Lets hear it for the OLF

[Elvis]

New Town.......isnt that an English name and they never had a problem.......that's right its owned by P'tit Jacques so it's OK.......What a city.....Montreal as much as I love all the beautiful women here......the opposite is so true for the politics............. HAVE A NICE DAY

Que de mauvaise foi dans ce message....

Les noms corporatifs n'ont jamais posé aucun problème. T'as qu'à te promener un peu et tu vas le constater: Second Cup, Canadian Tire, Best Buy, Future Shop, Newtown, Wal-Mart, Ikea, etc.etc.... C'est pas ça qui manque.

Elvis

 

[Questions-girl]

. Je trouve cela vraiment désolant que tu nous compares à une république de bananes d'Afrique du Sud.

Aïe!
La référence à une autre nation ou à un groupe des gens par cette terminologie est très impolie.

Je suis désolé. Mais, j'ai quitté cette discussion.

 

[wolfman]

Elvis

Que de mauvaise foi dans ce message....

Les noms corporatifs n'ont jamais posé aucun problème. T'as qu'à te promener un peu et tu vas le constater: Second Cup, Canadian Tire, Best Buy, Future Shop, Newtown, Wal-Mart, Ikea, etc.etc.... C'est pas ça qui manque.

Elvis

mauvise foi......oui.......comme tu veut......tu vois moi je m'en fous pas mal je parle les deux, je lis les deux et j'ecris les deux en plus d'une 3ieme langue.......les problemes c que les noms corporatifs ont ete attaquer au debut.....Havery's et Mcdonald's on ete obliger a enlever les "s". La ca passe sinon les grosses compangie vont aller ailleurs........

 

[Elvis]

mauvise foi......oui.......comme tu veut......tu vois moi je m'en fous pas mal je parle les deux, je lis les deux et j'ecris les deux en plus d'une 3ieme langue.......les problemes c que les noms corporatifs ont ete attaquer au debut.....Havery's et Mcdonald's on ete obliger a enlever les "s". La ca passe sinon les grosses compangie vont aller ailleurs........

Salut Wolfman,

Effectivement, t'as raison, le gouvernement avait tenté, dans le temps, de remettre en question la langue des noms corporatifs mais ils ont fini par comprendre leur erreur et ils ont reculé sur ce point. Les McDonald's et autres Harvey's ont retrouvé leur 's!

D'après moi, les grosses compagnies viennent ici pour le potentiel de fric à faire, pas pour nos beaux yeux. Les grosses compagnies canadiennes anglaises qui avaient à partir (CP et autres SunLife), l'ont déjà fait. À ce niveau-là, le "mal" est déjà fait.

Bonne journée!

Elvis

 

[Techman]

Actually, internationally registered trademarked names such as Second Cup and Wal Mart are exempt from Bill 101. There is also an international agreement with auto makers that accepts english labeling. But I am not joking about the airconditioner labels in Richmond. It is one of the things, along with the fax machine labels, that they were cited for. If you go back to one of my earlier posts there is a link to the original story in the Gazette that mentions both. That is what got me started on this thread. I can understand the fax labeling causing a problem for some people, even in the language you understand the more complex machines can be confusing. But the air conditioner? That's going a bit over board.

Her is the link again incase som missed the story http://www.canada.com/montreal/mont....html?id=9db93996-ec57-448a-a894-7ef3210a5d1a

 

[Elvis]

Actually, internationally registered trademarked names such as Second Cup and Wal Mart are exempt from Bill 101. There is also an international agreement with auto makers that accepts english labeling. But I am not joking about the airconditioner labels in Richmond. It is one of the things, along with the fax machine labels, that they were cited for. If you go back to one of my earlier posts there is a link to the original story in the Gazette that mentions both. That is what got me started on this thread. I can understand the fax labeling causing a problem for some people, even in the language you understand the more complex machines can be confusing. But the air conditioner? That's going a bit over board.

Salut Techman,

Il y a quand même quelque chose qui ne fonctionne pas dans ton affaire... ou bien alors nous ne parlons pas de la même chose.

Les écritures sur un fax, tout comme sur 80%-90% des appareils électroniques (DVD, etc.) vendus sur le marché, sont essentiellement en anglais. L'appareil est manufacturé et vendu avec les touches "Power", "on", "off" etc. etc. en anglais et cela ne peut pas être changé. L'étiquetage sur la boîte de même que les manuels d'instruction doivent être bilingues, au minimum. Il y a des claviers d'ordi, par contre, disponibles en français. Pour ce qui est des fax et des DVD et autres gugusses du même genre, je n'en ai jamais vu en français de ma vie.

En outre, même si l'OLF exige un étiquetage en français, cela n'empêche pas à l'anglais d'être présent. Si tu te respectes comme francophone Techman, c'est bien le moins d'exiger que les produits vendus ici respectent la langue des gens d'ici, en autant que faire se peut.

Cette histoire-là me semble être encore une autre affaire montée en épingle et caricaturée par The Gazette, un journal très impartial...Ou bien ils font de l'humour... un humour que j'ai de la difficulté à saisir....

