lot of interesting reactions. A lot.
You've now got lots of reading to do...with that load of reactions, my dear ;p
We can't wait for your reaction to all of this (truely a great discussion, eventhough it's
one that has merely already been discussed before)

I just found this quote:

"Pleasure is the only thing to live for. Nothing ages like happiness."
-Oscar Wilde

Okay I am in a mushie gushie lovey mood today... must be the new year..

Maria
XXXXX

Ah...Oscar Wilde, my all time favourite author!!!
Maria, I am falling for you my dear!

 

[cpp433]

?

i'm not into dfk or daty anyways,, so it doesnt matter to me,, but..

people saying you should not do what you dont want to do is true and false,, it is your job,, we ALL have to do shit we dont want to at work,, but its required so we do it,, most jobs you even have to do EXTRA work and extra things you dont want to to get by,, but if there is something you really dont want to,, find another job,, as has been stated many times on this thread,, for one simple reason,, its life

so the main question was is it important?,, to me no,, but to many of the men on here that spend thier hard earned money (mostly earned by doing things they dont really want to do!),, and call a GFE agency,, that IS what they should get,, IT IS IMPORTANT to them and the agencys reputation

if doing this with most men you meet at work isnt what you want to do , leave,, ive left many a job for that reason!