Elvis

 

[Techman]

Elvis

I am a computer technician and we sell all kinds of office equipement. All the fax machines and the majority of printers come with both english and french control panel overlays. Those with digital displays can be set to read in the language of your choice. As far as power buttons are concerned they are all marked with the international symbols of 0/1 for off and on. All manuals are at the very least bilingual and more often multilingual. As I have said before, the problem I have is not with the survival of the french language but with the exclusion of all languages other than french. Why is it that bilingual is not enough? Why is it that things have to be FRENCH ONLY? Has our society become so paranoid, so insecure that we have to eliminate english to feel safe? That is like one drowning man climbing on the shoulders of another to try to reach the surface. The only way to ensure the survival of any culture or language is to teach it proudly to our children without bias or prejudice towards others. If we cannot do this then I am sorry to say that our culture doesn't deserve to survive. And for the people who keep bringing up the way the French were treated in the past...get over it. It's a new millenium and it's time to start living in it. Together.

 

[CaptainPicard]

Agree to disagree

This thread is going no where. Same old same old, even with the facts laid out. So why not agree to disagree because resistance is futile, dixit Startrek.
Captain out!

 

[Elvis]

... It's a new millenium and it's time to start living in it. Together.

Nicely said!
Let's conclude this thread on this positive thought!

Elvis

 

[Techman]

Do you also tell the Jewish community, to forget about ''Adolph'' and stop referring to the past.
Dont think so.

I just can't let that one slide. Please do not compare anything French Canadians have gone through to the Holocaust. There is nothing that happened here that can be compared to the loss of even one Jewish life in a concentration camp.

 

[Lawless]

I believe we have to stop it here, this thread might be heading for a disaster.

 

[eastender]

Lessons of History

During the time of colonization - England,France,
and Spain habitually sent or invited their undesirables
(criminal element,the non-productive,religiously
or politically incorrect)out of the home country to
populate the colonies resulting in present day North
America and Australia/New Zealand.About 25 years
ago Cuba/Castro used a variation of this method to
ship Cubans to the USA

Effectively this is how Quebec was populated,both
England and France contributed.

Unfortunately this practice was repeated in the NEW
WORLD - the example you cite and the case of the
United Empire Loyalists after the American Revolution
are just two instances.This is how things were done
and the overall results have come out okay if we look
at present day North America and Australia/New Zealand.

To the displaced it does not matter who asks or why
they are asked to leave - please do not pretend that
the greater fault was committed by the British when they
asked the French to leave New Brunswick,after all France
did not want them in the first place while Canada
accepted them both times.

 

[EagerBeaver]

More History Lessons

Eastender,

The truth is that the U.S.A. was not populated with England's criminal elements as was the case with Australia which started as a penal colony of Great Britain. Rather, the U.S.A. was settled by a combination of those fleeing religious persecution (e.g. Puritans and Quakers) and those who wanted to make some better cash than what they were making in England. The religious zealots who settled this country were the permanent settlers and they were the ones who established the conservative legal and political tradition which even today influences our lives. Eastender, have you ever wondered why in the U.S.A. we have such a powerful religious right and why our laws are so much more conservative than in Canada? It's history. Our history is very different than that of Canada or Australia.

BTW, the Australians have done pretty well for themselves since that original band of criminals got settled there. I recently read a study that showed that Australians have now surpassed the U.S.A. and Japan as the hardest working people in the world. I don't know where Canada is on that list but it's not in the top 3 - which is Australia, U.S.A and Japan in that order. I think the study was based on average weekly working hours.

 

[eastender]

Revisionist History

If we factor out the pirates and slave traders who
made their base in the U.S.A.and various
other rogues who made their way over before or
after being convicted in Britain you might have
a point based on degree since Australia was
almost exclusively penal.

The religious right basically is the result of the
separation of church and state in the American
Constitution.Wishing to avoid the same situation
that arose with the Church of England in Great
Britain the founding fathers adopted policies
that allowed a lot more religious freedom and
diversity.The net result is a much greater
religious spectrum and a wider definition of
what constitutes a religion or a church.

Since the United States politically is effectively
a two party system at the federal,state,county,
municipal levels the people tend to look to
a church when they do not have political clout.
Example - the civil rights movement in the south.

Not sure what your point is about conservative
laws.The laws in the U.S.A tend to be at the
forefront of civil liberties.After the Magna Carta,
most of the the key reforms in judicial history
have been American - full gamut of civil rights,
Miranda,sec legislation/banking,fetal rights,
right to unionize,work safety,anti trust,child
welfare and protection, etc.
Probably forgot some important ones - so be it.
All enacted to counter injustice.

The major difference is that in the United States
law enforcement is taken seriously.Bounce a
check across state lines and it becomes a federal
crime and the post office will investigate
regardless of the amount.In Canada bounce
a check across provincial lines and the attitude
at the post office or the RCMP is so what.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Not sure what your point is about conservative
laws.The laws in the U.S.A tend to be at the
forefront of civil liberties.After the Magna Carta,
most of the the key reforms in judicial history
have been American - full gamut of civil rights,
Miranda,sec legislation/banking,fetal rights,
right to unionize,work safety,anti trust,child
welfare and protection, etc.
Probably forgot some important ones - so be it.
All enacted to counter injustice.

I am not talking about civil rights. Is outcall escorting legal in the U.S.A. outside of Nevada? That is the only question that is relevant here. The next question is why is that so.

Our criminal law is far more conservative and stringent than in Canada. There is no comparison. And all of it is rooted in the Puritan traditions.

I don't completely agree with your statement about the religious right arising out of the separation of Church and State. That's part of it, and part of it is also the historical legacy which is imbued in our laws. I should know because I work with them every day of my life.

 

[eastender]

Legalize Outcalls?????

EB,
Why would outcall escorts support legalization???????
Little or no demand from those most directly concerned.

Rates/earnings would go down drastically,the talent
pool would increase,your activity/trade would leave
a permanent gov't record.Followed by goverment
intervention,standards,the girls would not be able to
pick and choose,etc.Eventually a bright spark would
invent a meter,so indeed YMMV.

Why don't drug dealers support legalization?
Did the mob clamor for the end of prohibition?
Basic business - never give up your piece of the
action?

Not puritanism but basic self-interest.Just as you
want to pay the least,the SP wants to earn the most.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Eastender,

There is a difference between legalization and decriminalization which has been discussed over and over again on this Board and is way beyond the scope of my last post. I did not post anything to warrant resurrecting that significantly rehashed topic. I merely pointed out that outcall escorting is not legal in the USA and in Canada it's effectively legal without being legalized. And there is one reason for the difference: the Puritans.

 

[Techman]

The comment, was made in order to point out that no nation cant forget about their past.

BTW, of course it was more than 150 years ago, but the ''ethnic cleansing'' before it's time, or if you prefer...the mass deportation of all french canadians from New Brunswick was surely a sign of ''Love'' from the British towards French Canadians.

Like the Jewish people, i adopt the phrase ''Never again'':

- mass deportation
- Martial Law (first & second world war and 1970)
- assimilation (like it is quitely done today, in english Canada)
- will we content ourself to be ''porteurs d'eau'' or ''white niggers''

And how do i dare, adopt this phrase?
Simply, because my late father was in a German work camp for 2.5 years as ''forced labor''. in Poland during WW II.

So please, let this be my last intervention.
Much prefer, taking care of Mr.Happy

Miko

I didn't say that the past should be forgotten. Just the opposite, it should be remembered and learned from, not used as an excuse for revenge.

I would hardly call the deportation from New Brunswick "ethnic cleansing", they were deported, not killed. And at the time they were French settlers, not Canadians, as the country did not exist 150 years ago.

As far as the war measures act and martial law are concerned, if a world war is not adequate reason what is? Nuclear anihilation? In 1970, in case you forgot, the war measures act was invoked at the request if not outright demand of the Premier of Quebec, Robert Bourassa, who you seem to enjoy quoting, and the Mayor of Montreal Jean Drapeau. And what led to this you might ask? A number of bombings, two kidnappings, and many threats and demands made by a French Separatist Terrorist group called the FLQ.
Try looking at the cause before complaining about the effect.

The 1995 referendum results are of no value. From the meaningless trick question to wholesale voter fraud due to the number of rejected ballots it is hardly a valid arguement to use.

Quiet assimilation in English Canada? I don't know of any laws forcing immigrants to give up their culture or forcing them to speak english. Immigrants come to Canada because they want to, no one is forcing them to.

And now, probably due to the sponsorship scandal which is basically a bunch of Quebec companies who ripped off a stupidly naive federal gov't, we can't even get 24 thousand dollars of funding for Canada Day celebrations. Even the large corporations in Quebec, such as Bombardier, who never refuse millions in federal funding will not offer 1 cent in sponsor money. They should be ashamed.

 

[miko]

Tecman

The 1995 referendum results are of no value. From the meaningless trick question to wholesale voter fraud due to the number of rejected ballots it is hardly a valid arguement to use.

Since you are weak on facts:
Referendum results:
- 1980 3865806 citizens voted rejected ballots: 65012 = 1.68% of votes
- 1995 4758509 citizens voted rejected ballots: 86501 = 1.82% of votes
Yep, you are right! I smell massive voter fraud here.

Let's compare this results with the 1992 Charlettown referendum, organized by Ottawa. Rejected ballots (in Quebec) = 87432....

It seems, there is a certain number of citizens that just scratch their votes in order to prevent somebody else to vote for them.

Miko

 

[anon_vlad]

Miko, your argument proves the opposite to what it appears you intended. It is clear that something is amiss when less than 2% of ballots were rejected in Quebec as a whole, but in some polls in predominantly non-Francophone areas, the percentage of rejected ballots was as high as 11%. In addition, it is impossible to estimate the number of elderly or allophone voters who left due to harassment by the government appointed scrutineers.

In fairness, the federalist side also cheated by fast-tracking citizenships.